How accurate is BMI
yxba
Posts: 33 Member
I started at 512 pounds and 6'3. I've got a fairly muscular build. I've been told that I should wait until I'm at 180 before having skin removal surgery and I'm currently at 300 pounds. By my estimates, I'm about a year or so away. I just feel like 180 pounds is pretty low for my build. Thoughts?
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Replies
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180 lbs sounds low to me. Who gave you that number? If it was a surgeon who would do the surgery, then it's probably accurate. Otherwise, I would check with one once you get into the top range of normal BMI.
Caveat: I have no experience in this area other than male family members in this height range with larger muscular builds.1 -
That seems pretty low, especially since with your starting weight there may be a fair weight of skin to remove. Also, generally surgeons want your weight to have been stable for a while before doing surgery, since regain after skin removal isn’t pretty. I know there are several posters here who have had skin removal surgery and may have some insight. But it seems to me that being at the weight you intend to remain at for the rest of your life should be more of a condition than being at a particular BMI.2
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Where does 180 come in? That's a 22.5 BMI. That is pretty tough for a lot of men, and I imagine even tougher for you, as when you you were 512 pounds, your body needed a lot of muscle to carry all that weight around. I'd guess at lowest you should aim for the high end of normal BMI, which is 200 for your height. Or maybe even a bit above.
I do think it is a good idea to finish your weight loss and get to stable weight first before getting the surgery.6 -
Congrats on your weight loss so far and best of luck getting the rest of the way.
180 puts you at a BMI of 22.5, pretty much in the middle of the normal range. 200 would be right at the top of the range. What makes you believe you are muscular? Have you resistance trained extensively or have a very physical job? If the answer is no, you are probably not muscular at this point but you sure can get there with proper training.
As @bold_rabbit rabbit mentions, I would wait to get closer to normal BMI and discuss with your doctor. Again no knowledge of this surgery but he may want you to get low before surgery as I would say the skin would stretch a bit if you were to train and gain some muscle, but you're not going to have the surgery again if you lose more weight when in a closer to normal range.
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It was just a walk-in doctor. I live in Canada and my doctor moved out of town so I’m currently between doctors so I had to see a walk-in doctor for his thoughts on this. For now I will just focus on getting my weight down to the 200 range and then I guess I’ll see how much more I can actually lose. Thanks!5
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By all reports the surgery is not minor. I would urge weight stability beyond the minimum before going for it, assuming that healthy concerns are not forcing the issue.
Take your time and continue losing till you're much closer to a weight you feel you can settle at to determine if normal BMI or slightly overweight BMI should be your final goal. I see the suggestion of BMI 22.5, and I would say that I probably would not agree from the point of view of where you're coming from.
Are you particularly athletic/lifting weights etc during your loss? This could end up playing a role.
Here are some thoughts from someone who lost way less than you.
In my books one year to go is optimistic. The equivalent of what you're discussing for one year took me two and that was my start to finish. I still found it quite fast. You are coming closer to more normal overweight levels. You should not continue losing at the same rapid rates once you're there. Think 0.5% to 0.75% of total weight per week as opposed to 1% to 1.5%. At least once you're out of the obese ranges.
Also, when many of us stop restricting there is a fairly long time period where our hormones are pushing for weight restoration. I found it easier to partially ride it out / blunt it by keeping to a year of less than a lb a MONTH weight loss (-11lbs). This was followed by very small (-3lbs) to no changes on the following three years. Thinking back it was only during the subsequent years of no changes that I started having to apply significantly less management on my "hunger" cues, so 2+ years post the -11.2lbs.
Beyond hunger cues, there will be some re-composition. For example your calves as an obese person are much larger than what a non competitive cyclist / possibly very trained weight lifter will need. The muscle mass there WILL reduce... and that's not necessarily bad. Having large calves doesn't help you with anything if you're not using them at your new weight! There is also connective tissue in addition to fat that is lost when we reduce.
So in general the proportion of people who will end up at a healthy fat level within a normal weight BMI is similar to the population as a whole. Not everyone. But definitely most. Whether that includes YOU... well we don't know
Skin could account for 5lbs? 10lbs? Unless you are counting attached fat that may also be removed during the same procedure I don't think that skin, by itself, is much heavier than that. I am sure people who have had the procedure will chime in!9 -
My doctor calls BMI voodoo math. As I read this, the math doesn't add up. Here is my reasoning:
1. Someone 6'3" who works averages more than 180 lbs. of lean mass, so the BMI chart puts you at 0% body fat.
2. My buddy is 6'3" 218 Lbs. and ~ 11% BF. His lean mass is 194 lbs.
3. I am 5'9" and have 158 lbs. of lean mass, which is just above an average build. At 180lbs., I am 12% BF
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rodnichols69 wrote: »My doctor calls BMI voodoo math. As I read this, the math doesn't add up. Here is my reasoning:
1. Someone 6'3" who works averages more than 180 lbs. of lean mass, so the BMI chart puts you at 0% body fat.
2. My buddy is 6'3" 218 Lbs. and ~ 11% BF. His lean mass is 194 lbs.
3. I am 5'9" and have 158 lbs. of lean mass, which is just above an average build. At 180lbs., I am 12% BF
but BMI doesn't take muscle mass into consideration..it is literally a ratio of height to weight14 -
BMI is a calculated number, so yes it’s accurate because it’s basic math. The color coded graphs and ranges simply represent additional mathematical ranges and averages based on large population groups. It’s not intended to predict what any specific person should be like.
I suggest that for the next year you continue to focus on your successful weight loss progress and don’t stress about 180. Who knows why the doc picked that number? When you get to a range you feel comfortable with, revisit the skin surgery goals with your doctor.5 -
I don’t work out with weights at this point. I had too many back problems. I’m also dealing with knee osteoarthritis which limits me further. What I have found works for me is doing yoga 3 days a week. I have recently started seeing an athletic therapist who has helped to get rid of a blockage in both of my knees and this helped me greatly. I’m now on a program of home excercises to help build support for my arthritic knees and I do these exercises as well as glute activations each day.
I’m turning 38 soon. When I was in my early 20’s I was into bodybuilding and put on a lot of muscle. A lot of it is coming back even during my weight loss from the yoga alone.
I respect what you’re saying in terms of taking my time. However, I’m very focused and honestly I’d like to have a body that I can feel comfortable with while I’m still in my 30’s.7 -
rodnichols69 wrote: »My doctor calls BMI voodoo math. As I read this, the math doesn't add up. Here is my reasoning:
1. Someone 6'3" who works averages more than 180 lbs. of lean mass, so the BMI chart puts you at 0% body fat.
2. My buddy is 6'3" 218 Lbs. and ~ 11% BF. His lean mass is 194 lbs.
3. I am 5'9" and have 158 lbs. of lean mass, which is just above an average build. At 180lbs., I am 12% BF
@rodnichols69 6'3" at 218 and 11% body fat is NFL wide receiver range of bodyfat for that height and weight. If all his measurements are accurate he's jacked/built, not your normal dude at LA Fitness.10 -
I don’t work out with weights at this point. I had too many back problems. I’m also dealing with knee osteoarthritis which limits me further. What I have found works for me is doing yoga 3 days a week. I have recently started seeing an athletic therapist who has helped to get rid of a blockage in both of my knees and this helped me greatly. I’m now on a program of home excercises to help build support for my arthritic knees and I do these exercises as well as glute activations each day.
I’m turning 38 soon. When I was in my early 20’s I was into bodybuilding and put on a lot of muscle. A lot of it is coming back even during my weight loss from the yoga alone.
I respect what you’re saying in terms of taking my time. However, I’m very focused and honestly I’d like to have a body that I can feel comfortable with while I’m still in my 30’s.
From someone well past his 30's (and I'm impressed you decided to do something in your 30's which I did not )... regardless of any additional motivation that you may have in terms of being comfortable in your own body, you actually have a major health issue at your original weight. My own knees feel normal and non limiting at normal weight. Putting on a 40lb vest for a few hours means my knees hurt the next few days... just like they used to. A nice body... is nice. As you age, the opportunities afforded by better health, are even more nice!
Losing your excess weight is NEITHER THE GOAL NOR the end of the process.
Losing and MAINTAINING YOUR LOSS is.9 -
I don’t work out with weights at this point. I had too many back problems. I’m also dealing with knee osteoarthritis which limits me further. What I have found works for me is doing yoga 3 days a week. I have recently started seeing an athletic therapist who has helped to get rid of a blockage in both of my knees and this helped me greatly. I’m now on a program of home excercises to help build support for my arthritic knees and I do these exercises as well as glute activations each day.
I’m turning 38 soon. When I was in my early 20’s I was into bodybuilding and put on a lot of muscle. A lot of it is coming back even during my weight loss from the yoga alone.
I respect what you’re saying in terms of taking my time. However, I’m very focused and honestly I’d like to have a body that I can feel comfortable with while I’m still in my 30’s.
From someone well past his 30's (and I'm impressed you decided to do something in your 30's which I did not )... regardless of any additional motivation that you may have in terms of being comfortable in your own body, you actually have a major health issue at your original weight. My own knees feel normal and non limiting at normal weight. Putting on a 40lb vest for a few hours means my knees hurt the next few days... just like they used to. A nice body... is nice. As you age, the opportunities afforded by better health, are even more nice!
Losing your excess weight is NEITHER THE GOAL NOT the end of the process.
Losing and MAINTAINING YOUR LOSS is.
Thanks for those words of encouragement. I don't think maintaining is in my vocabulary lol. Don't get me wrong. I will get to the point where my weight more or less maintains. But what I'm embarking on is not so simple as a period of weight loss and then life long maintenance of that weight. I am fighting a battle against my body and my plan is to do everything I possibly can to improve my quality of life as much as I can with the damage I've already done to my joints. I will be fighting to keep my osteoarthritis from getting worse for the rest of my life. That's part of the reason why I believe in losing weight quickly. There are only really two things I can do to limit the damage from continuing and that exercise and losing as much weight as I can. If I can get my weight down one year sooner that's one extra year of not further damaging my knees with the extra pressure every time I walk.
When it comes to the excess skin. Well, I've kind of had the goal my whole adult life to lose as much fat as I can safety do and then get the skin removal surgery so I'm pretty focused on that. Its more than just a nice body. Its more of a self esteem type of thing.
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Was the doctor you visited an actual plastic surgeon? If not, I wouldn't put a lot of stock in what he said and I would wait about another 50 pounds and see a PS for an initial consultation.
As @PAV8888 mentioned your fast losing days need to be soon behind you. I am not sure what your rate of loss is at the moment but mine was 2.5lbs pounds per week at 300. I decided to drop it to 2 when I hit 270 and follow the normal guidelines the rest of the way. My plans were altered for a surgical need so I consulted an RD and actually went faster than I wanted to for 3 months but I feel like 270 should have been my line to slow down.
You have done great. I know you are at a tough weight. I remember it well. There is so much great about losing weight and so much that sucks. Keep your spirits up. I made it through and I am older than you.9 -
Same height 6'3" I'm currently at 190.. ppl think I'm skinny... 195 is at top/border of "normal"
It all up to how you feel about the weight really.2 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »rodnichols69 wrote: »My doctor calls BMI voodoo math. As I read this, the math doesn't add up. Here is my reasoning:
1. Someone 6'3" who works averages more than 180 lbs. of lean mass, so the BMI chart puts you at 0% body fat.
2. My buddy is 6'3" 218 Lbs. and ~ 11% BF. His lean mass is 194 lbs.
3. I am 5'9" and have 158 lbs. of lean mass, which is just above an average build. At 180lbs., I am 12% BF
@rodnichols69 6'3" at 218 and 11% body fat is NFL wide receiver range of bodyfat for that height and weight. If all his measurements are accurate he's jacked/built, not your normal dude at LA Fitness.
He is exactly that size and looks nothing like a NFL receiver other than about a 2 pack of abs. The original question was how accurate is BMI. It is not accurate at all. It does not take lean mass into account or about 10 other factors that should be considered.
I would have to lose 9.5 lbs. of muscle to be at the top tier of the BMI scale for my height and still have some body fat.
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Skin could account for 5lbs? 10lbs? Unless you are counting attached fat that may also be removed during the same procedure I don't think that skin, by itself, is much heavier than that. I am sure people who have had the procedure will chime in!
I seem to recall the forum member who had hers done had 15 lbs removed, and she had only lost about 100 lbs. I looked it up and the typical weight of a lower body lift is 10 lbs, massive weight loss skin removal this particular doctor had removed up to 60 lbs of skin. It’s not just skin which is removed but also the fat attached to it.3 -
Was the doctor you visited an actual plastic surgeon? If not, I wouldn't put a lot of stock in what he said and I would wait about another 50 pounds and see a PS for an initial consultation.
As @PAV8888 mentioned your fast losing days need to be soon behind you. I am not sure what your rate of loss is at the moment but mine was 2.5lbs pounds per week at 300. I decided to drop it to 2 when I hit 270 and follow the normal guidelines the rest of the way. My plans were altered for a surgical need so I consulted an RD and actually went faster than I wanted to for 3 months but I feel like 270 should have been my line to slow down.
You have done great. I know you are at a tough weight. I remember it well. There is so much great about losing weight and so much that sucks. Keep your spirits up. I made it through and I am older than you.Was the doctor you visited an actual plastic surgeon? If not, I wouldn't put a lot of stock in what he said and I would wait about another 50 pounds and see a PS for an initial consultation.
As @PAV8888 mentioned your fast losing days need to be soon behind you. I am not sure what your rate of loss is at the moment but mine was 2.5lbs pounds per week at 300. I decided to drop it to 2 when I hit 270 and follow the normal guidelines the rest of the way. My plans were altered for a surgical need so I consulted an RD and actually went faster than I wanted to for 3 months but I feel like 270 should have been my line to slow down.
You have done great. I know you are at a tough weight. I remember it well. There is so much great about losing weight and so much that sucks. Keep your spirits up. I made it through and I am older than you.
I’ve just had the thought in mind that I would stick to eating 2000 calories per day and eventually the weight loss would slow down. I’m hoping to be able to avoid further calorie restriction by increasing excercise as I’m more capable of it. I want to start swimming laps again in summer. Even if I lost 2 pounds a week that would be good for 96 pounds in a year they would really get me into the ballpark where the surgery alone would maybe lose me an extra 15 pounds or so.
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Had similar thought process except I was aiming for a carefully accounted 2500.5
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rodnichols69 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »rodnichols69 wrote: »My doctor calls BMI voodoo math. As I read this, the math doesn't add up. Here is my reasoning:
1. Someone 6'3" who works averages more than 180 lbs. of lean mass, so the BMI chart puts you at 0% body fat.
2. My buddy is 6'3" 218 Lbs. and ~ 11% BF. His lean mass is 194 lbs.
3. I am 5'9" and have 158 lbs. of lean mass, which is just above an average build. At 180lbs., I am 12% BF
@rodnichols69 6'3" at 218 and 11% body fat is NFL wide receiver range of bodyfat for that height and weight. If all his measurements are accurate he's jacked/built, not your normal dude at LA Fitness.
He is exactly that size and looks nothing like a NFL receiver other than about a 2 pack of abs. The original question was how accurate is BMI. It is not accurate at all. It does not take lean mass into account or about 10 other factors that should be considered.
I would have to lose 9.5 lbs. of muscle to be at the top tier of the BMI scale for my height and still have some body fat.
BMI is a realistic benchmark for 80-90% of the population. It will correlate well with other measures such as bodyfat % and waist measurement (i.e, someone with an overweight/obese BMI will most likely be in the same category on the other measurements) and it easier to determine.
If someone is significantly overweight/obese on BMI, they should talk to their doctor and determine if there are other factors such as a high level of muscularity that mitigates the health threats associated with higher BMI. If one truly has a high level of muscle, and is being honest with themselves they know it (hint, it's not happening without extensive resistance training).
BTW 11-12% BF is fantastic and not what you typically see on your average gym goer and certainly not the average male on the street. Could I ask how you are determining BF%?
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180lbs does sound light for someone your height, but for a few examples, my son who is also 6ft 3 is 13 stone which is 182lbs - but he is really lean and probably his BMI is at the very low end of healthy. My husband is 6ft 1 and looks great at 14 stone which is 196lbs.0
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I have nothing to add to the comments on the weight issue. But I see you are doing exercises for arthritic knees and I just wanted to say they work really well, but slowly, so do them diligently and keep doing them. My husband is obese and was nearly crippled by arthritic knees 2 years ago. Had to use a walker. He has not lost any weight but has been doing his exercises daily (in the swimming pool to take advantage of the water resistance and do things like squats which would be impossible at full body weight). It has done him the world of good and although he still has to use the walker for any distances his mobility is hugely improved, the pain has reduced and he has been able to reduce the dosage of his anti-inflammatory drugs.2
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Just what the others have said - BMI is a benchmark (accurate isn't really a word that you can use to describe it). Its a height/weight ratio and gives a healthy range for most of the population. IF you are extremely muscular it doesn't work, but if you are extremely muscular you know that you are and don't need BMI - you'll use body fat percentage or basically just how you look!7
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SnifterPug wrote: »I have nothing to add to the comments on the weight issue. But I see you are doing exercises for arthritic knees and I just wanted to say they work really well, but slowly, so do them diligently and keep doing them. My husband is obese and was nearly crippled by arthritic knees 2 years ago. Had to use a walker. He has not lost any weight but has been doing his exercises daily (in the swimming pool to take advantage of the water resistance and do things like squats which would be impossible at full body weight). It has done him the world of good and although he still has to use the walker for any distances his mobility is hugely improved, the pain has reduced and he has been able to reduce the dosage of his anti-inflammatory drugs.
Thank you for this. I really appreciate it. I hope that your husband will start to lose weight. Believe me. If i could do it so can he.1 -
Had similar thought process except I was aiming for a carefully accounted 2500.
How much exercise were you able to do? I have mine a bit lower because sometimes with life i end up missing my exercises. And i found that it could wreak havoc with my mind game. I would get thoughts like this week was a waste and start thinking im gonna gain weight ect. I base my calories on still losing weight even with no exercise and view the exercise as a bonus. This helps me to remain positive at all times.
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@yxba
You are welcome to join my MFP Larger Losers Group. It is for people who are starting or did start with 75 or more pounds to lose.
Here is the link:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/133315-larger-losers
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I had a starting weight of 400. I am currently down to 215. I have quite a bit of excess skin and will be doing a skin removal along with some other fixing in areas. I called to schedule a consult with a plastic surgeon in the area in order to get a pricing structure to know how much I needed to save (it is a full cash procedure. Insurance won't cover it at all as it is cosmetic). They wouldn't even schedule a meeting until I was at a "normal" BMI. This is 175 for me. I know I have a lot of weight in skin and if it is removed I would be a lot closer to a healthy weight. This was not a consideration the plastic surgeon would consider. So here I am continuing to work at it everyday until I hit the magic BMI number so that I can have a meeting to see when and how I can have my skin removed. Hope this helps!10
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »rodnichols69 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »rodnichols69 wrote: »My doctor calls BMI voodoo math. As I read this, the math doesn't add up. Here is my reasoning:
1. Someone 6'3" who works averages more than 180 lbs. of lean mass, so the BMI chart puts you at 0% body fat.
2. My buddy is 6'3" 218 Lbs. and ~ 11% BF. His lean mass is 194 lbs.
3. I am 5'9" and have 158 lbs. of lean mass, which is just above an average build. At 180lbs., I am 12% BF
@rodnichols69 6'3" at 218 and 11% body fat is NFL wide receiver range of bodyfat for that height and weight. If all his measurements are accurate he's jacked/built, not your normal dude at LA Fitness.
He is exactly that size and looks nothing like a NFL receiver other than about a 2 pack of abs. The original question was how accurate is BMI. It is not accurate at all. It does not take lean mass into account or about 10 other factors that should be considered.
I would have to lose 9.5 lbs. of muscle to be at the top tier of the BMI scale for my height and still have some body fat.
BMI is a realistic benchmark for 80-90% of the population. It will correlate well with other measures such as bodyfat % and waist measurement (i.e, someone with an overweight/obese BMI will most likely be in the same category on the other measurements) and it easier to determine.
If someone is significantly overweight/obese on BMI, they should talk to their doctor and determine if there are other factors such as a high level of muscularity that mitigates the health threats associated with higher BMI. If one truly has a high level of muscle, and is being honest with themselves they know it (hint, it's not happening without extensive resistance training).
BTW 11-12% BF is fantastic and not what you typically see on your average gym goer and certainly not the average male on the street. Could I ask how you are determining BF%?
...outliers, outliers everywhere!
Really - every time a thread that mentions BMI starts there are always a few folks trying to discredit it by claiming outlier status. Heck, all my lifting buddies are outliers so I know they exist as I see them every day - but I also know that BMI is accurate for the vast majority of the population. Really, even with active "fit" people - how many actually train with the sole purpose of getting massive and yoked? Most just end up settling with being relatively athletically lean and ripped. I recently took a co-worker to the gym with me after he expressed a desire to improve his fitness. He also claimed that although he was a bit fluffy - it was mostly muscle as he was a "big boned" guy and he'd just need to lose a bit of that fluff. Dude couldn't bench a plate - my WIFE can bench more than he could. I don't think that massive turkey boob chest of his was hiding any serious amount of muscle.
I've mentioned this before - outliers against BMI should be mandated to post their stats and a pic of their physique. I'm sure that some of them might even pass the "sniffer test" but in my experience - those that actually do meet outlier status aren't the ones that are so adamant in trying to discredit BMI - as they know exactly how hard and long they had to train to achieve that status.26 -
Just as a fun set of data points on this question, here are articles about BMI of male and female Olympic medalists, across a wide range of sports, where the majority of both men and women are of normal BMI (trend for men a little less pronounced than for women, as they skew a bit higher in muscle mass):
https://www.runnersworld.com/health-injuries/a20793992/bmis-of-champions-womens-edition/
https://www.runnersworld.com/races-places/a20811275/bmis-of-champions-mens-edition/
I'm thinking they all tend to have quite a bit more muscle mass than most of us, though they're probably also quite lean.
BMI is not intended to be the last word; it's primarily a screener to focus on people who might need a closer look. Most people would be at a healthy weight in the normal BMI range - not the same as saying all would be at an unhealthy weight outside it - and the very few that wouldn't be healthy anywhere in the range don't invalidate it for the rest of us.
From looking around me in my part of the US, I'd guess there are quite a few more people thinking they aren't overweight/obese who actually are, than people who have so much muscle mass they'd be at their best weight above the normal BMI range.
Ask your doctor, not your friends, would be my advice.9 -
OP: What does BMI have 2do w/your weight loss effort?
BMI was NOT designed to establish specific goals for weight loss or maintenance. It was ONLY designed as an indicator of one's risk for certain diseases, such as diabetes and heart diease, based on an arguably oversimplified correlation between one's weight and height.
Even if you reach a BMI of 22.5 (with a BW of 180 at 6'3"tall), that would only mean that you have reduced your risk for such diseases to "normal" but would be otherwise meaningless to your weight loss effort.
Forget about it!1
This discussion has been closed.
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