Why counting calories indefinitely perceived as bad thing?
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janejellyroll wrote: »OP, as a side note, if you feel like making a life with this guy means that you have to hide stuff like this, I think that's really unfortunate. My husband has to pay attention to things that are easy for me and vice versa. That's how (some) good partnerships work. The goal should be to extend grace to each other and celebrate the little differences that make us unique, not make you want to hide stuff about yourself.
I would second this. My husband comments sometimes that I am "so disciplined" but also recognises that my watching/counting calories means that he has a better sense of what he needs to cut out when he needs to shed a few pounds.
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We live in an unnatural environment, as far as food and physical activity are concerned. We did not evolve for an environment where food was so available, so hyperpalatable, so calorie dense, and getting it required so little physical activity.
So yeah, calorie counting is not the most "natural" way to live. But an unnatural food environment requires unnatural countermeasures.
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I have found "I need you to have my back on this" a very effective way to get support rather than eye rolling from my spouse. Not just for calorie counting/weighing food, either.
Happily married for 33 years.14 -
The second problem is that people see it as a nanny system. They do not want to feel that restriction. They feel more free when they can eat without logging. I had food freedom. It cost me all kinds of other freedom. I am not interested in food freedom anymore. But not everyone has travelled the extremes I have so even though I see logging as freeing, not everyone else will.
Agree with this 100%. For me, logging is freedom*. When I didn’t log, I had a lot more self-judgment about “good/bad” foods and felt like certain foods had to be eliminated. With logging, I see the whole picture. I don’t worry about whatever I’m eating because I’ve planned, it fits my goals, and I can just enjoy it without some nebulous worry that everything will be derailed.
*On rereading this it sounds kind of 1984, but I’m sticking with it.6 -
Don't assume other's perceptions are reality. Their distortions can lead to more mind warp. Take what you need from a bunch of different sources. There's safety in that.
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If it's not weird for people to photograph and post on social media their overly indulgent restaurant meals, then I have no second thoughts calorie counting my food.
@psychod787 I need more 'gym' friends - how to find them when gyms are locked down?7 -
Mithridites wrote: »If it's not weird for people to photograph and post on social media their overly indulgent restaurant meals, then I have no second thoughts calorie counting my food.
@psychod787 I need more 'gym' friends - how to find them when gyms are locked down?
It is weird for people to post their meals but I still won't give it a second thought calorie counting.
I am not sure why someone needs to even comment on the health and fitness process of another person. The calorie counting people accept but getting up super early in the morning still catches comments all the time. What difference does it make to you what time I get up? I am not better than you for getting up early, I am just different. If I had more discipline I could exercise later in the day without fear of talking myself out of it. I get up early so I do not have to be as disciplined not because I am more disciplined.3 -
Mithridites wrote: »If it's not weird for people to photograph and post on social media their overly indulgent restaurant meals, then I have no second thoughts calorie counting my food.
@psychod787 I need more 'gym' friends - how to find them when gyms are locked down?
It is weird for people to post their meals but I still won't give it a second thought calorie counting.
I am not sure why someone needs to even comment on the health and fitness process of another person. The calorie counting people accept but getting up super early in the morning still catches comments all the time. What difference does it make to you what time I get up? I am not better than you for getting up early, I am just different. If I had more discipline I could exercise later in the day without fear of talking myself out of it. I get up early so I do not have to be as disciplined not because I am more disciplined.
That is a beautiful way to put it.
Sure beats the "I like getting up early and working out, makes a nice start to the day, and sure is better than working out later like all you lazy-a** people do."
For some odd reason the latter comes off wrong.
Oh, I almost got inspired couple weeks ago to get up early after missing my evening workout due to errand timing, sadly that was about 1:30 am and easily talked myself out of it.3 -
I track with the end goal of eventually not needing to.
Not good or bad.
Do you...0 -
Mithridites wrote: »If it's not weird for people to photograph and post on social media their overly indulgent restaurant meals, then I have no second thoughts calorie counting my food.
@psychod787 I need more 'gym' friends - how to find them when gyms are locked down?
It is weird for people to post their meals but I still won't give it a second thought calorie counting.
I am not sure why someone needs to even comment on the health and fitness process of another person. The calorie counting people accept but getting up super early in the morning still catches comments all the time. What difference does it make to you what time I get up? I am not better than you for getting up early, I am just different. If I had more discipline I could exercise later in the day without fear of talking myself out of it. I get up early so I do not have to be as disciplined not because I am more disciplined.
Some people routinely question the decency or rationality of people with different habits or tastes than themselves. It's bizarre to me.
I'm a long-term night owl. I can't begin to count how many times I've been asked "what do you dooooo in the middle of the night"? The answer is stuff like read books, fold laundry, work out, or whatever else the heck they do in the morning while I'm still happily sleeping. Do they suspect I'm sacrificing goats in my basement?!?
It would surprise me if the reactions, at the margin, were different when it comes to differences in dietary patterns, workout choices, methods of weight management, or pretty much any other area where people vary in their preferences or choices.5 -
Mithridites wrote: »If it's not weird for people to photograph and post on social media their overly indulgent restaurant meals, then I have no second thoughts calorie counting my food.
@psychod787 I need more 'gym' friends - how to find them when gyms are locked down?
It is weird for people to post their meals but I still won't give it a second thought calorie counting.
I am not sure why someone needs to even comment on the health and fitness process of another person. The calorie counting people accept but getting up super early in the morning still catches comments all the time. What difference does it make to you what time I get up? I am not better than you for getting up early, I am just different. If I had more discipline I could exercise later in the day without fear of talking myself out of it. I get up early so I do not have to be as disciplined not because I am more disciplined.
That is a beautiful way to put it.
Sure beats the "I like getting up early and working out, makes a nice start to the day, and sure is better than working out later like all you lazy-a** people do."
For some odd reason the latter comes off wrong.
Oh, I almost got inspired couple weeks ago to get up early after missing my evening workout due to errand timing, sadly that was about 1:30 am and easily talked myself out of it.
I have found that for me I will enjoy exercise and active pursuits more if I clear what I consider the minimums each morning. Once the requirement is done the rest is gravy. If I do not get the morning stuff out of the way then I feel like it hovers over me all day. I feel it draining me without even doing the work.
It is a better start do the day for me because I get an early "win" for my goals and the relief of it being done. But that is mental. I suppose it is better start physically too but that is not really my top priority.
I count calories because it is the easiest way for me to control intake with maximum level of confidence. I get up early because it is the easiest way for me to maintain my fitness habits.
Going a harder way to prove I am disciplined is a surefire way to deplete my discipline. Even making it as easy as possible is a test of discipline some days. I embrace easy.
I currently have zero interest in trying intuitive eating. I see no advantage in proving I can do it. I will rest easier not even trying. That may change in 5 years or it may not. I am committed to 5 years though. Then future me can take it from there.5 -
Mithridites wrote: »If it's not weird for people to photograph and post on social media their overly indulgent restaurant meals, then I have no second thoughts calorie counting my food.
@psychod787 I need more 'gym' friends - how to find them when gyms are locked down?
It is weird for people to post their meals but I still won't give it a second thought calorie counting.
I am not sure why someone needs to even comment on the health and fitness process of another person. The calorie counting people accept but getting up super early in the morning still catches comments all the time. What difference does it make to you what time I get up? I am not better than you for getting up early, I am just different. If I had more discipline I could exercise later in the day without fear of talking myself out of it. I get up early so I do not have to be as disciplined not because I am more disciplined.
Some people routinely question the decency or rationality of people with different habits or tastes than themselves. It's bizarre to me.
I'm a long-term night owl. I can't begin to count how many times I've been asked "what do you dooooo in the middle of the night"? The answer is stuff like read books, fold laundry, work out, or whatever else the heck they do in the morning while I'm still happily sleeping. Do they suspect I'm sacrificing goats in my basement?!?
It would surprise me if the reactions, at the margin, were different when it comes to differences in dietary patterns, workout choices, methods of weight management, or pretty much any other area where people vary in their preferences or choices.
'nother night owl here, too. I routinely start my Christmas baking at around 10 pm at night and finish up around 2 am. I've been known to be vacuuming and mopping my house at midnight, and once, I even started spring cleaning around 1 AM.
I'm just starting to really sleep well around 5 AM, which is why I despise when I have to get up at that time. That is one benefit of the forced work from home - I can stay in bed to at least 6:30 and sometimes 7 AM because the commute time is gone!
As for intuitive eating, well, intuitive eating got me where I was. Even after 3+ years of calorie counting and portion control, I know I cannot eyeball a proper serving size of anything. I also know that brain hunger is one of my biggest enemies and I need every weapon I can get my hands on to hold him at bay. Calorie counting helps - at the very least, I have a general idea of where I am and when I find myself in the red, the warning whistle goes off; without logging and a food scale, I would easily exceed maintenance every day and then some. So if logging every day is what it takes to keep from regaining all the weight again, then I'll log.
Besides, I'm already considered a weird duck, so what's one more thing? lol6 -
I can't help to feel that people might find me weird for constantly track and might have to track calories behind his back if we do move in together. N
Calorie counting can be a sign of an eating disorder. So I think a partner keeping a sort of vague eye open to that is fair enough, but once it becomes clear that you don't have an eating disorder..this is just your way of maintaining a healthy weight. It's no one's business and you should absolutely not feel you need to hide any aspect of your personality or your general habits.
"No Bob, this is what makes me feel good and this is what makes me happy" should be all you need to say on the subject. Ever.
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Dunegirl15 wrote: »
The second problem is that people see it as a nanny system. They do not want to feel that restriction. They feel more free when they can eat without logging. I had food freedom. It cost me all kinds of other freedom. I am not interested in food freedom anymore. But not everyone has travelled the extremes I have so even though I see logging as freeing, not everyone else will.
Agree with this 100%. For me, logging is freedom.
There is an old monastic wisdom that freedom can only be known within the context of discipline. Some may think freedom is indulging every whim, but then we become slaves to urges, unable to make & act on choices. Choices fall off the table. It's only self mastery through discipline that keeps all the choices within reach.
The desert fathers/mothers described the spiritual domain, e.g. will you choose the compassionate action and whether you have the fortitude to act on that choice depends on a regular practice of considering others (vs. only thinking selfishly). But the wisdom applies easily to the physical domain. Do I want to run a 10k with a friend this Saturday? Well, if I don't have a daily running discipline, that may not be an option for me. Do I want the marshmallow now or two later? If I'm a slave to my urges, I don't really have the freedom to choose.
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FutureFit2020 wrote: »
I can't help to feel that people might find me weird for constantly track and might have to track calories behind his back if we do move in together. N
Calorie counting can be a sign of an eating disorder. So I think a partner keeping a sort of vague eye open to that is fair enough, but once it becomes clear that you don't have an eating disorder..this is just your way of maintaining a healthy weight. It's no one's business and you should absolutely not feel you need to hide any aspect of your personality or your general habits.
"No Bob, this is what makes me feel good and this is what makes me happy" should be all you need to say on the subject. Ever.
Really? It seems to me that a sign of an eating disorder would be food anxiety and/or compulsive behavior. If someone is calorie counting my first thought is that they want to take better care of themselves. I think watching them for an eating disorder is far-fetched without other signs.6 -
I have been openly and publicly mocked for being huge. I have had a surprise office "intervention" for my weight. That was fun. They should be glad I didn't sue.
So, yeah, calorie counting for me!13 -
At the end of the day you have to make yourself happy. If someone else thinks that's weird that's not your problem, that's their problem...4 -
There are people that are going to judge and question the things you do no matter what.
Do what you need to do and ignore the rest.3 -
I think people losing only a little weight might not see the point as its inconvenient. When I fully lose all 38 pounds you better believe I'll be counting for a long time to maintain. No chance I'll undo the hard work!4
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I rely on the kitchen scale a lot. It's so much easier for making (and serving!) big meals to a big family than measuring food any other way. And baking -- I'll never go back! And scaling meals up or down. The list goes on.
After years of scale use, DH has recently adopted the habit. He I guess is in the minority who have lost weight in the pandemic. On purpose. DD home from college for an extended time (Thanksgiving-Christmas covid break) was alarmed at his weight loss and food habits. She kind of did an intervention with me, observing the line between disciplined and obsessive could be a blurry one and maybe we were crossing it. She asked if we would ever consider discussing with a therapist. I responded we would consider seeing a therapist but our eating habits would probably not make the top 10 things to work on.
DH's BMI is in the middle of "normal" range, actually a tad closer to overweight than underweight. My BMI is on the lower end of normal, but it has been unchanged for decades. I have no idea if DH will go back to old habits when our life returns to pre-pandemic normal, but I do know that for me, weighing and counting works. It's so, so worth it to me to maintain my weight, and weighing/counting is the easiest way to maintain I have ever found by far (after lots of trial and error and more trial). If I found an easier way **that works**, I would definitely do that instead.
This is all to say I kind of identify with you, OP. I get how obsessive vs. disciplined can be a blurred line, even to those who are closest to us. My truth is I have long had disordered thinking around food, and maybe I always will. My current state may not qualify as "normal," but it is the least disordered in my long journey so far. Work in progress. So about the BF, I would not hide anything. Super bad habit (speaks from experience) and as Stargazer says, red flag. Instead, how would it feel to you to cop to having a weight struggle? And that you have tried different strategies and this is what is most effective for now? Most of all, you don't have to pretend to be "normal" or anything else you are not. We all have our idiosyncrasies. Embrace yours!5 -
I've said it elsewhere but I'll share it here again.
I expect I'll need to keep using this app or some other means of counting calories basically forever. I've used this app on and off over the past 10 years, and when I stop using it, I start gaining weight again. Would it be nice if, once I reach GW (whatever that turns out to be), my brain magically learns what "enough" food looks like and I can eat that much and stop? Heck yeah it would, that would be awesome. But I feel like if that's a thing my brain were capable of, I would never have gotten to be as heavy as I have been, and am. Fortunately or unfortunately, when the scale finally shows a number I'm happy with, I will still need to eat food and it will still have calories, so I won't be "done" thinking about that, but I do want to be "done" riding the rollercoaster of weight loss and regain. So I'll need to pivot from one set of goals (loss) to another (maintenance).
I think there is something to be said about discipline vs obsession as @ahoy_m8 noted, but the line for me comes when I start worrying about individual calories - cutting a Pop Tart in precisely two identical halves and weighing them, transferring crumbs back and forth to get to exactly X grams so that it's only X calories so I stay in budget. Or making value judgments about myself based on calories I do or don't consume or burn, letting the number in my MFP widget dictate how I feel about myself. That's obsession, that's disorder, I'm not going back to that.5 -
goal06082021 wrote: »I've said it elsewhere but I'll share it here again.
I expect I'll need to keep using this app or some other means of counting calories basically forever. I've used this app on and off over the past 10 years, and when I stop using it, I start gaining weight again. Would it be nice if, once I reach GW (whatever that turns out to be), my brain magically learns what "enough" food looks like and I can eat that much and stop? Heck yeah it would, that would be awesome. But I feel like if that's a thing my brain were capable of, I would never have gotten to be as heavy as I have been, and am. Fortunately or unfortunately, when the scale finally shows a number I'm happy with, I will still need to eat food and it will still have calories, so I won't be "done" thinking about that, but I do want to be "done" riding the rollercoaster of weight loss and regain. So I'll need to pivot from one set of goals (loss) to another (maintenance).
I think there is something to be said about discipline vs obsession as @ahoy_m8 noted, but the line for me comes when I start worrying about individual calories - cutting a Pop Tart in precisely two identical halves and weighing them, transferring crumbs back and forth to get to exactly X grams so that it's only X calories so I stay in budget. Or making value judgments about myself based on calories I do or don't consume or burn, letting the number in my MFP widget dictate how I feel about myself. That's obsession, that's disorder, I'm not going back to that.
Kind of like weighing the spoon used to dish food out that will be licked, but then not weighing the plate afterwards that was not licked clean.
I've done another method to the poptart method you mentioned - just figured between 2 days I'm eating the whole serving - so what applies to each day not a big deal in the scheme of things. One day will have a partial serving if there was a big difference to total weight and servings per package. Like bread rolls on 3 days. I'll write on the bag the total weight to use on the last day.2 -
I will count forever. I did go a little overboard for a while. I wanted to bring my food scale to restaurants. I was told I would look like a drug dealer, pulling my scale from my purse.3
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A subset of calorie counters have EDs but not all of us!
I managed to develop anorexia in my teens without ever counting calories. I consider myself ED free for decades and I count calories kind of lazily these days.
As long as I feel ok and not obsessed or unhappy or driven or whatever I’m gonna carry on. No hard and fast rules about this stuff for me4 -
I agree though, for some reason people think it is an obsessive behavior and does come with some negative connotations. I don't feel this way, but others certainly do.
When I wanted to lose weight, and I counted religiously directly in front of coworkers, family, and friends. The accountability far outweighed any thought of being judged.
To follow up on some other comments....I am conscious of calories but do not log religiously anymore. I have a staple of foods/meals and meal timing that works for me without having to overthink things. This took a few months to figure out.
There are times daily where I need to make decision in real time and knowing about calories and how many I need to maintain or lose has been beneficial. I have a reward ritual that when I leave the gym I grab an ice cream from McDonalds. The shamrock shake caught my eye and after ordering it I found out it was almost 700 calories (their regular cone is less than 300cals). I know consuming it would put me way over my calorie limit so I had 1/3 or it and put the rest in the freezer for today or the next time I want some minty glory!
Counting calories made me aware of what I was eating, and has taught me to make better choices and substitute, avoid or limit where possible. I realize this is not for everyone, especially if they struggle with accountability or self control. What my total for yesterday was, I do not know but I am certain it didn't hurt my progress and required very little extra thought and/or misery in my life.3 -
I just read through this thread and I find myself thinking: in every area of my life where I have wanted to improve, I have done some kind of tracking:
- I began budgeting when I needed to learn about money
- I kept a booklist when I wanted to get more intentional about my reading
- I started a recipe file when I wanted to get better at cooking
- I have checklists for chores to make sure my house is in order
- I have a prayer journal for my spiritual health
...why wouldn't I, if I wanted to get more serious about nutrition and eating, start writing it down?12 -
I weigh myself every day right now because I'm at the upper limit of what I want to weigh, and what I think is healthy. I usually don't weigh or count calories, so when I go back to a more active lifestyle I'll probably just stick to trying to eat healthy. I do want to keep the meal planning habits I've picked up, though!1
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I was thinking about this, and how tracking isn’t really a burden to me, and I realized something. It’s easier for me to track now than it would have been when I was fat because I eat differently. Not just less, but differently.
For example, previously when I went to a food bar I would have some of everything and maybe a second or third plate. Now, I am rough estimating calories portion sizes in my head while filling my plate. About three hundred calories of protein, about 45 g carbs, and so on. I have to do this to a certain extent to be healthy because I am a diabetic, so there are hard limits on the amount of carbs I can eat at one sitting if I want to keep my blood glucose under control. But the end result is that I don’t eat as much food, as many different foods per meal, and what I do eat I can pretty much remember because I decided to eat it for a reason. And I have gotten pretty good at keeping a running tally in my head. I can swap things in and out of my usual 500 calorie breakfast and end up within 30 calories every time. If I want an extra three slices of bacon (my brand is 30 cal/slice), that’s about the same calories as a tablespoon of almond butter, or an egg with salsa on it, and so on.
Certain situations, such as eating out or going to a party with food, are hard to log at. But if you go into it like any other meal, knowing you have 800 calories you plan to eat on this occasion for example, it’s easier to remember what you ate and log it later, as opposed to just eating until you feel stuffed and then trying to remember all the different things. And if you can’t remember exact foods you still know it was about 800 calories.
Of course, it takes a while to learn how to estimate calories in complicated foods, particularly when you don’t know what the ingredients are. But you get more of a feel for this as you go along too... yeah, that steak was cooked in butter, this sauce is really rich, these “steamed” vegetables at the steakhouse are mysteriously dripping oil.8
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