Coronavirus prep
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Hey guys - quick note regarding MyFitnessPal's position on divisive topics (which includes politics): Please do not discuss divisive topics in the main forums. If you'd like to discuss political issues at MFP (including the size of inauguration crowds), please create a group (or find an existing one) and invite fellow members to join you there to discuss.
Stay safe, y'all,
Em17 -
Please be careful about letting politics creep into this discussion. I would hate to lose this thread.
I watch different news programs on youtube. It felt very strange to hear my state mentioned on a German news channel because of our rising cases. One of our doctors pointed out that there is no curve to flatten; the infections are a straight line going up steeply.14 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I think my work just made a mistake. In order to strongly discourage employees from either traveling out of state or having visitors from out of state for Thanksgiving or Christmas, they are requiring 14 days of quarantine if you travel or have out of state visitors...that's actually nothing new...the new wrinkle is that instead of teleworking for those 2 weeks as has been done previously, you are now required to use your annual leave and get written permission from on high to either travel or have someone out of state travel to you.
For the most part, from what I've heard around the water cooler and break room is that most people aren't planning on anything big...but so and so's kid will be visiting from Texas or so and so's husband's mom will be visiting from Arizona, etc...but by and large people don't seem to be planning large get togethers.
The punitive nature of this new mandate is already causing problems, and it's only Monday afternoon. I'm in management and I'm already getting things like, "my husband doesn't care if I have permission or not, he told me that he's not your employee and his mom will be visiting from Texas for Christmas." We also have a lot of employees with grown children who live out of state and while not planning a big tadoo for the holidays, they will be visiting back home. One of those people is our primary IT guy and he's basically said, "fine...I'll use my annual leave, but don't bother calling, because my phone and email will be off if I'm on a forced vacation." Another employee is upset because his sister lives in state, but works in southern Colorado so she commutes out of state daily and as such is considered to be an "out of state" visitor.
The bigger issue I think is that you're going to basically have a lot of people just lying about it and saying they aren't traveling or hosting out of state visitors when they really are and thus avoiding any quarantine period whatsoever, when in the past they would have complied with the quarantine period and just teleworked. On the other side, you're going to have people comply...and fully comply in that since they are on annual leave, they will not be available and responding to emails or phone calls.
We also have some new questions on our form that we fill out daily whether we are teleworking or coming to the office. Any yes answer on the form requires the employee to get a covid test and self quarantine for 14 days (can telework if their work can be done by that means)...the two added questions are do you have a runny nose or diarrhea? Fall allergies here are pretty common and just about everyone has a runny nose in the fall...that question alone just put about 70% of our workforce into quarantine starting today. I'm also hearing some chatter of people possibly using this as a work around for having to quarantine for 14 days using vacation time for having out of state visitors in that they see it as a responsible thing to quarantine...but instead of saying it's for visitors, they'll just say they have a runny nose so they can still work at home while responsibly quarantining.
I think the higher ups made a bigger mess of all of this than it already was...I'm hoping they might walk back some of it.
I am constantly shocked about how people/companies/government don't always foresee the potential unintended responses they trigger with their edicts.
Yeah...I talked with my boss yesterday about this as I have more interaction with the rank and file and told him that we went from having a pretty compliant workforce with overall positive morale to a defiant workforce with about zero morale overnight. We already had pretty strict requirements in place...but making people who can otherwise work at home in quarantine use their leave pissed everyone off.
All around, just such a bad idea.
In Massachusetts, our Governor instituted a new stricter policy that causes one to question their judgement. He went from masks outside if cannot maintain 6 ft, to masks outside no matter what even if no one is in sight. So, where I live, land lots are 1 acre minimum with tracts of woods interspersed. When I go out walking, even if I see someone, it is very easy to remain a distance of 20 feet away. In that setting it makes no sense, and there are towns even more rural than mine. When one rule is not logically defined and makes no sense, it brings one to also question the well defined rules. Do note that I am not critiquing mask use, I am critiquing requiring them illogically and thus potentially decreasing compliance in all the important scenarios.
One person critiquing Governor Bakers new mask edict compared it to instructing people to wear a condom when alone so that they will remember to wear one when having sex. (I actually toned down the comparison slightly.)
I've long been hearing from people who frequent touristy areas like the Plymouth waterfront that people have not been wearing masks outdoors when within 6', and police had not been enforcing it. While this new rule does make enforcement much easier, I agree with you that this new strict policy seems ill advised for the reasons you mentioned.
(Nice metaphor
) 1 -
My congressman just posted on Facebook that there's a lottery opening soon for tickets to the Inauguration in January...so I'm supposed to give up the holidays with family (who very well might not be here next year) and "stay home" but miraculously by Jan 21st all will be well to have a large scale gathering? And we wonder why people find Covid so political and polarizing right now - because apparently if you are on the correct end of the spectrum Covid will miraculously not infect you. If it's as bad as "they" are making it out to be currently the Inauguration should be televised/streamed only. Then I'll be more likely to believe that this the correct course of action - but if we can get tons of people together (even if it's outside and masked) for this then other activities with social distancing should be allowed (such as more than 50 people at a football game).
Give me a break.
I don't know how inaugurations normally work, but watching on TV it's always looked like: if you want to be there, you just go. Full stop.
Having a lottery sort of implies there will be a limit to the number of in-person attendees. Much like how the state of Minnesota was willing to host the president's rallies, but only if there were no more 250 present.
I guess I don't see the issue.
His post says historically that each Congressional office gets a limited number of tickets which he will be offering in a lottery...so at least as of now that appear to be how it's been done in the past and no Covid related changes have been implemented so far at least. My point is though that if Covid is so bad and we all need to stay away from each other as much as possible (to the degree that you shouldn't even walk within 6ft of someone outside without a mask) then hosting a large scale event even if it's outside is problematic at best. There is no way that a vaccine will be ready and widely given by then so the responsible thing to do is to not host the event other than streaming/tv other than those who have to be present to do the swearing in. Either gatherings are acceptable or they are not regardless of the reasoning (even outside large scale gatherings are prohibited in my area).
Another issue is that currently, for almost every single state because surges are occurring nationwide, you are required to quarantine for 14 days if you come to D.C., albeit enforcement is probably mostly on the honor system. Members of Congress are exempt, but there's no exemption at this point for people wanting to travel to D.C. for an event like inauguration. So if they hold it, most people in the ticketed audience would legally be required to come on Jan. 6 and quarantine until the inauguration (but stay away from the ones from neighboring Virginia and Maryland, because they're exempt from the quarantine requirement).3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »My congressman just posted on Facebook that there's a lottery opening soon for tickets to the Inauguration in January...so I'm supposed to give up the holidays with family (who very well might not be here next year) and "stay home" but miraculously by Jan 21st all will be well to have a large scale gathering? And we wonder why people find Covid so political and polarizing right now - because apparently if you are on the correct end of the spectrum Covid will miraculously not infect you. If it's as bad as "they" are making it out to be currently the Inauguration should be televised/streamed only. Then I'll be more likely to believe that this the correct course of action - but if we can get tons of people together (even if it's outside and masked) for this then other activities with social distancing should be allowed (such as more than 50 people at a football game).
Give me a break.
1) Isn't the Inauguration typically outdoors? That is, in a category of event that is currently thought to be lower risk than different households gathering indoors, especially when masks are worn?
2) Is the Congressman who made the posting on Facebook also advocating that you not gather for the holidays?
The reason this is "so political and polarizing" is that you're making it that way. If you think the Inauguration is high risk, don't go (I wouldn't go myself). But the fact that the Inauguration is happening doesn't make it magically safe to gather different households together indoors for Thanksgiving.
Yes it is outdoors but that doesn't miraculously make it "safe" to get in a large crowd. This same Congressman has said that we should avoid gathering for the holidays, that pro-Trump rallies, protests, or gatherings are bad (but unsurprisingly given his political party did not say the same for the Biden winning gatherings the prior weekend) and has said that we should be listening to the "experts" - and aren't they all saying that even outside we should be social distancing? I'd think that they would not be advocating for a large scale gathering in that case.
Hypocrisy they name is politics.
Plus with how much this board seems to be in favor of abiding by any and all guidelines and restrictions I'd have thought there would be more support against the idea of this gathering.
@kushiel1 I totally agree with you that rules and standards this year are not consistent across the board, and in the process that makes me very distrustful of those making the decisions.
"This year"? What rules and standards in the U.S. are ever "consistent across the board"? Welcome to a federal system of government and the 50 state laboratories of democracy.10 -
kshama2001 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I think my work just made a mistake. In order to strongly discourage employees from either traveling out of state or having visitors from out of state for Thanksgiving or Christmas, they are requiring 14 days of quarantine if you travel or have out of state visitors...that's actually nothing new...the new wrinkle is that instead of teleworking for those 2 weeks as has been done previously, you are now required to use your annual leave and get written permission from on high to either travel or have someone out of state travel to you.
For the most part, from what I've heard around the water cooler and break room is that most people aren't planning on anything big...but so and so's kid will be visiting from Texas or so and so's husband's mom will be visiting from Arizona, etc...but by and large people don't seem to be planning large get togethers.
The punitive nature of this new mandate is already causing problems, and it's only Monday afternoon. I'm in management and I'm already getting things like, "my husband doesn't care if I have permission or not, he told me that he's not your employee and his mom will be visiting from Texas for Christmas." We also have a lot of employees with grown children who live out of state and while not planning a big tadoo for the holidays, they will be visiting back home. One of those people is our primary IT guy and he's basically said, "fine...I'll use my annual leave, but don't bother calling, because my phone and email will be off if I'm on a forced vacation." Another employee is upset because his sister lives in state, but works in southern Colorado so she commutes out of state daily and as such is considered to be an "out of state" visitor.
The bigger issue I think is that you're going to basically have a lot of people just lying about it and saying they aren't traveling or hosting out of state visitors when they really are and thus avoiding any quarantine period whatsoever, when in the past they would have complied with the quarantine period and just teleworked. On the other side, you're going to have people comply...and fully comply in that since they are on annual leave, they will not be available and responding to emails or phone calls.
We also have some new questions on our form that we fill out daily whether we are teleworking or coming to the office. Any yes answer on the form requires the employee to get a covid test and self quarantine for 14 days (can telework if their work can be done by that means)...the two added questions are do you have a runny nose or diarrhea? Fall allergies here are pretty common and just about everyone has a runny nose in the fall...that question alone just put about 70% of our workforce into quarantine starting today. I'm also hearing some chatter of people possibly using this as a work around for having to quarantine for 14 days using vacation time for having out of state visitors in that they see it as a responsible thing to quarantine...but instead of saying it's for visitors, they'll just say they have a runny nose so they can still work at home while responsibly quarantining.
I think the higher ups made a bigger mess of all of this than it already was...I'm hoping they might walk back some of it.
I am constantly shocked about how people/companies/government don't always foresee the potential unintended responses they trigger with their edicts.
Yeah...I talked with my boss yesterday about this as I have more interaction with the rank and file and told him that we went from having a pretty compliant workforce with overall positive morale to a defiant workforce with about zero morale overnight. We already had pretty strict requirements in place...but making people who can otherwise work at home in quarantine use their leave pissed everyone off.
All around, just such a bad idea.
In Massachusetts, our Governor instituted a new stricter policy that causes one to question their judgement. He went from masks outside if cannot maintain 6 ft, to masks outside no matter what even if no one is in sight. So, where I live, land lots are 1 acre minimum with tracts of woods interspersed. When I go out walking, even if I see someone, it is very easy to remain a distance of 20 feet away. In that setting it makes no sense, and there are towns even more rural than mine. When one rule is not logically defined and makes no sense, it brings one to also question the well defined rules. Do note that I am not critiquing mask use, I am critiquing requiring them illogically and thus potentially decreasing compliance in all the important scenarios.
One person critiquing Governor Bakers new mask edict compared it to instructing people to wear a condom when alone so that they will remember to wear one when having sex. (I actually toned down the comparison slightly.)
I've long been hearing from people who frequent touristy areas like the Plymouth waterfront that people have not been wearing masks outdoors when within 6', and police had not been enforcing it. While this new rule does make enforcement much easier, I agree with you that this new strict policy seems ill advised for the reasons you mentioned.
(Nice metaphor )
IMO The logical approach is to actually just enforce the laws they have. ie masks if cannot maintain 6' distance. I repeatedly compare laws and such to raising kids. If you tell your kid not to do something "or else" and you don't follow through, then they are going to do what they want. If Plymouth police started randomly handing out nice big fines, I bet compliance would improve. Much more logical solution.
Glad you approved of the metaphor. I cannot claim ownership. The original was a bit less PG.2 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »My congressman just posted on Facebook that there's a lottery opening soon for tickets to the Inauguration in January...so I'm supposed to give up the holidays with family (who very well might not be here next year) and "stay home" but miraculously by Jan 21st all will be well to have a large scale gathering? And we wonder why people find Covid so political and polarizing right now - because apparently if you are on the correct end of the spectrum Covid will miraculously not infect you. If it's as bad as "they" are making it out to be currently the Inauguration should be televised/streamed only. Then I'll be more likely to believe that this the correct course of action - but if we can get tons of people together (even if it's outside and masked) for this then other activities with social distancing should be allowed (such as more than 50 people at a football game).
Give me a break.
1) Isn't the Inauguration typically outdoors? That is, in a category of event that is currently thought to be lower risk than different households gathering indoors, especially when masks are worn?
2) Is the Congressman who made the posting on Facebook also advocating that you not gather for the holidays?
The reason this is "so political and polarizing" is that you're making it that way. If you think the Inauguration is high risk, don't go (I wouldn't go myself). But the fact that the Inauguration is happening doesn't make it magically safe to gather different households together indoors for Thanksgiving.
Yes it is outdoors but that doesn't miraculously make it "safe" to get in a large crowd. This same Congressman has said that we should avoid gathering for the holidays, that pro-Trump rallies, protests, or gatherings are bad (but unsurprisingly given his political party did not say the same for the Biden winning gatherings the prior weekend) and has said that we should be listening to the "experts" - and aren't they all saying that even outside we should be social distancing? I'd think that they would not be advocating for a large scale gathering in that case.
Hypocrisy they name is politics.
Plus with how much this board seems to be in favor of abiding by any and all guidelines and restrictions I'd have thought there would be more support against the idea of this gathering.
@kushiel1 I totally agree with you that rules and standards this year are not consistent across the board, and in the process that makes me very distrustful of those making the decisions.
"This year"? What rules and standards in the U.S. are ever "consistent across the board"? Welcome to a federal system of government and the 50 state laboratories of democracy.
Completely a tangent to this thread (and less true in the thread's context, because of urgency) but . . .
I think that this is a huge strength of the US system, when it's actually working. We try out things in the states, learn stuff, eventually federalize the better models.9 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »My congressman just posted on Facebook that there's a lottery opening soon for tickets to the Inauguration in January...so I'm supposed to give up the holidays with family (who very well might not be here next year) and "stay home" but miraculously by Jan 21st all will be well to have a large scale gathering? And we wonder why people find Covid so political and polarizing right now - because apparently if you are on the correct end of the spectrum Covid will miraculously not infect you. If it's as bad as "they" are making it out to be currently the Inauguration should be televised/streamed only. Then I'll be more likely to believe that this the correct course of action - but if we can get tons of people together (even if it's outside and masked) for this then other activities with social distancing should be allowed (such as more than 50 people at a football game).
Give me a break.
1) Isn't the Inauguration typically outdoors? That is, in a category of event that is currently thought to be lower risk than different households gathering indoors, especially when masks are worn?
2) Is the Congressman who made the posting on Facebook also advocating that you not gather for the holidays?
The reason this is "so political and polarizing" is that you're making it that way. If you think the Inauguration is high risk, don't go (I wouldn't go myself). But the fact that the Inauguration is happening doesn't make it magically safe to gather different households together indoors for Thanksgiving.
Yes it is outdoors but that doesn't miraculously make it "safe" to get in a large crowd. This same Congressman has said that we should avoid gathering for the holidays, that pro-Trump rallies, protests, or gatherings are bad (but unsurprisingly given his political party did not say the same for the Biden winning gatherings the prior weekend) and has said that we should be listening to the "experts" - and aren't they all saying that even outside we should be social distancing? I'd think that they would not be advocating for a large scale gathering in that case.
Hypocrisy they name is politics.
Plus with how much this board seems to be in favor of abiding by any and all guidelines and restrictions I'd have thought there would be more support against the idea of this gathering.
@kushiel1 I totally agree with you that rules and standards this year are not consistent across the board, and in the process that makes me very distrustful of those making the decisions.
"This year"? What rules and standards in the U.S. are ever "consistent across the board"? Welcome to a federal system of government and the 50 state laboratories of democracy.
Lynn, you got me. Yes, it has been more than this year. I think though that this year it has been highly observable.1 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Non-sequiter incoming, but:
About the purchase of alcohol, I think every state needs to incorporate some kind of technology into their IDs if they haven't already that can then be read/scanned at a point-of-sale system before alcohol can be purchased. This takes the issue entirely out of the hands of cashiers. I say this as a former manager of a liquor store. Some customers can give you a really hard time about this. Also, the state liquor board loves to run "sting" operations wherein if a cashier neglects to check ID, they can be held personally liable over and above the store's liability. I think it's just a revenue stream for them, but it's stupid. Automate that nonsense.
For many years, I have seen stores scanning state-issued ID's. My understanding is that the barcode contains the information and a computer can quickly collect and analyze that information. But it can also store that information, meaning my junk mail increases. I'm willing to sign up for store accounts that track my purchases and send me deals when there is a benefit to me to do that. But not as a condition of making a particular purchase. In response, I've been using a passport card for years to do this.
Sometimes they try to scan it and then get frustrated when the computer can't understand it. My response is to explain how the passport card barcode works (it is just a number to identify your records in the State Dept. database... without access to that database, the number is worthless). And then go on to remind them that it is a government issued ID and still meets their requirement. I rarely get denied a purchase for that.
The exception is if I am buying something where the seller is required by law to collect my name, address, and date of birth... specifically if I am buying a gun, I use my state-issued ID.
Wow!! You make buying a gun sound like such an ordinary everyday transaction.5 -
kshama2001 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I think my work just made a mistake. In order to strongly discourage employees from either traveling out of state or having visitors from out of state for Thanksgiving or Christmas, they are requiring 14 days of quarantine if you travel or have out of state visitors...that's actually nothing new...the new wrinkle is that instead of teleworking for those 2 weeks as has been done previously, you are now required to use your annual leave and get written permission from on high to either travel or have someone out of state travel to you.
For the most part, from what I've heard around the water cooler and break room is that most people aren't planning on anything big...but so and so's kid will be visiting from Texas or so and so's husband's mom will be visiting from Arizona, etc...but by and large people don't seem to be planning large get togethers.
The punitive nature of this new mandate is already causing problems, and it's only Monday afternoon. I'm in management and I'm already getting things like, "my husband doesn't care if I have permission or not, he told me that he's not your employee and his mom will be visiting from Texas for Christmas." We also have a lot of employees with grown children who live out of state and while not planning a big tadoo for the holidays, they will be visiting back home. One of those people is our primary IT guy and he's basically said, "fine...I'll use my annual leave, but don't bother calling, because my phone and email will be off if I'm on a forced vacation." Another employee is upset because his sister lives in state, but works in southern Colorado so she commutes out of state daily and as such is considered to be an "out of state" visitor.
The bigger issue I think is that you're going to basically have a lot of people just lying about it and saying they aren't traveling or hosting out of state visitors when they really are and thus avoiding any quarantine period whatsoever, when in the past they would have complied with the quarantine period and just teleworked. On the other side, you're going to have people comply...and fully comply in that since they are on annual leave, they will not be available and responding to emails or phone calls.
We also have some new questions on our form that we fill out daily whether we are teleworking or coming to the office. Any yes answer on the form requires the employee to get a covid test and self quarantine for 14 days (can telework if their work can be done by that means)...the two added questions are do you have a runny nose or diarrhea? Fall allergies here are pretty common and just about everyone has a runny nose in the fall...that question alone just put about 70% of our workforce into quarantine starting today. I'm also hearing some chatter of people possibly using this as a work around for having to quarantine for 14 days using vacation time for having out of state visitors in that they see it as a responsible thing to quarantine...but instead of saying it's for visitors, they'll just say they have a runny nose so they can still work at home while responsibly quarantining.
I think the higher ups made a bigger mess of all of this than it already was...I'm hoping they might walk back some of it.
I am constantly shocked about how people/companies/government don't always foresee the potential unintended responses they trigger with their edicts.
Yeah...I talked with my boss yesterday about this as I have more interaction with the rank and file and told him that we went from having a pretty compliant workforce with overall positive morale to a defiant workforce with about zero morale overnight. We already had pretty strict requirements in place...but making people who can otherwise work at home in quarantine use their leave pissed everyone off.
All around, just such a bad idea.
In Massachusetts, our Governor instituted a new stricter policy that causes one to question their judgement. He went from masks outside if cannot maintain 6 ft, to masks outside no matter what even if no one is in sight. So, where I live, land lots are 1 acre minimum with tracts of woods interspersed. When I go out walking, even if I see someone, it is very easy to remain a distance of 20 feet away. In that setting it makes no sense, and there are towns even more rural than mine. When one rule is not logically defined and makes no sense, it brings one to also question the well defined rules. Do note that I am not critiquing mask use, I am critiquing requiring them illogically and thus potentially decreasing compliance in all the important scenarios.
One person critiquing Governor Bakers new mask edict compared it to instructing people to wear a condom when alone so that they will remember to wear one when having sex. (I actually toned down the comparison slightly.)
I've long been hearing from people who frequent touristy areas like the Plymouth waterfront that people have not been wearing masks outdoors when within 6', and police had not been enforcing it. While this new rule does make enforcement much easier, I agree with you that this new strict policy seems ill advised for the reasons you mentioned.
(Nice metaphor )
IMO The logical approach is to actually just enforce the laws they have. ie masks if cannot maintain 6' distance. I repeatedly compare laws and such to raising kids. If you tell your kid not to do something "or else" and you don't follow through, then they are going to do what they want. If Plymouth police started randomly handing out nice big fines, I bet compliance would improve. Much more logical solution.
Glad you approved of the metaphor. I cannot claim ownership. The original was a bit less PG.
It sounds like part of it is just simply a lack of enforcement, but I also am guessing part of it is a lack of ability to enforce. Everyone would just show up to court and say, "How did you measure that distance between me and the other person?" And they would win because how can the police defend that? By eliminating the 6 ft. exemption, you also make it possible to enforce.3 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Non-sequiter incoming, but:
About the purchase of alcohol, I think every state needs to incorporate some kind of technology into their IDs if they haven't already that can then be read/scanned at a point-of-sale system before alcohol can be purchased. This takes the issue entirely out of the hands of cashiers. I say this as a former manager of a liquor store. Some customers can give you a really hard time about this. Also, the state liquor board loves to run "sting" operations wherein if a cashier neglects to check ID, they can be held personally liable over and above the store's liability. I think it's just a revenue stream for them, but it's stupid. Automate that nonsense.
For many years, I have seen stores scanning state-issued ID's. My understanding is that the barcode contains the information and a computer can quickly collect and analyze that information. But it can also store that information, meaning my junk mail increases. I'm willing to sign up for store accounts that track my purchases and send me deals when there is a benefit to me to do that. But not as a condition of making a particular purchase. In response, I've been using a passport card for years to do this.
Sometimes they try to scan it and then get frustrated when the computer can't understand it. My response is to explain how the passport card barcode works (it is just a number to identify your records in the State Dept. database... without access to that database, the number is worthless). And then go on to remind them that it is a government issued ID and still meets their requirement. I rarely get denied a purchase for that.
The exception is if I am buying something where the seller is required by law to collect my name, address, and date of birth... specifically if I am buying a gun, I use my state-issued ID.
Wow!! You make buying a gun sound like such an ordinary everyday transaction.
It is. And a complicated one. But that's controversial, so we shouldn't talk about it.6 -
Well, son of a biscuit, dh just got a call back from his dr. and he tested positive.
I think he was as surprised as I was. I'm hoping and praying the viral load he received during exposure was very little. So far, he's had a low grade fever 2 days, and a cough that hasn't been too bad. He started with symptoms last Tuesday night so keeping my fingers crossed it doesn't progress into anything worse.
So now I'm waiting for a call from my dr. so I can schedule a test.
I think the worse news that dh got was he cannot return to work until after the 25th and he has to have 3 days of being symptom free. He's going completely nutso being home and being with me.
Yes. That's apparently one downside of the virus for some people. Having to spend too much time together. Can't say I really understand it myself, but everyone's different I suppose.0 -
Just to clarify something: gathering outdoors wearing masks with minimized close contact is a relatively low risk behavior, and I don't believe is generally against any covid guidelines in the US, though obviously I'm not familiar with every locality's suggestions.
Crowded outdoor venues are slightly more risky, but masking up and keeping people from loitering in one spot for too long seems to mitigate risks. I do believe in some parts of the country, there are limits to outdoor crowd size though, probably so masking and distancing don't have to be policed.
It is outdoor events where people don't wear masks or distance that can become a super spreader.8 -
kshama2001 wrote: »I just saw this online. I am sure that people want to spend Thanksgiving with friends and families, I do; however, it is risky. Better staying home enjoying the turkey on your own or with only people already in your bubble.
Yes, I get it is not fun and it is depressing, but I think that being in the hospital with tubes up your…. may be worse.
Don't rely on a negative test result to see your family for Thanksgiving
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/16/health/thanksgiving-family-covid-testing-wellness/index.html
My key takeaway:
"The study estimated that during four days of infection before symptoms typically started, the probability of getting an incorrect/negative test result on Day 1 was 100%."
Yes. That's why we're doing second tests a few days after a negative, for anyone who had potential exposure during overseas travel. And that's working very well for picking up some cases that may have otherwise slipped through the net.5 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I think my work just made a mistake. In order to strongly discourage employees from either traveling out of state or having visitors from out of state for Thanksgiving or Christmas, they are requiring 14 days of quarantine if you travel or have out of state visitors...that's actually nothing new...the new wrinkle is that instead of teleworking for those 2 weeks as has been done previously, you are now required to use your annual leave and get written permission from on high to either travel or have someone out of state travel to you.
For the most part, from what I've heard around the water cooler and break room is that most people aren't planning on anything big...but so and so's kid will be visiting from Texas or so and so's husband's mom will be visiting from Arizona, etc...but by and large people don't seem to be planning large get togethers.
The punitive nature of this new mandate is already causing problems, and it's only Monday afternoon. I'm in management and I'm already getting things like, "my husband doesn't care if I have permission or not, he told me that he's not your employee and his mom will be visiting from Texas for Christmas." We also have a lot of employees with grown children who live out of state and while not planning a big tadoo for the holidays, they will be visiting back home. One of those people is our primary IT guy and he's basically said, "fine...I'll use my annual leave, but don't bother calling, because my phone and email will be off if I'm on a forced vacation." Another employee is upset because his sister lives in state, but works in southern Colorado so she commutes out of state daily and as such is considered to be an "out of state" visitor.
The bigger issue I think is that you're going to basically have a lot of people just lying about it and saying they aren't traveling or hosting out of state visitors when they really are and thus avoiding any quarantine period whatsoever, when in the past they would have complied with the quarantine period and just teleworked. On the other side, you're going to have people comply...and fully comply in that since they are on annual leave, they will not be available and responding to emails or phone calls.
We also have some new questions on our form that we fill out daily whether we are teleworking or coming to the office. Any yes answer on the form requires the employee to get a covid test and self quarantine for 14 days (can telework if their work can be done by that means)...the two added questions are do you have a runny nose or diarrhea? Fall allergies here are pretty common and just about everyone has a runny nose in the fall...that question alone just put about 70% of our workforce into quarantine starting today. I'm also hearing some chatter of people possibly using this as a work around for having to quarantine for 14 days using vacation time for having out of state visitors in that they see it as a responsible thing to quarantine...but instead of saying it's for visitors, they'll just say they have a runny nose so they can still work at home while responsibly quarantining.
I think the higher ups made a bigger mess of all of this than it already was...I'm hoping they might walk back some of it.
I am constantly shocked about how people/companies/government don't always foresee the potential unintended responses they trigger with their edicts.
Yeah...I talked with my boss yesterday about this as I have more interaction with the rank and file and told him that we went from having a pretty compliant workforce with overall positive morale to a defiant workforce with about zero morale overnight. We already had pretty strict requirements in place...but making people who can otherwise work at home in quarantine use their leave pissed everyone off.
I'd be interested to know what your boss's response was, because they don't always seem receptive to input from anybody.3 -
Yeah, it was the nurse from South Dakota.
It's not the welding mask they're skimping on, but there's a degree of interaction when the welding isn't going on and some classroom time, and that's when people aren't masking cause they don't believe in it. (sigh)4 -
Many events have been cancelled this year because of the chance of covid spread. Some, like Minnesota’s Guthrie Theatre’s annual production of “A Christmas Carol”, are going to be streamed. Nothing, re:covid, is written in stone. I would be very surprised, and extremely disappointed, if there weren’t some kind of alternative for the inauguration to take place safely. Especially since this was such a divisive issue during the campaign. I’m hoping they’ll stay true to their convictions for the very first action of this administration.6
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Well, son of a biscuit, dh just got a call back from his dr. and he tested positive. I think he was as surprised as I was. I'm hoping and praying the viral load he received during exposure was very little. So far, he's had a low grade fever 2 days, and a cough that hasn't been too bad. He started with symptoms last Tuesday night so keeping my fingers crossed it doesn't progress into anything worse.
So now I'm waiting for a call from my dr. so I can schedule a test.
I think the worse news that dh got was he cannot return to work until after the 25th and he has to have 3 days of being symptom free. He's going completely nutso being home and being with me.
Yes. That's apparently one downside of the virus for some people. Having to spend too much time together. Can't say I really understand it myself, but everyone's different I suppose.
You can only understand it from your own personal perspective. For instance, we were told to stay away from each other and always wear a mask within 6'. Sounds simple enough right? Unfortunately, 1. we have a small house 969 sq.' so not a lot of options of places to hide. 2. we have 1 bathroom 3. we both have to use the same kitchen, bathroom, living room, etc. 4. considering all the places our hands touch it's unbelievable how often I'm wiping down, cleaning, etc. throughout the day. and 5. my spouse coughs everywhere while wearing his mask around his chin, he's constantly touching his face, nose and washes his hands *maybe* 2x a day.
So yeh, even though I've told him, even his kids have told him and he should know better, he still either is clueless or too lazy to do all that he should. First a.m. he got up with a fever and was coughing, I watched as he coughed all over the kitchen counter. It's in his personal hygiene make-up; maybe it was his upbringing being 1 of 8 kids and the parents both worked so never had the time to teach properly. IDK.
You see why *I* have a personally hard time being with him 24/7?? I can only obsess and do so much cleaning up after him, I've given up reminding him because then *I'm* a nag, and hoping for the best but my own personal situation brings out the resentment in me.
Just a vent for the day.
36 -
Well, son of a biscuit, dh just got a call back from his dr. and he tested positive. I think he was as surprised as I was. I'm hoping and praying the viral load he received during exposure was very little. So far, he's had a low grade fever 2 days, and a cough that hasn't been too bad. He started with symptoms last Tuesday night so keeping my fingers crossed it doesn't progress into anything worse.
So now I'm waiting for a call from my dr. so I can schedule a test.
I think the worse news that dh got was he cannot return to work until after the 25th and he has to have 3 days of being symptom free. He's going completely nutso being home and being with me.
Yes. That's apparently one downside of the virus for some people. Having to spend too much time together. Can't say I really understand it myself, but everyone's different I suppose.
You can only understand it from your own personal perspective. For instance, we were told to stay away from each other and always wear a mask within 6'. Sounds simple enough right? Unfortunately, 1. we have a small house 969 sq.' so not a lot of options of places to hide. 2. we have 1 bathroom 3. we both have to use the same kitchen, bathroom, living room, etc. 4. considering all the places our hands touch it's unbelievable how often I'm wiping down, cleaning, etc. throughout the day. and 5. my spouse coughs everywhere while wearing his mask around his chin, he's constantly touching his face, nose and washes his hands *maybe* 2x a day. So yeh, even though I've told him, even his kids have told him and he should know better, he still either is clueless or too lazy to do all that he should. First a.m. he got up with a fever and was coughing, I watched as he coughed all over the kitchen counter. It's in his personal hygiene make-up; maybe it was his upbringing being 1 of 8 kids and the parents both worked so never had the time to teach properly. IDK.
You see why *I* have a personally hard time being with him 24/7?? I can only obsess and do so much cleaning up after him, I've given up reminding him because then *I'm* a nag, and hoping for the best but my own personal situation brings out the resentment in me.
Just a vent for the day.
Sending hugs. Did you get your test results back? How is he doing and how are you feeling?5 -
Well, son of a biscuit, dh just got a call back from his dr. and he tested positive. I think he was as surprised as I was. I'm hoping and praying the viral load he received during exposure was very little. So far, he's had a low grade fever 2 days, and a cough that hasn't been too bad. He started with symptoms last Tuesday night so keeping my fingers crossed it doesn't progress into anything worse.
So now I'm waiting for a call from my dr. so I can schedule a test.
I think the worse news that dh got was he cannot return to work until after the 25th and he has to have 3 days of being symptom free. He's going completely nutso being home and being with me.
Yes. That's apparently one downside of the virus for some people. Having to spend too much time together. Can't say I really understand it myself, but everyone's different I suppose.
You can only understand it from your own personal perspective. For instance, we were told to stay away from each other and always wear a mask within 6'. Sounds simple enough right? Unfortunately, 1. we have a small house 969 sq.' so not a lot of options of places to hide. 2. we have 1 bathroom 3. we both have to use the same kitchen, bathroom, living room, etc. 4. considering all the places our hands touch it's unbelievable how often I'm wiping down, cleaning, etc. throughout the day. and 5. my spouse coughs everywhere while wearing his mask around his chin, he's constantly touching his face, nose and washes his hands *maybe* 2x a day. So yeh, even though I've told him, even his kids have told him and he should know better, he still either is clueless or too lazy to do all that he should. First a.m. he got up with a fever and was coughing, I watched as he coughed all over the kitchen counter. It's in his personal hygiene make-up; maybe it was his upbringing being 1 of 8 kids and the parents both worked so never had the time to teach properly. IDK.
You see why *I* have a personally hard time being with him 24/7?? I can only obsess and do so much cleaning up after him, I've given up reminding him because then *I'm* a nag, and hoping for the best but my own personal situation brings out the resentment in me.
Just a vent for the day.
*hugs* Dang. 😥 That is terrible. When my hubby got covid back in March and we knew very little, he wore his mask all the time and we have a small space as well. It was scary even then. My heart goes out to you and hope he takes it more serious.8 -
JustSomeEm wrote: »Well, son of a biscuit, dh just got a call back from his dr. and he tested positive. I think he was as surprised as I was. I'm hoping and praying the viral load he received during exposure was very little. So far, he's had a low grade fever 2 days, and a cough that hasn't been too bad. He started with symptoms last Tuesday night so keeping my fingers crossed it doesn't progress into anything worse.
So now I'm waiting for a call from my dr. so I can schedule a test.
I think the worse news that dh got was he cannot return to work until after the 25th and he has to have 3 days of being symptom free. He's going completely nutso being home and being with me.
Yes. That's apparently one downside of the virus for some people. Having to spend too much time together. Can't say I really understand it myself, but everyone's different I suppose.
You can only understand it from your own personal perspective. For instance, we were told to stay away from each other and always wear a mask within 6'. Sounds simple enough right? Unfortunately, 1. we have a small house 969 sq.' so not a lot of options of places to hide. 2. we have 1 bathroom 3. we both have to use the same kitchen, bathroom, living room, etc. 4. considering all the places our hands touch it's unbelievable how often I'm wiping down, cleaning, etc. throughout the day. and 5. my spouse coughs everywhere while wearing his mask around his chin, he's constantly touching his face, nose and washes his hands *maybe* 2x a day. So yeh, even though I've told him, even his kids have told him and he should know better, he still either is clueless or too lazy to do all that he should. First a.m. he got up with a fever and was coughing, I watched as he coughed all over the kitchen counter. It's in his personal hygiene make-up; maybe it was his upbringing being 1 of 8 kids and the parents both worked so never had the time to teach properly. IDK.
You see why *I* have a personally hard time being with him 24/7?? I can only obsess and do so much cleaning up after him, I've given up reminding him because then *I'm* a nag, and hoping for the best but my own personal situation brings out the resentment in me.
Just a vent for the day.
Sending hugs. Did you get your test results back? How is he doing and how are you feeling?
Results here take 5-7 days. So I'll start bugging the dr. Friday. Not sure why it takes so long? I feel fine though. Now I'm skeptical if the test will be accurate with no symptoms.
DH has a cough and that's it, TG. They said he can go back to work Monday, as long as he has no fever. He's been very very lucky handling this. He takes Statins and said he heard that they can help you have a milder case. IDK, plus he's really not that close with anyone at work, just eats lunch with a small group. So who knows?
Thanks for asking
5 -
Well, son of a biscuit, dh just got a call back from his dr. and he tested positive. I think he was as surprised as I was. I'm hoping and praying the viral load he received during exposure was very little. So far, he's had a low grade fever 2 days, and a cough that hasn't been too bad. He started with symptoms last Tuesday night so keeping my fingers crossed it doesn't progress into anything worse.
So now I'm waiting for a call from my dr. so I can schedule a test.
I think the worse news that dh got was he cannot return to work until after the 25th and he has to have 3 days of being symptom free. He's going completely nutso being home and being with me.
Yes. That's apparently one downside of the virus for some people. Having to spend too much time together. Can't say I really understand it myself, but everyone's different I suppose.
You can only understand it from your own personal perspective. For instance, we were told to stay away from each other and always wear a mask within 6'. Sounds simple enough right? Unfortunately, 1. we have a small house 969 sq.' so not a lot of options of places to hide. 2. we have 1 bathroom 3. we both have to use the same kitchen, bathroom, living room, etc. 4. considering all the places our hands touch it's unbelievable how often I'm wiping down, cleaning, etc. throughout the day. and 5. my spouse coughs everywhere while wearing his mask around his chin, he's constantly touching his face, nose and washes his hands *maybe* 2x a day. So yeh, even though I've told him, even his kids have told him and he should know better, he still either is clueless or too lazy to do all that he should. First a.m. he got up with a fever and was coughing, I watched as he coughed all over the kitchen counter. It's in his personal hygiene make-up; maybe it was his upbringing being 1 of 8 kids and the parents both worked so never had the time to teach properly. IDK.
You see why *I* have a personally hard time being with him 24/7?? I can only obsess and do so much cleaning up after him, I've given up reminding him because then *I'm* a nag, and hoping for the best but my own personal situation brings out the resentment in me.
Just a vent for the day.
Ouch!! That's not nice. When I was at home with my wife for 6 weeks during our working from home phase, neither of us was ill, so those issues didn't specifically arise. I believe the whole point in stay at home orders is to keep everyone within the same small group and not exposed to other people.
But apart from his bad hygiene habits, I'm hearing of lots of other people with relationship issues, who are glad for a normal work day out of the house away from their partners. That's really sad.4 -
Well, son of a biscuit, dh just got a call back from his dr. and he tested positive. I think he was as surprised as I was. I'm hoping and praying the viral load he received during exposure was very little. So far, he's had a low grade fever 2 days, and a cough that hasn't been too bad. He started with symptoms last Tuesday night so keeping my fingers crossed it doesn't progress into anything worse.
So now I'm waiting for a call from my dr. so I can schedule a test.
I think the worse news that dh got was he cannot return to work until after the 25th and he has to have 3 days of being symptom free. He's going completely nutso being home and being with me.
Yes. That's apparently one downside of the virus for some people. Having to spend too much time together. Can't say I really understand it myself, but everyone's different I suppose.
You can only understand it from your own personal perspective. For instance, we were told to stay away from each other and always wear a mask within 6'. Sounds simple enough right? Unfortunately, 1. we have a small house 969 sq.' so not a lot of options of places to hide. 2. we have 1 bathroom 3. we both have to use the same kitchen, bathroom, living room, etc. 4. considering all the places our hands touch it's unbelievable how often I'm wiping down, cleaning, etc. throughout the day. and 5. my spouse coughs everywhere while wearing his mask around his chin, he's constantly touching his face, nose and washes his hands *maybe* 2x a day. So yeh, even though I've told him, even his kids have told him and he should know better, he still either is clueless or too lazy to do all that he should. First a.m. he got up with a fever and was coughing, I watched as he coughed all over the kitchen counter. It's in his personal hygiene make-up; maybe it was his upbringing being 1 of 8 kids and the parents both worked so never had the time to teach properly. IDK.
You see why *I* have a personally hard time being with him 24/7?? I can only obsess and do so much cleaning up after him, I've given up reminding him because then *I'm* a nag, and hoping for the best but my own personal situation brings out the resentment in me.
Just a vent for the day.
My youngest is like that when he's sick. He's just disgusting. And coming from a guy, that says a lot. But he was also a wrestler and now does MMA, so he's a bit of an animal. And I'm like a germaphobe, so we're like the Odd Couple. His mom literally would spray him with Lysol when he was sick out of aggravation. She doesn't take any guff. I think she trained me the way she liked me. Worked with me, not so much with my son. Completely whipped my rear end into shape. Maybe he's more stubborn, like her?3 -
So just broke the news to my family that I will not be joining them for Thanksgiving. I may go over later in the day to have dessert outside if the weather will allow it, but otherwise I am staying home. I just don't think it is safe to have that many people in a single house all near each other. And sadly, I can't trust that everyone will have been taking precautions in their every day life. So now I will be alone on Thanksgiving.28
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So just broke the news to my family that I will not be joining them for Thanksgiving. I may go over later in the day to have dessert outside if the weather will allow it, but otherwise I am staying home. I just don't think it is safe to have that many people in a single house all near each other. And sadly, I can't trust that everyone will have been taking precautions in their every day life. So now I will be alone on Thanksgiving.
Having dessert outside was exactly one suggestion for holiday risk mitigation I heard on the radio yesterday in a conversation with a public health official
I'm from Massachusetts (someplace with a proper winter) and lived in South Florida (tropical climate) for 7 years. Due to the vastly different weather, it never felt like Thanksgiving, my birthday, or Christmas. I lived with someone for whom these holidays were just another day to go to the beach, but didn't miss them, because it never felt like holiday season.
I normally start baking like a fiend this time of year and mail goodies to distant friends and coworkers, but am just not into it this year, perhaps because of the unseasonably warm weather that has just ended, perhaps because 2020 has been so crazy.
I'm just writing off 2020 for big family holidays and hoping next year will be better.
For those of you who might find memes about this enjoyable, come see:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10789131/coronavirus-memes7 -
Well, son of a biscuit, dh just got a call back from his dr. and he tested positive. I think he was as surprised as I was. I'm hoping and praying the viral load he received during exposure was very little. So far, he's had a low grade fever 2 days, and a cough that hasn't been too bad. He started with symptoms last Tuesday night so keeping my fingers crossed it doesn't progress into anything worse.
So now I'm waiting for a call from my dr. so I can schedule a test.
I think the worse news that dh got was he cannot return to work until after the 25th and he has to have 3 days of being symptom free. He's going completely nutso being home and being with me.
Yes. That's apparently one downside of the virus for some people. Having to spend too much time together. Can't say I really understand it myself, but everyone's different I suppose.
You can only understand it from your own personal perspective. For instance, we were told to stay away from each other and always wear a mask within 6'. Sounds simple enough right? Unfortunately, 1. we have a small house 969 sq.' so not a lot of options of places to hide. 2. we have 1 bathroom 3. we both have to use the same kitchen, bathroom, living room, etc. 4. considering all the places our hands touch it's unbelievable how often I'm wiping down, cleaning, etc. throughout the day. and 5. my spouse coughs everywhere while wearing his mask around his chin, he's constantly touching his face, nose and washes his hands *maybe* 2x a day. So yeh, even though I've told him, even his kids have told him and he should know better, he still either is clueless or too lazy to do all that he should. First a.m. he got up with a fever and was coughing, I watched as he coughed all over the kitchen counter. It's in his personal hygiene make-up; maybe it was his upbringing being 1 of 8 kids and the parents both worked so never had the time to teach properly. IDK.
You see why *I* have a personally hard time being with him 24/7?? I can only obsess and do so much cleaning up after him, I've given up reminding him because then *I'm* a nag, and hoping for the best but my own personal situation brings out the resentment in me.
Just a vent for the day.
Yikes! I think I would be walking around with a can of disinfectant spray and just spraying everything... light switches, cupboard handles, sink handles, doorknobs, etc.2 -
More good news on the front to combat this from Pfizer's vaccine development effort. Updated final results indicate 95% effectiveness. I know there are many that are concerned about the potential adverse effects with the protracted development, but at this time I think the cost benefit analysis is heavily in favor of the vaccine.
The Pfizer vaccine development was not a part of Operation Warp Speed.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/11/18/936060122/pfizer-to-seek-fda-ok-for-covid-19-vaccine-within-days6 -
So just broke the news to my family that I will not be joining them for Thanksgiving. I may go over later in the day to have dessert outside if the weather will allow it, but otherwise I am staying home. I just don't think it is safe to have that many people in a single house all near each other. And sadly, I can't trust that everyone will have been taking precautions in their every day life. So now I will be alone on Thanksgiving.
I'm having to make the same hard decision. It really sucks because like you I am alone. My family is all in another state, and my partner is stuck across the country.18 -
I too will be alone during the Holidays- but I am determined to do the best I can to do my part during this difficult time. I will call family- facetime or google duo whatever to SEE faces if possible- eat my food- get online with you guys and make the BEST day I can- because next year WILL come- and I want all of us here to see it if possible!22
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South Dakota finally released the adult ICU bed numbers. When they included NICU the available beds were 33%, now it's 18% for adult-sized beds.5
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