Are you Keto and vegan?

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Replies

  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,427 MFP Moderator
    banshee925 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    banshee925 wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »
    Choose one or the other. While it is not impossible, they are very difficult to do in conjunction with each other, and foods that fit naturally well in a ketogenic tend to be meat and cheeses. Vegan foods on the other hands tend to be higher in carbs. Are there certain vegan foods that are Keto-friendly? Sure. But can you get enough calories, proper macro and micro-nutrients, and enough variety to want to eat it long term if you combine both? Unlikely.

    And just because there is a documentary on Netflix, doesn't mean you should accept it as the truth. Plant-based diets do have some benefits with them, but the movie was a movie was also fairly biased and inaccurate: https://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/a29067926/the-game-changers-movie-fact-check/.

    If you truly believe Keto will help you with your medical condition, I would focus on that. It is hard enough to stick to without making things 10x harder for yourself by trying to go vegan as well.

    All my keto meal plans are already planned out by professionals, I just chose which meal plans to follow and there is the option to choose vegan plans too. Isn’t it trial and error with any lifestyle change or diet to see if we can live with it? 😊
    Tedebearduff wrote: »
    capnrus789 wrote: »
    banshee925 wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    banshee925 wrote: »
    I use keto for medical reasons and the food plan options are vegan too so they must be compatible.

    I was watch a documentary on the health benefits of going vegan. The scientific evidence of how much better it is for strengthening, energy and the digestive system.

    Which documentary?

    The game changers

    Go listen to the Joe Rogan Podcast, the recent show with Chris Kresser. Go in with an open mind and try to limit any self serving bias you may have. A vegan-keto diet is going to be very restrictive and difficult to follow, and may ultimately be harmful to your long term health if you're not very, very careful.

    Would like to second this, the Game Changers is a movie not really a documentary there are lots of articles out now that debunk everything they go on about. The information they choose to show is all cherry picked data.

    Nate lost allot before he won so to say he won cause he was vegan what about his 9 previous losses?

    Spartans where prisoners of war forced to fight, fed vegetables cause it was cheap (throw a prisoner a yam is easier then making them a steak, and then why make a prisoner a steak) Their previous diet would be unknown but most likely contain meat.

    Strongman guy is no one in the industry of importance outside of his local shows.

    Blood tests done at optimal timing to support their agenda, the reverse can be done on vegans, feed them grapes do some blood work show the insulin spike and then go on about how being vegan will lead to diabetes.
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    banshee925 wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    banshee925 wrote: »
    I use keto for medical reasons and the food plan options are vegan too so they must be compatible.

    I was watch a documentary on the health benefits of going vegan. The scientific evidence of how much better it is for strengthening, energy and the digestive system.

    Which documentary?

    The game changers

    That's not a documentary, in the sense of providing balanced, scientifically accurate information. It's an advocacy film whose famous producers have financial interests in companies that sell vegan products. Think it over.

    And I say that as someone who's been a vegetarian for 45 years, and an athlete for 15+ years, not as a shill for Big Meat.

    Vegan eating can be very healthful. Keto eating can be healthful. They're very challenging, but not impossible, to combine.

    A good evidence-based source for special nutritional considerations for veganism, since that's the part that appears to be new for you, is this one:

    https://veganhealth.org/

    Best wishes!

    Thanks I will have a read of that 😊
    xxzenabxx wrote: »
    I’m sorry but I wouldn’t risk my health for a documentary. If Keto is working then continue eating meat. Also being plant based is seriously flawed because I’m South Asian, and you should see how burnt the Indian labourers hands get just to get out cashews! It’s sooooo unethical! Also don’t get me started on cocoa farmers from African countries who have never tasted the chocolate that they grow? There’s flaws in the meat industry, the dairy and other food industries. Just to grown one almond in California uses up so much water where there is already a shortage. It’s about being ethical vs non ethical. The rest is up to you.

    I’m not risking my health at all 😂
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Another good piece on The Game Changers: https://www.biolayne.com/articles/research/the-game-changers-review-a-scientific-analysis/

    The vegan nutrition site linked by Ann above is an excellent one, and here's another: https://www.theveganrd.com/

    Worth noting that although the Game Changers movie didn't focus on fat content, most of the so-called medical experts it apparently cited and relied on promote relatively low fat diets -- this includes Dean Ornish, and Caldwell Esselstyn (http://www.dresselstyn.com/site/plant-based-nutrition/),

    All this information is great thanks for your replies😊

    I am looking into it, it’s an option I can take it or leave it, I love meat and cheese dairy but if it has enough positives for my health and the planet then I may give it a go.

    Also I don’t believe everything I see on tv or read online, I’m not stupid. I’m open minded and interested in educating myself always.

    I am far from vegan but i am keto and love veggies. If you want, you can certainly be healthy with either or both lifestyles as long as you are getting the nutrition you need. And if you love meat and cheese (perfect for keto) there is no reason not to incorporate them into your diet. And based on my experience, its difficult to sustain diets through removal of foods you love.

    What i would recommend is slowly moving away from meats and trying more plant based meals until learn how to incorporate various protein (amino acid) profiles and can get adequate protein levels (1.5-2.2g/kg).

    I personally couldn't hit the protein levels required going vegan and keto. Heck, it can be a struggle to hit them sometimes while being regular keto. But i am also looking to sustain or gain some muscle while cutting and most veggie proteins are inferior as it relates to leucine levels (main driver for muscle protein synthesis). And given the studies i have seen showing benefits of dairy and meats for muscle, i plan to stick with it.

    I will note, i do eat a lot of avocados (almost one daily), frequently consume nuts/seed (macadamia, walnuts, hazelnut, etc..) and try to get salad a few times a week.

    Overall, if you reduce/cut out added sugar and omega 6 fatty (especially processed oils/dressing), and have an overall wholesome diet, you will be in a good position to improve metabolic health markers.

    Thanks that’s really helpful 👍

    I’m already zero sugar and less than 5% carbs which I get from vegetables mainly. I too have an avocado a day at least.
    I make everything from fresh including my sauces.
    Everything is measured and macros perfectly balanced to try to get the best results.

    I’m now thinking to just incorporate some of the vegan dishes at a later date in my meal plans and see how I get on with less meat 😊

    How do your carbs and protein look in terms of grams?
  • LIFOtheparty
    LIFOtheparty Posts: 24 Member
    Have you considered going vegetarian first? This would allow you to still eat eggs and dairy, which are still low carb, but have a good amount of protein and fat.
  • qwebster01
    qwebster01 Posts: 22 Member
    try one, then when you get used to it, add in the other. consult a nutritionist.
  • BoxerBrawler
    BoxerBrawler Posts: 2,032 Member
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    BoxerBrawler wrote: »
    xxzenabxx wrote: »
    I’m sorry but I wouldn’t risk my health for a documentary. If Keto is working then continue eating meat. Also being plant based is seriously flawed because I’m South Asian, and you should see how burnt the Indian labourers hands get just to get out cashews! It’s sooooo unethical! Also don’t get me started on cocoa farmers from African countries who have never tasted the chocolate that they grow? There’s flaws in the meat industry, the dairy and other food industries. Just to grown one almond in California uses up so much water where there is already a shortage. It’s about being ethical vs non ethical. The rest is up to you.

    How can one possibly compare harvesting cashews, cocoa beans and almonds to slaughtering a sentient living breathing being?

    With the cashew example, the poster was talking about how cashew harvesting hurts the workers, not the cashews :)

    I don't buy conventionally raised pork, and even if I did, I wouldn't buy it from Smithfield, because of how they abuse their employees.

    Got ya! Thanks for the clarification!
    My only thing with all of that is while I definitely feel for the human aspect I really truly only care about the animals, who have no voice and who are horribly abused :(

  • BoxerBrawler
    BoxerBrawler Posts: 2,032 Member
    Just go 100% vegan and don't look back. All of your requirements will be met and you'll be healthier than ever!
  • pjwrt
    pjwrt Posts: 166 Member
    banshee925 wrote: »
    Wait now stop...

    1. I am not asking for advice regarding my medical condition or it vs keto. Keto works perfectly for my medical health and medical professionals have monitored this but thank you.

    2. The question is what is your experience with being vegan while in a keto diet ?

    Murder your television.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,427 MFP Moderator
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    BoxerBrawler wrote: »
    Just go 100% vegan and don't look back. All of your requirements will be met and you'll be healthier than ever!

    While I applaud ethical vegans, I find vegan puffery irresponsible and in some cases, dangerous.

    1. You made no mention of the need for vegans to supplement with B12.
    2. The OP already said she is treating a medical condition with the keto diet, and you did not acknowledge this.
    3. I myself became dangerously anemic while living in a vegetarian community with vegan cooks.
    4. The foods in this link are all vegan, but a diet revolving around them would not make someone "healthier than ever": https://www.peta.org/living/food/top-accidentally-vegan-foods/

    I just find it ironic that one can suggest a diet is optimal when it needs some kind of fortification or supplementation. That alone would suggest its incomplete.

    To each their own and i am glad people are going find their own journey.
  • JRsLateInLifeMom
    JRsLateInLifeMom Posts: 2,275 Member
    Vegan Keto it’s called yes can be done hun.
    https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vegan-keto-diet

    Found some links hope it helps hun.

    https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/326729.php

    Good luck with your dieting.
  • JRsLateInLifeMom
    JRsLateInLifeMom Posts: 2,275 Member
    My Daughter is Pescatarian in the Navy ...No she didn’t chose the Navy to get freasher fish lol. She’s naturally only likes fish y vegan options she’s healthy but has an active lifestyle a well balanced meal approaches.
    More than one Vegan or Vegetarian option first figure out what you eat well for your health condition add what you would like to add to that see which fits it for you.
    I got my Dads side the meat eaters (in his 60’s) /Mom (died awhile back in her 70’s ate meat after marrying Dad) was Vegetarian y Vegan family members. Her oldest sister fully Vegan is in her 90’s now her husband too .
    Decide strict Vegetarian,Vegan,or regular Keto if you feel the one you choose doesn’t fit you try another.

    Smart to research before hand. I’m on a freash food diet with Keto. Most natural the better from natural grains to meats for me. Took awhile to find what works for me. Everyone in my household has their own diet plans since none are 1 size fits all got to be tailored to you.

    Some soy meats are high in sodium so read labels.
  • JRsLateInLifeMom
    JRsLateInLifeMom Posts: 2,275 Member
    Zucchini noodles- I use a hand one turn turn turn crack the old knuckles turn turn turn lol. I like them fresh then in a frying pan with Pam spray heats up so quick ready to go put the sauce on y anything you want. I love that!

    Amazon to a few book stores have vegan keto cook books web has recipes.

    https://www.delish.com/cooking/g4837/vegan-keto-recipes/
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    BoxerBrawler wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    BoxerBrawler wrote: »
    xxzenabxx wrote: »
    I’m sorry but I wouldn’t risk my health for a documentary. If Keto is working then continue eating meat. Also being plant based is seriously flawed because I’m South Asian, and you should see how burnt the Indian labourers hands get just to get out cashews! It’s sooooo unethical! Also don’t get me started on cocoa farmers from African countries who have never tasted the chocolate that they grow? There’s flaws in the meat industry, the dairy and other food industries. Just to grown one almond in California uses up so much water where there is already a shortage. It’s about being ethical vs non ethical. The rest is up to you.

    How can one possibly compare harvesting cashews, cocoa beans and almonds to slaughtering a sentient living breathing being?

    With the cashew example, the poster was talking about how cashew harvesting hurts the workers, not the cashews :)

    I don't buy conventionally raised pork, and even if I did, I wouldn't buy it from Smithfield, because of how they abuse their employees.

    Got ya! Thanks for the clarification!
    My only thing with all of that is while I definitely feel for the human aspect I really truly only care about the animals, who have no voice and who are horribly abused :(

    That's pretty awful. It's as though you're going out of your way to fuel all the worst vegan stereotypes held by omnivores. Some people live in situations where their choice is to work on the farms owned by someone else, at the wages they set, under whatever dangerous conditions they set, inhaling whatever toxins or carcinogens the landowner chooses to use, or to starve.

    Because the picture you're painting is pretty medieval, I just wanted to point out for others (as I'm sure you already know this) that farm worker abuse takes place in the US: https://www.cnn.com/2017/05/30/world/ciw-fair-food-program-freedom-project/index.html
  • aokoye
    aokoye Posts: 3,495 Member
    edited November 2019
    banshee925 wrote: »
    capnrus789 wrote: »
    banshee925 wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    banshee925 wrote: »
    I use keto for medical reasons and the food plan options are vegan too so they must be compatible.

    I was watch a documentary on the health benefits of going vegan. The scientific evidence of how much better it is for strengthening, energy and the digestive system.

    Which documentary?

    The game changers

    Go listen to the Joe Rogan Podcast, the recent show with Chris Kresser. Go in with an open mind and try to limit any self serving bias you may have. A vegan-keto diet is going to be very restrictive and difficult to follow, and may ultimately be harmful to your long term health if you're not very, very careful.

    Thank you 😊

    I’m very open minded and love meat so looking into this thoroughly before trying it, but if I do go down that path I’ll be using professional guidance on my meal plans.

    This is pretty much the antithesis of what you said earlier when you said that you essentially didn't want to/were unwilling to see an RD (which said post below also contradicts):
    1. I am not asking for advice regarding my medical condition or it vs keto. Keto works perfectly for my medical health and medical professionals have monitored this but thank you.

    Using professional guidance, in this case, means seeking and following the advice of an RD who is has a lot of experience and/or is trained in working with populations with your condition(s) as well as consulting with your doctors.

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