BMR seems like a wild guess to me
jim_pipkin
Posts: 82 Member
At 6-foot-1 and 309lbs, with daily one hour workouts that include 3000 hip abductors, 1000 pelvic lifts, plus weight training...and a warehouse job that keeps me on my feet tossing boxes 6-8 hours every weekday, I should be able to eat 2200 calories a day and lose weight. NOT. If I go over 1600 GROSS calories in a day, I gain weight. After nine months I am down 115 pounds, but my body is seriously fighting back. Last week I needed a 36-hour fast to drop weight, this week it looks like the same. Will I have to live on less than 1600 calories the rest of my life?
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Replies
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How are you determining your calories? Do you weigh solid food and measure liquids? Chances are that you are eating more than you think - it seems very unlikely that a 6-foot-1 very active male would gain weight on anything over 1600 calories. I would look at the logging accuracy first.
edited to complete the comment
eta: After 9 months of aggressive dieting you may benefit from a diet break (eating at maintenance for a period of time). Check out this thread - the first couple of pages are most informative.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10604863/of-refeeds-and-diet-breaks/p112 -
How are you measuring weight loss? It sounds like you need to stick to 1600 to lose weight every single day or week? Well, yes, to have extraordinary results, you have to do extraordinary things. That isn't necessarily what is best for your long term health.6
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jim_pipkin wrote: »At 6-foot-1 and 309lbs, with daily one hour workouts that include 3000 hip abductors, 1000 pelvic lifts, plus weight training...and a warehouse job that keeps me on my feet tossing boxes 6-8 hours every weekday, I should be able to eat 2200 calories a day and lose weight. NOT. If I go over 1600 GROSS calories in a day, I gain weight. After nine months I am down 115 pounds, but my body is seriously fighting back. Last week I needed a 36-hour fast to drop weight, this week it looks like the same. Will I have to live on less than 1600 calories the rest of my life?
Weight loss isn't linear, and your body doesn't immediately change in weight based on what you did yesterday or even this week. It's a constant ongoing process. You have been losing weight at dramatic pace for quite a while, and it's simply not realistic to expect that to continue consistently until you reach goal weight.
You are putting an enormous amount of stress on your body trying to wring that 3 lbs out of it every week, and fasting on top of it, you are probably experiencing dramatic water weight swings and digestive content changes.
These links may help:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10084670/it-is-unlikely-that-you-will-lose-weight-consistently-i-e-weight-loss-is-not-linear/p1
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10604863/of-refeeds-and-diet-breaks/p1
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10634517/you-dont-use-a-food-scale/p114 -
How are you determining your calories? Do you weigh solid food and measure liquids? Chances are that you are eating more than you think - it seems very unlikely that a 6-foot-1 very active male would gain weight on anything over 1600 calories. I would look at the logging accuracy first.
I weigh and measure everything - thus my confusion. But also the pace of my weight loss is no doubt a factor, dropping 3lbs a week for 38 weeks is not sustainable, and not what I'm shooting for - but after nine months, even a half pound loss per week requires drastic calorie cuts.
[MFP mods fixed the quote]3 -
eta: After 9 months of aggressive dieting you may benefit from a diet break (eating at maintenance for a period of time). Check out this thread - the first couple of pages are most informative.
My problem is whenever I try "maintenance" levels, my weight shoots up several pounds in a few days. I don't want to lose the ground I've gained, so I stopped doing that.
[MFP mods fixed the quote]1 -
jim_pipkin wrote: »eta: After 9 months of aggressive dieting you may benefit from a diet break (eating at maintenance for a period of time). Check out this thread - the first couple of pages are most informative.
My problem is whenever I try "maintenance" levels, my weight shoots up several pounds in a few days. I don't want to lose the ground I've gained, so I stopped doing that.
Stay away from the scale!!!
Unless you are eating 3500 extra calories per day you are NOT gaining fat (or anything other than the normal fluctuations). Weigh yourself weekly. Expect results monthly.
[MFP mods fixed the quotes]6 -
I'm under a doc's care and will see him tomorrow to go over this. My feeling is that I just have an extremely efficient metabolism, and need to work inside those limits.
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jim_pipkin wrote: »eta: After 9 months of aggressive dieting you may benefit from a diet break (eating at maintenance for a period of time). Check out this thread - the first couple of pages are most informative.
My problem is whenever I try "maintenance" levels, my weight shoots up several pounds in a few days. I don't want to lose the ground I've gained, so I stopped doing that.
It's probably water weight. You can't gain several pounds of fat in a few days.
[MFP mods fixed the quotes]10 -
jim_pipkin wrote: »At 6-foot-1 and 309lbs, with daily one hour workouts that include 3000 hip abductors, 1000 pelvic lifts, plus weight training...and a warehouse job that keeps me on my feet tossing boxes 6-8 hours every weekday, I should be able to eat 2200 calories a day and lose weight. NOT. If I go over 1600 GROSS calories in a day, I gain weight. After nine months I am down 115 pounds, but my body is seriously fighting back. Last week I needed a 36-hour fast to drop weight, this week it looks like the same. Will I have to live on less than 1600 calories the rest of my life?
ok - I gotta ask - why are you doing 3000 hip abductors a day???11 -
Your numbers aren't adding up. If you say you have been losing an average of 3 pounds a week on 1600 calories a day, that would put your maintenance calories at 3100 per day. There is no mathematical way your body burns 3 pounds a week on 1600 calories but gains weight on 2200 calories.
Here is what I think is happening: you have lost some water weight along the way, which your body naturally fluctuates and it is normal to go up and down because of a variety of different factors. One of those factors is how much food you eat. So yes, if you up your calories a bit, you may see a short term jump in the scale. This is not fat and will be temporary. I think you are too obsessed with the scale number and not giving things enough time to play its course. Things like 36 hour fasts just a way to manipulate the scale by essentially purging your body of all water weight from food intake. It is not sustainable and only going to bounce back harder.
If you ate at 2200 calories for a month, you would see your weight loss steadily continue downwards after an initial bounce. I do not believe that it is close to your maintence calories. But you are getting too influenced by natural water weight fluctuations that is preventing you from seeing that.25 -
jim_pipkin wrote: »eta: After 9 months of aggressive dieting you may benefit from a diet break (eating at maintenance for a period of time). Check out this thread - the first couple of pages are most informative.
My problem is whenever I try "maintenance" levels, my weight shoots up several pounds in a few days. I don't want to lose the ground I've gained, so I stopped doing that.
It's probably water weight. You can't gain several pounds of fat in a few days.
[MFP mods fixed the quotes]
This.
I think it might be helpful to try to find your maintenance level and then eat there for a while and move to a more reasonable deficit. Worth talking to your doctor about.
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ok - I gotta ask - why are you doing 3000 hip abductors a day???
Why not?
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Thanks for all of the solid advice, everyone - a lot of this is simply my own impatience. Once I started getting all of this excess weight off, I wanted it GONE...but it will take more time.2
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jim_pipkin wrote: »ok - I gotta ask - why are you doing 3000 hip abductors a day???
Why not?
what are you trying to achieve though? I've just never heard of someone whose main goal is endurance for the hip abductors?5 -
Hi @jim_pipkin , I remember your thread from the Success area. As someone who has lost a significant amount of weight it is possible that your body will experience water weight fluctuations outside the norm. I have had this happen to me but because I am a numbers person I knew immediately that it was water and not fat. I spoke with my doctor about it and was placed on a diuretic that improved my BP and helps prevent me from escalating up and down so much that it makes my electrolytes hard to manage. Even still last week I dropped 6 pounds of water to catch up with my fat weight loss.
I would like to invite you to Larger Losers which is a MFP group for people who have started or are starting with more than 75 pounds to lose. It is also for people who have lost that amount or more to come by and help coach those of us that are still losing.
Here is the link:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/133315-larger-losers
We discuss a lot of the physical and mental aspects of weight loss as well as weight loss math that you might find interesting or helpful.8 -
"what are you trying to achieve though? I've just never heard of someone whose main goal is endurance for the hip abductors?"
Hip abductors work some of the largest muscles in the body. Combined with other core movement they help with leg strength, balance, and definitely as a fat burner if you do them, as I do, first thing in the AM after a 9-hour fast, before eating. My focus is on returning to long distance hiking, over broken terrain, and once I reach my goal of 5000 per day I will be close to my old level of training from 30 years ago. Over halfway there.16 -
jim_pipkin wrote: »"what are you trying to achieve though? I've just never heard of someone whose main goal is endurance for the hip abductors?"
Hip abductors work some of the largest muscles in the body. Combined with other core movement they help with leg strength, balance, and definitely as a fat burner if you do them, as I do, first thing in the AM after a 9-hour fast, before eating. My focus is on returning to long distance hiking, over broken terrain, and once I reach my goal of 5000 per day I will be close to my old level of training from 30 years ago. Over halfway there.
You will find there are many myths in the diet and fitness industry. The most successful people don't fall for them. While many are not harmful (fat burning after a fast), some can be and can also be costly. Just a general bit of advice - Don't believe everything you read or hear.
FWIW - Lifting weights burns very little and focusing on single muscle exercises will eventually lead to an imbalance which can lead to injury. Be careful.
Good luck.13 -
You have a lot of extreme, illogical thinking going on. I urge you to speak to a dietician and counselor to stop your yoyo behavior.10
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mochapygmy wrote: »You have a lot of extreme, illogical thinking going on. I urge you to speak to a dietician and counselor to stop your yoyo behavior.
Dieticians and counselors also have a wide range of advice, much of it bogus. What I am doing is WORKING, after years of yo-yo dieting that did not, and the doctor I am working with agrees with both my program and the numbers from regular blood tests and physicals. I am seeing steady weight loss, and developing a lifestyle that is active and sustainable. If that is extreme and illogical, I'm gonna run with it.7 -
jim_pipkin wrote: »mochapygmy wrote: »You have a lot of extreme, illogical thinking going on. I urge you to speak to a dietician and counselor to stop your yoyo behavior.
Dieticians and counselors also have a wide range of advice, much of it bogus. What I am doing is WORKING, after years of yo-yo dieting that did not, and the doctor I am working with agrees with both my program and the numbers from regular blood tests and physicals. I am seeing steady weight loss, and developing a lifestyle that is active and sustainable. If that is extreme and illogical, I'm gonna run with it.
Why post if you don't want an answer?
Your original post clearly shows that you don't think it sustainable and to be frank the fact that your numbers make zero sense, that you think weight loss from a 36 hour fast is 'real' and think that you burn more fat when fasted implies that you probably need to fact check yourself to make sure that your losses can continue and truly be sustainable.
FWIW - while calorie burns are definitely specific to individuals and are not uniform by any means, I can almost guarantee that it is physically impossible for a 6 foot male at 300 pounds to have a maintenance calorie level of 1600 calories per day. It's likely that you are not logging or measuring properly.15 -
Why post if you don't want an answer?
My apologies if I came off flippant, but...advice and facts are welcome - being called extreme and illogical is not really helpful, it came off kind of patronizing, which I have had enough of in half a lifetime of obesity. When a post starts with an insult, even a mild one, it kinda clogs my ears. But I read it anyway, and I'll try not to respond in kind. I've actually had several nice bits of input on this thread, very helpful.FWIW - while calorie burns are definitely specific to individuals and are not uniform by any means, I can almost guarantee that it is physically impossible for a 6 foot male at 300 pounds to have a maintenance calorie level of 1600 calories per day. It's likely that you are not logging or measuring properly.
Glad your guarantee came with an "almost", because that is indeed the case. I weigh and measure very carefully, log everything, and based on the best information I can get on the calories burned by the exercises I am doing, this is the situation. It was very frustrating, so I posted hoping someone else out there had encountered the same problem and could offer some insight.
As to the fasting weight loss being "real" - well, that weight is still gone, along with a little more, but it took several 1400-calorie days to get there. It seems in my situation the math is just strange. I have friends who fast regularly, sometimes for days, have for years, and swear by it. I am new to it myself, but willing to give it a shot now and again as needed.
I took this all up with my doctor last week, and his opinion is that I have reached a metabolic slowing caused by extreme weight loss over the past nine months. His advice was to increase my calories to about 1800 cal/day, weigh myself after two weeks to avoid a water weight shock, and then look for continued loss in the 1-2 pounds per week range instead of the 3 pounds per week I did over the past nine months. His opinion on fasting is that some studies have shown that it can not only speed weight loss, but help prevent or diminish some cancers and other "high metabolic" diseases, and since I'm not hypoglycemic he sees no issues if I don't overdo it.
I intend to follow his advice and see what happens. If my weight shoots up after two weeks at 1800/day, I will throttle back on the food again, because I am NOT going back.
The exercise routine continues - it is actually quite moderate compared to the routine I had 30 years ago, before all of my weight gain, and specific to my hobbies now.
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Did you read this yet, OP?
http://physiqonomics.com/the-weird-and-highly-annoying-world-of-scale-weight-and-fluctuations3 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »Did you read this yet, OP?
http://physiqonomics.com/the-weird-and-highly-annoying-world-of-scale-weight-and-fluctuations
YES...and thank you! Excellent resource, I signed up for the regular emails. Much appreciated!1 -
I noticed that for myself after a fast I would gain weight. It seemed that I was picking up a lot of water weight. I have read that to burn fat the body needs 2 molecules of water for each molecule of fat. Is is almost counter-intuitive, but your body would store up enough water to metabolize fat before starting. Fasting can lead to dehydration, exacerbating the problem. It reasons you would lose a few pounds of water, then regain as you started eating again. Safe weight loss is supposed to be 1 to 2 pounds a week. As you seem to be nearly twice that at 3.7 pounds average, you will have nearly put yourself into a starvation mode and your body may be trying to store every last calorie it can in an effort to save itself. I am no expert, nor claim to be. I have lost nearly 50 pounds in 5 months using some of the information I ,and others, have outlined.7
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Everyone seems to know all the scientific stuff. I don’t. But I do know this. Every time I severely cut calories, I lose about 10 pounds in a very, very short time. Every time I go back to higher calories after a while on fewer calories, I gain about 10 pounds in a very, very short time. Then my weight levels out.0
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jim_pipkin wrote: »
As to the fasting weight loss being "real" - well, that weight is still gone, along with a little more, but it took several 1400-calorie days to get there. It seems in my situation the math is just strange. I have friends who fast regularly, sometimes for days, have for years, and swear by it. I am new to it myself, but willing to give it a shot now and again as needed.
Hi again,
This is one of the reasons I invited you to the group. Your math is not strange and neither is your impatience I am afraid. You are trying to strangle results that you need to allow to happen. I once waited 7 weeks for a new low weight but I knew it was coming because I am a numbers person. My weight loss is ridiculously predictable if I give it enough time to show up on the bathroom scale. In my spreadsheet I have a weight track that is labeled 'Lowest'. Each day it updates based on the calorie deficit from the day before. My weight can be in many other tracks on my curve but I always eventually visit the lowest one. I would prefer to never leave it but that is not how the human body works.
Sustainability will not come with overreaction and overcompensation. You have to trust the process and find a lane and stick with it unless/until there is no choice but adapt.
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jim_pipkin wrote: »
Sustainability will not come with overreaction and overcompensation. You have to trust the process and find a lane and stick with it unless/until there is no choice but adapt.
I know my impatience is my biggest obstacle at this point, TRYING to trust the process.0 -
jim_pipkin wrote: »
I believe I understand. You have all this energy and you have gotten yourself addicted to the progress. When you start and you have a lot to lose that scale pays out like a broken slot machine. The problem is you are close to where I am now and progress gets less and less linear on the bathroom scale.
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You have all this energy and you have gotten yourself addicted to the progress.
Exactly. I have to throttle back, keep the workouts going, and increase my calories to a sane level - which means I can expect a bump in the short term, but should start seeing steady progress once my body figures out we're not in a Gulag.2 -
I find if you just eat BMR you’ll lose weight IF YOU DONT EAT BACK calories lost from any day to day activities or exercise
The whole idea of eating back is to slow and steady out weight loss. In my opinion if you exercise then eat it back. Just stick to calorie deficit 🤷♀️
I’ve always set goal to BMR for calorie intake as what my goal weight will be. If I am going to be at 1120 for BMR at goal Wright then if I just stick to this as my intake amount during the diet journey, will hit goal weight for sure. Once you get to goal. Then work on increasing calories to suit your desired maintenance weight works better than any diet plan out there.13
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