What *ACTUALLY* boosts metabolism
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psychod787 wrote: »candylilacs wrote: »Why are you trying to convey "Tiny numbers"? Is it the hill you want to die on?Tiny numbers. At best. Not worth the time and energy to research, buy, consume, unless they're foods you want to eat in quantities you want to eat anyway.
The overwhelming majority can see on this board is this "Sure, AnnPT, while she's quite oblivious and she's wrong anyway, and you're right! N.E.A.T. variations and normal RMR/BMR! You're a cute grandma!" You're the in-crowd, and mine is the out-crowd.
I'm not in favor of food scales, BMR/RMR/NEAT (I don't know what's that means), but I do know that the body is taking too much of your time.
<snip for reply brevity>
Ms. Anne has <snip> Lost over 70lbs and kept it off for 5 years I believe.
<snip>
Only about 50 pounds, but getting close to 5 years now, total. Started losing in early 2015, joined MFP mid-2015. Hit current weight in late 2015, will start 5th year of maintenance in 2020.
Truth in advertising, y'know. :drinker:17 -
I have lost over 70 pounds and kept it off for about five years. I know about the diet industry. ✌🏼3
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eat more often throughout the day, drink water, move more, strength train so you burn more calories. Eating at a deficit and being sedentary is a recipe for having to eat at 1200 calories forever. .which no one can do.2
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elisa123gal wrote: »eat more often throughout the day, drink water, move more, strength train so you burn more calories. Eating at a deficit and being sedentary is a recipe for having to eat at 1200 calories forever. .which no one can do.
Eating more often and drinking more water have no impact on metabolism. That is incorrect information.12 -
candylilacs wrote: »I have lost over 70 pounds and kept it off for about five years. I know about the diet industry. ✌🏼
I have lost over 75lbs and kept it off for about five years. I know about the diet industry and how the body actually works, but still learn new stuff every day. Especially when it comes to unproven products, methods or 'science' being promoted as miraculous fact.
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snickerscharlie wrote: »candylilacs wrote: »I have lost over 70 pounds and kept it off for about five years. I know about the diet industry. ✌🏼
I have lost over 75lbs and kept it off for about five years. I know about the diet industry and how the body actually works, but still learn new stuff every day. Especially when it comes to unproven products, methods or 'science' being promoted as miraculous fact.
This^^^there is always something new to learn. There are no in crowd and out crowd--there are knowlegable posters and others, not so much.9 -
Define knowledgable posters. They think like you do?5
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candylilacs wrote: »Define knowledgable posters. They think like you do?
Not necessarily. I've been here for 6 years and have seen many come and go. After all this time I can tell who has solid advice and those (even with good intentions, and they are a majority) who are just blowing smoke. If you want to be knowledgable the first rule is "Listen", the second is "Evaluate". I would advise to not post until you do those two first. However, you are free to do as you will.10 -
I been here 7 (6.5, but who’s been counting?) years. Therefore, I know more than you. Think about that logically, and about it makes *no sense*.3
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To me, someone who is knowledgable is someone who has read and understands the scientific literature in regards to diet and weight loss rather than someone who reads blogs and can not differentiate between someones cherry-picked opinions and solid science. Someone who has a solid foundation but always has the quest to continue learning rather than believing they are experts who know a lot. I guess that means they think like I do in regards to weight loss because I always like my views to be backed by what science tells us.16
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Lillymoo01 wrote: »To me, someone who is knowledgable is someone who has read and understands the scientific literature in regards to diet and weight loss rather than someone who reads blogs and can not differentiate between someones cherry-picked opinions and solid science. Someone who has a solid foundation but always has the quest to continue learning rather than believing they are experts who know a lot. I guess that means they think like I do in regards to weight loss because I always like my views to be backed by what science tells us.
So if there is evidence contrary to your belief, do you change your belief? I see a lot of people suggesting they are evidence based who only want to validate their current opinion.7 -
Lillymoo01 wrote: »To me, someone who is knowledgable is someone who has read and understands the scientific literature in regards to diet and weight loss rather than someone who reads blogs and can not differentiate between someones cherry-picked opinions and solid science. Someone who has a solid foundation but always has the quest to continue learning rather than believing they are experts who know a lot. I guess that means they think like I do in regards to weight loss because I always like my views to be backed by what science tells us.
So if there is evidence contrary to your belief, do you change your belief? I see a lot of people suggesting they are evidence based who only want to validate their current opinion.
I have learned to evaluate the new evidence, compare it to existing, find if new evidence is credible, and then incorporate it into my ideas. Yes, it is tainted by personal opinion, but we are human. I have recently slightly changes my thoughts on fat. So, we either keep learning or die.6 -
psychod787 wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »To me, someone who is knowledgable is someone who has read and understands the scientific literature in regards to diet and weight loss rather than someone who reads blogs and can not differentiate between someones cherry-picked opinions and solid science. Someone who has a solid foundation but always has the quest to continue learning rather than believing they are experts who know a lot. I guess that means they think like I do in regards to weight loss because I always like my views to be backed by what science tells us.
So if there is evidence contrary to your belief, do you change your belief? I see a lot of people suggesting they are evidence based who only want to validate their current opinion.
I have learned to evaluate the new evidence, compare it to existing, find if new evidence is credible, and then incorporate it into my ideas. Yes, it is tainted by personal opinion, but we are human. I have recently slightly changes my thoughts on fat. So, we either keep learning or die.
So i will ask you, do macros matter when it comes to weight loss?2 -
candylilacs wrote: »I been here 7 (6.5, but who’s been counting?) years. Therefore, I know more than you. Think about that logically, and about it makes *no sense*.
Strange--that surprises me. Perhaps you know more than I do, perhaps not. It doesn't matter to me, you aren't on my list of "knowledgable", but then again you could surprise me. Good luck.
PS: I've been here since Feb 2013, you've been here since June 2013. Almost twins!3 -
For the OP:
Altering body composition to increase muscle & decrease fat will make only a small difference in basal metabolic rate, albeit a positive one.
As far as burning calories, formal exercise notwithstanding, an active lifestyle (puttering, standing, keep moving) burns 2-3 times the amount of calories expended while sitting or sleeping (for many people, 60-100 calories per hour vs 30-50 calories per hour).
The latter doesn't significantly change your BMR, but makes the largest difference in daily calories expended for most people. If you are on the go all day & spend little time sitting, you can easily expend 500+ calories more per day than if you are sedentary. If you also do an hour of formal exercise per day, you can rack up another 300+ calories burned. People who are very active and exercise vigorously will expend even more. Gender & body size factor in, but you get the idea.10 -
psychod787 wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »To me, someone who is knowledgable is someone who has read and understands the scientific literature in regards to diet and weight loss rather than someone who reads blogs and can not differentiate between someones cherry-picked opinions and solid science. Someone who has a solid foundation but always has the quest to continue learning rather than believing they are experts who know a lot. I guess that means they think like I do in regards to weight loss because I always like my views to be backed by what science tells us.
So if there is evidence contrary to your belief, do you change your belief? I see a lot of people suggesting they are evidence based who only want to validate their current opinion.
I have learned to evaluate the new evidence, compare it to existing, find if new evidence is credible, and then incorporate it into my ideas. Yes, it is tainted by personal opinion, but we are human. I have recently slightly changes my thoughts on fat. So, we either keep learning or die.
So i will ask you, do macros matter when it comes to weight loss?
Yes and no.... calories are king. Protein has a slightly higher tef. There is some evidence that higher protein diets stop some of the metabolic adaptation seen in weight loss. The diet fit study showed that when most of the diet is a whole foods diet, people tend to lose weight on either low carb or low fat. So, I think food quality effects satiety vs calories out. When we look at the Kevin Hall study it also lends itself to this idea. So, carbs vs fat? No... protein... yes. Gray question.... you get a gray answer.10 -
psychod787 wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »To me, someone who is knowledgable is someone who has read and understands the scientific literature in regards to diet and weight loss rather than someone who reads blogs and can not differentiate between someones cherry-picked opinions and solid science. Someone who has a solid foundation but always has the quest to continue learning rather than believing they are experts who know a lot. I guess that means they think like I do in regards to weight loss because I always like my views to be backed by what science tells us.
So if there is evidence contrary to your belief, do you change your belief? I see a lot of people suggesting they are evidence based who only want to validate their current opinion.
I have learned to evaluate the new evidence, compare it to existing, find if new evidence is credible, and then incorporate it into my ideas. Yes, it is tainted by personal opinion, but we are human. I have recently slightly changes my thoughts on fat. So, we either keep learning or die.
So i will ask you, do macros matter when it comes to weight loss?
This question is too vague to allow for a meaningful answer.
If you mean: do macros matter assuming the variation is within a healthy range, diets are otherwise healthy, and calories are controlled (which means taking into account the small TEF difference that will exist within healthy range macros and depending on amount of fiber), then no, it appears not, with Hall's studies being among the evidence.
If you mean: assuming ad libitum eating or someone counting and struggling with compliance, do macros matter? They certainly might for individuals and seem to on average, especially (perhaps solely) protein, although there are other aspects of diet that I think are as important, so macros tend to be over-focused on (again, assuming within a healthy range). (There is at least some research suggesting the benefit from protein on appetite levels out once it's in a healthy range, however, so while I think the answer is "on average, yes, but individuals vary," some would say "evidence is too conflicting to say.") But again I think there are other aspects of diet more significant.
If you mean: "for someone lean, trying to get leaner, and also trying to maintain muscle"? Then protein matters, although again once one is in a healthy range it isn't going to matter as much as is often suggested (and it matters more for muscle maintenance or gain than weight loss specifically, and really for quite lean people).
Not sure, however, what this has to do with the debate over whether spicy foods or ginger meaningfully affect metabolism such that OP should start eating enormous amounts. (They are tasty in reasonable amounts, IMO.)
Once TEF is taken into account, I don't think the real effect, such as it is, from macros on weight loss is metabolism. (I know there have been some studies that suggest increases to metabolism from some diets, but they conflict with other studies and you can never take single studies as proving things.)6 -
psychod787 wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »To me, someone who is knowledgable is someone who has read and understands the scientific literature in regards to diet and weight loss rather than someone who reads blogs and can not differentiate between someones cherry-picked opinions and solid science. Someone who has a solid foundation but always has the quest to continue learning rather than believing they are experts who know a lot. I guess that means they think like I do in regards to weight loss because I always like my views to be backed by what science tells us.
So if there is evidence contrary to your belief, do you change your belief? I see a lot of people suggesting they are evidence based who only want to validate their current opinion.
I have learned to evaluate the new evidence, compare it to existing, find if new evidence is credible, and then incorporate it into my ideas. Yes, it is tainted by personal opinion, but we are human. I have recently slightly changes my thoughts on fat. So, we either keep learning or die.
So i will ask you, do macros matter when it comes to weight loss?
This question is too vague to allow for a meaningful answer.
If you mean: do macros matter assuming the variation is within a healthy range, diets are otherwise healthy, and calories are controlled (which means taking into account the small TEF difference that will exist within healthy range macros and depending on amount of fiber), then no, it appears not, with Hall's studies being among the evidence.
If you mean: assuming ad libitum eating or someone counting and struggling with compliance, do macros matter? They certainly might for individuals and seem to on average, especially (perhaps solely) protein, although there are other aspects of diet that I think are as important, so macros tend to be over-focused on (again, assuming within a healthy range). (There is at least some research suggesting the benefit from protein on appetite levels out once it's in a healthy range, however, so while I think the answer is "on average, yes, but individuals vary," some would say "evidence is too conflicting to say.") But again I think there are other aspects of diet more significant.
If you mean: "for someone lean, trying to get leaner, and also trying to maintain muscle"? Then protein matters, although again once one is in a healthy range it isn't going to matter as much as is often suggested (and it matters more for muscle maintenance or gain than weight loss specifically, and really for quite lean people).
Not sure, however, what this has to do with the debate over whether spicy foods or ginger meaningfully affect metabolism such that OP should start eating enormous amounts. (They are tasty in reasonable amounts, IMO.)
Once TEF is taken into account, I don't think the real effect, such as it is, from macros on weight loss is metabolism. (I know there have been some studies that suggest increases to metabolism from some diets, but they conflict with other studies and you can never take single studies as proving things.)
While I can't completely speak for the question asker.... me personally thinks it was a "set up" question....8 -
psychod787 wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »To me, someone who is knowledgable is someone who has read and understands the scientific literature in regards to diet and weight loss rather than someone who reads blogs and can not differentiate between someones cherry-picked opinions and solid science. Someone who has a solid foundation but always has the quest to continue learning rather than believing they are experts who know a lot. I guess that means they think like I do in regards to weight loss because I always like my views to be backed by what science tells us.
So if there is evidence contrary to your belief, do you change your belief? I see a lot of people suggesting they are evidence based who only want to validate their current opinion.
I have learned to evaluate the new evidence, compare it to existing, find if new evidence is credible, and then incorporate it into my ideas. Yes, it is tainted by personal opinion, but we are human. I have recently slightly changes my thoughts on fat. So, we either keep learning or die.
So i will ask you, do macros matter when it comes to weight loss?
This question is too vague to allow for a meaningful answer.
If you mean: do macros matter assuming the variation is within a healthy range, diets are otherwise healthy, and calories are controlled (which means taking into account the small TEF difference that will exist within healthy range macros and depending on amount of fiber), then no, it appears not, with Hall's studies being among the evidence.
If you mean: assuming ad libitum eating or someone counting and struggling with compliance, do macros matter? They certainly might for individuals and seem to on average, especially (perhaps solely) protein, although there are other aspects of diet that I think are as important, so macros tend to be over-focused on (again, assuming within a healthy range). (There is at least some research suggesting the benefit from protein on appetite levels out once it's in a healthy range, however, so while I think the answer is "on average, yes, but individuals vary," some would say "evidence is too conflicting to say.") But again I think there are other aspects of diet more significant.
If you mean: "for someone lean, trying to get leaner, and also trying to maintain muscle"? Then protein matters, although again once one is in a healthy range it isn't going to matter as much as is often suggested (and it matters more for muscle maintenance or gain than weight loss specifically, and really for quite lean people).
Not sure, however, what this has to do with the debate over whether spicy foods or ginger meaningfully affect metabolism such that OP should start eating enormous amounts. (They are tasty in reasonable amounts, IMO.)
Once TEF is taken into account, I don't think the real effect, such as it is, from macros on weight loss is metabolism. (I know there have been some studies that suggest increases to metabolism from some diets, but they conflict with other studies and you can never take single studies as proving things.)
While I can't completely speak for the question asker.... me personally thinks it was a "set up" question....
Perhaps. If you mean that the asker thinks he knows what the answer is and was either trying to solicit an admission or slam the expected answer, sure, I think so too, I don't think he was looking for advice (or needs it).
However, if the point was intended to be "if you answer this the wrong way you don't follow the literature or are close-minded," that's why the fact it was too vague too allow for a meaningful answer is an important thing to note. (I somehow failed to read your response before making mine, but yours is basically a more succinct way of saying the same thing. I'm chronically long-winded, as we all know.) ;-)
I still don't see what it has to do with the effect of ginger, and that seemed to me the conversation it was intended to relate to, but sometimes things get past me!5 -
psychod787 wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »To me, someone who is knowledgable is someone who has read and understands the scientific literature in regards to diet and weight loss rather than someone who reads blogs and can not differentiate between someones cherry-picked opinions and solid science. Someone who has a solid foundation but always has the quest to continue learning rather than believing they are experts who know a lot. I guess that means they think like I do in regards to weight loss because I always like my views to be backed by what science tells us.
So if there is evidence contrary to your belief, do you change your belief? I see a lot of people suggesting they are evidence based who only want to validate their current opinion.
I have learned to evaluate the new evidence, compare it to existing, find if new evidence is credible, and then incorporate it into my ideas. Yes, it is tainted by personal opinion, but we are human. I have recently slightly changes my thoughts on fat. So, we either keep learning or die.
So i will ask you, do macros matter when it comes to weight loss?
This question is too vague to allow for a meaningful answer.
If you mean: do macros matter assuming the variation is within a healthy range, diets are otherwise healthy, and calories are controlled (which means taking into account the small TEF difference that will exist within healthy range macros and depending on amount of fiber), then no, it appears not, with Hall's studies being among the evidence.
If you mean: assuming ad libitum eating or someone counting and struggling with compliance, do macros matter? They certainly might for individuals and seem to on average, especially (perhaps solely) protein, although there are other aspects of diet that I think are as important, so macros tend to be over-focused on (again, assuming within a healthy range). (There is at least some research suggesting the benefit from protein on appetite levels out once it's in a healthy range, however, so while I think the answer is "on average, yes, but individuals vary," some would say "evidence is too conflicting to say.") But again I think there are other aspects of diet more significant.
If you mean: "for someone lean, trying to get leaner, and also trying to maintain muscle"? Then protein matters, although again once one is in a healthy range it isn't going to matter as much as is often suggested (and it matters more for muscle maintenance or gain than weight loss specifically, and really for quite lean people).
Not sure, however, what this has to do with the debate over whether spicy foods or ginger meaningfully affect metabolism such that OP should start eating enormous amounts. (They are tasty in reasonable amounts, IMO.)
Once TEF is taken into account, I don't think the real effect, such as it is, from macros on weight loss is metabolism. (I know there have been some studies that suggest increases to metabolism from some diets, but they conflict with other studies and you can never take single studies as proving things.)
While I can't completely speak for the question asker.... me personally thinks it was a "set up" question....
Perhaps. If you mean that the asker thinks he knows what the answer is and was either trying to solicit an admission or slam the expected answer, sure, I think so too, I don't think he was looking for advice (or needs it).
However, if the point was intended to be "if you answer this the wrong way you don't follow the literature or are close-minded," that's why the fact it was too vague too allow for a meaningful answer is an important thing to note. (I somehow failed to read your response before making mine, but yours is basically a more succinct way of saying the same thing. I'm chronically long-winded, as we all know.) ;-)
I still don't see what it has to do with the effect of ginger, and that seemed to me the conversation it was intended to relate to, but sometimes things get past me!
He is a moderator. I doubt he even thinks that I am more of a fly on an elephant's backside.🤣 yes, to both of your thoughts. Honestly it has nothing to do with ginger. Maybe I think to much of myself, but the question asked and I have had a couple of "run ins". I still go back to this question. What controls CI? I think it is the biggest variable here. We know you can only burn so much energy in a day realistically. So, how to create a calorie deficit and maintain a lower calorie intake indefinitely is more of an interesting topic for me.8
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