From zero to twenty pull-ups - No experience necessary!
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After taking 2 days of break from shoulders/arms (day one rest my lats still were notably sore from W-2D1/2) I was back at this today and back at push ups. I was very very surprised how just those two sessions really added control to my negatives and slowed the descent. I repeated negative sets of W-2D2 because on Day 3 it skips to doing full pull up.
I'm not really sure how the program thinks if you couldn't do a pull up just 2 days of 5Set1Rep negatives is going to get you there TBH for people who are starting at a true no success mark.
That said, the improvement in 2 days of work and a bit of rest was indeed impressive. I suspect if progress like this increases I should be able to do a decent pull up or two by the end of the month.2 -
gemiller87 wrote: »I repeated negative sets of W-2D2 because on Day 3 it skips to doing full pull up.
I'm not really sure how the program thinks if you couldn't do a pull up just 2 days of 5Set1Rep negatives is going to get you there TBH for people who are starting at a true no success mark.
That said, the improvement in 2 days of work and a bit of rest was indeed impressive.
Yeah I hear you on the day W-2D3 plan - Why the 1 full pull up is set up at the END of the set is a little weird. As if some one who couldn't do one pull up a week before suddenly is going to do one at a very fatigued state.
The good news is that week-1 is set up more like one would expect(and it makes me think that W-2D3 could be a typo) . At any rate, my personal opinion is that once you feel you can control the negative (5 sec at top, 5 to lower and 5 in an engaged low hang ) for all 5 negatives adding another negative each day (in a new set after rest) is the best way to get that first pull up.
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Well I do have hardwood floors at home so I'll give these a try. Most hotel rooms are carpeted so you would have to do these in the hotel gym when doing these and many of those gyms are matted. It may be just as hard to find a hardwood floor in a strange city as a decent pull up bar.mom23mangos wrote: »I thought this video was pretty interesting.
They look like they would work really well as active stretching before and after doing pull ups, however.
The trainer in the video says "you will look absolutely ridiculous" and he is totally correct, though I gave up caring what others think when I worked on handstand push ups at the gym in my work building.
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My goal this year was to work on being able to even do 1 pullup from a dead hang. However, I like to cross train with a variety of workouts all week and can only devote maybe 1 day per week on this. Do you think I can still make gains following the workout schedule once a week? (and I'd probably still tack on some HIIT cardio after working on pullups)0
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MT you're setting a good and inspiring example....and...
I'm female, 56, around 235 lbs, history of rotor cuff injury, so I can't even try this challenge.
I just want to weigh in here that pull ups may not be appropriate for everyone, folk need to assess their own situation to avoid injury to body or ego.
It's easier for someone who is close to healthy weight to do a pull up than for someone who is 100 lbs overweight to do one, so when assessing your progress don't forget to include where you are starting from and adjusting your expectations accordingly. Dudes without prior injury history and in the body-building side of MFP rather than the fat loss side are going to have faster progress than someone like me.
Not trying to rain on your excellent parade but do want to keep others from feeling bad if their mileage on this project doesn't keep up with yours.0 -
My goal this year was to work on being able to even do 1 pullup from a dead hang... Do you think I can still make gains following the workout schedule once a week?
Welcome to the group.
Yes, I think that a beginner can make gains on a once per week schedule. Once a week is a whole lot more than nothing and hopefully with your cross training you are strengthening some of the muscles needed to reach your goal of a dead hang pull-up as well. If you take a look at workout plans on MFP, many people are only working a body type once a week.
-BIG HOWEVER: You will reach your goals quicker if you can find out the proper work load on your exercise day and couple that with the proper rest period. For a beginner using body weight, your rest period is much shorter than one week. More like 48-72 hours.
Let's talk about goals for one minute. You stated "My goal this year was to work on being able to even do 1 pull-up from a dead hang." Do you have a similar goal for cross training? As in some kind of defined goal in mind that is concrete and measurable? Trainers often say to set a defined goal, rather than a general goal like "I want to be stronger", because it is helpful in measuring (and attaining) success. Is your cross training goal more important than your pull-ups goal? I ask because it looks like you have an issue of not enough time to excel in both at the same time. (its not you, everybody only has 24 hours in the day
) This is where periodization comes into play - If you have short burst goals, such as 6 weeks, you can increase focus on one goal, while setting the other goal(s) to the back burner, and at the conclusion of the goal sprint, reassess all your goals. Maybe as the new year get closer, you want to reach that defined goal of one pull-up and now is a good time to switch up. You could increase your pull-ups to 3/week and reduce the cross training to 2 or 3/week. There are just about six weeks left in the year!
At any rate, this is your plan. If you want to work pull-ups once a week and come back here and report your work, please do so. Also, if you want to do neutral grip or chip-ups, sweet.
There's not a lot of right or wrong debate going on this challenge . If you are pulling on a bar, we're cheering.
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@mthwbrwn , thanks for the thoughtful post! I think you summed it up right here - "Once a week is a whole lot more than nothing" - I certainly won't get to one pullup by doing nothing and not something. I'm going to see when I can fit in the pullup practice in my schedule. I may also try to squeeze it in on my "rest day" before I do my light workout, or before a "leg day" workout.
I'm not willing to just focus on pullups for a short period. I need crosstraining for sanity more than anything else, and I lose my cardio fitness very quickly if I ignore that for any length of time, even just a few weeks. (I alternate traditional strength, MWT/MRT, traditional cardio, and yoga) I was thinking about incorporating extra bodyweight and/or suspension training into the mix to help my pullup performance along.
Anyway, challenge accepted! Will post when I do the first workout.0 -
I feel like I am far off from being able to do even one pull up, but it is definitely one of my fitness goals. Thanks so much for sharing this challenge. I'm going to give it a try. Even to have a structured plan set out to do the negatives, is a great starting point.1
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mom23mangos wrote: »I thought this video was pretty interesting. This may work for you @mthwbrwn next time you are traveling without access to a bar.
https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/a19529627/the-move-that-will-make-you-a-pullup-powerhouse/
When I watched this video, all I could think about was how this will hurt my boobs. Looks like a great alternative, but ouch!0 -
@LAT1963
Thank you for your interest in this discussion.
I'm sorry to hear that your situation is such that you are unable to try this challenge. Pull-ups won't be or everyone. They are a complex movement using 13 different muscles (including those of the rotator cuff) and any injury to these muscles or the surrounding ligaments and tendons can make this challenge impossible. Certain modifications, such as neutral grip, however, do lesson the rotation to the rotator cuff and can make this movement easier. This is a discussion you would want to have with your doctor, not anyone on MFP.
That said, if you have been given the red light by your doctor for all overhead pulling, there are currently 185 pages of other challenges on MFP that you can join and challenge yourself appropriately.
Good Luck
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Pullups were one of the few things I could still do when dealing with rotator cuff injury. I just couldn't do any pushing (still have to be really careful).
I miserably failed Week 5/Day 3, so I'm just going to start over again at Week 5/Day2. I was really active yesterday including an Aerial silk class that involved pullups, straight arm balls and 20ft. climbs, so that may have contributed.mom23mangos wrote: »I thought this video was pretty interesting. This may work for you @mthwbrwn next time you are traveling without access to a bar.
https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/a19529627/the-move-that-will-make-you-a-pullup-powerhouse/
When I watched this video, all I could think about was how this will hurt my boobs. Looks like a great alternative, but ouch!
Haha! I have no boobs, so that thought never crossed my mind. I hope it's not too painful!0 -
I would gladly join, but ignorant. What is negative referring to in this case?0
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I was able to finish W2D2 yesterday. I was feeling pretty good so I ended up doing an extra on the 5th round.
3/3/2/3/4. I then did a single round of 4 about an hour later but noticed elbow pain creeping back so I held back on throwing more volume on.
@mom23mangos - "I was really active yesterday including an Aerial silk class that involved pullups, straight arm balls and 20ft. climbs" <-- This is the opposite of failing miserably.
The pull-ups are the potatoes and the Aerial silk class is the gravy. Lets be honest, who's dishing up a plateful of just potatoes?
My metaphor might have gone sideways. Let me put it another way. You are kicking major *kitten* and living life right!0 -
I have to try getting one pull up in! I have the upper body strength of a squirrel, but all that can change!2
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I would gladly join, but ignorant. What is negative referring to in this case?
A negative is where you climb to the top of the bar with a helping item like a small step stoop or a partners help to ease you up and lower yourself as slowly and controlled as possible holding various points when possible. IE Start with chin above bar, hold for so long and then lower yourself and hold. I try to stop at halfway and hold that position as well.
But essentially just a reverse pull up building all the necessary muscle groups.
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I would gladly join, but ignorant. What is negative referring to in this case?
Welcome to the group. According to twenty pullupsNegative pull up:
Climb up to the bar so you start in the topmost position, then slowly lower yourself. Work against the gravity and try to lower yourself as slow as you can.
When I do negatives, I like to hold a flexed arm hang up top for 5 seconds then a 5 count down and at the bottom keep "engaged" for 5 seconds. "engaged' is having your shoulders pulled down and in, almost like you are trying to hold a pencil between your shoulder blades.
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I would gladly join, but ignorant. What is negative referring to in this case?
Welcome to the group. According to twenty pullupsNegative pull up:
Climb up to the bar so you start in the topmost position, then slowly lower yourself. Work against the gravity and try to lower yourself as slow as you can.
When I do negatives, I like to hold a flexed arm hang up top for 5 seconds then a 5 count down and at the bottom keep "engaged" for 5 seconds. "engaged' is having your shoulders pulled down and in, almost like you are trying to hold a pencil between your shoulder blades.
Well derp to me. That makes perfect sense now. Thank you! I'll go into hiding for a few years now.0 -
The last two days I have been doing some light bench pressing (first time lifting since high school age) with a bench a friend gave me. Started day one at 3 sets 5 reps 85lbs, yesterday 2 sets 5reps 100lb, 4 sets 5 reps 90lbs and 2 sets 10 reps curls 45lbs plus my continued negatives and pushups. I took a stab yesterday at a regular pull up and there was major progress but I also did it after the bench in poor planning. Still couldn't do it but definitely seeing and feeling improvement.
Tonight going to do my completely workout cycle again: squats, planks, sit-ups, push ups, pull up negatives and the newly added bench press and curls. Taking Wednesday off completely except for sit ups/planks because my recovery on core feels really good currently. I'm 50/50 in starting to feel confidence that i'll make success to a pull up earlier than the end of the year which was my original goal at this point.
The only concern I have with progress/gains is still being in a notable weight loss deficit. I'm making headway looking at my workout logs for all exercises because i'm fresh in strength training but i'm still in a very very strong deficit (2lb calculations with no eat back for burn offs, losing 3-5lbs a week). I'm closing in on my goal weight <15lbs to go from a total loss of 110lbs since I started tracking in March and 125-135 total. I think that's probably a if not THE major hold back factor on pull up progress at this point for me.2 -
Congrats on reducing 110#. That is commendable.
Progress will be limited by staying low on calories, but as I stated to @yamabchi, it really is a matter of figuring out what the most important thing to you is and the most important thing AT THE MOMENT. This also goes for exercise order. If benching is currently more important, do it first.
While having the drive to reach a long term goal is important, you definitely should allow yourself to reassess along the way and make changes as needed (or wanted).
The thing I would suggest is to keep a log of your goals and a daily check-in. The check-in can be as easy as a daily smiley face or a few thoughts on the day. The website for Polar flow(for my watch) does this and while I first though it was silly, it has helped me figure out when I was getting stale from overwork from my cycling.0 -
@gemiller87 - losing weight will be the BEST thing that will help your pullup progress. Just 5lbs makes a HUGE difference. If you start training at the weight you are now, you will fly by the time you get to your goal weight.
Unfortunately I just got news yesterday that I have to have a small basal cell carcinoma removed from by abdomen next week and depending on the length of incision/number of stitches I may have to hold off on pullups for a bit since it stretches your abdomen quite a bit.0 -
Congrats on reducing 110#. That is commendable.
Progress will be limited by staying low on calories, but as I stated to @yamabchi, it really is a matter of figuring out what the most important thing to you is and the most important thing AT THE MOMENT. This also goes for exercise order. If benching is currently more important, do it first.
While having the drive to reach a long term goal is important, you definitely should allow yourself to reassess along the way and make changes as needed (or wanted).
The thing I would suggest is to keep a log of your goals and a daily check-in. The check-in can be as easy as a daily smiley face or a few thoughts on the day. The website for Polar flow(for my watch) does this and while I first though it was silly, it has helped me figure out when I was getting stale from overwork from my cycling.
Yea right now i'm just starting the strength training but not really pushing at full force or expecting major gains. I know the weight goal is well within reach now so I will primarily focus my main push onto that while working on all this kind of stuff. Once I get to weight and swap to maintenance calories I will be 100% focused on taking advantage of the additional input available to work with! I won't miss the pull up goal by the end of the year and will push for it sooner as capable!
I just suspect that progress would be quicker if I wasn't in such a deficit right now is all!
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Interesting
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mom23mangos wrote: »I just got news yesterday that I have to have a small basal cell carcinoma removed from by abdomen next week
That is some unfortunate news. I hope you are OK.
Here's to you having a speedy recovery and getting back to your pull-ups and aerial work as soon as possible.
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finished W2D3 3/3/3/2/4 -2
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An interesting read through this thread. I set my mind in January 2019 that I wanted to accomplish as many pull-ups as I could when I was 17 (between 7-9, I think). Background: I’m 44, follow a non-strict healthy vegetarian diet, and had regressed in my exercise routine since a pinched nerve affected my left leg 3 months prior. I began a program that focused on getting to 20 pullups through chair-assist and isometric methods at the start. For the entirety of my training, my routine has also included pushups, bicep curls and abdominal training, all at home.
January 2019: Max 0.7 pullup, 0.8 chinup. Max 3 situps, but continue to 30 as partial curlups. Max 6 pushups.
Few months: Max 3 pullups, 2 pullups. Can’t break plateau, so I start to practice dead-hangs as well. Baseline dead-hang about 6 seconds. Max 6 situps, but continue to 30 as partial curl-ups. Max 15 pushups.
8 months: Max 5 pullups, 6 chinups. New plateau. Dead-hang max at 45 seconds, so new focus on strengthening core instead. Still max 6 proper situps, so switch to Ab-Roller 45 day workout plan instead. Max 20 pushups, and max 15 narrow-stance (hands near neck) pushups. Decide to include resistance band training that focuses on building scapular strength.
11 months (now): Max 6 pullups, 7 chinups. Max pushups as before. Ab-Roller workout almost maximized (nose-to-the-floor is still a little too difficult).
Max reps: I’m still struggling to achieve my initial goal.
Body weight: no significant loss, but already a healthy BMI.
“Mirror-test”: my waist is a bit narrower, but my shoulders have SIGNIFICANTLY more muscle tone (I now also have upper back muscles). My biceps have always been good, but since the resistance band training my triceps are now noticeable.
Other: It’s been hard incorporating enough protein into my diet. Not sure if it’s just a mental illusion, but I think that the training is a bit easier (and the recovery better) when I meet my protein goals.
Tonight’s my workout night, so maybe I’ll try this new approach. If I can get to 7 max, I’d love to continue to 20 max.2 -
minorzwarpath, I find it interesting that at a healthy BMI and that kind of pull up stats your sit-ups are where they are? What are they at currently?
I'm not into a healthy BMI unless I add in the neck/waist calculation method in which case i'm around 24%. I can't do a single pull up yet in good form, but am doing roughly 150 military arms crossed style sit ups a day, i want to say the split yesterday was 46, 26, 22, 16, 16, 24 or something like that with 60s interval for the first 4 and 45s intervals on the last 2 sets. I also am doing a plank program which uses various forms of planks with 30s intervals, for a total of around 3-5 minutes of planking a day at my current stage of the program.
If you're stuck in a plateau perhaps considering taking the pre-emptive test from twentypullups.com and then following the program from the start where your test results would put you and follow the day to day program. Not doing proper repetitions and sets will definitely reduce improvement. Lots of gain comes from those rest and repeat cycles of these types of programs.
That said, from your start of .7 or less of a full pull up, what did you work on to make the transition to being able to complete one? I've been sticking to negatives on the pull up bar and starting on the bench presses plus working on push ups. I can do 10-12 push ups in good form and my current rep/set for pushups i'm on (in a program i'm using) is 8,8,6,7,6 with 45s intervals and still have a notable amount to go before I can complete a single pull up in good form.
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gemiller87: smartbmicalculator.com puts me at 23.7 which roughly corresponds with other calculators as well.
In my 30s I was fine doing regular situps *with* my feet held in place. I wasn't enjoying trying to break my recent situp/curlup plateau as part of my routine though, so I took another approach with the Ab-Carver (also works shoulders to some extent). My core is a bit stronger, but it didn't translate into increased situp reps. And I admit that's concerning.
A few things to increase my pullup ability in the early days: dead-hangs (I believe these made a difference in stretching the muscles involved), max holds at the top of the movement, and negatives. I very much dislike doing chair-assisted pullups - I end up worrying whether I'm working the proper muscle groups or not. But I forced myself to complete them during my summer plateau.
My form is pretty good, descend until just before my elbows would lock, and if I feel I'm about to "kip" I slightly raise my knees or feet instead to keep my core straight.
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Did W3D1 yesterday -
While I was able to do 4 in the first set, each set thereafter I could only do three (4/3/3/3/3). Plan is to repeat W3D1 on Sunday since day W3D2 starts with 5 and day 3 starts with 6! At any rate, If I don't get through W3D1 a second time, I think I'll drop back a day to W2D3 for a deload day.2 -
mthwbrwn: I worry about this too, in reading ahead at future weeks' expectations. I've come across many "challenges" in the past that suggest things like "60 seconds plank yesterday? great, hold it for 2 minutes today and 4 minutes tomorrow," or "10 pushups yesterday? do 20 today!". Despite my misgivings, I just finished W1 of this challenge. Hopefully this new approach, quite different from my past training routine, is successful though.1
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I took an extra day off since my elbows were pretty sore yesterday. Repeated W3D1 The extra time helped since I was able to do 4/3/4/3/4 today.
@minorzwarpath - I've seen those 30 day challenges as well - The ones where you swing a kettlebell 40 times and overhead press 10x to start and by the end of 30 days the instruction is swing x300 (no sets given)- Umm, at what weight would that work?
Anyway, I really like this training with its three columns based off of testing and its reasonable? progression steps, but like any training program, two people will respond to stimuli differently. The 'weeks' are meaningless to me. They're more like stages.
If I fail to complete reps one day, I'll try it again (and maybe rest two days). If I fail 2x in a row I'll drop back one day. That worked really well when I was doing a squats 5x3 (years ago).
So far, my progression is such that I have only needed to repeat in order to move forward.0
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