It’s not just about calories

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Replies

  • magnusthenerd
    magnusthenerd Posts: 1,207 Member
    Terytha wrote: »
    You say nothing about your activity.
    ... could eat just donuts and still get a six pack.

    Of course not. You need adequate protein for six packs, plus some other stuff you won't get from pastry. You could get a flat stomach though. If you could handle how hungry a donut only diet would leave you for long enough anyway. Most can't.

    I refer you to the Twinkie Diet as evidence. Google it, dude lost 30-something pounds just eating twinkies and a small amount of scurvy-preventing green beans.

    Just to be a semantics twit: https://www.doughbardoughnuts.com/pages/frontpage
    You could potentially hit a decent but not necessarily optimal protein level putting that in the doughnut mix - probably want to throw in a multivitamin too just in case. It would definitely be a pretty YOLO IIFYM diet.
  • VegjoyP
    VegjoyP Posts: 2,215 Member
    edited June 2020
    Hmmm I would love a peanut butter diet but 1200 calories of peanut butter is not even a whole one jar! A typical jar is like 2000 calories I can buy a small jar then add 2 heads of lettucd and decaf coffee... 😂😂😂
  • Evamutt
    Evamutt Posts: 1,742 Member
    I agree with op, when I was losing, I lost more consistently when I ate "simply" & "healthy" as in a protein simply cooked, as in a lean ground turkey patty or any kind of meat/poultry sauteed in a bit of olive oil plus fresh/frozen veggies with a little butter or such on them as opposed to the same protein cooked in a bit of sauce, no veggies but baked potato or rice on side. It also had the same effect when instead of having my yogurt for snack, I had bowl of cereal. It was all the same calories
  • lukejoycePT
    lukejoycePT Posts: 182 Member
    I don't think it's at all unusual that people who want to reach elite bf levels may have to adopt some techniques that aren't necessary for the average person who just wants to reach a healthy body weight (or even go beyond that into losing vanity pounds).

    Outside of your very specific circumstance, do you agree that for someone who wants to reach a healthy body weight or even lose some vanity pounds, a calorie deficit is the most crucial factor?

    I 1000% agree with this. With my clients I would always start we reducing calories as little as possible. Pull them into a slight deficit as normally this will produce some decent results right off the bat. Then decrease calories depending on how they respond. Once a lower body fat is reached 12-16% I would then introduce a few extra tools to help kick the extra lbs such as keeping the “fun” foods to weekends and only drinking certain alcohol such as red wine and spirits

    I would think red wine would be one of the worst choices for that. Generally, when drinking while trying to be lean, you're looking for the most alcohol to the least calories and least congeners. Congeners are byproducts of alcohol fermentation that are generally associated with the negative effects, like hangover, that happen. Red wine is one of the worst alcoholic drinks in terms of congeners along with brandy and rum. Generally clear spirits like vodka are good, as well as beer.

    I also don't understand that idea earlier in the thread of calling alcohol a carb by virtue of them being created through sugar fermentation. When you get down to it, plenty of fat in animals comes from turning sugars into pyruvate and then short fatty acids, and usually esterifying them with glcyerol (derived also from sugar) to make triglcyerides. Yet I wouldn't call fats just a different form of carbs. By a similar metric, testosterone is a cholesterol derived hormone - so it comes from a lipid / fat - yet I've never heard of a bodybuilder referring to it as getting fatter because their testosterone levels went up.

    Wow you really want to go deep with this.

    Let me clarify. People tend to gravitate toward wine, beer or spirits. Beer in my opinion isn’t the best drink in this situation for several fairly obvious reasons.

    So if someone was to chose wine I’d go for red over white. Red has far more health benefits going for it, if you believe in anti oxidants, it’s better for you.

    Spirits wise, not many people enjoy vodka at home. If I was out I’d drink vodka, soda water and fresh lime. It’s refreshing, tastes good, gets you drunk and has the least calories. However most people prefer gin and tonic so I’d recommend that too.

    The reason why I simplify alcohol as an “empty carb” is because people want it simple. They don’t need to know that alcohol is basically a poison in your body that’s causes mass inflammation. That’s not going to get them motivated. People enjoy a drink and why shouldn’t they? So I’d rather just say it’s got nothing good in it. It’s an empty carb so don’t over consume it. It may not be scientifically correct but a client isn’t after a science lesson they just want to be able to enjoy themselves and still look and feel better.

    This post wasn’t really about what alcohol t consume tho and if calories are king to then as long as they beverage is tracked correctly then it would change the rate of fat loss. My point is, that for me. It does make a difference.

  • wilson10102018
    wilson10102018 Posts: 1,306 Member
    Don't they teach science in high school anymore?

    A carbohydrate is any of a number of molecules with one thing in common. Made entirely of carbon hydrogen and oxygen. Guess what alcohol is? Right answer gets the hall pass.
  • snowflake954
    snowflake954 Posts: 7,587 Member
    Don't they teach science in high school anymore?

    A carbohydrate is any of a number of molecules with one thing in common. Made entirely of carbon hydrogen and oxygen. Guess what alcohol is? Right answer gets the hall pass.

    I laughed at this--I forgot high school. I wanted to forget high school.......
  • wilson10102018
    wilson10102018 Posts: 1,306 Member
    Don't they teach science in high school anymore?

    A carbohydrate is any of a number of molecules with one thing in common. Made entirely of carbon hydrogen and oxygen. Guess what alcohol is? Right answer gets the hall pass.

    I laughed at this--I forgot high school. I wanted to forget high school.......

    Alcohol made me forget it.
  • snowflake954
    snowflake954 Posts: 7,587 Member
    Don't they teach science in high school anymore?

    A carbohydrate is any of a number of molecules with one thing in common. Made entirely of carbon hydrogen and oxygen. Guess what alcohol is? Right answer gets the hall pass.

    I laughed at this--I forgot high school. I wanted to forget high school.......

    Alcohol made me forget it.

    THAT was college. :D
  • wilson10102018
    wilson10102018 Posts: 1,306 Member
    Don't they teach science in high school anymore?

    A carbohydrate is any of a number of molecules with one thing in common. Made entirely of carbon hydrogen and oxygen. Guess what alcohol is? Right answer gets the hall pass.

    I laughed at this--I forgot high school. I wanted to forget high school.......

    Alcohol made me forget it.

    THAT was college. :D

    I was advanced. And, by the time I got to college there was nothing to remember. And, the carbohydrates slipped into a dim memory in favor of far more complicated molecules.
  • shaumom
    shaumom Posts: 967 Member
    edited June 2020
    The concept that for all people, with all conditions, CICO is the end-all, be-all of how the human body loses and gains weight seems to fly in the face of one important fact: the human body is not that simplistic.

    The fact that someone gets a results others don't expect does not warrant an automatic 'you must be doing it wrong.' If they forgot certain procedures that impact the outcome, sure, but this is just a case study, not a full blown study, and seems fairly well done for what it is. And the results are not actually THAT uncommon. And they don't even fly in the face of what is known about the human body.

    As an example, one reason that people can't lose weight even when their calories are within the right target range, until they ALSO stop eating as much 'junk food,' might be if they have insulin resistance. And this condition seems to be VERY common. 1 in 3 people in the USA are assumed to have this: https://www.endocrineweb.com/conditions/type-2-diabetes/insulin-resistance-causes-symptoms#:~:text=One%20in%20three%20Americans%E2%80%94including,attacks%2C%20strokes2%20and%20cancer. )

    Because if you have excess insulin levels (which happens with insulin resistance), from what I understand, this actually increases how much fat your body stores from what you eat. There is debate on the topic of what STARTS insulin resistance (whether gaining weight starts it, or it starts weight gain), but once insulin resistance HAS started, a person's body will have fat storage that is impacted by blood sugar levels AS WELL AS calories consumed.

    And again: 1 in 3 people in the USA have this (higher than some countries, I'm sure).

    Which may be why there are a LOT of people who try to lose weight with CICO and can't seem to do it until they change the food choices they make, as well.

    This is a nice summary of 4 different bits of research into the origins and function of insulin resistance, for those interested.
    https://www.secondnature.io/guides/diabetes/insulin-resistance-weight-gain