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Has a documentary ever influenced you to eat more plant based?
Replies
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janejellyroll wrote: »Contrary to what most people are saying here, I certainly have been influenced by such documentaries. What has influenced me, however, is not the ‘gross’ factor or the nutrition factor either (if I could easily change my eating habits for better nutrition I would have given up sugar long before meat!). It’s also not the pure ethical argument - I see no problem with killing animals for food, I see this as the circle of life.
What such documentaries DID open my eyes to was how incredibly cruelly animals are treated when raised for meat on factory farms in the US and how this process is largely influenced by desire to profit by meeting the huge demand for meat in the US that far surpasses any true ‘need’ that we have. My clear takeaway from this was that it was very important for Americans to significantly *reduce* (but not necessarily eliminate) their meat consumption. As a result of such documentaries, I did end up going purely vegetarian for a short time (about 6 months). I say short time not because I just forgot/gave up/stopped caring, but because I moved abroad shortly thereafter. I moved somewhere where I would have very little control over my food, where vegetarianism isn’t a thing, and where animals are not raised on factory farms! For these reasons, I shifted back to meat eating not only due to need, but also due to the fact that my major concerns were not relevant in that context.
Since returning to the US, I have also returned to hugely limiting my meat consumption. I do not buy it at the grocery store, I do not cook it, I only (sometimes) eat it when going out to a restaurant or when someone else is cooking for me. I don’t see myself going back to my old ways thinking meat is a required part of every meal any time soon. The environmental argument is also starting to make more of an impact on me and reinforcing this approach. And, yes, this all came from a documentary I watched back in college!
I am intrigued by the argument that it's morally appropriate to end someone's life for pleasure or convenience but that one cannot take measures to make a profit off of doing so. If it's okay to eat someone, why would it be inappropriate to cause them discomfort, pain, or distress in the process? Presumably the "circle of life" contains all three of those experiences.
Just to make sure I’m understanding, the “someone” you are referring to is the animals, right? I don’t see this as problematic as, among other reasons, in the wild you find plenty of animals that kill other animals for food. Even those who cannot survive otherwise. This is a natural sequence of nature and how all flora and fauna have evolved to survive. I don’t see this as problematic. Humans are omnivores by nature (our canine teeth prove it).
And I’m not arguing that it’s wrong to try to make a profit either, but I do believe there are moral limits in how you do so. While I accept that it is natural that animals (including humans) kill each other for food, I do think it can be done in a more humane manner. I do not believe that raising animal under conditions where it is suffering every instant of its existence is humane. I do not believe that frequently happens naturally in the wild either. This is, however, what happens often in factory farming (in order to maximize profit and meet high demand).
Give animals space, keep them healthy, allow them to enjoy their lives, and then kill them humanely, as needed for food. Doing this would require us as consumers to reduce our demand for meat by eating it less frequently and/or ensure we only purchase humanely raised meat because, otherwise, owners of factory farms do indeed have financial incentive to promote absurd amounts of suffering.
The "someone" in this instance is an animal, but the argument will apply to anyone we decide we can kill to increase our own enjoyment of life or to make things more convenient for us. I understand the argument that we CAN treat animals humanely before we decide to kill them, what I don't understand is the argument that we have a moral obligation to do so. If someone's own interest in continued life is considered irrelevant in the face of our desire for their death, what is the moral significance of their suffering, pain, or distress in all other stages of their life?2 -
I would prefer to raise and butcher my own meat. That isn't possible for several reasons; therefore, I try to buy from local producers whose farms I can go look at. I live in an area where there are CAFOs around, and that's not how I want my meat to live, so I have to do some research on local farms. Ideally, I'd prefer them to be happy, with one bad day.7
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The Game Changers is a compelling film for those who are on the fence and interested in the research without the gut wrenching film of suffering animals. For those who are not on the fence, you will find your reasons to support your beliefs.
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No documentaries tend to have too much of an agenda instead of presenting objective facts and data.7
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One year I was flying somewhere and watched “that sugar film” on the plane. It was a man who’s lady got pregnant and he decided to eat the average sugar intake of the average Australian and basically within 2 months had himself at pre-diabetic insulin resistance and had gained like 20kgs.
I’m a meat eater and always will be but for me it was a massive wake up call about the rest of my diet and how much filler foods are just crap food. I would say now veggies make up 85% of my diet3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Contrary to what most people are saying here, I certainly have been influenced by such documentaries. What has influenced me, however, is not the ‘gross’ factor or the nutrition factor either (if I could easily change my eating habits for better nutrition I would have given up sugar long before meat!). It’s also not the pure ethical argument - I see no problem with killing animals for food, I see this as the circle of life.
What such documentaries DID open my eyes to was how incredibly cruelly animals are treated when raised for meat on factory farms in the US and how this process is largely influenced by desire to profit by meeting the huge demand for meat in the US that far surpasses any true ‘need’ that we have. My clear takeaway from this was that it was very important for Americans to significantly *reduce* (but not necessarily eliminate) their meat consumption. As a result of such documentaries, I did end up going purely vegetarian for a short time (about 6 months). I say short time not because I just forgot/gave up/stopped caring, but because I moved abroad shortly thereafter. I moved somewhere where I would have very little control over my food, where vegetarianism isn’t a thing, and where animals are not raised on factory farms! For these reasons, I shifted back to meat eating not only due to need, but also due to the fact that my major concerns were not relevant in that context.
Since returning to the US, I have also returned to hugely limiting my meat consumption. I do not buy it at the grocery store, I do not cook it, I only (sometimes) eat it when going out to a restaurant or when someone else is cooking for me. I don’t see myself going back to my old ways thinking meat is a required part of every meal any time soon. The environmental argument is also starting to make more of an impact on me and reinforcing this approach. And, yes, this all came from a documentary I watched back in college!
I am intrigued by the argument that it's morally appropriate to end someone's life for pleasure or convenience but that one cannot take measures to make a profit off of doing so. If it's okay to eat someone, why would it be inappropriate to cause them discomfort, pain, or distress in the process? Presumably the "circle of life" contains all three of those experiences.
Just to make sure I’m understanding, the “someone” you are referring to is the animals, right? I don’t see this as problematic as, among other reasons, in the wild you find plenty of animals that kill other animals for food. Even those who cannot survive otherwise. This is a natural sequence of nature and how all flora and fauna have evolved to survive. I don’t see this as problematic. Humans are omnivores by nature (our canine teeth prove it).
And I’m not arguing that it’s wrong to try to make a profit either, but I do believe there are moral limits in how you do so. While I accept that it is natural that animals (including humans) kill each other for food, I do think it can be done in a more humane manner. I do not believe that raising animal under conditions where it is suffering every instant of its existence is humane. I do not believe that frequently happens naturally in the wild either. This is, however, what happens often in factory farming (in order to maximize profit and meet high demand).
Give animals space, keep them healthy, allow them to enjoy their lives, and then kill them humanely, as needed for food. Doing this would require us as consumers to reduce our demand for meat by eating it less frequently and/or ensure we only purchase humanely raised meat because, otherwise, owners of factory farms do indeed have financial incentive to promote absurd amounts of suffering.
I fully agree with you.
Not all farms are as cruel as some people think as well. (Local farms are generally kind to their livestock.)
Even some plants, fruits and vegetable are not actually healthy. (Bananas have high chances of disease if not protected.)3 -
JessiBelleW wrote: »One year I was flying somewhere and watched “that sugar film” on the plane. It was a man who’s lady got pregnant and he decided to eat the average sugar intake of the average Australian and basically within 2 months had himself at pre-diabetic insulin resistance and had gained like 20kgs.
I’m a meat eater and always will be but for me it was a massive wake up call about the rest of my diet and how much filler foods are just crap food. I would say now veggies make up 85% of my diet
We can't just look at sugar intake, because you can eat 200g of sugar a day and still be lean, that's entirely possible. The guy gained all that weight because he ate more calories.
If he had decided to replace some calories with sugar while still eating the same number of calories he wouldn't have gained all that weight.6 -
Not a particular documentary but I just hear so much generally from friends, social media and news that I follow that eating a lot of meat is bad for the environment. I don't need to watch a graphic documentary to understand that.
So I have cut down my red meat intake (which is by far the worst), and I eat mostly poultry, fish and vegetarian meals. I'll occasionally have red meat if we are eating out or on holiday.
It works fine for me, I don't feel deprived and feel like I am doing my (very tiny) bit.2 -
Not a particular documentary but I just hear so much generally from friends, social media and news that I follow that eating a lot of meat is bad for the environment. I don't need to watch a graphic documentary to understand that.
So I have cut down my red meat intake (which is by far the worst), and I eat mostly poultry, fish and vegetarian meals. I'll occasionally have red meat if we are eating out or on holiday.
It works fine for me, I don't feel deprived and feel like I am doing my (very tiny) bit.
I think this is the thing for me. I have gradually moved to a more plant based diet because of environmental and social impacts. I do this for the same reason I try to minimise plastic use, recycle, and buy fair trade tea.
I cannot solve the problems, but I can make choices that have very little impact on my life and have some small positive consequences.4 -
Absolutely. "More plant-based" as opposed as exclusively plant-based.
I found nutritionfacts.org on youtube back in 2015, after having lost 85lbs. About 80% made sense and I quickly detected the agenda which makes the site name half truths, with cherry pickings here and there.
Still very relevant in my opinion and I learned a lot. If I have to define my eating would be flexitarian, with a lot of various veggies.
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janejellyroll wrote: »Contrary to what most people are saying here, I certainly have been influenced by such documentaries. What has influenced me, however, is not the ‘gross’ factor or the nutrition factor either (if I could easily change my eating habits for better nutrition I would have given up sugar long before meat!). It’s also not the pure ethical argument - I see no problem with killing animals for food, I see this as the circle of life.
What such documentaries DID open my eyes to was how incredibly cruelly animals are treated when raised for meat on factory farms in the US and how this process is largely influenced by desire to profit by meeting the huge demand for meat in the US that far surpasses any true ‘need’ that we have. My clear takeaway from this was that it was very important for Americans to significantly *reduce* (but not necessarily eliminate) their meat consumption. As a result of such documentaries, I did end up going purely vegetarian for a short time (about 6 months). I say short time not because I just forgot/gave up/stopped caring, but because I moved abroad shortly thereafter. I moved somewhere where I would have very little control over my food, where vegetarianism isn’t a thing, and where animals are not raised on factory farms! For these reasons, I shifted back to meat eating not only due to need, but also due to the fact that my major concerns were not relevant in that context.
Since returning to the US, I have also returned to hugely limiting my meat consumption. I do not buy it at the grocery store, I do not cook it, I only (sometimes) eat it when going out to a restaurant or when someone else is cooking for me. I don’t see myself going back to my old ways thinking meat is a required part of every meal any time soon. The environmental argument is also starting to make more of an impact on me and reinforcing this approach. And, yes, this all came from a documentary I watched back in college!
I am intrigued by the argument that it's morally appropriate to end someone's life for pleasure or convenience but that one cannot take measures to make a profit off of doing so. If it's okay to eat someone, why would it be inappropriate to cause them discomfort, pain, or distress in the process? Presumably the "circle of life" contains all three of those experiences.
Just to make sure I’m understanding, the “someone” you are referring to is the animals, right? I don’t see this as problematic as, among other reasons, in the wild you find plenty of animals that kill other animals for food. Even those who cannot survive otherwise. This is a natural sequence of nature and how all flora and fauna have evolved to survive. I don’t see this as problematic. Humans are omnivores by nature (our canine teeth prove it).
And I’m not arguing that it’s wrong to try to make a profit either, but I do believe there are moral limits in how you do so. While I accept that it is natural that animals (including humans) kill each other for food, I do think it can be done in a more humane manner. I do not believe that raising animal under conditions where it is suffering every instant of its existence is humane. I do not believe that frequently happens naturally in the wild either. This is, however, what happens often in factory farming (in order to maximize profit and meet high demand).
Give animals space, keep them healthy, allow them to enjoy their lives, and then kill them humanely, as needed for food. Doing this would require us as consumers to reduce our demand for meat by eating it less frequently and/or ensure we only purchase humanely raised meat because, otherwise, owners of factory farms do indeed have financial incentive to promote absurd amounts of suffering.
I fully agree with you.
Not all farms are as cruel as some people think as well. (Local farms are generally kind to their livestock.)
Even some plants, fruits and vegetable are not actually healthy. (Bananas have high chances of disease if not protected.)
I think your definition of "kind" must vary substantially from mine.1 -
Nope, never. Some are interesting too see and learn about different viewpoints, but I'll eat what I want regardless.
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janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Contrary to what most people are saying here, I certainly have been influenced by such documentaries. What has influenced me, however, is not the ‘gross’ factor or the nutrition factor either (if I could easily change my eating habits for better nutrition I would have given up sugar long before meat!). It’s also not the pure ethical argument - I see no problem with killing animals for food, I see this as the circle of life.
What such documentaries DID open my eyes to was how incredibly cruelly animals are treated when raised for meat on factory farms in the US and how this process is largely influenced by desire to profit by meeting the huge demand for meat in the US that far surpasses any true ‘need’ that we have. My clear takeaway from this was that it was very important for Americans to significantly *reduce* (but not necessarily eliminate) their meat consumption. As a result of such documentaries, I did end up going purely vegetarian for a short time (about 6 months). I say short time not because I just forgot/gave up/stopped caring, but because I moved abroad shortly thereafter. I moved somewhere where I would have very little control over my food, where vegetarianism isn’t a thing, and where animals are not raised on factory farms! For these reasons, I shifted back to meat eating not only due to need, but also due to the fact that my major concerns were not relevant in that context.
Since returning to the US, I have also returned to hugely limiting my meat consumption. I do not buy it at the grocery store, I do not cook it, I only (sometimes) eat it when going out to a restaurant or when someone else is cooking for me. I don’t see myself going back to my old ways thinking meat is a required part of every meal any time soon. The environmental argument is also starting to make more of an impact on me and reinforcing this approach. And, yes, this all came from a documentary I watched back in college!
I am intrigued by the argument that it's morally appropriate to end someone's life for pleasure or convenience but that one cannot take measures to make a profit off of doing so. If it's okay to eat someone, why would it be inappropriate to cause them discomfort, pain, or distress in the process? Presumably the "circle of life" contains all three of those experiences.
Just to make sure I’m understanding, the “someone” you are referring to is the animals, right? I don’t see this as problematic as, among other reasons, in the wild you find plenty of animals that kill other animals for food. Even those who cannot survive otherwise. This is a natural sequence of nature and how all flora and fauna have evolved to survive. I don’t see this as problematic. Humans are omnivores by nature (our canine teeth prove it).
And I’m not arguing that it’s wrong to try to make a profit either, but I do believe there are moral limits in how you do so. While I accept that it is natural that animals (including humans) kill each other for food, I do think it can be done in a more humane manner. I do not believe that raising animal under conditions where it is suffering every instant of its existence is humane. I do not believe that frequently happens naturally in the wild either. This is, however, what happens often in factory farming (in order to maximize profit and meet high demand).
Give animals space, keep them healthy, allow them to enjoy their lives, and then kill them humanely, as needed for food. Doing this would require us as consumers to reduce our demand for meat by eating it less frequently and/or ensure we only purchase humanely raised meat because, otherwise, owners of factory farms do indeed have financial incentive to promote absurd amounts of suffering.
I fully agree with you.
Not all farms are as cruel as some people think as well. (Local farms are generally kind to their livestock.)
Even some plants, fruits and vegetable are not actually healthy. (Bananas have high chances of disease if not protected.)
I think your definition of "kind" must vary substantially from mine.
Do you believe that kindness and exploitation are mutually exclusive?1 -
I was greatly influenced by Michael Pollen's "The Omnivore's Dilemma," his other books and articles, and to a lesser extent, possibly because I watched it subsequently, "Food, Inc."
I saw "Food, Inc." in a theater, so must have read "The Omnivore's Dilemma" shortly after it came out in 2006, and it has had a lasting influence on me.
I do eat meat, but try to be more educated and conscious about my choices.
https://smile.amazon.com/Omnivores-Dilemma-Natural-History-Meals/dp/1594200823/
@lemurcat2 interested in your thoughts on this topic.3 -
kshama2001 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Contrary to what most people are saying here, I certainly have been influenced by such documentaries. What has influenced me, however, is not the ‘gross’ factor or the nutrition factor either (if I could easily change my eating habits for better nutrition I would have given up sugar long before meat!). It’s also not the pure ethical argument - I see no problem with killing animals for food, I see this as the circle of life.
What such documentaries DID open my eyes to was how incredibly cruelly animals are treated when raised for meat on factory farms in the US and how this process is largely influenced by desire to profit by meeting the huge demand for meat in the US that far surpasses any true ‘need’ that we have. My clear takeaway from this was that it was very important for Americans to significantly *reduce* (but not necessarily eliminate) their meat consumption. As a result of such documentaries, I did end up going purely vegetarian for a short time (about 6 months). I say short time not because I just forgot/gave up/stopped caring, but because I moved abroad shortly thereafter. I moved somewhere where I would have very little control over my food, where vegetarianism isn’t a thing, and where animals are not raised on factory farms! For these reasons, I shifted back to meat eating not only due to need, but also due to the fact that my major concerns were not relevant in that context.
Since returning to the US, I have also returned to hugely limiting my meat consumption. I do not buy it at the grocery store, I do not cook it, I only (sometimes) eat it when going out to a restaurant or when someone else is cooking for me. I don’t see myself going back to my old ways thinking meat is a required part of every meal any time soon. The environmental argument is also starting to make more of an impact on me and reinforcing this approach. And, yes, this all came from a documentary I watched back in college!
I am intrigued by the argument that it's morally appropriate to end someone's life for pleasure or convenience but that one cannot take measures to make a profit off of doing so. If it's okay to eat someone, why would it be inappropriate to cause them discomfort, pain, or distress in the process? Presumably the "circle of life" contains all three of those experiences.
Just to make sure I’m understanding, the “someone” you are referring to is the animals, right? I don’t see this as problematic as, among other reasons, in the wild you find plenty of animals that kill other animals for food. Even those who cannot survive otherwise. This is a natural sequence of nature and how all flora and fauna have evolved to survive. I don’t see this as problematic. Humans are omnivores by nature (our canine teeth prove it).
And I’m not arguing that it’s wrong to try to make a profit either, but I do believe there are moral limits in how you do so. While I accept that it is natural that animals (including humans) kill each other for food, I do think it can be done in a more humane manner. I do not believe that raising animal under conditions where it is suffering every instant of its existence is humane. I do not believe that frequently happens naturally in the wild either. This is, however, what happens often in factory farming (in order to maximize profit and meet high demand).
Give animals space, keep them healthy, allow them to enjoy their lives, and then kill them humanely, as needed for food. Doing this would require us as consumers to reduce our demand for meat by eating it less frequently and/or ensure we only purchase humanely raised meat because, otherwise, owners of factory farms do indeed have financial incentive to promote absurd amounts of suffering.
I fully agree with you.
Not all farms are as cruel as some people think as well. (Local farms are generally kind to their livestock.)
Even some plants, fruits and vegetable are not actually healthy. (Bananas have high chances of disease if not protected.)
I think your definition of "kind" must vary substantially from mine.
Do you believe that kindness and exploitation are mutually exclusive?
Yes, especially when it involves slaughter. Kindness, as I define it, involves treating individuals with consideration for their individuality and not as mere means to an end. I see no way to reconcile farming practices that involve separation of young from parents or slaughter (either for the primary purpose of meat or when a laying chicken or diary cow is "spent") with kindness, as I understand it.
I realize that people who include these practices in their definition of "kindness" may be using a different definition, one that is valid for them. Let's say I decide to treat someone with a level of consideration that is also compatible with ultimately treating them as an object to meet my desired ends, regardless of the ultimate harm to their wellbeing. An argument can be made that one should consider that "kindness." I don't agree with that argument, but I understand it.
It comes down to: when we say a person engaged in farming is "kind" to the individuals we decide to call "livestock," what exactly does that mean? For some, it would mean they avoid the deliberate infliction of harm or emotional distress except when it is necessary to meet their desired goals.
A misconception about vegans is that we (as a group) believe that individuals engaged in farming are deliberately cruel, take delight in harming animals, or are maliciously sadistic. It isn't necessary to believe any of these things to object to common farming practices. I don't have to think someone is being deliberately "mean" to object to someone being hurt.5 -
I started getting more local sources for my meat and hunting for much of it as well. Usually bag some duck, geese and turkey in lieu of buying factory farmed chicken and try for a deer or moose so I buy less beef and pork. Still end up buying factory farmed meat, but half as much as I used to.4
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The Game Changers is a compelling film for those who are on the fence and interested in the research without the gut wrenching film of suffering animals. For those who are not on the fence, you will find your reasons to support your beliefs.
x2. I just watched it on Netflix. It is only one side, which annoys me. Nonetheless it is very well done.
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I've probably watched them all by this point and no, they haven't influenced me one way or the other. I've experimented with all sorts of different ways of eating and have settled on a way that works well for me. Going by energy levels, ease of weight management, blood work panels, health check ups etc. No harm in giving different ways of eating a try though, that's really the only way you'll be able to figure out what works/doesn't work for you.
As far as the propaganda 'documentaries' that try to shame people for their food choices, those just irritate me and I have very little tolerance for them.3 -
I understand why so many people are so influenced by these Netflix "documentaries." They why they are made is designed to create overwhelming emotion. I watched cowspiracy, despite knowing its propaganda, I still felt moved by it until one particular scene. It shows dairy cows exiting a milking parlor. Sad music plays the camera zooms in on the cows teats which are bright red, they look like raw sores on the cows. Its iodine. Iodine is a common disinfectant used for milking they wipe the cows teats with it, as well as the milkers to make sure everything is sterile. It was during that scene I realised that most of the film is sad music and images of things that could be seen as horrific to people who don't know any better.16
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Grace_spaceship wrote: »I understand why so many people are so influenced by these Netflix "documentaries." They why they are made is designed to create overwhelming emotion. I watched cowspiracy, despite knowing its propaganda, I still felt moved by it until one particular scene. It shows dairy cows exiting a milking parlor. Sad music plays the camera zooms in on the cows teats which are bright red, they look like raw sores on the cows. Its iodine. Iodine is a common disinfectant used for milking they wipe the cows teats with it, as well as the milkers to make sure everything is sterile. It was during that scene I realised that most of the film is sad music and images of things that could be seen as horrific to people who don't know any better.
I don't think there is any unknown context that could make slaughterhouse footage non-horrific to me. What is it that you think I need to know to make it seem okay?2
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