Intense workouts to outrun the fork
Replies
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pierinifitness wrote: »I remember when I tore my ACL in a sports injury almost 15 years ago. I was top fit and weigh-appropriate at the time, training hard and eating big.
My first feeling and thought was the excruciating pain. I knew I had a serious injury. My second thought was that I was going to have down time, surgery and rehab so my training was going to be reduced and I had better immediately start eating less.
Funny how about 3 years ago I wasn’t observant enough to catch my reduced activity and start eating less. Consequently, 8 months ago I had to “report” to a self-exiled boot camp, with me as my drill sergeant, to get my fat boy self back where I belong.
Never again!
For balance: Weight management doesn't have to be about extremes, deprivation or boot-camp drill sergeant discipline. For those that are new to the community in general or weight loss in particular, please don't feel that you are doomed to failure if this member's standards or methods don't match yours.
Tl;dr? Weight loss doesn't have to be punitive to be effective.18 -
Outside of elite athletes, it is close to impossible for the average person to "outrun the fork" completely, as it's a lot easier to eat 1000s of calories over maintenance than it is to burn that much regularly from exercise.
That being said, exercise can certainly help with weight loss, and heavy exercise allows for a lot more eating in your diet. I eat at about what would be maintenance if I didn't exercise, but I workout hard 5-6 times a week and lose about a pound a week. That allows me about 500 calories more a day, which means more pizza, burgers, and other things that would be harder to fit in if I didn't workout at all.
So there still needs to be some sort of intake control, but heavy exercise can certainly allow you to eat more.3 -
In the short term, sure. In my experience I'd end up with an over-use injury of some kind before too long.0
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NorthCascades wrote: »Easy peasy. Thru-hike the PCT. I guarantee you'll lose more than 20 pounds no matter what or how much you eat. You'll be walking about 30 tough miles a day, and you'll have the opportunity to buy food every week or so. Having to carry everything you'll eat cuts down on your weight in a big way.
Not necessarily. My husband and I did several thruhikes - AT, PCT, CDT. My husband lost significant weight on each hike (40-50 pounds). I was lucky if I lost 5. We ate the same, exercised the same, but he lost weight much faster because he had more weight to lose. I was better at finding a CICO balance. We would stuff ourselves in town, and that was enough for me.
To answer the OP - I maintain my weight largely with my running and walking. I walk 2-3 miles a day, run 5 miles a day on average (35 mpw). That gives me enough extra calories I can eat what I want, within reason.2 -
I have heard forever you “can’t outrun the fork”
However... I know there are a few people that DO!
So those that either have maintained or some how lost weight- while still splurging on weekends- can you tell me your general caloric intake and what you did to offset weekend splurges?
I’m talking like a night out with pizza and 1-2 beers. 1-2 x a week or even at home but like a home made pot pie with dessert lol.
I don’t want to hear from those that say it’s not possible. I know it’s RARE but I am curious how MUCH exercise is needed. And if any people do intense workouts that don’t include actual running too....
I've been maintaining a large weight loss for 6 years now. Exercise has never been a factor in my weight management plan, I control my weight 100% by how many calories I eat.
I ate out 4 times this weekend, on top of eating at a family members house. I stayed completely on plan because I pre-planned what I was going to eat and I fit everything it into my goals. Exercise wise-I took a walk on Friday and Saturday, nothing on Sunday. MapMyWalk estimated that my two walks burned around 275 calories, so a pretty minimal impact on my calorie allowance.
My maintenance calorie range is around 1,600 and my net carb target is 50g-75g (these are the only two things I pay attention to). Current stats-female/4o yrs old/BMI 21.0
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This is a bit trickier than it looks at first glance. A number of years ago I was cycling and running a lot and could eat whatever I wanted - and did. I lost weight and became quite fit. I didn't eat trash, I just ate as much as I wanted - that's what I would say was "outrunning the fork".
But then I stopped exercising and I didn't know how to eat at a reduced level and I gained 80 pounds over a few years...
Now I'm back to my former levels of exercise. Saturday I had a long ride that burned an extra 2800 calories above my NEAT, so my allowance was around 4600 calories. On days when I don't exercise maintenance is around 2100 calories. Now I try to eat according to my activity. Some days I "borrow" against others, but here's the point - it's still about calorie balance - and unless you log both activity and meals you're guessing. That works for some but it doesn't work for me.4 -
If you want to lose weight all you need is a calorie deficit. If you want to exercise more to eat more, go for it. All you need is ACCURATE logging of calorie intake, and burn, making sure you are at a total calorie deficit. How you get to a calorie deficit is your choice.2
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An ACL injury in college was the first time in my life I became overweight, for similar reasons. The downside with using exercise to maintain a calorie balance is that you can’t always exercise!pierinifitness wrote: »I remember when I tore my ACL in a sports injury almost 15 years ago. I was top fit and weigh-appropriate at the time, training hard and eating big.
My first feeling and thought was the excruciating pain. I knew I had a serious injury. My second thought was that I was going to have down time, surgery and rehab so my training was going to be reduced and I had better immediately start eating less.
Funny how about 3 years ago I wasn’t observant enough to catch my reduced activity and start eating less. Consequently, 8 months ago I had to “report” to a self-exiled boot camp, with me as my drill sergeant, to get my fat boy self back where I belong.
Never again!
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I think to answer your question, you would have to know what you are eating.
two slices of pizza is 500 calories, 2 beers are 300 Calories
That's a total of 800 calories.
For the week after or the week before eat 100 calories less and work out 100 calories more0 -
Of course it is possible. This is why those involved in active sports generally maintain their weight, but also why so many gain weight after leaving sports. The issue comes from sustainability. You have to think long term and develop habits on when you will be unable to work out at this level.
Using the financial analogy it isn't about how much you make, but how much you spend. If you outspend your income then it doesn't matter how much you make. Just as in weight management if you burn 1000 calories through exercise/activity on top of your BMR of ~2000, but eat 4000 calories you are still in a state of surplus.2 -
I burn quite a few calories each week in exercise. Yesterday my calorie burn was over 1,700 (hiking over 13 miles, with mountain inclines, wearing a pack). I can afford to have high calorie meals during the week, and I do. But the majority of my calories come from vegetables, fruit and grains. I could definitely fit in a couple nights of pizza and beer if I wanted.
Like others said, finding the balance is key. Even with my high activity, I couldn't eat high calorie burgers and pizza every night and still lose weight, unless I switched to omad and then it probably would work. It's about the balance.2 -
[quote="Danp;c-43689775"So, how long (time wise) was that 950cal ride? [/quote]
Is was two rides, about 70 minutes total. I wanted a little more when I got home. Here's a picture from the first.
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Is it possible to outrun the fork? Sure.
Can you, Joe Average with an office job and 20 extra pounds around the middle, do it without giving yourself an overuse injury? Probably not. You don't have the fitness level required to expend that kind of energy for that long.
Generally speaking, the only people who can have pizza-and-beer blowouts once or twice a week and still stay lean are athletes. Usually young male athletes. If you were an athlete, you would have a performance-based nutrition plan, and rules of thumb that are meant to help ordinary sedentary people lose weight would not apply to you.
TL;DR: If you're on MFP asking if it's possible to outrun the fork, you are not fit or active enough to outrun the fork.9 -
Oh and in addition, burning 100,000cal per year is equivalent of approx 2000cals per week which is easily achievable.
In order to exercise your way out of a 500cal/d surplus and achieve a 1lb per week loss would require burning 364,000 calories per year. 3.5x the activity you're currently undertaking.
#perspective
I only mentioned cycling, because I can measure the calories I burn cycling with a maximum of 5% error. I spend the winter skiing cross country. I hike a lot. Don't worry about me not getting enough activity. I do it because it's fun and rewarding, see the picture above. It's like that song by The Cults, I Really Wanna be Outside.
#perspective5 -
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People training for something eat more to fuel increases in fitness.4
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NorthCascades wrote: »Oh and in addition, burning 100,000cal per year is equivalent of approx 2000cals per week which is easily achievable.
In order to exercise your way out of a 500cal/d surplus and achieve a 1lb per week loss would require burning 364,000 calories per year. 3.5x the activity you're currently undertaking.
#perspective
I only mentioned cycling, because I can measure the calories I burn cycling with a maximum of 5% error. I spend the winter skiing cross country. I hike a lot. Don't worry about me not getting enough activity. I do it because it's fun and rewarding, see the picture above. It's like that song by The Cults, I Really Wanna be Outside.
#perspective
Firstly, my comments weren't specifically directed at you or the way you're doing things. Just speaking to the general idea of being able to out exercise the extra calories that would constitute a diet which had caused weight gain.
Secondly, I am ABSOLUTELY green with envy. That vista is simply stunning and while cycling around the beaches of southern Sydney isn't bad by any stretch its not a patch on that. Just WOW!2 -
NorthCascades wrote: »Oh and in addition, burning 100,000cal per year is equivalent of approx 2000cals per week which is easily achievable.
In order to exercise your way out of a 500cal/d surplus and achieve a 1lb per week loss would require burning 364,000 calories per year. 3.5x the activity you're currently undertaking.
#perspective
I only mentioned cycling, because I can measure the calories I burn cycling with a maximum of 5% error. I spend the winter skiing cross country. I hike a lot. Don't worry about me not getting enough activity. I do it because it's fun and rewarding, see the picture above. It's like that song by The Cults, I Really Wanna be Outside.
#perspective
Firstly, my comments weren't specifically directed at you or the way you're doing things. Just speaking to the general idea of being able to out exercise the extra calories that would constitute a diet which had caused weight gain.
Secondly, I am ABSOLUTELY green with envy. That vista is simply stunning and while cycling around the beaches of southern Sydney isn't bad by any stretch its not a patch on that. Just WOW!
If you're ever in the Pacific Northwest, drop me a line, we'll go hiking.
That road took almost 100 years to build. When the highway workers who spent their lives speeding gravel arrived near where that photo was shot, they said "this place is so beautiful, we need a poet" and put the highway project on hold until a suitable poet could be found. True story.5 -
While I was losing weight I kept my indulgences to a minimum, but if I had a special event I would do my best to do OMAD, for me this meant over compensating with caffeinated beverages. If I did go way over I would feel less hungry the next day and eat under my calorie goal by a few hundred. My weekly calorie goal would always even out. Focusing on the weekly calories versus day to day is what works for me. Now that I am in maintenance I don't eat back my exercise calories Monday through Thursday, and Fri Sat Sun I usually go over by a few hundred. So far it's worked out for me, but I don't exercise that much. I run a mile a couple times a week, but it's mostly walking. When my weight starts to trend down I eat more.0
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I am in Indiana, and the Amish are a perfect example of people who, while not running per se, are most certainly out-pitchforking the fork. Most of them, men and women, are thin and muscular, and while you will see one or two occasionally who are pleasantly plump, they are nowhere near the grotesque levels of obesity one so commonly sees in an Indiana [or insert most states except Colorado here] Walmart.
Let me assure you, they eat all the food, and all the fat and sugar, with occasional fast food, Chinese buffet and pizza splurges, but they are mostly cooking from scratch and eating a very large amount of veg.
I got 6 hours of sustained hard core gardening--digging, flipping compost, splitting perennials, hauling crap around the yard) in on Saturday and Sunday, which pushes my calorie limit above 3000 in a cut (I am a 5'6" female working on losing 5 lbs from 150). Every May and June the weight just magically melts off *IF* I can spend an appropriate amount of time working outside and head all the time-sucks off at the pass so I can play in the dirt. But it gets back to what some of the bikers and hikers are saying on here--it needs to be long-term, sustainable, enjoyable, challenging activity that you can stick with.9 -
Just put the effin fork down. Smh.
Ummmm did you read my whole post? Lol I am talking about a once a week night out. Not binge eating or even going over calories every day. I'm still down about 40 lbs total, so I know that a calorie deficit is needed. Just trying to see what is "possible" and others experience of adding more exercise to offset a cheat night.3 -
French_Peasant wrote: »I am in Indiana, and the Amish are a perfect example of people who, while not running per se, are most certainly out-pitchforking the fork. Most of them, men and women, are thin and muscular, and while you will see one or two occasionally who are pleasantly plump, they are nowhere near the grotesque levels of obesity one so commonly sees in an Indiana [or insert most states except Colorado here] Walmart.
Let me assure you, they eat all the food, and all the fat and sugar, with occasional fast food, Chinese buffet and pizza splurges, but they are mostly cooking from scratch and eating a very large amount of veg.
I got 6 hours of sustained hard core gardening--digging, flipping compost, splitting perennials, hauling crap around the yard) in on Saturday and Sunday, which pushes my calorie limit above 3000 in a cut (I am a 5'6" female working on losing 5 lbs from 150). Every May and June the weight just magically melts off *IF* I can spend an appropriate amount of time working outside and head all the time-sucks off at the pass so I can play in the dirt. But it gets back to what some of the bikers and hikers are saying on here--it needs to be long-term, sustainable, enjoyable, challenging activity that you can stick with.
I was putting together a post on just how little activity needs to be done to sustain life today and using the Amish as a comparative lifestyle, estimating 8-10 hours of physical labor/day and 20k steps/day.
We have evolved so rapidly over that past century that it is difficult to grasp just how easy we in the Western world have it to the point we may need to deliberately insert inefficiencies into our lives.3 -
French_Peasant wrote: »I am in Indiana, and the Amish are a perfect example of people who, while not running per se, are most certainly out-pitchforking the fork. Most of them, men and women, are thin and muscular, and while you will see one or two occasionally who are pleasantly plump, they are nowhere near the grotesque levels of obesity one so commonly sees in an Indiana [or insert most states except Colorado here] Walmart.
Let me assure you, they eat all the food, and all the fat and sugar, with occasional fast food, Chinese buffet and pizza splurges, but they are mostly cooking from scratch and eating a very large amount of veg.
I got 6 hours of sustained hard core gardening--digging, flipping compost, splitting perennials, hauling crap around the yard) in on Saturday and Sunday, which pushes my calorie limit above 3000 in a cut (I am a 5'6" female working on losing 5 lbs from 150). Every May and June the weight just magically melts off *IF* I can spend an appropriate amount of time working outside and head all the time-sucks off at the pass so I can play in the dirt. But it gets back to what some of the bikers and hikers are saying on here--it needs to be long-term, sustainable, enjoyable, challenging activity that you can stick with.
I was putting together a post on just how little activity needs to be done to sustain life today and using the Amish as a comparative lifestyle, estimating 8-10 hours of physical labor/day and 20k steps/day.
We have evolved so rapidly over that past century that it is difficult to grasp just how easy we in the Western world have it to the point we may need to deliberately insert inefficiencies into our lives.
I am nothing if not the Queen of Inefficiency, considering that if I need a new scarf, step 1 is:
1) Buy a large, demanding, and high-maintenance rabbit.
Or if I want a beer:
1) Procure a hops vine.
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French_Peasant wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »I am in Indiana, and the Amish are a perfect example of people who, while not running per se, are most certainly out-pitchforking the fork. Most of them, men and women, are thin and muscular, and while you will see one or two occasionally who are pleasantly plump, they are nowhere near the grotesque levels of obesity one so commonly sees in an Indiana [or insert most states except Colorado here] Walmart.
Let me assure you, they eat all the food, and all the fat and sugar, with occasional fast food, Chinese buffet and pizza splurges, but they are mostly cooking from scratch and eating a very large amount of veg.
I got 6 hours of sustained hard core gardening--digging, flipping compost, splitting perennials, hauling crap around the yard) in on Saturday and Sunday, which pushes my calorie limit above 3000 in a cut (I am a 5'6" female working on losing 5 lbs from 150). Every May and June the weight just magically melts off *IF* I can spend an appropriate amount of time working outside and head all the time-sucks off at the pass so I can play in the dirt. But it gets back to what some of the bikers and hikers are saying on here--it needs to be long-term, sustainable, enjoyable, challenging activity that you can stick with.
I was putting together a post on just how little activity needs to be done to sustain life today and using the Amish as a comparative lifestyle, estimating 8-10 hours of physical labor/day and 20k steps/day.
We have evolved so rapidly over that past century that it is difficult to grasp just how easy we in the Western world have it to the point we may need to deliberately insert inefficiencies into our lives.
I am nothing if not the Queen of Inefficiency, considering that if I need a new scarf, step 1 is:
1) Buy a large, demanding, and high-maintenance rabbit.
Or if I want a beer:
1) Procure a hops vine.
Well yes ... life inefficiency can increase weightloss efficiency.
Take, for example, what I'm about to do ...
I've got a bunch of stuff to print.
My plan is to print the things one at a time and hike down to the photocopier and back for each one. Lots of steps!
I do something similar with laundry and housekeeping. Get up at each commercial break and do one thing. I could carry all the laundry into the dressing room in one go, but that would reduce the number of steps. Instead I spend many of my commercial breaks walking back and forth in the house ... unless, of course, I'm in a rush and need to get things done efficiently.2 -
French_Peasant wrote: »I am in Indiana, and the Amish are a perfect example of people who, while not running per se, are most certainly out-pitchforking the fork. Most of them, men and women, are thin and muscular, and while you will see one or two occasionally who are pleasantly plump, they are nowhere near the grotesque levels of obesity one so commonly sees in an Indiana [or insert most states except Colorado here] Walmart.
Let me assure you, they eat all the food, and all the fat and sugar, with occasional fast food, Chinese buffet and pizza splurges, but they are mostly cooking from scratch and eating a very large amount of veg.
I got 6 hours of sustained hard core gardening--digging, flipping compost, splitting perennials, hauling crap around the yard) in on Saturday and Sunday, which pushes my calorie limit above 3000 in a cut (I am a 5'6" female working on losing 5 lbs from 150). Every May and June the weight just magically melts off *IF* I can spend an appropriate amount of time working outside and head all the time-sucks off at the pass so I can play in the dirt. But it gets back to what some of the bikers and hikers are saying on here--it needs to be long-term, sustainable, enjoyable, challenging activity that you can stick with.
I was putting together a post on just how little activity needs to be done to sustain life today and using the Amish as a comparative lifestyle, estimating 8-10 hours of physical labor/day and 20k steps/day.
We have evolved so rapidly over that past century that it is difficult to grasp just how easy we in the Western world have it to the point we may need to deliberately insert inefficiencies into our lives.
Rules are interesting things, and exceptions too. This ∆ is right 99% of the time. Exception to prove the rule: A car gets 30 miles to the gallon, with a gallon being the energy equivalent of 36,000 calories. A road bike gets 10 to 15 miles to the taco.
(You're talking about a slightly different thing, it's more efficient for people to outsource their inefficiency, turning money into a way to avoid burning calories.)3 -
I'm still heading towards my goal weight - 22kg lost so far, another 14 or so to go. I have the occasional meals out, I still eat cake, biscuits, chocolate, ice cream etc but in moderation. I plan ahead:
- if I know I'm going to eat out/have something high in calories, I make sure I don't eat too much the days before and after.
- I offset a big chunk of the extra calories with exercise, whether time on the elliptical or walking my dogs. I find that a decent walk with my dogs (I have three), is usually good for offsetting snacks given that half an hour at a jog can burn 100-200 calories and depending on how long or far I walk - I can burn around 400 calories walking. I burn more on the elliptical
- I bank and plan ahead of time. I will check the menu before hand to figure out what I should eat within that day's calorie budget. If I'm going out, I might have a much smaller breakfast or lunch so that I can eat more at dinner.
I know this might not work for everyone but it's working for me thusfar and I find that the fitness/weight loss journey has been enjoyable rather than a chore because I am still able to eat normal food. I also still bake biscuits because I love baking. I only have a little bit of my baking and give the rest away to friends, family and colleagues but it means I can still enjoy the sweets I love albeit in moderation.2 -
When I was in high school and college, I thought I was outrunning the fork. I ate candy or ice cream for breakfast frequently. I almost always had cheese and crackers, oranges, and a HUGE portion of dry frosted mini wheats (that I always shared with my friends) for lunch, ate potato chips for snack on afternoons when I was actually home, and then whatever my mom cooked for dinner, or fast food if I was out with my friends. I played sports as well as participated in band (a lot of marching) and had aerobics videos (I loved tae-bo) I did 4-5 times a week and also went to the gym and used the cardio equipment plus did their aerobics classes. In college I didn't play sports or do band but did all the other things plus was at a walking campus so a lot more non-exercise activity than before. I thought I was out-exercising my diet but looking back, maybe not. I was young and had a higher metabolism plus I never tracked so may not have been eating as much as I thought...
Now that I'm pushing 40 and have two kids whose activities are a higher priority than mine, well you said you only wanted to hear about situations where it worked...0 -
French_Peasant wrote: »I am in Indiana, and the Amish are a perfect example of people who, while not running per se, are most certainly out-pitchforking the fork. Most of them, men and women, are thin and muscular, and while you will see one or two occasionally who are pleasantly plump, they are nowhere near the grotesque levels of obesity one so commonly sees in an Indiana [or insert most states except Colorado here] Walmart.
Let me assure you, they eat all the food, and all the fat and sugar, with occasional fast food, Chinese buffet and pizza splurges, but they are mostly cooking from scratch and eating a very large amount of veg.
I got 6 hours of sustained hard core gardening--digging, flipping compost, splitting perennials, hauling crap around the yard) in on Saturday and Sunday, which pushes my calorie limit above 3000 in a cut (I am a 5'6" female working on losing 5 lbs from 150). Every May and June the weight just magically melts off *IF* I can spend an appropriate amount of time working outside and head all the time-sucks off at the pass so I can play in the dirt. But it gets back to what some of the bikers and hikers are saying on here--it needs to be long-term, sustainable, enjoyable, challenging activity that you can stick with.
I think it's still going to vary quite a bit, from individual to individual, even in a setting like that. We spent some time in the Shipshewana area last year and one thing that stood out to me and the others in my group was how overweight so many of the Amish we were around were. Most of the women were overweight, as well as the older men. And it wasn't just 'pleasantly plump'. We ate at a cafe and there was a younger woman who was pushing morbidly obese-they had to get her a special bench at the restaurant. The children were all thin, but the adults looked similar to what I see every day around me.0 -
NorthCascades wrote: »[quote="Danp;c-43689775"So, how long (time wise) was that 950cal ride?
Is was two rides, about 70 minutes total. I wanted a little more when I got home. Here's a picture from the first.[/quote]
Stunning photograph, not just from the scenery but from the positioning of the bike relative to the background.
We now return you to the regular thread topic.0
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