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How do I get 4000+ calories?

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Replies

  • sardelsa
    sardelsa Posts: 9,826 Member
    adpschoon wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    adpschoon wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    adpschoon wrote: »
    So there's no way of gaining without adding fat? Seems kind of depressing

    You can reduce the amount of fat gain by starting off fairly lean, keeping your surplus smaller and training effectively. However if you are always chasing abs during a bulk it will really limit your progress. I find it best to embrace some loss of definition. Muscle gain is hard, for many fat loss after is the easy part.

    Yeah I think the best way for me (and others in my position) is to add weight as fast as possible (large calories surplus and many unsaturated fats) and then after reaching desired weight: eat less calories that you burn on a day to lose the fat that came with the muscles. Correct me if I'm wrong, but having more fat increases your muscle growth as well, right?
    Is this the best way to go about it for me?

    I wouldn't do that either. Too fast is a recipe for very little muscle gain and lots of fat gain which is not great or productive. And no the higher you are in bodyfat the less optimal muscle gain becomes. That is why people don't bulk indefinitely, they run cuts in between to lean out again.

    You want to find the sweet spot. Stay relatively lean but gain at a consistent and comfortable rate. I would say anywhere from 0.5-1lb per week.

    God, why is trying to gain weight while staying lean so goddamn vague :D
    I'll just ask a fitness instructor tomorrow what I should do, because I just need a solid plan of action

    It's really quite simple. You won't be able to keep your well defined chiseled 6-pack through your whole bulk, if you are chasing after that then you really won't gain as successfully as you could. I'm not saying you can't stay lean and see abs but you will lose definition and best to accept that vs trying to find a holy grail of some sort!
  • erickirb
    erickirb Posts: 12,273 Member
    edited April 2019
    adpschoon wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    adpschoon wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    adpschoon wrote: »
    So there's no way of gaining without adding fat? Seems kind of depressing

    You can reduce the amount of fat gain by starting off fairly lean, keeping your surplus smaller and training effectively. However if you are always chasing abs during a bulk it will really limit your progress. I find it best to embrace some loss of definition. Muscle gain is hard, for many fat loss after is the easy part.

    Yeah I think the best way for me (and others in my position) is to add weight as fast as possible (large calories surplus and many unsaturated fats) and then after reaching desired weight: eat less calories that you burn on a day to lose the fat that came with the muscles. Correct me if I'm wrong, but having more fat increases your muscle growth as well, right?
    Is this the best way to go about it for me?

    I wouldn't do that either. Too fast is a recipe for very little muscle gain and lots of fat gain which is not great or productive. And no the higher you are in bodyfat the less optimal muscle gain becomes. That is why people don't bulk indefinitely, they run cuts in between to lean out again.

    You want to find the sweet spot. Stay relatively lean but gain at a consistent and comfortable rate. I would say anywhere from 0.5-1lb per week.

    God, why is trying to gain weight while staying lean so goddamn vague :D
    I'll just ask a fitness instructor tomorrow what I should do, because I just need a solid plan of action

    Gaining and losing comes down to the caloric deficit/surplus, keep in mind that trainers are not experts in diet, even if they try to come off as one!

    It isn't that difficult, and adherence is the most important and is what most people struggle with.

    All you need to do is follow a well-structured program that is geared towards your goals, eat at a small surplus (set a goal here to gain 0.5 or 1 lb/week), get adequate fat and protein, and plenty of carbs, and stick with it!
  • sardelsa
    sardelsa Posts: 9,826 Member
    If you want more information in bulking and have time there is a great podcast you can find it on YouTube. "Massing Roundtable" by Revive Stronger featuring Mike Israetel and Eric Helms. Very informative.
  • dozenmonkeyz
    dozenmonkeyz Posts: 150 Member
    adpschoon wrote: »

    God, why is trying to gain weight while staying lean so goddamn vague :D
    I'll just ask a fitness instructor tomorrow what I should do, because I just need a solid plan of action

    If it was easy, none of us would be here working this hard to figure out our own best ways. It takes TIME and CONSISTENCY more than anything else. Any trainer can give you a plan that works, but, generally we want the plan that works most efficiently for our individual needs. Dialing that in is the ultimate challenge and often changes as we progress. Don't get caught up in thinking ANY program will transform you in a short time unless you're already starting from an ideal position. Keep moving forward and keep your goals forefront in your mind and you'll see progress.
  • adpschoon
    adpschoon Posts: 20 Member
    Alright thank you guys for all the info and help, I'm going to try the bulk/cut method, but that means going to the gym anyways, so my main focus is going to be there. :smiley:
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,741 Member
    adpschoon wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    adpschoon wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    adpschoon wrote: »
    So there's no way of gaining without adding fat? Seems kind of depressing

    You can reduce the amount of fat gain by starting off fairly lean, keeping your surplus smaller and training effectively. However if you are always chasing abs during a bulk it will really limit your progress. I find it best to embrace some loss of definition. Muscle gain is hard, for many fat loss after is the easy part.

    Yeah I think the best way for me (and others in my position) is to add weight as fast as possible (large calories surplus and many unsaturated fats) and then after reaching desired weight: eat less calories that you burn on a day to lose the fat that came with the muscles. Correct me if I'm wrong, but having more fat increases your muscle growth as well, right?
    Is this the best way to go about it for me?

    I wouldn't do that either. Too fast is a recipe for very little muscle gain and lots of fat gain which is not great or productive. And no the higher you are in bodyfat the less optimal muscle gain becomes. That is why people don't bulk indefinitely, they run cuts in between to lean out again.

    You want to find the sweet spot. Stay relatively lean but gain at a consistent and comfortable rate. I would say anywhere from 0.5-1lb per week.

    God, why is trying to gain weight while staying lean so goddamn vague :D
    I'll just ask a fitness instructor tomorrow what I should do, because I just need a solid plan of action

    You'll get better information if you listen to the people on here who have done much bulking/cutting etc.
  • erickirb
    erickirb Posts: 12,273 Member
  • deannalfisher
    deannalfisher Posts: 5,601 Member
    edited April 2019
    obviously i don't eat 4000cal a day - but i could easily do it if i wanted with minimal effort - grains (rice, pasta, farro) are goign to be a bang for your buck on calories that are lower fat

    while my macros wouldn't work for you - IF i were to increase to 4000cal i would probably do:
    carbs - 600g carbs - 2400cal
    fat - 98g fat - 882cal
    protein - 180g (but this is variable depending on your goal) - 720cal (this protein rec would give you 1.07g/1lb total body weight)

    that would give you a macro break down of 60% carb/18% protein/22% fat - but you could easily tweak your fat/protein ratios - depending on your goal weight
  • jdog022
    jdog022 Posts: 695 Member
    aegean2 wrote: »
    I'm just worried that I'm getting too many fats in if I want to reach my calories goal of 4000. In the end I want to add weight in form of muscle, not fat. You think that's an issue or that I should not worry about that and eat stuff like chorizo, ice cream with nutella, crisps?

    Well, fat doesn't convert to fat, so the composition of your caloric intake would not make a difference if you burn it all. The food that your body WILL convert to fat, if you eat too many calories are the carbs. So whether you pack on the muscle or the fat depends on your carb and protein intake and your exercise. The fat can only be converted to energy to fuel your body, so if you eat too much of that, and do not burn the calories, your body will metabolize the carbs to storage (body fat). You do need protein and carbs to build muscle, but you do not want to overdo it, as carbs metabolize fast, and unless you burn all the calories as fast as you eat them, they will get stored. Your body will use fats and proteins first to fuel, as it cannot store them, and if you eat more than it can burn, it will store all the available carbs

    Such nonsense here. Ignore this one
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 9,187 Member
    edited April 2019
    I guess the post about fat not being stored as fat but just the evil carbs has already been debunked! Woohoo!

    To the OP: you have a major problem with the way you define what you're trying to do.

    You are NOT TRYING TO GAIN WEIGHT.
    You are trying to build muscles.
    The two are not the same and you won't magically build muscles by gaining weight (except for a tiny incidental amount to support your new bulkier built which is most certainly not your goal)

    You build muscles by abusing your existing ones to the point where they try to get some help in self defense. And you support the muscle building by providing enough nutrients and ENERGY for the synthesis to happen optimally.

    So this means you need energy for a good workout, and energy for a good recovery.

    This energy availability tends to happen best and most consistently when you're in a caloric surplus.

    A caloric surplus tends to have the side effect of weight gain.

    Weight gain proves that you are in a caloric surplus--which is why people aim for it--but it doesn't *prove* whether you're building muscle or not.

    Chances are that if you're providing the correct stimulus you are building muscle. But chances are that the faster the weight gain the more of it will end up as fat energy reserves as opposed to new muscles!

    You are NOT trying to maximize your weight gain. Gaining FAST will not accomplish your goals. Gaining is a side effect, not your actual goal.

    [technically and assuming you had sufficient energy stores and provided sufficient stimulus you could increase muscle mass and use energy from your fat reserves to fuel that increase in muscle mass--accomplishing this slower than if you had provided ample energy reserves. The name for this amazing concept nowadays is "recomp". In the past it was usually called "getting in shape"]