What do all of you do ...?
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It's also possible that (#3) you simply burn slightly fewer calories than the number that "calculators" spit out, too, unfortunately, though I wouldn't leap to that assumption too quickly. Keep in mind that they give you an estimate of the population average for your demographics, more or less, but that in reality not everyone is exactly average. Same thing can happen with "fitness tracker" calorie estimates (mine is way wrong, as is MFP).
Anecdotally (which is a big word for "I can't prove it"
), some people seem more inclined to subtle activity down-regulation at reduced calories, so that maintenance calories can gradually be increased to find the beneficial level, i.e., increase will trigger up-regulation. Also, keep in mind that daily life activity matters (and is where some of the controllable side of activity up/down-regulation happens), so that there can be maintenance-calorie benefits by consciously trying to be more active in routine daily life.
None of the above should be taken to be disputing the part I bolded in your post. I think that's 100% the right strategy.
BTW, I'm a very uneven eater, consistent most days but quite indulge-y occasionally. I do calorie bank, but experience suggests that going way over my maintenance calories occasionally has less scale-weight impact (after the water/digestive-contents scale jump drops off) than I would've expected from the calorie intake. Perhaps there are absorption limits in a body that's not used to it? Dunno. This is not an approach I'd recommend, but you did ask what others do!
If I start getting a little heavier than I'd like, regardless of how, I need to stick to my slight-deficit routine daily goal more often, and rein in the indulge-y days a bit, and weight will start creeping slowly down again. (I'm just about to start into year 5 of maintenance, BTW, BMI 22-point-something this morning).
Thanks so much. I found your post very thought-provoking and helpful - I've been thinking about it a lot and wanting to respond properly.
I've essentially been in maintenance around three months now - the last few months of weight loss, I had deliberately slowed things down a lot to try to make transition easier and in the last month I was essentially eating at maintenance...
If there's one thing I'm 'struggling' with, it's the fact that during weight loss, I was really strict with myself and pretty much never went over my daily calorie budget on more than a handful of occasions... Now that I'm in maintenance, I have to really force myself not to sweat the occasional overs and actually even force myself to deliberately go over now and then so that it doesn't become a 'thing'. During weight loss, I'd plan things out - put exercise calories in the bank early in the day if I knew I was eating a lot that day... If I accidentally went over, I'd just go on a walk or do a small amount of zumba to put myself back within budget.
When I first went into maintenance, I had the same very strong urge to always stay within budget so now I really have to force myself to let myself go over a little bit and say it will come out in the weekly total - which it always does. I don't want to feel like I have to remain within budget every single day.
There is something deceptively precise (and comforting) about the calorie counting but when I think about it, it's still incredibly fuzzy no matter how diligent I try to be.
For instance, this comment of yours made me think quite hard:
Also, keep in mind that daily life activity matters (and is where some of the controllable side of activity up/down-regulation happens), so that there can be maintenance-calorie benefits by consciously trying to be more active in routine daily life.
I log my food quite diligently and I log time activities fairly diligently, but there are a bunch of additional activities where the calories aren't logged:
- I work on the third floor and always take the stairs these days - and might walk up an extra flight if I have time
- I make sure when my garmin buzzes, I get up and make a cup of tea or coffee - but walk to the kitchen above or below my floor, just to move a bit more
- sometimes if I get back to my desk after a timed activity and I forget to "turn off" my garmin, I'll look down and it's recorded for too long and so I write off a bunch of those calories burned because eg out of 60 minutes, only half was walking, the other half was me sitting at my desk having forgotten to turn off the timed activity.
Anyway, sorry for rambling. The whole weight loss / fitness journey has been very ... eye-opening.4 -
I am only a month in to my actual desired maintenance, but have taken maintenance breaks fairly regularly throughout my weight loss journey.
For me, I find it useful to have my calories set just slightly under maintenance, only by about 50 calories or so, as this gives me a bit more wiggle room. Following the trend of net calories as opposed to daily allowances is more indicative of your energy balance and I have had much more success (plus considerably reduced food anxiety) since paying attention to that. Typically, I eat less in the work week and then eat quite a lot at the weekend. That isn't intentional, it's just how it goes due to time and social events etc. The small bank of calories accumulated weekly means I don't need to worry about calories when it comes to special occasions.
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Month four of maintenance and still maintaining. I am still logging diligently but have to say that the endless work Christmas parties are proving a bit of a strain simply because I find it a little harder to log accurately at such events. It sounds silly but first of all there's the pressure of having to maintain conversations with work people - some of whom are strangers, some are my bosses and not really being able to pause and log/take a photo of food. So I've doing a lot more guesstimating than usual after the event to record what I've eaten.
As well as daily, I'm keeping track of my weekly total and that has been a really good thing to do but I am still really struggling to resist the urge to eg. not to exercise on the rare occasions I exceed my daily calorie budget. I KNOW that:
1. one day isn't going to do much damage
2. I have a 'cushion' because overall, I've got 'spare' calories across the week
But I think the weight loss period discipline I had of always staying within my daily calorie budget is still quite strong.6 -
koalathebear wrote: »but have to say that the endless work Christmas parties are proving a bit of a strain simply because I find it a little harder to log accurately at such events.
I have to admit that the only time I weighed less on January 4-8 as compared to December 17-21 was the 12 months during which I created an average deficit of 695Cal a day.
Every year, like clockwork, I tend to trend up, and then trend slowly down between January and April, usually fully catching up to where I was by the early March to late April time frame. And it is not surprising given the amount of social get togethers and events that tend to crowd into the time period serving as a delivery mechanism for novel and hyper-palatable food (and drinks if so inclined)!
While the weight-trend increase is much smaller, the scale increase from minimum to maximum in the time frame seems to be just shy of 5lbs for me! And by the looks of it most of it real and reflected in my logging overages
To a point you raised above, I definitely do find that if I have been consuming relatively more NET calories what Fitbit defines as my 'resting' heart rate elevates as compared to when my net calories are lower. Same applies to nails growing faster vs slower, and noticeably so for me, depending on relative net calories. Which to me clearly points out to change in the involuntary component of NEAT.2 -
To your original question, I tend to write off the previous day and continue on with the normal plan.
With two, to my mind small, caveats.
If I don't feel like eating early the next day, I don't do so. So I often have my "breakfast" later. BUT, if I also find myself not eating anything till later in the day, I will usually have something small even if I am not yet "feeling it". It has been my observation that waiting too long the next day tends to lead to too many cookies when I am finally "hungry" again--so I short-circuit that.
If I have a large overage--in the 33%+ of TDEE range for me, I just might push say 7 to 15% of my TDEE to my next day's "just after midnight" section as a "warning" to not overdo things.
This falls into the category of "mind-games"; but, I am perpetually set to ~-200-300 on MFP, and habitually go over because I am "anti-allowing red to rule me"
By pushing 200-450 Cal to the next day I become slightly more budget conscious the next day. You see I am normally fairly unthinking and don't pre-plan much other than checking my budget and choosing "less caloric more filling go-tos" or "hey let's go crazy the sky's the limit" options while deciding on my next meal.
So if the budget shows the sky's the limit... I might crack open a chocolate bar while staring at the fridge and pantry trying to decide what to put together to eat, and I've certainly done that more than once! If the budget is tighter... I might have an apple or crack open a 0% yogurt and add some all bran for just about the same amount of calories but much higher food volume instead.
All this to say, I guess, that the next day after an overage I tend to both naturally and on purpose try to stick closer to my goals than otherwise <unless, as mentioned above I am hit by a series of events in a row>
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I hit my weekly goal except for Thanksgiving and Christmas week (typically). I've been logging 6 years. I find I'm not hungry the next day if I'm more than a hundred calories over. So I listen to my body.3
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pyrusangeles wrote: »I have my calorie goal set slightly below my true maintenance. This gives me a general guideline to follow on most days, and it allows me to have a day or two each week where I indulge a bit without actively counterbalancing the overage. If I haven't had a reason to indulge and I get extra hungry, I know it's ok to have more. At this point I can feel intuitively when I need more or less calories. My weight fluctuates within about 3 lbs and has been for about six months now.
This is exactly what I've been doing. I like the system a lot!
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It's also been liberating for me to stop tracking exercise calories and go to the TDEE method instead. I basically took 6 weeks of my data, saw how much I had lost over each week and how much my average weekly deficit was, and figured out by TDEE for that period from this information. I manually set my calories to that goal in MFP (VERY SLIGHTLY under this number, to account for occasional over-calories-days) and have been pretty much maintaining for 6 months. Well, losing very very very slowly because I don't have as many over-calories-days as I expect.
It's nice and comfortable to always try to hit one number, rather than hit a moving target when trying to account for varying levels of exercise. This works best if you have a very predictable level of activity (I work out purposefully for only 15 min every MWF, and the rest of my activity is NEAT-based, walks to work, taking the stairs, etc). Do you think that trying to hit one number might help you better predict when you can go over calories, and make you feel better about not trying to "make up for it" the next day?6 -
To your original question, I tend to write off the previous day and continue on with the normal plan.
With two, to my mind small, caveats.
If I don't feel like eating early the next day, I don't do so. So I often have my "breakfast" later. BUT, if I also find myself not eating anything till later in the day, I will usually have something small even if I am not yet "feeling it". It has been my observation that waiting too long the next day tends to lead to too many cookies when I am finally "hungry" again--so I short-circuit that.
If I have a large overage--in the 33%+ of TDEE range for me, I just might push say 7 to 15% of my TDEE to my next day's "just after midnight" section as a "warning" to not overdo things.
This falls into the category of "mind-games"; but, I am perpetually set to ~-200-300 on MFP, and habitually go over because I am "anti-allowing red to rule me"
By pushing 200-450 Cal to the next day I become slightly more budget conscious the next day. You see I am normally fairly unthinking and don't pre-plan much other than checking my budget and choosing "less caloric more filling go-tos" or "hey let's go crazy the sky's the limit" options while deciding on my next meal.
So if the budget shows the sky's the limit... I might crack open a chocolate bar while staring at the fridge and pantry trying to decide what to put together to eat, and I've certainly done that more than once! If the budget is tighter... I might have an apple or crack open a 0% yogurt and add some all bran for just about the same amount of calories but much higher food volume instead.
All this to say, I guess, that the next day after an overage I tend to both naturally and on purpose try to stick closer to my goals than otherwise <unless, as mentioned above I am hit by a series of events in a row>
I think this is really brilliant. While PAV's exact personal tricks might not work for everyone, this idea of figuring out what works for us individually - how to "game" our own individual psychology and inclinations - is really powerful, IMO. (And most of us want to do that without slipping into anything precariously obsessive or compulsive, besides. ).
It takes some time to figure this stuff out, IME (talking months to years, not days to weeks), but it's really valuable.
I use the "see how I feel the next day" idea after a significantly over-goal day, calorie bank, try to recognize true special occasions (or very occasional "special license") rather than letting there be a start on everyday calorie creep, among other things. (I'm nearly to year 5 of maintenance, and still BMII 22-point-something.)
Very recently, I'm feeling better agency over my own hedonic tendencies (the reason I calorie bank in the first place!
), which I assume has a component of hormonal settling, but I experience it as a disinclination to just keep going way far, in the face of yumminess; and a clearer view of valuing my future self's needs to be a healthy weight in order to have the best possible life.
I don't believe in "make up for it" thinking, for myself: It seems like a "sin and expiation" model of eating, for me. We need to eat, and I want to enjoy eating, not turn it into it a source of guilt or shame.
As always, others may differ . . . !6 -
The calorie banking thing has become a pretty motivating reason for me to do exercise in the morning before work.
I do a fairly energetic hour or so of Zumba every morning - using youtube haha. Combined with my default calorie budget, it gives me a pretty decent budget and I enter my breakfast and lunch (if I already know what I'm having) and so I have pretty good idea of what I have left to play with for snacks and dinner. Plus if I can get in a short morning walk or lunch walk during the work day, that boosts the budget. I have sometimes (but do not enjoy), being in debt in the morning because I don't get to my exercise until the evening... My preference is definitely to have a good bank balance in the morning and then work from that.
I have to say that I'm finding this month with all the Christmas treats/baking and extra meals with family and friends challenging. My weight has fluctuated in the last month between 54.6kg to 56kg. It doesn't go above 56 thankfully. I'm not being too hard on myself this month because I know that with all the family dinners and food etc, even though I'm tracking - I'm eating more than I usually do even though I'm offsetting with exercise. I'm just keeping an eye on things to make sure I don't go above 56 and then I guess post-Christmas I'll go back to eating less.4 -
So ... I managed to get back on track after the slight but entirely expected and predicted deviation in December during the holiday season...
Alas, as many people would know, Australia's currently being devastated by horrific bushfires. I'm in Canberra and although (given that we are not in the firezone) what we are experiencing is in no way near as awful as the people who have lost their homes and indeed their lives - Canberra is getting the smoke.
As an illustration, from being one of the loveliest, least polluted and cleanest cities around, we now have the worst air quality in the world:
If you look at this this website, you'll see that with a hazard level of 5696 in some areas (200 being the point at which air quality is considered hazardous), many parts of Canberra are 28 times the hazard level ...
Government is recommending we all stay inside, problem is Aussie homes are frequently really badly insulated so inside is still very smoky - eg, our house (when unfiltered) had air quality levels of 500+ ... P2 masks are sort of helpful but not really if you read what the Government says here ...
Exercise is a no-no because all the gyms are smoky, our houses are smoky, outside is smoky (no walking the dog)... I pretty much can't afford to do anything right now that will exert me ... So I have to stick within my calorie budget unboosted by exercise ... I'm not sure how long the smoke will last ... The bushfires will be with us for a long time... My fitness woes are nothing compared to the bigger problems out there - but they do present a challenge to maintenance for me.20 -
koalathebear wrote: »So ... I managed to get back on track after the slight but entirely expected and predicted deviation in December during the holiday season...
Alas, as many people would know, Australia's currently being devastated by horrific bushfires. I'm in Canberra and although (given that we are not in the firezone) what we are experiencing is in no way near as awful as the people who have lost their homes and indeed their lives - Canberra is getting the smoke.
As an illustration, from being one of the loveliest, least polluted and cleanest cities around, we now have the worst air quality in the world:
If you look at this this website, you'll see that with a hazard level of 5696 in some areas (200 being the point at which air quality is considered hazardous), many parts of Canberra are 28 times the hazard level ...
Government is recommending we all stay inside, problem is Aussie homes are frequently really badly insulated so inside is still very smoky - eg, our house (when unfiltered) had air quality levels of 500+ ... P2 masks are sort of helpful but not really if you read what the Government says here ...
Exercise is a no-no because all the gyms are smoky, our houses are smoky, outside is smoky (no walking the dog)... I pretty much can't afford to do anything right now that will exert me ... So I have to stick within my calorie budget unboosted by exercise ... I'm not sure how long the smoke will last ... The bushfires will be with us for a long time... My fitness woes are nothing compared to the bigger problems out there - but they do present a challenge to maintenance for me.
You have my complete sympathy and best wishes for a speedy improvement in air quality and danger abatement to you and your countrymen. Getting outside for exercise and fresh air is a dependable stress reducer, so it really is a double whammy to have that option off the table during a stressful time. Hang in there. Stay safe.1 -
@koalathebear I lived in the SF Bay Area about a decade ago when there were fires, not with us but near enough that the skies were hazy and everything smelled smoky. You and your countrymen have my absolute sympathy!
Stay safe, do what you need to do to stay well (physically and mentally), and please do report back regularly - want to be sure you're okay!!1 -
I don't decrease my calories the day after I exceed my calorie budget because the contrast between overindulging and a deficit makes me feel deprived. I find it easier for my mental health to go back to maintenance. It's not like I go supercrazy when I go over my budget.
Last time I went over my calories was on New Year's Eve and on Jan 1st I just went back to eating normal. It put mental distance from the overindulging. On Jan 2nd I had already put the guilt behind, but if I had restricted on the 1st to compensate for the overeating on Dec 31st, on Jan 2nd my mind would have still been fixating on the "damage" I did on Dec 31st.
Of course this is something I did because it was one day of overeating among lots of days of normal eating. It's like a drop in a glass of water. If I were to go over my budget several times in a week or several days in a row, I don't think it would work. Going over budget by 500 or even 1,000 cals once in a while is not going to do much harm if it's an isolated event and not a frequent occurrence.5 -
Bushfire season is done (for now) thankfully so the good air is back, so we can go back to exercising again like usual - which is a relief.
I've switched myself on MFP back to weight loss mode though. I know a lot of people say that the "If every day were like today... You'd weigh x kg in 5 weeks" is useless but I have always found it quite helpful /early earning to tell me if a particular day was good or not. I still want to log my weight every week but the problem is maintenance mode seems to want to maintain you at whatever the current weight is in MFP even if it's not the weight you actually want to maintain eg my maintenance weight is around 54.6 kg. My weight has fluctuated since maintenance started going up to as high as 57kg over the holiday season and when I went to the coast with family and friends and ate more - and then popping back down again when I returned to normal habits, but if I am on maintenance mode in MFP, it will try to maintain me at 57kg, which isn't what I want.
I've also learned that while exercise is really good at boosting my exercise calories so that I can maintain a deficit through exercise, it only works to a point. Ultimately my body is more inclined to drop weight from a calorie deficit through cutting food intake rather than exercising more. By way of example, if I eat over 2,000 calories a day, even if I do a tonne of exercise, I will still gain weight/not drop weight.
Whereas even if I don't do exercise, but eat calories within the 1200 - 1400 range, then I will drop weight.3
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