Calorie Deficit and holding or gaining weight any thoughts on why?
Replies
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Good observation,
....so that points to sugar rich, loaded with dry fruit being a BIG no no for me anytime hey!...So sad
it was so nice too!
Noted and off the list altogether.
thanks
Andrew0 -
a simple pinch test is showing me that the fat layer around the belly and sides is quite a bit thicker than in other parts.
But isnt that normal - don't most people have more fat on their belly than other parts of the body, even if at a healthy weight?
since you are close to ideal weight, perhaps your issue is more re comp than more weight loss - ie strengthen your abdominal muscles so your belly is less flabby?
Just a thought.3 -
4ajguthrie wrote: »Good observation,
....so that points to sugar rich, loaded with dry fruit being a BIG no no for me anytime hey!...So sad
it was so nice too!
Noted and off the list altogether.
thanks
Andrew
No, not necessarily. When we metabolize carbs, our body holds onto a bit of water weight, releases it when it's done. The water associated with our typical carb intake is part of what we're used to seeing on the scale, so we don't even realize. But if we eat noticeably more carbs/sugar than usual, the scale tends to jump upward. But it's not fat gain, so there's no reason to worry about it, if you ask me. It's just part of how a healthy body behaves.
Personally, I'm not going to stop enjoying the occasional indulgent treat, just to avoid a temporary and meaningless water weight jump. YMMV. Personally, I'm concerned about body fat, which is all about the calories; it tends to be reflected in longer term (multi-week) trends on the scale, not day to day random jumps.
(Lots of other things can cause water weight jumps on the scale, too. Best to understand and accept them, I think, not stress out and over-react. Just my view, though.)6 -
paperpudding wrote: »a simple pinch test is showing me that the fat layer around the belly and sides is quite a bit thicker than in other parts.
But isnt that normal - don't most people have more fat on their belly than other parts of the body, even if at a healthy weight?
since you are close to ideal weight, perhaps your issue is more re comp than more weight loss - ie strengthen your abdominal muscles so your belly is less flabby?
Just a thought.
@paperpudding
Well it is a common sight today. Many years ago when I was young I lived in rural Africa. Then it was absolutely uncommon to see anyone, male or female, overweight. Even the old Grandma's that had come up in their youth by ox wagon were slimmer than today.
Getting fit and strengthening my body, targeting core, and the muscle supporting my spine are my 'goal' I am assuming that as a natural outcome of that the abs and back will get a tad denser. Perhaps 80-90% of the weight I have removed is from that area. I have a light frame, chicken legs and spider arms.
I actually have a my senior school shorts still and I am getting very close to being able to get into them AND do ALL the buttons up. In September I could only just get them over my butt and the waist band went only a tad more than 2/3rds around my waist!!! the tape measure told me that my middle (around the belly button ) was 39.2"!!!!0 -
4ajguthrie wrote: »Good observation,
....so that points to sugar rich, loaded with dry fruit being a BIG no no for me anytime hey!...So sad
it was so nice too!
Noted and off the list altogether.
thanks
Andrew
No, not necessarily. When we metabolize carbs, our body holds onto a bit of water weight, releases it when it's done. The water associated with our typical carb intake is part of what we're used to seeing on the scale, so we don't even realize. But if we eat noticeably more carbs/sugar than usual, the scale tends to jump upward. But it's not fat gain, so there's no reason to worry about it, if you ask me. It's just part of how a healthy body behaves.
Personally, I'm not going to stop enjoying the occasional indulgent treat, just to avoid a temporary and meaningless water weight jump. YMMV. Personally, I'm concerned about body fat, which is all about the calories; it tends to be reflected in longer term (multi-week) trends on the scale, not day to day random jumps.
(Lots of other things can cause water weight jumps on the scale, too. Best to understand and accept them, I think, not stress out and over-react. Just my view, though.)
@AnnPT77
I am prone to fluid retention anyway, apparently due to AF? However, in the bad ol' days pre 2000 I drank only tea or sweet drinks ( don't do alcohol or smoke). I made a start at supplementing some water but only the odd glass and not on a regular basis. Sept. I dropped all 'drinks' and now only drink water with an occasional green tea after lunch. Otherwise a post meal drink is warm water. We are blessed with having a pure mineral water bore on the farm so that's my go to now. Strangely since upping the water, and significantly increasing exercise the fluid retention is not showing itself.
It is becoming apparent that weight fluctuation is normal, something I have to become accustomed to. In days gone by I rarely showed any variation, did not have to think about what I ate or when...that seems to have changed some time late in my 50's.
I truly believed that the weight in my belly was a natural thing as an aging male, so did not give it a second thought. My Doctors have never said I should lose weight either...that all added to the shock when my partner said she thought I had lost a lot of weight and got on the scales and put on a pair of trousers with a belt....I was shocked to the core and that motivated me to get serious about overall fitness rather than just the targeted stretching I was doing for my back.
Sorry I am waffelin' on but the last three months have been an astonishing revelation to me.
Cheers
Andrew2 -
4ajguthrie wrote: »4ajguthrie wrote: »Good observation,
....so that points to sugar rich, loaded with dry fruit being a BIG no no for me anytime hey!...So sad
it was so nice too!
Noted and off the list altogether.
thanks
Andrew
No, not necessarily. When we metabolize carbs, our body holds onto a bit of water weight, releases it when it's done. The water associated with our typical carb intake is part of what we're used to seeing on the scale, so we don't even realize. But if we eat noticeably more carbs/sugar than usual, the scale tends to jump upward. But it's not fat gain, so there's no reason to worry about it, if you ask me. It's just part of how a healthy body behaves.
Personally, I'm not going to stop enjoying the occasional indulgent treat, just to avoid a temporary and meaningless water weight jump. YMMV. Personally, I'm concerned about body fat, which is all about the calories; it tends to be reflected in longer term (multi-week) trends on the scale, not day to day random jumps.
(Lots of other things can cause water weight jumps on the scale, too. Best to understand and accept them, I think, not stress out and over-react. Just my view, though.)
@AnnPT77
I am prone to fluid retention anyway, apparently due to AF? However, in the bad ol' days pre 2000 I drank only tea or sweet drinks ( don't do alcohol or smoke). I made a start at supplementing some water but only the odd glass and not on a regular basis. Sept. I dropped all 'drinks' and now only drink water with an occasional green tea after lunch. Otherwise a post meal drink is warm water. We are blessed with having a pure mineral water bore on the farm so that's my go to now. Strangely since upping the water, and significantly increasing exercise the fluid retention is not showing itself.
It is becoming apparent that weight fluctuation is normal, something I have to become accustomed to. In days gone by I rarely showed any variation, did not have to think about what I ate or when...that seems to have changed some time late in my 50's.
I truly believed that the weight in my belly was a natural thing as an aging male, so did not give it a second thought. My Doctors have never said I should lose weight either...that all added to the shock when my partner said she thought I had lost a lot of weight and got on the scales and put on a pair of trousers with a belt....I was shocked to the core and that motivated me to get serious about overall fitness rather than just the targeted stretching I was doing for my back.
Sorry I am waffelin' on but the last three months have been an astonishing revelation to me.
Cheers
Andrew
You may find this article informative:
https://physiqonomics.com/the-weird-and-highly-annoying-world-of-scale-weight-and-fluctuations1 -
4ajguthrie wrote: »4ajguthrie wrote: »Good observation,
....so that points to sugar rich, loaded with dry fruit being a BIG no no for me anytime hey!...So sad
it was so nice too!
Noted and off the list altogether.
thanks
Andrew
No, not necessarily. When we metabolize carbs, our body holds onto a bit of water weight, releases it when it's done. The water associated with our typical carb intake is part of what we're used to seeing on the scale, so we don't even realize. But if we eat noticeably more carbs/sugar than usual, the scale tends to jump upward. But it's not fat gain, so there's no reason to worry about it, if you ask me. It's just part of how a healthy body behaves.
Personally, I'm not going to stop enjoying the occasional indulgent treat, just to avoid a temporary and meaningless water weight jump. YMMV. Personally, I'm concerned about body fat, which is all about the calories; it tends to be reflected in longer term (multi-week) trends on the scale, not day to day random jumps.
(Lots of other things can cause water weight jumps on the scale, too. Best to understand and accept them, I think, not stress out and over-react. Just my view, though.)
@AnnPT77
I am prone to fluid retention anyway, apparently due to AF? However, in the bad ol' days pre 2000 I drank only tea or sweet drinks ( don't do alcohol or smoke). I made a start at supplementing some water but only the odd glass and not on a regular basis. Sept. I dropped all 'drinks' and now only drink water with an occasional green tea after lunch. Otherwise a post meal drink is warm water. We are blessed with having a pure mineral water bore on the farm so that's my go to now. Strangely since upping the water, and significantly increasing exercise the fluid retention is not showing itself.
It is becoming apparent that weight fluctuation is normal, something I have to become accustomed to. In days gone by I rarely showed any variation, did not have to think about what I ate or when...that seems to have changed some time late in my 50's.
I truly believed that the weight in my belly was a natural thing as an aging male, so did not give it a second thought. My Doctors have never said I should lose weight either...that all added to the shock when my partner said she thought I had lost a lot of weight and got on the scales and put on a pair of trousers with a belt....I was shocked to the core and that motivated me to get serious about overall fitness rather than just the targeted stretching I was doing for my back.
Sorry I am waffelin' on but the last three months have been an astonishing revelation to me.
Cheers
Andrew
You may find this article informative:
https://physiqonomics.com/the-weird-and-highly-annoying-world-of-scale-weight-and-fluctuations
@AnnPT77
Now that is my kind of reading and answers a lot of questions I was afraid to ask (haha!)
many, many thanks for that it will help HEAPS.
Pity my partner is still snoozing when I get up to exercise I'm getting to the point where I require a screen, Tom Petty best of collection video, or similar at full noise and just rip the hell out of the carpet for an hour ( still cant not move when the music gets serious thanks to a mis-spent youth, middle age and ....? 'still!!) )... I might just switch now that summer is kicking in and do my 6km walk first, that gives her an hours grace and do the indoor exercise after I get back.
Cheers
Andrew1 -
My suggestions for logging your exercise:
Log the entire duration of your stength training in the CV part of the diary (rather than individual exercises) - it's a modest estimate which is truthful as strength training may feel hard but is not a big burner.
Search for "Strength training (weight lifting, weight training)"
For walking the database here is badly inflated as it's a gross calorie estimate which means you double count your basal calories (skews the numbers badly for long duration but low burn exercise). Pick the net calorie estimate from this calculator instead - https://exrx.net/Calculators/WalkRunMETs
Heartrate is a very poor metric for estimating calorie burns from both strength training and walking.
@sijomial
Gee you were not kidding it skews the calculations....MFP credits 497Calories for a 6km walk where Walk/RunMETs calculates it at 225calories.
Just as well I have not been relying on the data to plan my calories in !!!!
Thanks for that link
Cheers
Andrew3 -
4ajguthrie wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »a simple pinch test is showing me that the fat layer around the belly and sides is quite a bit thicker than in other parts.
But isnt that normal - don't most people have more fat on their belly than other parts of the body, even if at a healthy weight?
since you are close to ideal weight, perhaps your issue is more re comp than more weight loss - ie strengthen your abdominal muscles so your belly is less flabby?
Just a thought.
@paperpudding
Well it is a common sight today. Many years ago when I was young I lived in rural Africa. Then it was absolutely uncommon to see anyone, male or female, overweight. Even the old Grandma's that had come up in their youth by ox wagon were slimmer than today.
well, sure - people in rural Africa probably had very little body fat anywhere, but still more on belly than anywhere else.
and presumably they had a life of physical labour - so they wouldn't have a flabby belly but strong abdominal muscles.
1 -
I would guess a lot of what you're interpreting to be belly fat is actually loose skin with small lumps of fat pulling it down and making it more obvious. It might still retract some, given enough time.3
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Mithridites wrote: »I would guess a lot of what you're interpreting to be belly fat is actually loose skin with small lumps of fat pulling it down and making it more obvious. It might still retract some, given enough time.
@Mithridites
Not the case here. Very conversant with skinfold pinch test to identify fat layer...don't have access to proper calipers anymore but Its pretty obvious.
there are two places where I do have loose skin (just) I was not that badly overweight. I can just lift theskin laye and its paper thin and quite different.
thanks for taking the time to post
cheers
Andrew0 -
paperpudding wrote: »4ajguthrie wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »a simple pinch test is showing me that the fat layer around the belly and sides is quite a bit thicker than in other parts.
But isnt that normal - don't most people have more fat on their belly than other parts of the body, even if at a healthy weight?
since you are close to ideal weight, perhaps your issue is more re comp than more weight loss - ie strengthen your abdominal muscles so your belly is less flabby?
Just a thought.
@paperpudding
Well it is a common sight today. Many years ago when I was young I lived in rural Africa. Then it was absolutely uncommon to see anyone, male or female, overweight. Even the old Grandma's that had come up in their youth by ox wagon were slimmer than today.
well, sure - people in rural Africa probably had very little body fat anywhere, but still more on belly than anywhere else.
and presumably they had a life of physical labour - so they wouldn't have a flabby belly but strong abdominal muscles.
@paperpudding
I believe we ate clean, unadulterated veggies and meat, our chickens were antibiotic free and full cream milk was very safe to consume. The air was lead free, and yes everyone walked far more than they do today even in the towns. There were no fast foods, sugar loaded drinks of every kind nor was there the blight of highly processed packaged food loaded with salt and sugars,The first imported fruit I saw was as a late teenager, Oranges from Israel, and lychees. If food was out of season, it was unavailable. It was a very different world believe me, and the effects of the poison we are being supplied in our food and drink is more to blame than exercise, farmers had tractors and workers, office workers still sat in chairs but climbed stairs more I guess.
Cheers
Andrew1 -
I disagree.
I would say the effects of muscle strength and weight on people in rural Africa (or anywhere) was a result of amount of calories eaten and physical activity done.
Not so called poison in foods or eating clean.
5 -
I am not happy that my weight loss has mysteriously stopped since the Holidays. I WAS losing weight last even if I drank (too much) all the fall. Then I turned Turkey dry.... no more weight loss in 12 days lol.... my log is duly maintained and I weight even food like the butter and peanut butter. I started doing cross-country ski everyday, it might be related... At the same time my waist is better, so I have no doubt that it will return... in the meanwhile it sucks, though.1
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paperpudding wrote: »I disagree.
I would say the effects of muscle strength and weight on people in rural Africa (or anywhere) was a result of amount of calories eaten and physical activity done.
Not so called poison in foods or eating clean.
@paperpudding
On the subject of poison food, and eating clean we will have to agree to disagree.1 -
I am not happy that my weight loss has mysteriously stopped since the Holidays. I WAS losing weight last even if I drank (too much) all the fall. Then I turned Turkey dry.... no more weight loss in 12 days lol.... my log is duly maintained and I weight even food like the butter and peanut butter. I started doing cross-country ski everyday, it might be related... At the same time my waist is better, so I have no doubt that it will return... in the meanwhile it sucks, though.
@saintor1
As a result of all the information that folks have kindly given me in this thread I am now focused on maintaining and refining my current food and drink strategy. My exercise will also get some refining. The scales are going to get a daily visit and the weight noted....no more!
If I have a bit of excess water in there or a bit of fat under my skin so be it for now. Prime focus is good quality and quantity of food, rest and exercise to build my strength and we wait on the changes that will come.2 -
4ajguthrie wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »I disagree.
I would say the effects of muscle strength and weight on people in rural Africa (or anywhere) was a result of amount of calories eaten and physical activity done.
Not so called poison in foods or eating clean.
@paperpudding
On the subject of poison food, and eating clean we will have to agree to disagree.
If you are claiming there are any poisons in our food or eating clean is the secret to weight - then science disagrees too.
CICO.
Universal truth.6 -
paperpudding wrote: »4ajguthrie wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »I disagree.
I would say the effects of muscle strength and weight on people in rural Africa (or anywhere) was a result of amount of calories eaten and physical activity done.
Not so called poison in foods or eating clean.
@paperpudding
On the subject of poison food, and eating clean we will have to agree to disagree.
If you are claiming there are any poisons in our food or eating clean is the secret to weight - then science disagrees too.
CICO.
Universal truth.
@paperpudding
That assertion is clearly not anywhere near correct, basic research shows independent results that not only weight, but health and wellbeing which is inexorably linked. For the rest it seems that the ONLY science that disagrees, is bought, and vested interest science, or the kind of people that believe things like humankind is only 2000 years old. What is, and what people want it to be are two very different things. A diversity of opinion is good, but misleading information is just that.1 -
senalay788 wrote: »
I have said this before and will say it again. What you say is too simple and too easy.
True. We now know that your intake of calories is early in the day, there will be less absorption than if you take everything in the night for example. CICO is a good rule of thumb, but requires some nuances.
1 -
4ajguthrie wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »4ajguthrie wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »I disagree.
I would say the effects of muscle strength and weight on people in rural Africa (or anywhere) was a result of amount of calories eaten and physical activity done.
Not so called poison in foods or eating clean.
@paperpudding
On the subject of poison food, and eating clean we will have to agree to disagree.
If you are claiming there are any poisons in our food or eating clean is the secret to weight - then science disagrees too.
CICO.
Universal truth.
@paperpudding
That assertion is clearly not anywhere near correct, basic research shows independent results that not only weight, but health and wellbeing which is inexorably linked. For the rest it seems that the ONLY science that disagrees, is bought, and vested interest science, or the kind of people that believe things like humankind is only 2000 years old. What is, and what people want it to be are two very different things. A diversity of opinion is good, but misleading information is just that.
The only science that disagrees that CICO is what counts for weight loss are vested interest or people believing earth is only 2000 years old ???
oh dear.
3 -
True. We now know that your intake of calories is early in the day, there will be less absorption than if you take everything in the night for example. CICO is a good rule of thumb, but requires some nuances.
This is just silly. Fat loss happens when you take in fewer calories, it makes no difference at all whether you eat those calories early or late in the day.
7 -
senalay788 wrote: »
I have said this before and will say it again. What you say is too simple and too easy.
True. We now know that your intake of calories is early in the day, there will be less absorption than if you take everything in the night for example. CICO is a good rule of thumb, but requires some nuances.
In a direct, primary sense, calorie balance drives net fat storage or loss over time.
Indirectly, nutrition and food timing can affect weight loss via energy level (so fatigue and movement), satiation (so compliance), sleep quality, and other like factors.
CICO is an equation about calorie balance. That's all it is.
Humans need more than an equation in order to lose weight, in a practical sense, sure. But deprecating the direct and primary effect of calories on fat storage/loss in favor of those other factors is majoring in the minors, conceptually speaking.
None of the above should be taken to imply that I think nutrition is unimportant.5 -
4ajguthrie wrote: »I am not happy that my weight loss has mysteriously stopped since the Holidays. I WAS losing weight last even if I drank (too much) all the fall. Then I turned Turkey dry.... no more weight loss in 12 days lol.... my log is duly maintained and I weight even food like the butter and peanut butter. I started doing cross-country ski everyday, it might be related... At the same time my waist is better, so I have no doubt that it will return... in the meanwhile it sucks, though.
@saintor1
As a result of all the information that folks have kindly given me in this thread I am now focused on maintaining and refining my current food and drink strategy. My exercise will also get some refining. The scales are going to get a daily visit and the weight noted....no more!
If I have a bit of excess water in there or a bit of fat under my skin so be it for now. Prime focus is good quality and quantity of food, rest and exercise to build my strength and we wait on the changes that will come.
Good luck with all of the doctors, scientists and nutritionists giving you advice on this thread!
Agree. Eat good quality food. Know your TDEE and only target ~300 to ~500 calories less per day. When you eat too little, you actually slow your metabolism.1 -
maronesax1972 wrote: »4ajguthrie wrote: »I am not happy that my weight loss has mysteriously stopped since the Holidays. I WAS losing weight last even if I drank (too much) all the fall. Then I turned Turkey dry.... no more weight loss in 12 days lol.... my log is duly maintained and I weight even food like the butter and peanut butter. I started doing cross-country ski everyday, it might be related... At the same time my waist is better, so I have no doubt that it will return... in the meanwhile it sucks, though.
@saintor1
As a result of all the information that folks have kindly given me in this thread I am now focused on maintaining and refining my current food and drink strategy. My exercise will also get some refining. The scales are going to get a daily visit and the weight noted....no more!
If I have a bit of excess water in there or a bit of fat under my skin so be it for now. Prime focus is good quality and quantity of food, rest and exercise to build my strength and we wait on the changes that will come.
Good luck with all of the doctors, scientists and nutritionists giving you advice on this thread!
Agree. Eat good quality food. Know your TDEE and only target ~300 to ~500 calories less per day. When you eat too little, you actually slow your metabolism.
@maronesax1972
Thanks,
Andrew1
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