Do YOU personally eat back your workout calories?
Replies
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hell to the no, why work out if you're gonna undo it all1
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hell to the no, why work out if you're gonna undo it all
Because someone doesn't understand how MFP works compared to every other site out there, and thinks that a workout is purely to lose weight instead of the many multitude of better reasons.
And may not realize that getting the actual benefits from a good workout can be impaired by making a deficit to lose weight too big.
Or do you mean something else by "it" that will be undone?
Because frankly I'd rather not end up making my workouts suck by underfeeding them.
Why would I want to waste my time spinning my wheels getting little to no benefit from a workout compared to fueling it properly?7 -
I can't believe I haven't answered this yet since I'm a big advocator of eating every last calorie you can as long as you still meet your goals (weight loss/gain/maintenance).
I'm short, old, and at the lower end of my normal weight.
And I like cookies.
7 -
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Yes.
Not eating them would make it more difficult for my body to repair, it will affect progress and performance.
It would also make me hungry and miserable which is not fun or sustainable.
If this is going to be how I live my life I have to feel good along the way, for me it's not just about how quickly I can reach a number. I'll get there eventually, in the meantime there are other goals to be met that need feeding.2 -
No. My daily calorie goal assumes I workout 4-5 times/week, so no need to add calories for exercise. However, if I do a high-intensity, long (90 minute+) workout, a race, or something equivalent, I will add a few hundred calories on that day to compensate.0
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BABeautifulBadass wrote: »No. My daily calorie goal assumes I workout 4-5 times/week, so no need to add calories for exercise. However, if I do a high-intensity, long (90 minute+) workout, a race, or something equivalent, I will add a few hundred calories on that day to compensate.
You are eating them back then, you're just using a method of calculation that gives them to you upfront (as opposed to MFP's method, which gives you a base calorie goal assuming there is no intentional exercise being done).5 -
BABeautifulBadass wrote: »No. My daily calorie goal assumes I workout 4-5 times/week, so no need to add calories for exercise. However, if I do a high-intensity, long (90 minute+) workout, a race, or something equivalent, I will add a few hundred calories on that day to compensate.
Excellent way to explain the difference.
But if you think about it - in actuality you are eating back the exercise calories because you are accounting for them as part of your daily burn, weekly amount average out daily.
You just accounted for them before taking a deficit and making an eating goal.
MFP accounts for them after taking a deficit and making an eating goal - which then changes when you do exercise.
The question is always about MFP's method of doing it.4 -
Ok, who owes who a coke? and I only do diet if it matters.
@BABeautifulBadass - that TDEE method you do is also what confuses some people that don't understand what's going on - since if the exercise is skipped you could lose a deficit and not lose weight, it's what causes some to think exercise is required for weight loss.4 -
I really think it depends on the person. I do sometimes and I don't sometimes.
MFP forum veterans are sticklers for weighing and measuring every morsel of food. So much so that if a person isn't losing weight and asks for advice, everyone jumps on them to open their diary so that they can prove that that person is not logging accurately and therefore eating too many calories.
What is funny to me is that those same people will go crazy over people saying that they are not eating exercise calories back or if someone is eating at 1200 calories. If you have already established that most people are eating more-- enough to where they aren't losing weight, then why does it matter if they choose not to eat calories back and create a small deficit there instead?
The reality is that many people won't be exact in logging. And they probably ARE eating more than they think... which means they probably won't see the results they want if they eat back all of their calories.
If you are really great at measuring and tracking, then you can probably eat them back and be fine. If you aren't so great at it, don't want the hassle, and find that you aren't seeing the results you want, don't eat them back and see if that helps.2 -
breefoshee wrote: »I really think it depends on the person. I do sometimes and I don't sometimes.
MFP forum veterans are sticklers for weighing and measuring every morsel of food. So much so that if a person isn't losing weight and asks for advice, everyone jumps on them to open their diary so that they can prove that that person is not logging accurately and therefore eating too many calories.
What is funny to me is that those same people will go crazy over people saying that they are not eating exercise calories back or if someone is eating at 1200 calories. If you have already established that most people are eating more-- enough to where they aren't losing weight, then why does it matter if they choose not to eat calories back and create a small deficit there instead?
.
A bit of a caricature. Aside from inaccurate logging (which, let's be honest, is often discovered when looking at the posters diary, but not always), forum veterans also cite inflated calorie burns (exercise calories and fitness trackers) for not losing weight at the desired rate (starting to eat back a part of exercise/activity calories and looking at the weight trend to eat back less or more) and the simple fact that not everyone conforms to the statistical average.
Some people are actually not losing weight or losing it more slowly because their deficit is too aggressive - for example by not eating back their exercise calories on top of an already aggressive weight loss rate. Water retention wreaking havoc, low energy levels, etc.
So yeah, it does matter whether or not people eat back their exercise calories.
For some it compensates for inaccurate logging, for others it means they are sabotaging their weight loss because they are running themselves into the ground.6 -
breefoshee wrote: »I really think it depends on the person. I do sometimes and I don't sometimes.
MFP forum veterans are sticklers for weighing and measuring every morsel of food. So much so that if a person isn't losing weight and asks for advice, everyone jumps on them to open their diary so that they can prove that that person is not logging accurately and therefore eating too many calories.
What is funny to me is that those same people will go crazy over people saying that they are not eating exercise calories back or if someone is eating at 1200 calories. If you have already established that most people are eating more-- enough to where they aren't losing weight, then why does it matter if they choose not to eat calories back and create a small deficit there instead?
The reality is that many people won't be exact in logging. And they probably ARE eating more than they think... which means they probably won't see the results they want if they eat back all of their calories.
If you are really great at measuring and tracking, then you can probably eat them back and be fine. If you aren't so great at it, don't want the hassle, and find that you aren't seeing the results you want, don't eat them back and see if that helps.
If someone isn't losing weight when they're supposedly in a calorie deficit, the general most obvious answer is that they're accidentally eating more than they think you are. We're less "jumping" on people than offering help to people who are frustrated and asking for advice. What do you suggest - that we ignore what repeatedly been demonstrated to be the most likely cause of their frustration?
I have not seen a post where someone has gone "crazy" because someone isn't eating back their exercise calories. I'll defer to your experience here since you're claiming to see the same people do this repeatedly. I do see people recommending it to people who have very low calorie goals or are suffering from extreme hunger or lack of energy. Again, these are people asking for advice. If someone is eating much less than they need and asking for advice to deal with the consequences, I don't know what you would have people recommend other than "hey, you can eat back some of calories you're leaving on the table!"5 -
No- I find that I lose about 5 pounds per month on average. That is right within the goal I have set for myself. I look at exercise as something I do for my health, eating in a calorie deficit I do for weight loss. I am happy with my progress, it works for me so I am going to continue along this path.1
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Ok, who owes who a coke? and I only do diet if it matters.
@BABeautifulBadass - that TDEE method you do is also what confuses some people that don't understand what's going on - since if the exercise is skipped you could lose a deficit and not lose weight, it's what causes some to think exercise is required for weight loss.
You are correct. I habitually work out 5-6 days/week and dont skip, so I can set my daily calories assuming that to be the case. The 1-2 days/week I might not workout, and therefore eat basically at maintenance, do not stall my weight loss. If someone doesn't work out religiously, then fewer daily calories and adding more for exercise probably makes more sense.
The method I use has helped me end an unhealthy relationship with cardio and helped me focus on eating for weight loss and exercising for health. Obviously it may not be right for everyone.1 -
breefoshee wrote: »I really think it depends on the person. I do sometimes and I don't sometimes.
MFP forum veterans are sticklers for weighing and measuring every morsel of food. So much so that if a person isn't losing weight and asks for advice, everyone jumps on them to open their diary so that they can prove that that person is not logging accurately and therefore eating too many calories.
What is funny to me is that those same people will go crazy over people saying that they are not eating exercise calories back or if someone is eating at 1200 calories. If you have already established that most people are eating more-- enough to where they aren't losing weight, then why does it matter if they choose not to eat calories back and create a small deficit there instead?
.
A bit of a caricature. Aside from inaccurate logging (which, let's be honest, is often discovered when looking at the posters diary, but not always), forum veterans also cite inflated calorie burns (exercise calories and fitness trackers) for not losing weight at the desired rate (starting to eat back a part of exercise/activity calories and looking at the weight trend to eat back less or more) and the simple fact that not everyone conforms to the statistical average.
Some people are actually not losing weight or losing it more slowly because their deficit is too aggressive - for example by not eating back their exercise calories on top of an already aggressive weight loss rate. Water retention wreaking havoc, low energy levels, etc.
So yeah, it does matter whether or not people eat back their exercise calories.
For some it compensates for inaccurate logging, for others it means they are sabotaging their weight loss because they are running themselves into the ground.
I think it matters for the individual, but the advice given to many is the same. Weigh and measure, eat your calories back..... sorta. Many in this thread spoke about how Myfitnesspal was meant to be used and how you are supposed to eat your calories back. But if myfitnesspal inflates calorie burns, then do we disregard how myfitnesspal was supposed to be used?
And for the weighing and measuring... while a calorie deficit is necessary for weight loss, accurate calorie counting is not. People lose weight all the time without counting a single calorie. For some who love the numbers and the control, it is great. For others, perfect measuring may not be a sustainable reality and they just log on the fly.
I wish that there were more diverse responses for those people. I get that it is simple math and a deficit. I get that you can guarantee (mostly) the deficit by weighing and measuring. But some people just are not going to do it and I hate that it is so cut and dry because those people can still lose weight.2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »breefoshee wrote: »I really think it depends on the person. I do sometimes and I don't sometimes.
MFP forum veterans are sticklers for weighing and measuring every morsel of food. So much so that if a person isn't losing weight and asks for advice, everyone jumps on them to open their diary so that they can prove that that person is not logging accurately and therefore eating too many calories.
What is funny to me is that those same people will go crazy over people saying that they are not eating exercise calories back or if someone is eating at 1200 calories. If you have already established that most people are eating more-- enough to where they aren't losing weight, then why does it matter if they choose not to eat calories back and create a small deficit there instead?
The reality is that many people won't be exact in logging. And they probably ARE eating more than they think... which means they probably won't see the results they want if they eat back all of their calories.
If you are really great at measuring and tracking, then you can probably eat them back and be fine. If you aren't so great at it, don't want the hassle, and find that you aren't seeing the results you want, don't eat them back and see if that helps.
If someone isn't losing weight when they're supposedly in a calorie deficit, the general most obvious answer is that they're accidentally eating more than they think you are. We're less "jumping" on people than offering help to people who are frustrated and asking for advice. What do you suggest - that we ignore what repeatedly been demonstrated to be the most likely cause of their frustration?
I have not seen a post where someone has gone "crazy" because someone isn't eating back their exercise calories. I'll defer to your experience here since you're claiming to see the same people do this repeatedly. I do see people recommending it to people who have very low calorie goals or are suffering from extreme hunger or lack of energy. Again, these are people asking for advice. If someone is eating much less than they need and asking for advice to deal with the consequences, I don't know what you would have people recommend other than "hey, you can eat back some of calories you're leaving on the table!"
I have been a myfitnesspal forum lurker for like 10 years (I've had some other accounts besides the one I have now.) What I have often seen is cut and dry, matter of fact, often condescending answers to people who oppose people with more than 1,000 comments next to their name. This isn't EVERY person-- I have seen many really kind and helpful people too.
But it almost never fails that people who ask "what am I doing wrong?" or "should i eat more than 1200 calories" or "I'm eating really clean"... will be met with some snark and a heavy does of "measure, measure, measure". I get that people are asking for this advice... but if someone is giving advice that isn't "measure" or "eat back your calories" then those responses are dismissed right away.
Personally, I have never been able to be as perfect as what the forums have recommended to me. After years of calculating TDEE, rearranging macros, and weighing every single thing, attempting heavy lifting, I've actually never been successful at doing those things. What's more is that I became so obsessed with numbers and control that I developed a full blown eating disorder (that thankfully, I no longer struggle with). I was actually more successful at weight loss and overall health, before I joined MFP and started obsessing over the numbers.
I wish someone would have told me 10 years ago that I didn't have to do all that to lose weight.
You can tell if you are in a deficit if you are losing weight over time. If you aren't, then look at how much you are eating and your patterns. If measuring isn't your thing, then make conscious decisions to eat less and observe the results. Losing too much? Eat more.4 -
breefoshee wrote: »breefoshee wrote: »I really think it depends on the person. I do sometimes and I don't sometimes.
MFP forum veterans are sticklers for weighing and measuring every morsel of food. So much so that if a person isn't losing weight and asks for advice, everyone jumps on them to open their diary so that they can prove that that person is not logging accurately and therefore eating too many calories.
What is funny to me is that those same people will go crazy over people saying that they are not eating exercise calories back or if someone is eating at 1200 calories. If you have already established that most people are eating more-- enough to where they aren't losing weight, then why does it matter if they choose not to eat calories back and create a small deficit there instead?
.
A bit of a caricature. Aside from inaccurate logging (which, let's be honest, is often discovered when looking at the posters diary, but not always), forum veterans also cite inflated calorie burns (exercise calories and fitness trackers) for not losing weight at the desired rate (starting to eat back a part of exercise/activity calories and looking at the weight trend to eat back less or more) and the simple fact that not everyone conforms to the statistical average.
Some people are actually not losing weight or losing it more slowly because their deficit is too aggressive - for example by not eating back their exercise calories on top of an already aggressive weight loss rate. Water retention wreaking havoc, low energy levels, etc.
So yeah, it does matter whether or not people eat back their exercise calories.
For some it compensates for inaccurate logging, for others it means they are sabotaging their weight loss because they are running themselves into the ground.
I think it matters for the individual, but the advice given to many is the same. Weigh and measure, eat your calories back..... sorta. Many in this thread spoke about how Myfitnesspal was meant to be used and how you are supposed to eat your calories back. But if myfitnesspal inflates calorie burns, then do we disregard how myfitnesspal was supposed to be used?
And for the weighing and measuring... while a calorie deficit is necessary for weight loss, accurate calorie counting is not. People lose weight all the time without counting a single calorie. For some who love the numbers and the control, it is great. For others, perfect measuring may not be a sustainable reality and they just log on the fly.
I wish that there were more diverse responses for those people. I get that it is simple math and a deficit. I get that you can guarantee (mostly) the deficit by weighing and measuring. But some people just are not going to do it and I hate that it is so cut and dry because those people can still lose weight.
Eating 100% of the MFP exercise calories may not be the right number for some people. But why then argue that 0% is the right number? That's why the suggestion is often to start at 50% and readjust as needed.3 -
breefoshee wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »breefoshee wrote: »I really think it depends on the person. I do sometimes and I don't sometimes.
MFP forum veterans are sticklers for weighing and measuring every morsel of food. So much so that if a person isn't losing weight and asks for advice, everyone jumps on them to open their diary so that they can prove that that person is not logging accurately and therefore eating too many calories.
What is funny to me is that those same people will go crazy over people saying that they are not eating exercise calories back or if someone is eating at 1200 calories. If you have already established that most people are eating more-- enough to where they aren't losing weight, then why does it matter if they choose not to eat calories back and create a small deficit there instead?
The reality is that many people won't be exact in logging. And they probably ARE eating more than they think... which means they probably won't see the results they want if they eat back all of their calories.
If you are really great at measuring and tracking, then you can probably eat them back and be fine. If you aren't so great at it, don't want the hassle, and find that you aren't seeing the results you want, don't eat them back and see if that helps.
If someone isn't losing weight when they're supposedly in a calorie deficit, the general most obvious answer is that they're accidentally eating more than they think you are. We're less "jumping" on people than offering help to people who are frustrated and asking for advice. What do you suggest - that we ignore what repeatedly been demonstrated to be the most likely cause of their frustration?
I have not seen a post where someone has gone "crazy" because someone isn't eating back their exercise calories. I'll defer to your experience here since you're claiming to see the same people do this repeatedly. I do see people recommending it to people who have very low calorie goals or are suffering from extreme hunger or lack of energy. Again, these are people asking for advice. If someone is eating much less than they need and asking for advice to deal with the consequences, I don't know what you would have people recommend other than "hey, you can eat back some of calories you're leaving on the table!"
I have been a myfitnesspal forum lurker for like 10 years (I've had some other accounts besides the one I have now.) What I have often seen is cut and dry, matter of fact, often condescending answers to people who oppose people with more than 1,000 comments next to their name. This isn't EVERY person-- I have seen many really kind and helpful people too.
But it almost never fails that people who ask "what am I doing wrong?" or "should i eat more than 1200 calories" or "I'm eating really clean"... will be met with some snark and a heavy does of "measure, measure, measure". I get that people are asking for this advice... but if someone is giving advice that isn't "measure" or "eat back your calories" then those responses are dismissed right away.
Personally, I have never been able to be as perfect as what the forums have recommended to me. After years of calculating TDEE, rearranging macros, and weighing every single thing, attempting heavy lifting, I've actually never been successful at doing those things. What's more is that I became so obsessed with numbers and control that I developed a full blown eating disorder (that thankfully, I no longer struggle with). I was actually more successful at weight loss and overall health, before I joined MFP and started obsessing over the numbers.
I wish someone would have told me 10 years ago that I didn't have to do all that to lose weight.
You can tell if you are in a deficit if you are losing weight over time. If you aren't, then look at how much you are eating and your patterns. If measuring isn't your thing, then make conscious decisions to eat less and observe the results. Losing too much? Eat more.
Look, if someone said, "I have an eating disorder and calorie counting hurts my brain" I wouldn't insist they count calories. I would refer them to their treatment team, or suggest they get one if they don't.
But otherwise, for people who are using MFP, I think the best advice is help on using MFP correctly.3 -
kshama2001 wrote: »breefoshee wrote: »breefoshee wrote: »I really think it depends on the person. I do sometimes and I don't sometimes.
MFP forum veterans are sticklers for weighing and measuring every morsel of food. So much so that if a person isn't losing weight and asks for advice, everyone jumps on them to open their diary so that they can prove that that person is not logging accurately and therefore eating too many calories.
What is funny to me is that those same people will go crazy over people saying that they are not eating exercise calories back or if someone is eating at 1200 calories. If you have already established that most people are eating more-- enough to where they aren't losing weight, then why does it matter if they choose not to eat calories back and create a small deficit there instead?
.
A bit of a caricature. Aside from inaccurate logging (which, let's be honest, is often discovered when looking at the posters diary, but not always), forum veterans also cite inflated calorie burns (exercise calories and fitness trackers) for not losing weight at the desired rate (starting to eat back a part of exercise/activity calories and looking at the weight trend to eat back less or more) and the simple fact that not everyone conforms to the statistical average.
Some people are actually not losing weight or losing it more slowly because their deficit is too aggressive - for example by not eating back their exercise calories on top of an already aggressive weight loss rate. Water retention wreaking havoc, low energy levels, etc.
So yeah, it does matter whether or not people eat back their exercise calories.
For some it compensates for inaccurate logging, for others it means they are sabotaging their weight loss because they are running themselves into the ground.
I think it matters for the individual, but the advice given to many is the same. Weigh and measure, eat your calories back..... sorta. Many in this thread spoke about how Myfitnesspal was meant to be used and how you are supposed to eat your calories back. But if myfitnesspal inflates calorie burns, then do we disregard how myfitnesspal was supposed to be used?
And for the weighing and measuring... while a calorie deficit is necessary for weight loss, accurate calorie counting is not. People lose weight all the time without counting a single calorie. For some who love the numbers and the control, it is great. For others, perfect measuring may not be a sustainable reality and they just log on the fly.
I wish that there were more diverse responses for those people. I get that it is simple math and a deficit. I get that you can guarantee (mostly) the deficit by weighing and measuring. But some people just are not going to do it and I hate that it is so cut and dry because those people can still lose weight.
Eating 100% of the MFP exercise calories may not be the right number for some people. But why then argue that 0% is the right number? That's why the suggestion is often to start at 50% and readjust as needed.
I didn't argue for 0%...I said it would be different for each person. But it could be 0% if a person isn't losing weight and does not want to weigh and measure.2 -
kshama2001 wrote: »breefoshee wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »breefoshee wrote: »I really think it depends on the person. I do sometimes and I don't sometimes.
MFP forum veterans are sticklers for weighing and measuring every morsel of food. So much so that if a person isn't losing weight and asks for advice, everyone jumps on them to open their diary so that they can prove that that person is not logging accurately and therefore eating too many calories.
What is funny to me is that those same people will go crazy over people saying that they are not eating exercise calories back or if someone is eating at 1200 calories. If you have already established that most people are eating more-- enough to where they aren't losing weight, then why does it matter if they choose not to eat calories back and create a small deficit there instead?
The reality is that many people won't be exact in logging. And they probably ARE eating more than they think... which means they probably won't see the results they want if they eat back all of their calories.
If you are really great at measuring and tracking, then you can probably eat them back and be fine. If you aren't so great at it, don't want the hassle, and find that you aren't seeing the results you want, don't eat them back and see if that helps.
If someone isn't losing weight when they're supposedly in a calorie deficit, the general most obvious answer is that they're accidentally eating more than they think you are. We're less "jumping" on people than offering help to people who are frustrated and asking for advice. What do you suggest - that we ignore what repeatedly been demonstrated to be the most likely cause of their frustration?
I have not seen a post where someone has gone "crazy" because someone isn't eating back their exercise calories. I'll defer to your experience here since you're claiming to see the same people do this repeatedly. I do see people recommending it to people who have very low calorie goals or are suffering from extreme hunger or lack of energy. Again, these are people asking for advice. If someone is eating much less than they need and asking for advice to deal with the consequences, I don't know what you would have people recommend other than "hey, you can eat back some of calories you're leaving on the table!"
I have been a myfitnesspal forum lurker for like 10 years (I've had some other accounts besides the one I have now.) What I have often seen is cut and dry, matter of fact, often condescending answers to people who oppose people with more than 1,000 comments next to their name. This isn't EVERY person-- I have seen many really kind and helpful people too.
But it almost never fails that people who ask "what am I doing wrong?" or "should i eat more than 1200 calories" or "I'm eating really clean"... will be met with some snark and a heavy does of "measure, measure, measure". I get that people are asking for this advice... but if someone is giving advice that isn't "measure" or "eat back your calories" then those responses are dismissed right away.
Personally, I have never been able to be as perfect as what the forums have recommended to me. After years of calculating TDEE, rearranging macros, and weighing every single thing, attempting heavy lifting, I've actually never been successful at doing those things. What's more is that I became so obsessed with numbers and control that I developed a full blown eating disorder (that thankfully, I no longer struggle with). I was actually more successful at weight loss and overall health, before I joined MFP and started obsessing over the numbers.
I wish someone would have told me 10 years ago that I didn't have to do all that to lose weight.
You can tell if you are in a deficit if you are losing weight over time. If you aren't, then look at how much you are eating and your patterns. If measuring isn't your thing, then make conscious decisions to eat less and observe the results. Losing too much? Eat more.
Look, if someone said, "I have an eating disorder and calorie counting hurts my brain" I wouldn't insist they count calories. I would refer them to their treatment team, or suggest they get one if they don't.
But otherwise, for people who are using MFP, I think the best advice is help on using MFP correctly.
I wouldn't have asked in that way because I didn't have an eating disorder then. I developed one as I become obsessed with the numbers and frustrated with my results.
You say that the best advice is to "use MFP correctly"... but above you said that you should eat 50% of your calories instead of all of your calories... which MFP was designed to do.
I agree with you--that you should access what is going on and figure out how much to eat. But "using MFP correctly" isn't so cut and dry. There are many wonderful ways to use MFP and make it customizable for the individual. Eating or not eating back excercise calories is just one of them.2 -
I find the TDEE method works best for me and is less confusing.
I remember years ago when I first started on MFP many people had told me the app gives everyone calories that are way too low and to use a calorie calculator instead to create my own goals and adjust from there whether I lose/gain so that’s what I did, but after reading the forums I discovered it’s intended so people eat back their burned calories which makes a lot more sense.
I know how much I burn now after years of accurate logging so I just use a weekly average.0 -
Oh hell yes! I would be bed ridden and completely devoid of energy without them. I tried, believe me, but bc I exercise pretty vigorously five days a week, there’s no way I could sustain this level of activity without those precious calories. I do bank about 100 of them a day for the weekend ( kinda like those lemon drops ) But I feel zero guilt about using all of them if the situation comes to that🙂1
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breefoshee wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »breefoshee wrote: »I really think it depends on the person. I do sometimes and I don't sometimes.
MFP forum veterans are sticklers for weighing and measuring every morsel of food. So much so that if a person isn't losing weight and asks for advice, everyone jumps on them to open their diary so that they can prove that that person is not logging accurately and therefore eating too many calories.
What is funny to me is that those same people will go crazy over people saying that they are not eating exercise calories back or if someone is eating at 1200 calories. If you have already established that most people are eating more-- enough to where they aren't losing weight, then why does it matter if they choose not to eat calories back and create a small deficit there instead?
The reality is that many people won't be exact in logging. And they probably ARE eating more than they think... which means they probably won't see the results they want if they eat back all of their calories.
If you are really great at measuring and tracking, then you can probably eat them back and be fine. If you aren't so great at it, don't want the hassle, and find that you aren't seeing the results you want, don't eat them back and see if that helps.
If someone isn't losing weight when they're supposedly in a calorie deficit, the general most obvious answer is that they're accidentally eating more than they think you are. We're less "jumping" on people than offering help to people who are frustrated and asking for advice. What do you suggest - that we ignore what repeatedly been demonstrated to be the most likely cause of their frustration?
I have not seen a post where someone has gone "crazy" because someone isn't eating back their exercise calories. I'll defer to your experience here since you're claiming to see the same people do this repeatedly. I do see people recommending it to people who have very low calorie goals or are suffering from extreme hunger or lack of energy. Again, these are people asking for advice. If someone is eating much less than they need and asking for advice to deal with the consequences, I don't know what you would have people recommend other than "hey, you can eat back some of calories you're leaving on the table!"
I have been a myfitnesspal forum lurker for like 10 years (I've had some other accounts besides the one I have now.) What I have often seen is cut and dry, matter of fact, often condescending answers to people who oppose people with more than 1,000 comments next to their name. This isn't EVERY person-- I have seen many really kind and helpful people too.
But it almost never fails that people who ask "what am I doing wrong?" or "should i eat more than 1200 calories" or "I'm eating really clean"... will be met with some snark and a heavy does of "measure, measure, measure". I get that people are asking for this advice... but if someone is giving advice that isn't "measure" or "eat back your calories" then those responses are dismissed right away.
Personally, I have never been able to be as perfect as what the forums have recommended to me. After years of calculating TDEE, rearranging macros, and weighing every single thing, attempting heavy lifting, I've actually never been successful at doing those things. What's more is that I became so obsessed with numbers and control that I developed a full blown eating disorder (that thankfully, I no longer struggle with). I was actually more successful at weight loss and overall health, before I joined MFP and started obsessing over the numbers.
I wish someone would have told me 10 years ago that I didn't have to do all that to lose weight.
You can tell if you are in a deficit if you are losing weight over time. If you aren't, then look at how much you are eating and your patterns. If measuring isn't your thing, then make conscious decisions to eat less and observe the results. Losing too much? Eat more.
If someone isn't losing weight, do you think the advice to make sure they're being reasonably accurate with estimating their intake is BAD or misguided? What would you recommend to someone who thinks they've been in a deficit for six weeks and hasn't lost any weight, especially if they're using less accurate methods of estimating how many calories they're eating?
I've never seen anybody here say that it is required to know one's TDEE or to weigh everything to lose weight. People can lose weight in a calorie deficit without even knowing what a calorie is. But if someone is having trouble creating that deficit, I'm really confused as to why specific advice to help them get there is inappropriate, especially given that this is a website specifically dedicated to counting calories. We're not going to be recommending rebalancing chakras.
There have been multiple threads over the years where people have said they either can't or won't count calories for reasons of mental health or anxiety prevention. I have never seen this result in someone saying they CAN'T lose weight, it's just that their path may be less direct than someone who is actually counting calories with reasonable accuracy.10 -
janejellyroll wrote: »breefoshee wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »breefoshee wrote: »I really think it depends on the person. I do sometimes and I don't sometimes.
MFP forum veterans are sticklers for weighing and measuring every morsel of food. So much so that if a person isn't losing weight and asks for advice, everyone jumps on them to open their diary so that they can prove that that person is not logging accurately and therefore eating too many calories.
What is funny to me is that those same people will go crazy over people saying that they are not eating exercise calories back or if someone is eating at 1200 calories. If you have already established that most people are eating more-- enough to where they aren't losing weight, then why does it matter if they choose not to eat calories back and create a small deficit there instead?
The reality is that many people won't be exact in logging. And they probably ARE eating more than they think... which means they probably won't see the results they want if they eat back all of their calories.
If you are really great at measuring and tracking, then you can probably eat them back and be fine. If you aren't so great at it, don't want the hassle, and find that you aren't seeing the results you want, don't eat them back and see if that helps.
If someone isn't losing weight when they're supposedly in a calorie deficit, the general most obvious answer is that they're accidentally eating more than they think you are. We're less "jumping" on people than offering help to people who are frustrated and asking for advice. What do you suggest - that we ignore what repeatedly been demonstrated to be the most likely cause of their frustration?
I have not seen a post where someone has gone "crazy" because someone isn't eating back their exercise calories. I'll defer to your experience here since you're claiming to see the same people do this repeatedly. I do see people recommending it to people who have very low calorie goals or are suffering from extreme hunger or lack of energy. Again, these are people asking for advice. If someone is eating much less than they need and asking for advice to deal with the consequences, I don't know what you would have people recommend other than "hey, you can eat back some of calories you're leaving on the table!"
I have been a myfitnesspal forum lurker for like 10 years (I've had some other accounts besides the one I have now.) What I have often seen is cut and dry, matter of fact, often condescending answers to people who oppose people with more than 1,000 comments next to their name. This isn't EVERY person-- I have seen many really kind and helpful people too.
But it almost never fails that people who ask "what am I doing wrong?" or "should i eat more than 1200 calories" or "I'm eating really clean"... will be met with some snark and a heavy does of "measure, measure, measure". I get that people are asking for this advice... but if someone is giving advice that isn't "measure" or "eat back your calories" then those responses are dismissed right away.
Personally, I have never been able to be as perfect as what the forums have recommended to me. After years of calculating TDEE, rearranging macros, and weighing every single thing, attempting heavy lifting, I've actually never been successful at doing those things. What's more is that I became so obsessed with numbers and control that I developed a full blown eating disorder (that thankfully, I no longer struggle with). I was actually more successful at weight loss and overall health, before I joined MFP and started obsessing over the numbers.
I wish someone would have told me 10 years ago that I didn't have to do all that to lose weight.
You can tell if you are in a deficit if you are losing weight over time. If you aren't, then look at how much you are eating and your patterns. If measuring isn't your thing, then make conscious decisions to eat less and observe the results. Losing too much? Eat more.
If someone isn't losing weight, do you think the advice to make sure they're being reasonably accurate with estimating their intake is BAD or misguided? What would you recommend to someone who thinks they've been in a deficit for six weeks and hasn't lost any weight, especially if they're using less accurate methods of estimating how many calories they're eating?
I've never seen anybody here say that it is required to know one's TDEE or to weigh everything to lose weight. People can lose weight in a calorie deficit without even knowing what a calorie is. But if someone is having trouble creating that deficit, I'm really confused as to why specific advice to help them get there is inappropriate, especially given that this is a website specifically dedicated to counting calories. We're not going to be recommending rebalancing chakras.
There have been multiple threads over the years where people have said they either can't or won't count calories for reasons of mental health or anxiety prevention. I have never seen this result in someone saying they CAN'T lose weight, it's just that their path may be less direct than someone who is actually counting calories with reasonable accuracy.
I believe it is mathematically correct advice. But literally every thread does not have to be "weigh and measure" and eat calories back. I can click on just about any given thread that will repeat this over and over for advice. There's more going on than people not knowing how buy a food scale.
And so when others give advice that isn't a repeat of this mantra, then they get all these disagrees and comments. This thread for example.... If a person says "heck no I don't eat calories back.... that just undoes my progress." Well...maybe for them it really does. And maybe the OP isn't a diligent tracker and would benefit from not eating calories back.
It's not that I think it is bad advice. But I do think it is the only allowed advice without feathers being ruffled and 10 people coming in to negate any advice because it doesn't fit with the weighing and measuring mantra. It's not so much maybe that people give this advice, but that they also have to debate everyone who comes up with a different response.
I know that many MFPers have been really successfully with this approach. But I've also seen a ton who have been here for years, preaching this approach and haven't been able to follow their own advice (me being one of them) and actually be successful at weight loss. We know the math... so what's wrong? Why is fad diet Kathy losing weight and keeping it off, while I sit here with my superior math and science and can't seem to stick to it? Sometimes, it's not just that.4 -
breefoshee wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »breefoshee wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »breefoshee wrote: »I really think it depends on the person. I do sometimes and I don't sometimes.
MFP forum veterans are sticklers for weighing and measuring every morsel of food. So much so that if a person isn't losing weight and asks for advice, everyone jumps on them to open their diary so that they can prove that that person is not logging accurately and therefore eating too many calories.
What is funny to me is that those same people will go crazy over people saying that they are not eating exercise calories back or if someone is eating at 1200 calories. If you have already established that most people are eating more-- enough to where they aren't losing weight, then why does it matter if they choose not to eat calories back and create a small deficit there instead?
The reality is that many people won't be exact in logging. And they probably ARE eating more than they think... which means they probably won't see the results they want if they eat back all of their calories.
If you are really great at measuring and tracking, then you can probably eat them back and be fine. If you aren't so great at it, don't want the hassle, and find that you aren't seeing the results you want, don't eat them back and see if that helps.
If someone isn't losing weight when they're supposedly in a calorie deficit, the general most obvious answer is that they're accidentally eating more than they think you are. We're less "jumping" on people than offering help to people who are frustrated and asking for advice. What do you suggest - that we ignore what repeatedly been demonstrated to be the most likely cause of their frustration?
I have not seen a post where someone has gone "crazy" because someone isn't eating back their exercise calories. I'll defer to your experience here since you're claiming to see the same people do this repeatedly. I do see people recommending it to people who have very low calorie goals or are suffering from extreme hunger or lack of energy. Again, these are people asking for advice. If someone is eating much less than they need and asking for advice to deal with the consequences, I don't know what you would have people recommend other than "hey, you can eat back some of calories you're leaving on the table!"
I have been a myfitnesspal forum lurker for like 10 years (I've had some other accounts besides the one I have now.) What I have often seen is cut and dry, matter of fact, often condescending answers to people who oppose people with more than 1,000 comments next to their name. This isn't EVERY person-- I have seen many really kind and helpful people too.
But it almost never fails that people who ask "what am I doing wrong?" or "should i eat more than 1200 calories" or "I'm eating really clean"... will be met with some snark and a heavy does of "measure, measure, measure". I get that people are asking for this advice... but if someone is giving advice that isn't "measure" or "eat back your calories" then those responses are dismissed right away.
Personally, I have never been able to be as perfect as what the forums have recommended to me. After years of calculating TDEE, rearranging macros, and weighing every single thing, attempting heavy lifting, I've actually never been successful at doing those things. What's more is that I became so obsessed with numbers and control that I developed a full blown eating disorder (that thankfully, I no longer struggle with). I was actually more successful at weight loss and overall health, before I joined MFP and started obsessing over the numbers.
I wish someone would have told me 10 years ago that I didn't have to do all that to lose weight.
You can tell if you are in a deficit if you are losing weight over time. If you aren't, then look at how much you are eating and your patterns. If measuring isn't your thing, then make conscious decisions to eat less and observe the results. Losing too much? Eat more.
If someone isn't losing weight, do you think the advice to make sure they're being reasonably accurate with estimating their intake is BAD or misguided? What would you recommend to someone who thinks they've been in a deficit for six weeks and hasn't lost any weight, especially if they're using less accurate methods of estimating how many calories they're eating?
I've never seen anybody here say that it is required to know one's TDEE or to weigh everything to lose weight. People can lose weight in a calorie deficit without even knowing what a calorie is. But if someone is having trouble creating that deficit, I'm really confused as to why specific advice to help them get there is inappropriate, especially given that this is a website specifically dedicated to counting calories. We're not going to be recommending rebalancing chakras.
There have been multiple threads over the years where people have said they either can't or won't count calories for reasons of mental health or anxiety prevention. I have never seen this result in someone saying they CAN'T lose weight, it's just that their path may be less direct than someone who is actually counting calories with reasonable accuracy.
I believe it is mathematically correct advice. But literally every thread does not have to be "weigh and measure" and eat calories back. I can click on just about any given thread that will repeat this over and over for advice. There's more going on than people not knowing how buy a food scale.
And so when others give advice that isn't a repeat of this mantra, then they get all these disagrees and comments. This thread for example.... If a person says "heck no I don't eat calories back.... that just undoes my progress." Well...maybe for them it really does. And maybe the OP isn't a diligent tracker and would benefit from not eating calories back.
It's not that I think it is bad advice. But I do think it is the only allowed advice without feathers being ruffled and 10 people coming in to negate any advice because it doesn't fit with the weighing and measuring mantra. It's not so much maybe that people give this advice, but that they also have to debate everyone who comes up with a different response.
I know that many MFPers have been really successfully with this approach. But I've also seen a ton who have been here for years, preaching this approach and haven't been able to follow their own advice (me being one of them) and actually be successful at weight loss. We know the math... so what's wrong? Why is fad diet Kathy losing weight and keeping it off, while I sit here with my superior math and science and can't seem to stick to it? Sometimes, it's not just that.
We see it over and over because there are lots of threads with the same questions. Even if someone is the 1,000th person to ask a similar question, they should get the most relevant advice for their situation (even if it has been given to others previously).
If someone says "I don't eat back my calories because it undoes my progress," that's an opportunity for them to understand how MFP actually works. If someone says "I don't eat back my calories because it creates a buffer for my logging," that's a different story.
As far as advice not being allowed, it's absolutely allowed to recommend that people don't eat their calories back. People may disagree with you (and people may disagree with me), but the point of view can be expressed.
Your experience has shown you that successful weight management IS more than just knowing the math. The math has to be applied and that is where things can get logistically or psychologically challenging. That doesn't mean the math is invalid, it means that we all have different challenges when it comes to actually applying it to our complicated lives. It has nothing to do with an understanding of math and science. There are literal geniuses who can't manage their weight, just as there are geniuses who are addicted to various substances or can't get their romantic lives in order or have dirty homes. We're an odd species that way.
But while there is a valid and necessary and legitimate place to talk about the psychological or behavioral challenges we face in applying the principles of CICO to manage our weight, that doesn't undercut the underlying truth of how our bodies function. For me personally, I think there is a great value in people understanding exactly how it works so they can figure out how to tailor it to the circumstances of their lives and their emotional needs.5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »breefoshee wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »breefoshee wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »breefoshee wrote: »I really think it depends on the person. I do sometimes and I don't sometimes.
MFP forum veterans are sticklers for weighing and measuring every morsel of food. So much so that if a person isn't losing weight and asks for advice, everyone jumps on them to open their diary so that they can prove that that person is not logging accurately and therefore eating too many calories.
What is funny to me is that those same people will go crazy over people saying that they are not eating exercise calories back or if someone is eating at 1200 calories. If you have already established that most people are eating more-- enough to where they aren't losing weight, then why does it matter if they choose not to eat calories back and create a small deficit there instead?
The reality is that many people won't be exact in logging. And they probably ARE eating more than they think... which means they probably won't see the results they want if they eat back all of their calories.
If you are really great at measuring and tracking, then you can probably eat them back and be fine. If you aren't so great at it, don't want the hassle, and find that you aren't seeing the results you want, don't eat them back and see if that helps.
If someone isn't losing weight when they're supposedly in a calorie deficit, the general most obvious answer is that they're accidentally eating more than they think you are. We're less "jumping" on people than offering help to people who are frustrated and asking for advice. What do you suggest - that we ignore what repeatedly been demonstrated to be the most likely cause of their frustration?
I have not seen a post where someone has gone "crazy" because someone isn't eating back their exercise calories. I'll defer to your experience here since you're claiming to see the same people do this repeatedly. I do see people recommending it to people who have very low calorie goals or are suffering from extreme hunger or lack of energy. Again, these are people asking for advice. If someone is eating much less than they need and asking for advice to deal with the consequences, I don't know what you would have people recommend other than "hey, you can eat back some of calories you're leaving on the table!"
I have been a myfitnesspal forum lurker for like 10 years (I've had some other accounts besides the one I have now.) What I have often seen is cut and dry, matter of fact, often condescending answers to people who oppose people with more than 1,000 comments next to their name. This isn't EVERY person-- I have seen many really kind and helpful people too.
But it almost never fails that people who ask "what am I doing wrong?" or "should i eat more than 1200 calories" or "I'm eating really clean"... will be met with some snark and a heavy does of "measure, measure, measure". I get that people are asking for this advice... but if someone is giving advice that isn't "measure" or "eat back your calories" then those responses are dismissed right away.
Personally, I have never been able to be as perfect as what the forums have recommended to me. After years of calculating TDEE, rearranging macros, and weighing every single thing, attempting heavy lifting, I've actually never been successful at doing those things. What's more is that I became so obsessed with numbers and control that I developed a full blown eating disorder (that thankfully, I no longer struggle with). I was actually more successful at weight loss and overall health, before I joined MFP and started obsessing over the numbers.
I wish someone would have told me 10 years ago that I didn't have to do all that to lose weight.
You can tell if you are in a deficit if you are losing weight over time. If you aren't, then look at how much you are eating and your patterns. If measuring isn't your thing, then make conscious decisions to eat less and observe the results. Losing too much? Eat more.
If someone isn't losing weight, do you think the advice to make sure they're being reasonably accurate with estimating their intake is BAD or misguided? What would you recommend to someone who thinks they've been in a deficit for six weeks and hasn't lost any weight, especially if they're using less accurate methods of estimating how many calories they're eating?
I've never seen anybody here say that it is required to know one's TDEE or to weigh everything to lose weight. People can lose weight in a calorie deficit without even knowing what a calorie is. But if someone is having trouble creating that deficit, I'm really confused as to why specific advice to help them get there is inappropriate, especially given that this is a website specifically dedicated to counting calories. We're not going to be recommending rebalancing chakras.
There have been multiple threads over the years where people have said they either can't or won't count calories for reasons of mental health or anxiety prevention. I have never seen this result in someone saying they CAN'T lose weight, it's just that their path may be less direct than someone who is actually counting calories with reasonable accuracy.
I believe it is mathematically correct advice. But literally every thread does not have to be "weigh and measure" and eat calories back. I can click on just about any given thread that will repeat this over and over for advice. There's more going on than people not knowing how buy a food scale.
And so when others give advice that isn't a repeat of this mantra, then they get all these disagrees and comments. This thread for example.... If a person says "heck no I don't eat calories back.... that just undoes my progress." Well...maybe for them it really does. And maybe the OP isn't a diligent tracker and would benefit from not eating calories back.
It's not that I think it is bad advice. But I do think it is the only allowed advice without feathers being ruffled and 10 people coming in to negate any advice because it doesn't fit with the weighing and measuring mantra. It's not so much maybe that people give this advice, but that they also have to debate everyone who comes up with a different response.
I know that many MFPers have been really successfully with this approach. But I've also seen a ton who have been here for years, preaching this approach and haven't been able to follow their own advice (me being one of them) and actually be successful at weight loss. We know the math... so what's wrong? Why is fad diet Kathy losing weight and keeping it off, while I sit here with my superior math and science and can't seem to stick to it? Sometimes, it's not just that.
We see it over and over because there are lots of threads with the same questions. Even if someone is the 1,000th person to ask a similar question, they should get the most relevant advice for their situation (even if it has been given to others previously).
If someone says "I don't eat back my calories because it undoes my progress," that's an opportunity for them to understand how MFP actually works. If someone says "I don't eat back my calories because it creates a buffer for my logging," that's a different story.
As far as advice not being allowed, it's absolutely allowed to recommend that people don't eat their calories back. People may disagree with you (and people may disagree with me), but the point of view can be expressed.
Your experience has shown you that successful weight management IS more than just knowing the math. The math has to be applied and that is where things can get logistically or psychologically challenging. That doesn't mean the math is invalid, it means that we all have different challenges when it comes to actually applying it to our complicated lives. It has nothing to do with an understanding of math and science. There are literal geniuses who can't manage their weight, just as there are geniuses who are addicted to various substances or can't get their romantic lives in order or have dirty homes. We're an odd species that way.
But while there is a valid and necessary and legitimate place to talk about the psychological or behavioral challenges we face in applying the principles of CICO to manage our weight, that doesn't undercut the underlying truth of how our bodies function. For me personally, I think there is a great value in people understanding exactly how it works so they can figure out how to tailor it to the circumstances of their lives and their emotional needs.
But again, the information is contradicted when you say "let me educate you on how MFP works"....then "but MFP inflates calorie burns"... you are essentially saying, "Trust MFP's set up... except for when we say otherwise." I also did not receive a lesson in weighing food when I signed up-- I had to come to the forums for that.
I do understand where you are coming from and agree to some extent. I would definitely say that if someone is not losing weight, they are not in a calorie deficit. And I do think that it is important to point that out and try to figure out where something is off.
But in saying that, I don't think it has to be strictly "weigh your foods." I think that MFP forums have a cultish vibe where if someone says something like "I think breakfast is really important" or "I eat 1200 calories a day" or "I skip the sugar and eat fruit instead" then there are knee-jerk responses opposing those views, when that actually could be help people who are not in a deficit get into a deficit without breaking out a scale.3 -
No.
I eat to lose 1 pound a week and then I walk with a view to losing another 0.7 pounds a week - rough calculations. The two are completely independent.
I get it that some people exercise with a view to being able to eat more but I do OK on my food plan and ensure I get all the nutrients I need from it. So my hour and half daily walk in the sun or wind or rain, while of course good for health, is to lose weight not so I can eat more desert.
When I have lost the weight of course then exercise will allow me to eat more on maintenance, but not there yet.3 -
breefoshee wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »breefoshee wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »breefoshee wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »breefoshee wrote: »I really think it depends on the person. I do sometimes and I don't sometimes.
MFP forum veterans are sticklers for weighing and measuring every morsel of food. So much so that if a person isn't losing weight and asks for advice, everyone jumps on them to open their diary so that they can prove that that person is not logging accurately and therefore eating too many calories.
What is funny to me is that those same people will go crazy over people saying that they are not eating exercise calories back or if someone is eating at 1200 calories. If you have already established that most people are eating more-- enough to where they aren't losing weight, then why does it matter if they choose not to eat calories back and create a small deficit there instead?
The reality is that many people won't be exact in logging. And they probably ARE eating more than they think... which means they probably won't see the results they want if they eat back all of their calories.
If you are really great at measuring and tracking, then you can probably eat them back and be fine. If you aren't so great at it, don't want the hassle, and find that you aren't seeing the results you want, don't eat them back and see if that helps.
If someone isn't losing weight when they're supposedly in a calorie deficit, the general most obvious answer is that they're accidentally eating more than they think you are. We're less "jumping" on people than offering help to people who are frustrated and asking for advice. What do you suggest - that we ignore what repeatedly been demonstrated to be the most likely cause of their frustration?
I have not seen a post where someone has gone "crazy" because someone isn't eating back their exercise calories. I'll defer to your experience here since you're claiming to see the same people do this repeatedly. I do see people recommending it to people who have very low calorie goals or are suffering from extreme hunger or lack of energy. Again, these are people asking for advice. If someone is eating much less than they need and asking for advice to deal with the consequences, I don't know what you would have people recommend other than "hey, you can eat back some of calories you're leaving on the table!"
I have been a myfitnesspal forum lurker for like 10 years (I've had some other accounts besides the one I have now.) What I have often seen is cut and dry, matter of fact, often condescending answers to people who oppose people with more than 1,000 comments next to their name. This isn't EVERY person-- I have seen many really kind and helpful people too.
But it almost never fails that people who ask "what am I doing wrong?" or "should i eat more than 1200 calories" or "I'm eating really clean"... will be met with some snark and a heavy does of "measure, measure, measure". I get that people are asking for this advice... but if someone is giving advice that isn't "measure" or "eat back your calories" then those responses are dismissed right away.
Personally, I have never been able to be as perfect as what the forums have recommended to me. After years of calculating TDEE, rearranging macros, and weighing every single thing, attempting heavy lifting, I've actually never been successful at doing those things. What's more is that I became so obsessed with numbers and control that I developed a full blown eating disorder (that thankfully, I no longer struggle with). I was actually more successful at weight loss and overall health, before I joined MFP and started obsessing over the numbers.
I wish someone would have told me 10 years ago that I didn't have to do all that to lose weight.
You can tell if you are in a deficit if you are losing weight over time. If you aren't, then look at how much you are eating and your patterns. If measuring isn't your thing, then make conscious decisions to eat less and observe the results. Losing too much? Eat more.
If someone isn't losing weight, do you think the advice to make sure they're being reasonably accurate with estimating their intake is BAD or misguided? What would you recommend to someone who thinks they've been in a deficit for six weeks and hasn't lost any weight, especially if they're using less accurate methods of estimating how many calories they're eating?
I've never seen anybody here say that it is required to know one's TDEE or to weigh everything to lose weight. People can lose weight in a calorie deficit without even knowing what a calorie is. But if someone is having trouble creating that deficit, I'm really confused as to why specific advice to help them get there is inappropriate, especially given that this is a website specifically dedicated to counting calories. We're not going to be recommending rebalancing chakras.
There have been multiple threads over the years where people have said they either can't or won't count calories for reasons of mental health or anxiety prevention. I have never seen this result in someone saying they CAN'T lose weight, it's just that their path may be less direct than someone who is actually counting calories with reasonable accuracy.
I believe it is mathematically correct advice. But literally every thread does not have to be "weigh and measure" and eat calories back. I can click on just about any given thread that will repeat this over and over for advice. There's more going on than people not knowing how buy a food scale.
And so when others give advice that isn't a repeat of this mantra, then they get all these disagrees and comments. This thread for example.... If a person says "heck no I don't eat calories back.... that just undoes my progress." Well...maybe for them it really does. And maybe the OP isn't a diligent tracker and would benefit from not eating calories back.
It's not that I think it is bad advice. But I do think it is the only allowed advice without feathers being ruffled and 10 people coming in to negate any advice because it doesn't fit with the weighing and measuring mantra. It's not so much maybe that people give this advice, but that they also have to debate everyone who comes up with a different response.
I know that many MFPers have been really successfully with this approach. But I've also seen a ton who have been here for years, preaching this approach and haven't been able to follow their own advice (me being one of them) and actually be successful at weight loss. We know the math... so what's wrong? Why is fad diet Kathy losing weight and keeping it off, while I sit here with my superior math and science and can't seem to stick to it? Sometimes, it's not just that.
We see it over and over because there are lots of threads with the same questions. Even if someone is the 1,000th person to ask a similar question, they should get the most relevant advice for their situation (even if it has been given to others previously).
If someone says "I don't eat back my calories because it undoes my progress," that's an opportunity for them to understand how MFP actually works. If someone says "I don't eat back my calories because it creates a buffer for my logging," that's a different story.
As far as advice not being allowed, it's absolutely allowed to recommend that people don't eat their calories back. People may disagree with you (and people may disagree with me), but the point of view can be expressed.
Your experience has shown you that successful weight management IS more than just knowing the math. The math has to be applied and that is where things can get logistically or psychologically challenging. That doesn't mean the math is invalid, it means that we all have different challenges when it comes to actually applying it to our complicated lives. It has nothing to do with an understanding of math and science. There are literal geniuses who can't manage their weight, just as there are geniuses who are addicted to various substances or can't get their romantic lives in order or have dirty homes. We're an odd species that way.
But while there is a valid and necessary and legitimate place to talk about the psychological or behavioral challenges we face in applying the principles of CICO to manage our weight, that doesn't undercut the underlying truth of how our bodies function. For me personally, I think there is a great value in people understanding exactly how it works so they can figure out how to tailor it to the circumstances of their lives and their emotional needs.
But again, the information is contradicted when you say "let me educate you on how MFP works"....then "but MFP inflates calorie burns"... you are essentially saying, "Trust MFP's set up... except for when we say otherwise." I also did not receive a lesson in weighing food when I signed up-- I had to come to the forums for that.
I do understand where you are coming from and agree to some extent. I would definitely say that if someone is not losing weight, they are not in a calorie deficit. And I do think that it is important to point that out and try to figure out where something is off.
But in saying that, I don't think it has to be strictly "weigh your foods." I think that MFP forums have a cultish vibe where if someone says something like "I think breakfast is really important" or "I eat 1200 calories a day" or "I skip the sugar and eat fruit instead" then there are knee-jerk responses opposing those views, when that actually could be help people who are not in a deficit get into a deficit without breaking out a scale.
I am specifically NOT saying "trust MFP's set up . . . except for when I say otherwise."
I'm saying that people should choose a reasonable baseline to start (which can include MFP's recommendation or be something from a TDEE website or another method of goal setting), measure their real life results over a few weeks, and then make appropriate adjustments. This is the opposite of asking people to do what I say -- it's helping them understand how various programs arrive at their goals so that people can understand how to understand their own results and control the progress of their weight loss.
But if you DO choose a method of goal setting, like MFP, that doesn't include the calories burnt through intentional exercise, I think it's important that people understand how that works. Where you go from that is up to you: you can decide to eat those calories back, you can decide to use them as a buffer so you can be more casual with logging your intake, you can use them intentionally to create part of your reasonable deficit (that is, if it's safe for you to lose 1 pound a week, you may decide to create a deficit of 250 with your diet and then use exercise to create the additional 250 calories). The important thing, IMO, is that you understand what you're doing and how to compare it against your real life results so you don't wind up being one of those people giving blanket recommendations that people shouldn't eat to fuel their activity because that somehow cancels out exercise.
Every time there is a thread about breakfast, I think I point out that it is vital FOR ME to have breakfast because I don't function well without it. Nobody has ever pushed back on that or tried to convince me that I should skip it.4 -
breefoshee wrote: »I can click on just about any given thread that will repeat this over and over for advice. There's more going on than people not knowing how buy a food scale.
..probably due to the sheer daily number of "I'm only eating 1200 calories a day. Why am I not losing weight?" posts.
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breefoshee wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »breefoshee wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »breefoshee wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »breefoshee wrote: »I really think it depends on the person. I do sometimes and I don't sometimes.
MFP forum veterans are sticklers for weighing and measuring every morsel of food. So much so that if a person isn't losing weight and asks for advice, everyone jumps on them to open their diary so that they can prove that that person is not logging accurately and therefore eating too many calories.
What is funny to me is that those same people will go crazy over people saying that they are not eating exercise calories back or if someone is eating at 1200 calories. If you have already established that most people are eating more-- enough to where they aren't losing weight, then why does it matter if they choose not to eat calories back and create a small deficit there instead?
The reality is that many people won't be exact in logging. And they probably ARE eating more than they think... which means they probably won't see the results they want if they eat back all of their calories.
If you are really great at measuring and tracking, then you can probably eat them back and be fine. If you aren't so great at it, don't want the hassle, and find that you aren't seeing the results you want, don't eat them back and see if that helps.
If someone isn't losing weight when they're supposedly in a calorie deficit, the general most obvious answer is that they're accidentally eating more than they think you are. We're less "jumping" on people than offering help to people who are frustrated and asking for advice. What do you suggest - that we ignore what repeatedly been demonstrated to be the most likely cause of their frustration?
I have not seen a post where someone has gone "crazy" because someone isn't eating back their exercise calories. I'll defer to your experience here since you're claiming to see the same people do this repeatedly. I do see people recommending it to people who have very low calorie goals or are suffering from extreme hunger or lack of energy. Again, these are people asking for advice. If someone is eating much less than they need and asking for advice to deal with the consequences, I don't know what you would have people recommend other than "hey, you can eat back some of calories you're leaving on the table!"
I have been a myfitnesspal forum lurker for like 10 years (I've had some other accounts besides the one I have now.) What I have often seen is cut and dry, matter of fact, often condescending answers to people who oppose people with more than 1,000 comments next to their name. This isn't EVERY person-- I have seen many really kind and helpful people too.
But it almost never fails that people who ask "what am I doing wrong?" or "should i eat more than 1200 calories" or "I'm eating really clean"... will be met with some snark and a heavy does of "measure, measure, measure". I get that people are asking for this advice... but if someone is giving advice that isn't "measure" or "eat back your calories" then those responses are dismissed right away.
Personally, I have never been able to be as perfect as what the forums have recommended to me. After years of calculating TDEE, rearranging macros, and weighing every single thing, attempting heavy lifting, I've actually never been successful at doing those things. What's more is that I became so obsessed with numbers and control that I developed a full blown eating disorder (that thankfully, I no longer struggle with). I was actually more successful at weight loss and overall health, before I joined MFP and started obsessing over the numbers.
I wish someone would have told me 10 years ago that I didn't have to do all that to lose weight.
You can tell if you are in a deficit if you are losing weight over time. If you aren't, then look at how much you are eating and your patterns. If measuring isn't your thing, then make conscious decisions to eat less and observe the results. Losing too much? Eat more.
If someone isn't losing weight, do you think the advice to make sure they're being reasonably accurate with estimating their intake is BAD or misguided? What would you recommend to someone who thinks they've been in a deficit for six weeks and hasn't lost any weight, especially if they're using less accurate methods of estimating how many calories they're eating?
I've never seen anybody here say that it is required to know one's TDEE or to weigh everything to lose weight. People can lose weight in a calorie deficit without even knowing what a calorie is. But if someone is having trouble creating that deficit, I'm really confused as to why specific advice to help them get there is inappropriate, especially given that this is a website specifically dedicated to counting calories. We're not going to be recommending rebalancing chakras.
There have been multiple threads over the years where people have said they either can't or won't count calories for reasons of mental health or anxiety prevention. I have never seen this result in someone saying they CAN'T lose weight, it's just that their path may be less direct than someone who is actually counting calories with reasonable accuracy.
I believe it is mathematically correct advice. But literally every thread does not have to be "weigh and measure" and eat calories back. I can click on just about any given thread that will repeat this over and over for advice. There's more going on than people not knowing how buy a food scale.
And so when others give advice that isn't a repeat of this mantra, then they get all these disagrees and comments. This thread for example.... If a person says "heck no I don't eat calories back.... that just undoes my progress." Well...maybe for them it really does. And maybe the OP isn't a diligent tracker and would benefit from not eating calories back.
It's not that I think it is bad advice. But I do think it is the only allowed advice without feathers being ruffled and 10 people coming in to negate any advice because it doesn't fit with the weighing and measuring mantra. It's not so much maybe that people give this advice, but that they also have to debate everyone who comes up with a different response.
I know that many MFPers have been really successfully with this approach. But I've also seen a ton who have been here for years, preaching this approach and haven't been able to follow their own advice (me being one of them) and actually be successful at weight loss. We know the math... so what's wrong? Why is fad diet Kathy losing weight and keeping it off, while I sit here with my superior math and science and can't seem to stick to it? Sometimes, it's not just that.
We see it over and over because there are lots of threads with the same questions. Even if someone is the 1,000th person to ask a similar question, they should get the most relevant advice for their situation (even if it has been given to others previously).
If someone says "I don't eat back my calories because it undoes my progress," that's an opportunity for them to understand how MFP actually works. If someone says "I don't eat back my calories because it creates a buffer for my logging," that's a different story.
As far as advice not being allowed, it's absolutely allowed to recommend that people don't eat their calories back. People may disagree with you (and people may disagree with me), but the point of view can be expressed.
Your experience has shown you that successful weight management IS more than just knowing the math. The math has to be applied and that is where things can get logistically or psychologically challenging. That doesn't mean the math is invalid, it means that we all have different challenges when it comes to actually applying it to our complicated lives. It has nothing to do with an understanding of math and science. There are literal geniuses who can't manage their weight, just as there are geniuses who are addicted to various substances or can't get their romantic lives in order or have dirty homes. We're an odd species that way.
But while there is a valid and necessary and legitimate place to talk about the psychological or behavioral challenges we face in applying the principles of CICO to manage our weight, that doesn't undercut the underlying truth of how our bodies function. For me personally, I think there is a great value in people understanding exactly how it works so they can figure out how to tailor it to the circumstances of their lives and their emotional needs.
But again, the information is contradicted when you say "let me educate you on how MFP works"....then "but MFP inflates calorie burns"... you are essentially saying, "Trust MFP's set up... except for when we say otherwise." I also did not receive a lesson in weighing food when I signed up-- I had to come to the forums for that.
I do understand where you are coming from and agree to some extent. I would definitely say that if someone is not losing weight, they are not in a calorie deficit. And I do think that it is important to point that out and try to figure out where something is off.
But in saying that, I don't think it has to be strictly "weigh your foods." I think that MFP forums have a cultish vibe where if someone says something like "I think breakfast is really important" or "I eat 1200 calories a day" or "I skip the sugar and eat fruit instead" then there are knee-jerk responses opposing those views, when that actually could be help people who are not in a deficit get into a deficit without breaking out a scale.
What people are actually saying is that the method is entirely sensible.
That the exercise database here may not be the best way for many people to estimate their calorie expenditure does not negate in anyway that people's bodies are burning calories during exercise and if you are counting calories turning a blind eye doesn't make a lot of sense. It's just one of the energy needs of our bodies.
if you are talking of "cultish vibes" then the cult of selecting the fastest rate of loss (even when inappropriate), selecting the lowest activity level (even when not accurate) and then viewing exercise as solely for weight loss is a far more harmful "cult" than people trying to support healthy rates of weight loss and building healthy habits for life such as exercise being for health, fitness and even enjoyment.
Although exercise isn't required for successful weight loss there's a big correlation between successfully maintaining at goal weight and the habit of regular exercise.
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