Does myfitnesspal factor gender in "calories burned" from exercise?
Replies
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magnusthenerd wrote: »Gender is not irrelevant. I realize that muscle mass is not some magical man-thing. And I know how physics works.
I also know that ALL estimates of calories burned are ESTIMATES. Duh. And now I know that ALL estimates on this platform are based on men, and not on women. Yes, they are still estimates. And they are estimates that fail to account for half of the population. That means for ALL women on this platform, the estimates are less good than for ALL of the men. And yes, I believe that is a problem.
Male bodies are not the default. Men's data is not "good enough" for women, especially when it is falsely presented as "neutral". My source for the "10-30%" statistic is the book "Invisible Women: Data bias in a world designed for men", which has sources, but also does not go in depth about the specific numbers because (surprise!) those numbers are very hard to find unless you are a fitness researcher or a multi-million dollar fitness platform that has the resources to search them out.
My question was asking "how good is this data for the average women?" and it has been answered. The answer is: not very good at all. Thanks to everyone for the patronizing and mansplaining along the way.
Incorrect to bolded.
The exercise database is based on public METS database, which is based on studies with BOTH men and women included. You can pick an exercise, read the study, and see those facts.
Some types of exercise lend themselves to more or all male merely because of who would join the study.
https://sites.google.com/site/compendiumofphysicalactivities/references
Since the calorie burn values during the exercise studies is divided by their measured BMR (which is gender related) to arrive at METS, they are included in the bell curve where the avg value is chosen from.
So women did count in the resulting values. That are then converted to mass usage for this database and others.
Fitbit for example keeps the METS values and exercise (and daily step/distance activity) is per gender BMR.
And no, gender doesn't matter where moving mass is the key factor for calorie burn.
If a less muscular female of same weight as more muscular male doing some workout at same pace in endurance style - then the muscles being called on to work harder will likely burn more carbs for the female, more fat for the male - but calorie burn would be similar. The difference in efficiency (running, biking) would bigger factor than gender.
I think I see the intuit there but my understanding is the real world difference is men burn more carbs during exercise than women. Making matters even more confusing is the higher intra-workout carb burning of men means their EPOC is more fat burning for compensation. And of course, it ends up mattering next to nothing in terms of calories for losing weight.
Indeed at a common level of exertion (same VO2 level) (if I'm thinking of the same couple recent studies), women tend more towards higher % fat usage then men.
But same VO2 level between 2 people could be very different say bike speeds/watts.
But if you have more muscle sharing an exertion load compared to less muscle same load (and level of fitness training would enter the picture here too, but if equal) then more shared load means higher % fat burned.
That was my intent, all things being equal between workouts except amount of muscle because different gender - same fitness level (VO2max), same workout load (pace/speed not % VO2max used), ect.
I also found the spreadsheet with the info - difference in equal LBM, 5-10% variance accounting for LBM, but tested at the sedentary TDEE level, not BMR level I thought I recalled.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1522233
Which a later evaluation pegged on the differences in size of those organs between genders.
This later evaluation found no significant difference at the BMR level when accounting for differences in organ size (so gender to the point of many).
So the gender specific BMR and resulting METS values would be as many have stated - accounted for.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3139779/
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Justin_7272 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »
For those who I've recently been made to know may need additional explanation:
The phrase “on the rag” is a slang term for menstruation. This phrase likely originated sometime during the late 19th century. When a woman was menstruating, she was “on the rag,” a phrase that literally described the way women of the day managed their menstruation.OP wrote:Thanks to everyone for the patronizing and mansplaining along the way.
A man explaining what "on the rag" means might be mansplaining.
Definitely agree; I wouldn't dare use the phrase "on the rag" without expecting to be slapped. Note, though, OP used mansplaining far before that came in to play.
I'm a white middle-aged man. I realize I'm considered privileged in many ways. But to denigrate me based on my man parts ("mansplaining") is no better than to consider a female an inferior being based on her lady parts ("on the rag").
Both are wrong and I won't subscribe to either. OP received her answer, but came with an agenda.
That's why the mansplaining of "on the rag" was so funny. People were already being accused of it.
And I actually don't have a problem with euphemisms like that. It's the tone (that I deliberately used) that's wrong.
Tone is tricky in text, but I greatly appreciate the bump, set....
Some people just roam the world looking for an excuse to be outraged. The rest of us laugh and drink.13 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »What *I* want to know, is why doesn't MFP give me those ~30 extra calories I'll burn on my period??
You don't burn extra calories on your period. You burn them earlier in the month while your body is creating the blood to line your uterus. (OK, if you have cramps during your period, you may be burning a couple of calories for the muscle contractions.)
But don't you burn calories when donating blood? So isn't having your period sorta like giving blood?
Also, menopause is awesome because NO MORE PERIODS!
I'm almost 53. WHERE THE HECK IS MY MENOPAUSE???
"Lady troubles" TMI alert:Meanwhile, I have extremely heavy bleeding due to my large uterine fibroids and the volume of blood loss is sufficient for me to feel justified for using the Donate Blood cardio entry.
I was having good results with tranexemic acid to reduce the bleeding, but last month I was back up to losing @ 1200 ml (I have a menstrual cup and track emptying), which is the equivalent of donating blood several times. (I see 350 ml and 470 ml per donation on different sites.)12 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »What *I* want to know, is why doesn't MFP give me those ~30 extra calories I'll burn on my period??
You don't burn extra calories on your period. You burn them earlier in the month while your body is creating the blood to line your uterus. (OK, if you have cramps during your period, you may be burning a couple of calories for the muscle contractions.)
But don't you burn calories when donating blood? So isn't having your period sorta like giving blood?
Also, menopause is awesome because NO MORE PERIODS!
No. You burn calories after donating blood, when your body replaces the blood. Having your period is not like giving blood, because your body has already accounted for the extra blood that needed to be created to line the uterus. With menstruation, you make the calorie "payment" for the lost blood ahead of time. With blood donation, you make the calorie "payment" afterwards.7 -
Justin_7272 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »
For those who I've recently been made to know may need additional explanation:
The phrase “on the rag” is a slang term for menstruation. This phrase likely originated sometime during the late 19th century. When a woman was menstruating, she was “on the rag,” a phrase that literally described the way women of the day managed their menstruation.OP wrote:Thanks to everyone for the patronizing and mansplaining along the way.
A man explaining what "on the rag" means might be mansplaining.
Definitely agree; I wouldn't dare use the phrase "on the rag" without expecting to be slapped. Note, though, OP used mansplaining far before that came in to play.
I'm a white middle-aged man. I realize I'm considered privileged in many ways. But to denigrate me based on my man parts ("mansplaining") is no better than to consider a female an inferior being based on her lady parts ("on the rag").
Both are wrong and I won't subscribe to either. OP received her answer, but came with an agenda.
Man explaining to women what her own post already pointed out ....3 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »What *I* want to know, is why doesn't MFP give me those ~30 extra calories I'll burn on my period??
You don't burn extra calories on your period. You burn them earlier in the month while your body is creating the blood to line your uterus. (OK, if you have cramps during your period, you may be burning a couple of calories for the muscle contractions.)
But don't you burn calories when donating blood? So isn't having your period sorta like giving blood?
Also, menopause is awesome because NO MORE PERIODS!
No. You burn calories after donating blood, when your body replaces the blood. Having your period is not like giving blood, because your body has already accounted for the extra blood that needed to be created to line the uterus. With menstruation, you make the calorie "payment" for the lost blood ahead of time. With blood donation, you make the calorie "payment" afterwards.
It was a joke.
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kshama2001 wrote: »
For those who I've recently been made to know may need additional explanation:
The phrase “on the rag” is a slang term for menstruation. This phrase likely originated sometime during the late 19th century. When a woman was menstruating, she was “on the rag,” a phrase that literally described the way women of the day managed their menstruation.
It's currently a way to insinuate that women are being irrational or witchy due to menstruation, so I would not use it in polite conversation, or on MFP.
Is mansplaining better or worse than explaining a joke?
As an aside, I recall recently starting to tell a story about some mansplaining (and I am usually unlikely to see mansplaining and not a fan of the term, this was extreme) and a (male) co-working cutting in to explain how it was mansplaining to me and two female co-workers. He was well-meaning, but it was funny.
That said, this joke by CSARdriver was also very funny IMO.5 -
If a man eats a boiled egg and a woman eats exactly the same size boiled egg - is there a difference of calories in the boiled egg ingested? Does a man and a woman need exactly the same amount of energy to digest that egg? And what about the "third sex", the Man in the Moon and those little green people who visit at 3 a.m.? Questions, questions, questions. Better start doing my morning exercise...4
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »What *I* want to know, is why doesn't MFP give me those ~30 extra calories I'll burn on my period??
You don't burn extra calories on your period. You burn them earlier in the month while your body is creating the blood to line your uterus. (OK, if you have cramps during your period, you may be burning a couple of calories for the muscle contractions.)
But don't you burn calories when donating blood? So isn't having your period sorta like giving blood?
Also, menopause is awesome because NO MORE PERIODS!
No. You burn calories after donating blood, when your body replaces the blood. Having your period is not like giving blood, because your body has already accounted for the extra blood that needed to be created to line the uterus. With menstruation, you make the calorie "payment" for the lost blood ahead of time. With blood donation, you make the calorie "payment" afterwards.
It was a joke.
Given the bolded in the quote below, maybe she was just experimenting with grannysplaining?lynn_glenmont wrote: »
For those who I've recently been made to know may need additional explanation:
The phrase “on the rag” is a slang term for menstruation. This phrase likely originated sometime during the late 19th century. When a woman was menstruating, she was “on the rag,” a phrase that literally described the way women of the day managed their menstruation.OP wrote:Thanks to everyone for the patronizing and mansplaining along the way.
For those who may need additional explanation.
^^ Women explaining that the same work requires the same energy regardless of the gender of the person performing it is definitely not mansplaining.
A man explaining what "on the rag" means might be mansplaining.
Signed, Still Trying to Adjust to Thinking of Myself as a Little Old Lady4 -
neugebauer52 wrote: »If a man eats a boiled egg and a woman eats exactly the same size boiled egg - is there a difference of calories in the boiled egg ingested? Does a man and a woman need exactly the same amount of energy to digest that egg? And what about the "third sex", the Man in the Moon and those little green people who visit at 3 a.m.? Questions, questions, questions. Better start doing my morning exercise...
Women's food has a smaller TEF because less muscle mass, and smaller organs.
So unfair!
<where is that joke font when I really need it?>4 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »What *I* want to know, is why doesn't MFP give me those ~30 extra calories I'll burn on my period??
You don't burn extra calories on your period. You burn them earlier in the month while your body is creating the blood to line your uterus. (OK, if you have cramps during your period, you may be burning a couple of calories for the muscle contractions.)
But don't you burn calories when donating blood? So isn't having your period sorta like giving blood?
Also, menopause is awesome because NO MORE PERIODS!
No. You burn calories after donating blood, when your body replaces the blood. Having your period is not like giving blood, because your body has already accounted for the extra blood that needed to be created to line the uterus. With menstruation, you make the calorie "payment" for the lost blood ahead of time. With blood donation, you make the calorie "payment" afterwards.
It was a joke.
Given the bolded in the quote below, maybe she was just experimenting with grannysplaining?lynn_glenmont wrote: »
For those who I've recently been made to know may need additional explanation:
The phrase “on the rag” is a slang term for menstruation. This phrase likely originated sometime during the late 19th century. When a woman was menstruating, she was “on the rag,” a phrase that literally described the way women of the day managed their menstruation.OP wrote:Thanks to everyone for the patronizing and mansplaining along the way.
For those who may need additional explanation.
^^ Women explaining that the same work requires the same energy regardless of the gender of the person performing it is definitely not mansplaining.
A man explaining what "on the rag" means might be mansplaining.
Signed, Still Trying to Adjust to Thinking of Myself as a Little Old Lady
Grannysplaining is always legitimately informative. And is usually accompanied by baked goods.
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@AnnPT77 now that I think about it, you really should not be allowed to claim old granny or auntie advice status without the appropriate provision of low calorie vegetarian cookies to the group! And you should make then full fat and sugar when posting in the debate and gaining weight sections, and keto friendly fat bombs if in a low carb post 😉...5
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@AnnPT77 now that I think about it, you really should not be allowed to claim old granny or auntie advice status without the appropriate provision of low calorie vegetarian cookies to the group! (full fat and sugar when posting in the debate and gaining weight sections😉)
What? You didn't get your granny package, stuffed full with my momma's-recipe banana chocolate chip cookies?!? (The original recipe used lard, and I don't, plus I did cut the sugar a bit . . . so, relatively speaking, low calorie & vegetarian.)
Hmmm . . . is your mail carrier looking a little bit plump and happy?
ETA: Sending more, by the more-reliable virtual route. Check your browser's cookie repository.
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »What *I* want to know, is why doesn't MFP give me those ~30 extra calories I'll burn on my period??
You don't burn extra calories on your period. You burn them earlier in the month while your body is creating the blood to line your uterus. (OK, if you have cramps during your period, you may be burning a couple of calories for the muscle contractions.)
But don't you burn calories when donating blood? So isn't having your period sorta like giving blood?
Also, menopause is awesome because NO MORE PERIODS!
No. You burn calories after donating blood, when your body replaces the blood. Having your period is not like giving blood, because your body has already accounted for the extra blood that needed to be created to line the uterus. With menstruation, you make the calorie "payment" for the lost blood ahead of time. With blood donation, you make the calorie "payment" afterwards.
It was a joke.
As has been noted, tone is difficult in text. And I have seen the exact idea you expressed, in nearly the same words, stated seriously.2 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »What *I* want to know, is why doesn't MFP give me those ~30 extra calories I'll burn on my period??
You don't burn extra calories on your period. You burn them earlier in the month while your body is creating the blood to line your uterus. (OK, if you have cramps during your period, you may be burning a couple of calories for the muscle contractions.)
But don't you burn calories when donating blood? So isn't having your period sorta like giving blood?
Also, menopause is awesome because NO MORE PERIODS!
No. You burn calories after donating blood, when your body replaces the blood. Having your period is not like giving blood, because your body has already accounted for the extra blood that needed to be created to line the uterus. With menstruation, you make the calorie "payment" for the lost blood ahead of time. With blood donation, you make the calorie "payment" afterwards.
It was a joke.
As has been noted, tone is difficult in text. And I have seen the exact idea you expressed, in nearly the same words, stated seriously.
Yup but I kind of thought the smile gave it being a joke away.
Wait, people have posted about period blood burning calories??
I was thinking more about the donating blood part since there have been quite a few threads about that over the years.4 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »What *I* want to know, is why doesn't MFP give me those ~30 extra calories I'll burn on my period??
You don't burn extra calories on your period. You burn them earlier in the month while your body is creating the blood to line your uterus. (OK, if you have cramps during your period, you may be burning a couple of calories for the muscle contractions.)
But don't you burn calories when donating blood? So isn't having your period sorta like giving blood?
Also, menopause is awesome because NO MORE PERIODS!
No. You burn calories after donating blood, when your body replaces the blood. Having your period is not like giving blood, because your body has already accounted for the extra blood that needed to be created to line the uterus. With menstruation, you make the calorie "payment" for the lost blood ahead of time. With blood donation, you make the calorie "payment" afterwards.
It was a joke.
As has been noted, tone is difficult in text. And I have seen the exact idea you expressed, in nearly the same words, stated seriously.
Yup but I kind of thought the smile gave it being a joke away.
Sorry. I see so many smiley faces and lols on things that don't seem remotely funny to me that I tend to discount them as textual throat clearings, "uhs," and "likes."Wait, people have posted about period blood burning calories??
I was thinking more about the donating blood part since there have been quite a few threads about that over the years.
Well, I haven't kept a log, but my sense is that I've seen a lot more menstrual-flow-burns-calories posts than blood-donation-burns-calories posts in my time on these boards. You're probably right on threads (rather than posts).
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