The Perfect Human Diet
Replies
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Tacklewasher wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »concordancia wrote: »When humans figured out agriculture is also when they started make great strides in civilization.
And if it were not for agriculture, our species would have probably died off...
And for the good of other species I expect they would claim.
Actually it has only been about 50 years since the event of modern farming using GMO's and chemicals vs tilling.. Tractors initially just displaced draft animals. Our human diseases just ramped up there after but surely there is no cause and effect going on.
Where do you come up with this stuff?
https://youtu.be/X0C3DHp36zc 4 -
The prevailing consensus today is that we have eaten grains all along. I don't remember the exact number but archaeologists just recently found the oldest evidence of bread baking and it's well over 40,000 years old. There's a reason we have multiple genes for digesting starch and that our saliva actually starts breaking it down in our mouths. Starch and grains have been a large part of our diet throughout our history.
OK, but the timeline you're talking about is roughly one one-hundredth of that mentioned in the OP. I don't agree with the arguments cited from the documentary, but that's no reason to make irrelevant arguments.3 -
QoLmatters wrote: »In my opinion only added sugar and added salt should be listed as bad. For some people (with celiac disease) wheat is bad but for the rest of us it is fine. Different people will have good reasons for not consuming certain foods so you can't generalise and say this lot is good or bad.
I just went out and bought some salt tabs to put in my water. They're called Nuun. It's summer time, and riding a bike is sweaty work. You should see how much salt I add to my food! BP is 115/70, I'm 41 years old.12 -
QoLmatters wrote: »In my opinion only added sugar and added salt should be listed as bad. For some people (with celiac disease) wheat is bad but for the rest of us it is fine. Different people will have good reasons for not consuming certain foods so you can't generalise and say this lot is good or bad.
This is an oversimplification as well. While certain foods with these things may overall not be beneficial for most people, that's not always the case. The protein bars I eat at breakfast have a good amount of added sugar. It's what makes them taste editable. But they also have a good macro mix, vitamins and minerals, and fiber. They help keep me filled in the morning with bit many calories. They are positive for me, even with added sugar. Another example is sports drinks. I don't normally drink sports drinks as part of my daily routine, but during a hike or other long exercise, the added sugar (as well as added salt) in sports drinks are very beneficial to me.
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Tacklewasher wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »concordancia wrote: »When humans figured out agriculture is also when they started make great strides in civilization.
And if it were not for agriculture, our species would have probably died off...
And for the good of other species I expect they would claim.
Actually it has only been about 50 years since the event of modern farming using GMO's and chemicals vs tilling.. Tractors initially just displaced draft animals. Our human diseases just ramped up there after but surely there is no cause and effect going on.
Where do you come up with this stuff?
I started driving a tractor 63 years ago then a few years later was following a mule in the tobacco patch so just came from on the job training. I was 23 when Roundup came on the market and took shower in it when trying to unclog spray nozzles on the fly. Plot your diabetes numbers starting 50 years ago and note the trend line. I was at ground zero of modern farming practices. If one looks at long term history we know advanced human races tend to become extinct so with our lower life expectancy trend current in place we may be doing ourselves in as well.22 -
NorthCascades wrote: »QoLmatters wrote: »In my opinion only added sugar and added salt should be listed as bad. For some people (with celiac disease) wheat is bad but for the rest of us it is fine. Different people will have good reasons for not consuming certain foods so you can't generalise and say this lot is good or bad.
I just went out and bought some salt tabs to put in my water. They're called Nuun. It's summer time, and riding a bike is sweaty work. You should see how much salt I add to my food! BP is 115/70, I'm 41 years old.
I have high blood pressure and aim to eat less than 2000mg a day of sodium which is higher than the Australian Heart Foundation recommends. https://www.heartfoundation.org.au/healthy-eating/food-and-nutrition/salt/sodium-and-salt-converter
I admit I add 1/2 tsp of sugar to my tea which makes my doctor upset because she worries about diabetes which I'm glad to say I don't have.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »concordancia wrote: »When humans figured out agriculture is also when they started make great strides in civilization.
And if it were not for agriculture, our species would have probably died off...
And for the good of other species I expect they would claim.
Actually it has only been about 50 years since the event of modern farming using GMO's and chemicals vs tilling.. Tractors initially just displaced draft animals. Our human diseases just ramped up there after but surely there is no cause and effect going on.
Where do you come up with this stuff?
I started driving a tractor 63 years ago then a few years later was following a mule in the tobacco patch so just came from on the job training. I was 23 when Roundup came on the market and took shower in it when trying to unclog spray nozzles on the fly. Plot your diabetes numbers starting 50 years ago and note the trend line. I was at ground zero of modern farming practices. If one looks at long term history we know advanced human races tend to become extinct so with our lower life expectancy trend current in place we may be doing ourselves in as well.
What ‘lower life expectancy trend’? And where do you get the idea that human diseases have ‘ramped up’? This is the exact opposite of the facts.14 -
QoLmatters wrote: »In my opinion only added sugar and added salt should be listed as bad. For some people (with celiac disease) wheat is bad but for the rest of us it is fine. Different people will have good reasons for not consuming certain foods so you can't generalise and say this lot is good or bad.
Even that isn't black or white. We're evolutionally driven to seek salt and sugar (among other tastes) for a reason, because it meant important nutrients and better functions. Getting enough salt is important for electrolyte balance, and getting enough sugar optimizes energy synthesis.
Like with everything, it's not the consumption, but the overconsumption. Even if you get enough through food and don't need added salt (like you do when you have low blood pressure, it's hot, or you're eating low carb) or don't need added sugar (like you do when you need glycogen or need to increase your blood sugar quickly), making things taste good is a benefit we can't ignore because enjoying life is good for health. Reducing chronic stress has many positive health benefits, and introducing more of it unnecessarily in forms of unnecessary restrictions and fear is not exactly a good thing. It's all about balance in all things.5 -
It seems evolution forces can impact the human diet.
Is eating behavior manipulated by the gastrointestinal microbiota? Evolutionary pressures and potential mechanisms
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4270213/
"Conclusions
Modern biology suggests that our bodies are composed of a diversity of organisms competing for nutritional resources. Evolutionary conflict between the host and microbiota may lead to cravings and cognitive conflict with regard to food choice. Exerting self-control over eating choices may be partly a matter of suppressing microbial signals that originate in the gut. Acquired tastes may be due to the acquisition of microbes that benefit from those foods. Our review suggests that one way to change eating behavior is by intervening in our microbiota....."16 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »concordancia wrote: »When humans figured out agriculture is also when they started make great strides in civilization.
And if it were not for agriculture, our species would have probably died off...
And for the good of other species I expect they would claim.
Actually it has only been about 50 years since the event of modern farming using GMO's and chemicals vs tilling.. Tractors initially just displaced draft animals. Our human diseases just ramped up there after but surely there is no cause and effect going on.
Where do you come up with this stuff?
I started driving a tractor 63 years ago then a few years later was following a mule in the tobacco patch so just came from on the job training. I was 23 when Roundup came on the market and took shower in it when trying to unclog spray nozzles on the fly. Plot your diabetes numbers starting 50 years ago and note the trend line. I was at ground zero of modern farming practices. If one looks at long term history we know advanced human races tend to become extinct so with our lower life expectancy trend current in place we may be doing ourselves in as well.
What ‘lower life expectancy trend’? And where do you get the idea that human diseases have ‘ramped up’? This is the exact opposite of the facts.
From healthcare news.
American life expectancy has dropped again. Here’s why
https://pbs.org/newshour/health/american-life-expectancy-has-dropped-again-heres-why
U.S. life expectancy declines again, a dismal trend not seen since World War I
https://washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/us-life-expectancy-declines-again-a-dismal-trend-not-seen-since-world-war-i/2018/11/28/ae58bc8c-f28c-11e8-bc79-68604ed88993_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8cf6a3ea056b
Rates of new diagnosed cases of type 1 and type 2 diabetes on the rise among children, teens
https://nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/rates-new-diagnosed-cases-type-1-type-2-diabetes-rise-among-children-teens
Chronic diseases and conditions are on the rise
https://pwc.com/gx/en/industries/healthcare/emerging-trends-pwc-healthcare/chronic-diseases.html
........The middle class is growing; and with urbanisation accelerating, people are adopting a more sedentary lifestyle. This is pushing obesity rates and cases of diseases such as diabetes upward. According to the World Health Organization, chronic disease prevalence is expected to rise by 57% by the year 2020......
16 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »concordancia wrote: »When humans figured out agriculture is also when they started make great strides in civilization.
And if it were not for agriculture, our species would have probably died off...
And for the good of other species I expect they would claim.
Actually it has only been about 50 years since the event of modern farming using GMO's and chemicals vs tilling.. Tractors initially just displaced draft animals. Our human diseases just ramped up there after but surely there is no cause and effect going on.
Where do you come up with this stuff?
I started driving a tractor 63 years ago then a few years later was following a mule in the tobacco patch so just came from on the job training. I was 23 when Roundup came on the market and took shower in it when trying to unclog spray nozzles on the fly. Plot your diabetes numbers starting 50 years ago and note the trend line. I was at ground zero of modern farming practices. If one looks at long term history we know advanced human races tend to become extinct so with our lower life expectancy trend current in place we may be doing ourselves in as well.
What ‘lower life expectancy trend’? And where do you get the idea that human diseases have ‘ramped up’? This is the exact opposite of the facts.
From healthcare news.
American life expectancy has dropped again. Here’s why
https://pbs.org/newshour/health/american-life-expectancy-has-dropped-again-heres-why
U.S. life expectancy declines again, a dismal trend not seen since World War I
https://washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/us-life-expectancy-declines-again-a-dismal-trend-not-seen-since-world-war-i/2018/11/28/ae58bc8c-f28c-11e8-bc79-68604ed88993_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8cf6a3ea056b
Rates of new diagnosed cases of type 1 and type 2 diabetes on the rise among children, teens
https://nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/rates-new-diagnosed-cases-type-1-type-2-diabetes-rise-among-children-teens
Chronic diseases and conditions are on the rise
https://pwc.com/gx/en/industries/healthcare/emerging-trends-pwc-healthcare/chronic-diseases.html
........The middle class is growing; and with urbanisation accelerating, people are adopting a more sedentary lifestyle. This is pushing obesity rates and cases of diseases such as diabetes upward. According to the World Health Organization, chronic disease prevalence is expected to rise by 57% by the year 2020......
But your actual CLAIM was that human diseases ramped up after tractors displaced draft horses.
Not that chronic health conditions and diseases of age are on the rise now.10 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »concordancia wrote: »When humans figured out agriculture is also when they started make great strides in civilization.
And if it were not for agriculture, our species would have probably died off...
And for the good of other species I expect they would claim.
Actually it has only been about 50 years since the event of modern farming using GMO's and chemicals vs tilling.. Tractors initially just displaced draft animals. Our human diseases just ramped up there after but surely there is no cause and effect going on.
Where do you come up with this stuff?
I started driving a tractor 63 years ago then a few years later was following a mule in the tobacco patch so just came from on the job training. I was 23 when Roundup came on the market and took shower in it when trying to unclog spray nozzles on the fly. Plot your diabetes numbers starting 50 years ago and note the trend line. I was at ground zero of modern farming practices. If one looks at long term history we know advanced human races tend to become extinct so with our lower life expectancy trend current in place we may be doing ourselves in as well.
What ‘lower life expectancy trend’? And where do you get the idea that human diseases have ‘ramped up’? This is the exact opposite of the facts.
From healthcare news.
American life expectancy has dropped again. Here’s why
https://pbs.org/newshour/health/american-life-expectancy-has-dropped-again-heres-why
U.S. life expectancy declines again, a dismal trend not seen since World War I
https://washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/us-life-expectancy-declines-again-a-dismal-trend-not-seen-since-world-war-i/2018/11/28/ae58bc8c-f28c-11e8-bc79-68604ed88993_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8cf6a3ea056b
Rates of new diagnosed cases of type 1 and type 2 diabetes on the rise among children, teens
https://nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/rates-new-diagnosed-cases-type-1-type-2-diabetes-rise-among-children-teens
Chronic diseases and conditions are on the rise
https://pwc.com/gx/en/industries/healthcare/emerging-trends-pwc-healthcare/chronic-diseases.html
........The middle class is growing; and with urbanisation accelerating, people are adopting a more sedentary lifestyle. This is pushing obesity rates and cases of diseases such as diabetes upward. According to the World Health Organization, chronic disease prevalence is expected to rise by 57% by the year 2020......
But your actual CLAIM was that human diseases ramped up after tractors displaced draft horses.
Not that chronic health conditions and diseases of age are on the rise now.
IMO, we contract more disease now due to the fact that we are living longer. You live long enough chances are you’re gonna get something...7 -
An interesting tidbit for gut bacteria, since it was mentioned. The colonies that thrive now are somewhat different from what used to thrive, and food plays only a small part. Most of it is living in a different environment. If you want the "good old bacteria" abandon hygiene and live in less than sanitary conditions. There are no good or bad gut bacteria colonies, just different. There are pros and cons to every composition.
I don't know why we like to overcomplicate things. Just eat food you like, don't overeat, don't over analyze, be active, and you should be fine.9 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »concordancia wrote: »When humans figured out agriculture is also when they started make great strides in civilization.
And if it were not for agriculture, our species would have probably died off...
And for the good of other species I expect they would claim.
Actually it has only been about 50 years since the event of modern farming using GMO's and chemicals vs tilling.. Tractors initially just displaced draft animals. Our human diseases just ramped up there after but surely there is no cause and effect going on.
Where do you come up with this stuff?
I started driving a tractor 63 years ago then a few years later was following a mule in the tobacco patch so just came from on the job training. I was 23 when Roundup came on the market and took shower in it when trying to unclog spray nozzles on the fly. Plot your diabetes numbers starting 50 years ago and note the trend line. I was at ground zero of modern farming practices. If one looks at long term history we know advanced human races tend to become extinct so with our lower life expectancy trend current in place we may be doing ourselves in as well.
What ‘lower life expectancy trend’? And where do you get the idea that human diseases have ‘ramped up’? This is the exact opposite of the facts.
From healthcare news.
American life expectancy has dropped again. Here’s why
https://pbs.org/newshour/health/american-life-expectancy-has-dropped-again-heres-why
U.S. life expectancy declines again, a dismal trend not seen since World War I
https://washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/us-life-expectancy-declines-again-a-dismal-trend-not-seen-since-world-war-i/2018/11/28/ae58bc8c-f28c-11e8-bc79-68604ed88993_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8cf6a3ea056b
FTA
But Anderson said the latest data suggest this mortality trend is heavily influenced by the ongoing drug epidemic and a rising rate of suicides nationwide
Once again it becomes clear that you don't even bother reading the articles you post
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GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »concordancia wrote: »When humans figured out agriculture is also when they started make great strides in civilization.
And if it were not for agriculture, our species would have probably died off...
And for the good of other species I expect they would claim.
Actually it has only been about 50 years since the event of modern farming using GMO's and chemicals vs tilling.. Tractors initially just displaced draft animals. Our human diseases just ramped up there after but surely there is no cause and effect going on.
Where do you come up with this stuff?
I started driving a tractor 63 years ago then a few years later was following a mule in the tobacco patch so just came from on the job training. I was 23 when Roundup came on the market and took shower in it when trying to unclog spray nozzles on the fly. Plot your diabetes numbers starting 50 years ago and note the trend line. I was at ground zero of modern farming practices. If one looks at long term history we know advanced human races tend to become extinct so with our lower life expectancy trend current in place we may be doing ourselves in as well.
What ‘lower life expectancy trend’? And where do you get the idea that human diseases have ‘ramped up’? This is the exact opposite of the facts.
From healthcare news.
American life expectancy has dropped again. Here’s why
https://pbs.org/newshour/health/american-life-expectancy-has-dropped-again-heres-why
U.S. life expectancy declines again, a dismal trend not seen since World War I
https://washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/us-life-expectancy-declines-again-a-dismal-trend-not-seen-since-world-war-i/2018/11/28/ae58bc8c-f28c-11e8-bc79-68604ed88993_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8cf6a3ea056b
Rates of new diagnosed cases of type 1 and type 2 diabetes on the rise among children, teens
https://nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/rates-new-diagnosed-cases-type-1-type-2-diabetes-rise-among-children-teens
Chronic diseases and conditions are on the rise
https://pwc.com/gx/en/industries/healthcare/emerging-trends-pwc-healthcare/chronic-diseases.html
........The middle class is growing; and with urbanisation accelerating, people are adopting a more sedentary lifestyle. This is pushing obesity rates and cases of diseases such as diabetes upward. According to the World Health Organization, chronic disease prevalence is expected to rise by 57% by the year 2020......
What the article says is that life expectancy for men in the US has gone down a small amount (it's still way higher than most of human history years ago) over a period of 2 years and most importantly that it's due to a spike in drug ODs and suicide. Mainly we are talking about the opioid crisis. Nothing to do with Roundup.
Kids are getting T2D because the childhood obesity rate is up, which is depressing, but again nothing to do with Roundup. About poor diets and too many calories resulting therefrom.15 -
@GaleHawkinsGaleHawkins wrote: »It seems evolution forces can impact the human diet.
Is eating behavior manipulated by the gastrointestinal microbiota? Evolutionary pressures and potential mechanisms
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4270213/
"Conclusions
Modern biology suggests that our bodies are composed of a diversity of organisms competing for nutritional resources. Evolutionary conflict between the host and microbiota may lead to cravings and cognitive conflict with regard to food choice. Exerting self-control over eating choices may be partly a matter of suppressing microbial signals that originate in the gut. Acquired tastes may be due to the acquisition of microbes that benefit from those foods. Our review suggests that one way to change eating behavior is by intervening in our microbiota....."
I'm curious why you posted that snippet of the conclusions and nothing else? This is from the same conclusions listed in your link.The best approaches to managing our microbiota are still open questions. Many studies of the effects of gut microbes on health have focused on identifying individual taxa that are responsible for human diseases, an approach that has been largely unsuccessful in generating predictive hypotheses. Studies have identified conflicting different groups of microbes associated with various diseases, including obesity 118,119. In other domains, it has proven useful to shift the level of analysis from properties of the individual to properties of the population, e.g. diversity 120. Until we have a better understanding of the contributions and interactions between individual microbial taxa, it may be more effective to focus interventions on increasing microbial diversity in the gut.
In short, they/we don't know yet. Getting there, of course, but not yet.13 -
Glad to see some can still respond with info to GH. Not worth my effort.15
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amusedmonkey wrote: »An interesting tidbit for gut bacteria, since it was mentioned. The colonies that thrive now are somewhat different from what used to thrive, and food plays only a small part. Most of it is living in a different environment. If you want the "good old bacteria" abandon hygiene and live in less than sanitary conditions. There are no good or bad gut bacteria colonies, just different. There are pros and cons to every composition.
I don't know why we like to overcomplicate things. Just eat food you like, don't overeat, don't over analyze, be active, and you should be fine.
Yep. Oversimplify the science and over complicate the execution...6 -
Depends on how you view it though. Most documentaries are biased to the the agenda that the maker wants you to think in. So is it objective or subjective?Thanks for mentioning this program. I love this type of documentary because they make me think. Going to watch it now.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
4 -
Or how about disease SPREAD more because of AVIATION TRAVEL and AUTOMOBILE usage? As well as the population increase in the world.GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »concordancia wrote: »When humans figured out agriculture is also when they started make great strides in civilization.
And if it were not for agriculture, our species would have probably died off...
And for the good of other species I expect they would claim.
Actually it has only been about 50 years since the event of modern farming using GMO's and chemicals vs tilling.. Tractors initially just displaced draft animals. Our human diseases just ramped up there after but surely there is no cause and effect going on.
Where do you come up with this stuff?
I started driving a tractor 63 years ago then a few years later was following a mule in the tobacco patch so just came from on the job training. I was 23 when Roundup came on the market and took shower in it when trying to unclog spray nozzles on the fly. Plot your diabetes numbers starting 50 years ago and note the trend line. I was at ground zero of modern farming practices. If one looks at long term history we know advanced human races tend to become extinct so with our lower life expectancy trend current in place we may be doing ourselves in as well.
What ‘lower life expectancy trend’? And where do you get the idea that human diseases have ‘ramped up’? This is the exact opposite of the facts.
From healthcare news.
American life expectancy has dropped again. Here’s why
https://pbs.org/newshour/health/american-life-expectancy-has-dropped-again-heres-why
U.S. life expectancy declines again, a dismal trend not seen since World War I
https://washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/us-life-expectancy-declines-again-a-dismal-trend-not-seen-since-world-war-i/2018/11/28/ae58bc8c-f28c-11e8-bc79-68604ed88993_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8cf6a3ea056b
Rates of new diagnosed cases of type 1 and type 2 diabetes on the rise among children, teens
https://nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/rates-new-diagnosed-cases-type-1-type-2-diabetes-rise-among-children-teens
Chronic diseases and conditions are on the rise
https://pwc.com/gx/en/industries/healthcare/emerging-trends-pwc-healthcare/chronic-diseases.html
........The middle class is growing; and with urbanisation accelerating, people are adopting a more sedentary lifestyle. This is pushing obesity rates and cases of diseases such as diabetes upward. According to the World Health Organization, chronic disease prevalence is expected to rise by 57% by the year 2020......
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
7 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »concordancia wrote: »When humans figured out agriculture is also when they started make great strides in civilization.
And if it were not for agriculture, our species would have probably died off...
And for the good of other species I expect they would claim.
Actually it has only been about 50 years since the event of modern farming using GMO's and chemicals vs tilling.. Tractors initially just displaced draft animals. Our human diseases just ramped up there after but surely there is no cause and effect going on.
Where do you come up with this stuff?
I started driving a tractor 63 years ago then a few years later was following a mule in the tobacco patch so just came from on the job training. I was 23 when Roundup came on the market and took shower in it when trying to unclog spray nozzles on the fly. Plot your diabetes numbers starting 50 years ago and note the trend line. I was at ground zero of modern farming practices. If one looks at long term history we know advanced human races tend to become extinct so with our lower life expectancy trend current in place we may be doing ourselves in as well.
Which "advanced" human races have become extinct? Australopithicus? Neanderthals?12 -
Or how about disease SPREAD more because of AVIATION TRAVEL and AUTOMOBILE usage? As well as the population increase in the world.GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »concordancia wrote: »When humans figured out agriculture is also when they started make great strides in civilization.
And if it were not for agriculture, our species would have probably died off...
And for the good of other species I expect they would claim.
Actually it has only been about 50 years since the event of modern farming using GMO's and chemicals vs tilling.. Tractors initially just displaced draft animals. Our human diseases just ramped up there after but surely there is no cause and effect going on.
Where do you come up with this stuff?
I started driving a tractor 63 years ago then a few years later was following a mule in the tobacco patch so just came from on the job training. I was 23 when Roundup came on the market and took shower in it when trying to unclog spray nozzles on the fly. Plot your diabetes numbers starting 50 years ago and note the trend line. I was at ground zero of modern farming practices. If one looks at long term history we know advanced human races tend to become extinct so with our lower life expectancy trend current in place we may be doing ourselves in as well.
What ‘lower life expectancy trend’? And where do you get the idea that human diseases have ‘ramped up’? This is the exact opposite of the facts.
From healthcare news.
American life expectancy has dropped again. Here’s why
https://pbs.org/newshour/health/american-life-expectancy-has-dropped-again-heres-why
U.S. life expectancy declines again, a dismal trend not seen since World War I
https://washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/us-life-expectancy-declines-again-a-dismal-trend-not-seen-since-world-war-i/2018/11/28/ae58bc8c-f28c-11e8-bc79-68604ed88993_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8cf6a3ea056b
Rates of new diagnosed cases of type 1 and type 2 diabetes on the rise among children, teens
https://nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/rates-new-diagnosed-cases-type-1-type-2-diabetes-rise-among-children-teens
Chronic diseases and conditions are on the rise
https://pwc.com/gx/en/industries/healthcare/emerging-trends-pwc-healthcare/chronic-diseases.html
........The middle class is growing; and with urbanisation accelerating, people are adopting a more sedentary lifestyle. This is pushing obesity rates and cases of diseases such as diabetes upward. According to the World Health Organization, chronic disease prevalence is expected to rise by 57% by the year 2020......
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
More diseases diagnosed now due to better science and medicine. Way back when you were either just dropped dead, were sickly, or even under demonic influence depending on the culture. Now we know what things like epilepsy, CAD, genetic disorders, and diabetes are, and how to treat them.6 -
I think I can explain the supposed connection between modern agriculture and obesity-related illnesses without jumping to weird conclusions. Increased surplus. Have more food, feed more humans, feed humans more. Just like the original agricultural revolution, but with tractors.13
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lauragreenbaum wrote: »This documentary came out a few years ago, and I'm sure there has been discussion on it here on MFP in the past. But, has anyone else seen it recently? I just watched it on Hulu and it was very interesting. It examines the human diet from an evolutionary perspective. Basically, meat, fish, green vegetables, berries and nuts are what we ate for 2 million years and what made us evolve into humans that we are today. When wheat, sugar, and milk was introduced, our health became much worse and we developed modern diseases (diabetes, obesity, etc). So in a proverbial nutshell:
Meat, fish, green veggies, nuts, a little fruit- GOOD
carbohydrates, wheat, grains, sugar, salt, milk- BAD
Opinions?lynn_glenmont wrote: »The prevailing consensus today is that we have eaten grains all along. I don't remember the exact number but archaeologists just recently found the oldest evidence of bread baking and it's well over 40,000 years old. There's a reason we have multiple genes for digesting starch and that our saliva actually starts breaking it down in our mouths. Starch and grains have been a large part of our diet throughout our history.
OK, but the timeline you're talking about is roughly one one-hundredth of that mentioned in the OP. I don't agree with the arguments cited from the documentary, but that's no reason to make irrelevant arguments.
I watched the documentary and I used to eat paleo and read quite a bit about it so I am very familiar with the arguments. The premise is that we allegedly only added starchy carbs 10,000 years ago when we developed agriculture. I believe this documentary makes the argument - and if it doesn't, prominant voices in the paleo community do - that we got shorter and sicker when we started eating starchy carbs and grains because of the antinutrients in them. Because of the full argument (where the birth of agriculture is considered when we added starchy carbs), evidence that we were eating starchy carbs over 40,000 years ago is definitely relevant as that predates agriculture by 30,000 years. Since I made that post, I verified my sources. There is evidence of bread baking 14,000 years ago - fully 4,000 years before the birth of agriculture - and there is evidence of cooked starchy carbs 120,000 years ago. Definitely old enough to fully disprove the entire premise of the paleo diet.
https://www.sciencealert.com/researchers-have-found-crumbs-of-evidence-from-the-world-s-first-bread
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/scientists-find-early-evidence-of-humans-cooking-starches/
9 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »concordancia wrote: »When humans figured out agriculture is also when they started make great strides in civilization.
And if it were not for agriculture, our species would have probably died off...
And for the good of other species I expect they would claim.
Actually it has only been about 50 years since the event of modern farming using GMO's and chemicals vs tilling.. Tractors initially just displaced draft animals. Our human diseases just ramped up there after but surely there is no cause and effect going on.
Where do you come up with this stuff?
I started driving a tractor 63 years ago then a few years later was following a mule in the tobacco patch so just came from on the job training. I was 23 when Roundup came on the market and took shower in it when trying to unclog spray nozzles on the fly. Plot your diabetes numbers starting 50 years ago and note the trend line. I was at ground zero of modern farming practices. If one looks at long term history we know advanced human races tend to become extinct so with our lower life expectancy trend current in place we may be doing ourselves in as well.
Which "advanced" human races have become extinct? Australopithicus? Neanderthals?
You need to watch more episodes of "Ancient Aliens".
Documentaries should not be seen as a reliable source of information. It's important to understand that it's difficult to get people's attention, and a well-balanced even treatment of almost any subject matter just doesn't cut it. You need zing-pop-flash, which is most likely to happen when you have a controversial agenda and overly-dramatized info and testimonials. Any one film MAY be a reliable source of info, but it's on you to do further homework.
A documentary can be a good springboard for attempting to look into a subject further, but it's important to understand the doc's primary aim was to get you emotionally invested, and you need to do your best to place that aside and keep an open mind while looking for opposing POV's or confounding studies.
This need to nail down the "one true way" seems like such an unnecessary waste of time and intellectual energy. People thrive on a wide variety of dietary patterns; there is ample evidence of that. There's no prize in the race to be the first person who can prove they eat better than everyone else.
8 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »concordancia wrote: »When humans figured out agriculture is also when they started make great strides in civilization.
And if it were not for agriculture, our species would have probably died off...
And for the good of other species I expect they would claim.
Actually it has only been about 50 years since the event of modern farming using GMO's and chemicals vs tilling.. Tractors initially just displaced draft animals. Our human diseases just ramped up there after but surely there is no cause and effect going on.
Where do you come up with this stuff?
I started driving a tractor 63 years ago then a few years later was following a mule in the tobacco patch so just came from on the job training. I was 23 when Roundup came on the market and took shower in it when trying to unclog spray nozzles on the fly. Plot your diabetes numbers starting 50 years ago and note the trend line. I was at ground zero of modern farming practices. If one looks at long term history we know advanced human races tend to become extinct so with our lower life expectancy trend current in place we may be doing ourselves in as well.
Which "advanced" human races have become extinct? Australopithicus? Neanderthals?
You need to watch more episodes of "Ancient Aliens".
Documentaries should not be seen as a reliable source of information. It's important to understand that it's difficult to get people's attention, and a well-balanced even treatment of almost any subject matter just doesn't cut it. You need zing-pop-flash, which is most likely to happen when you have a controversial agenda and overly-dramatized info and testimonials. Any one film MAY be a reliable source of info, but it's on you to do further homework.
A documentary can be a good springboard for attempting to look into a subject further, but it's important to understand the doc's primary aim was to get you emotionally invested, and you need to do your best to place that aside and keep an open mind while looking for opposing POV's or confounding studies.
This need to nail down the "one true way" seems like such an unnecessary waste of time and intellectual energy. People thrive on a wide variety of dietary patterns; there is ample evidence of that. There's no prize in the race to be the first person who can prove they eat better than everyone else.
And herein lies the problem.
Most people will watch these 'documentaries', believe every word, and have no interest whatsoever in investigating the claims any further than that. After all, it was on TV, maybe had a 'doctor' behind it, so it must be legit. And they merrily go on their way feeling so much more enlightened than previously, having no clue that what they just watched may have been entirely bogus.
The rub comes when they get on forums like this one and try to 'educate' everyone else. That usually doesn't end well. 9 -
The perfect diet??? THE ONE YOU CAN STICK TO!6
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snickerscharlie wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »concordancia wrote: »When humans figured out agriculture is also when they started make great strides in civilization.
And if it were not for agriculture, our species would have probably died off...
And for the good of other species I expect they would claim.
Actually it has only been about 50 years since the event of modern farming using GMO's and chemicals vs tilling.. Tractors initially just displaced draft animals. Our human diseases just ramped up there after but surely there is no cause and effect going on.
Where do you come up with this stuff?
I started driving a tractor 63 years ago then a few years later was following a mule in the tobacco patch so just came from on the job training. I was 23 when Roundup came on the market and took shower in it when trying to unclog spray nozzles on the fly. Plot your diabetes numbers starting 50 years ago and note the trend line. I was at ground zero of modern farming practices. If one looks at long term history we know advanced human races tend to become extinct so with our lower life expectancy trend current in place we may be doing ourselves in as well.
Which "advanced" human races have become extinct? Australopithicus? Neanderthals?
You need to watch more episodes of "Ancient Aliens".
Documentaries should not be seen as a reliable source of information. It's important to understand that it's difficult to get people's attention, and a well-balanced even treatment of almost any subject matter just doesn't cut it. You need zing-pop-flash, which is most likely to happen when you have a controversial agenda and overly-dramatized info and testimonials. Any one film MAY be a reliable source of info, but it's on you to do further homework.
A documentary can be a good springboard for attempting to look into a subject further, but it's important to understand the doc's primary aim was to get you emotionally invested, and you need to do your best to place that aside and keep an open mind while looking for opposing POV's or confounding studies.
This need to nail down the "one true way" seems like such an unnecessary waste of time and intellectual energy. People thrive on a wide variety of dietary patterns; there is ample evidence of that. There's no prize in the race to be the first person who can prove they eat better than everyone else.
And herein lies the problem.
Most people will watch these 'documentaries', believe every word, and have no interest whatsoever in investigating the claims any further than that. After all, it was on TV, maybe had a 'doctor' behind it, so it must be legit. And they merrily go on their way feeling so much more enlightened than previously, having no clue that what they just watched may have been entirely bogus.
The rub comes when they get on forums like this one and try to 'educate' everyone else. That usually doesn't end well.
Exactly.
I gave some books on keto to a friend of mine who is doing keto but stalled on weight loss. She said she'd take them, but she probably won't read them because everything she needs to know is on Netflix or YouTube. 🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️ I understand the readily available and easily digestible info part of her arguement, but when you refuse any info that requires further digging, yet want to convert others, it's a problem.1 -
I want to be genetically modified to manufacture my own vitamins C and D.1
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@GaleHawkinsGaleHawkins wrote: »It seems evolution forces can impact the human diet.
Is eating behavior manipulated by the gastrointestinal microbiota? Evolutionary pressures and potential mechanisms
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4270213/
"Conclusions
Modern biology suggests that our bodies are composed of a diversity of organisms competing for nutritional resources. Evolutionary conflict between the host and microbiota may lead to cravings and cognitive conflict with regard to food choice. Exerting self-control over eating choices may be partly a matter of suppressing microbial signals that originate in the gut. Acquired tastes may be due to the acquisition of microbes that benefit from those foods. Our review suggests that one way to change eating behavior is by intervening in our microbiota....."
I'm curious why you posted that snippet of the conclusions and nothing else? This is from the same conclusions listed in your link.The best approaches to managing our microbiota are still open questions. Many studies of the effects of gut microbes on health have focused on identifying individual taxa that are responsible for human diseases, an approach that has been largely unsuccessful in generating predictive hypotheses. Studies have identified conflicting different groups of microbes associated with various diseases, including obesity 118,119. In other domains, it has proven useful to shift the level of analysis from properties of the individual to properties of the population, e.g. diversity 120. Until we have a better understanding of the contributions and interactions between individual microbial taxa, it may be more effective to focus interventions on increasing microbial diversity in the gut.
In short, they/we don't know yet. Getting there, of course, but not yet.
I picked one random citation from this essay, one that supposedly gave what even the authors called “circumstantial evidence” of a causal link between the microbiome and anxiety. I was shocked, shocked I tell you to discover that it was a probiotic study funded by Rossell Lallemand...a probiotics manufacturer.5
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