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Dopamine Fasting

Ddsb11
Ddsb11 Posts: 607 Member
edited February 2021 in Debate Club
I came across an article written about this guy’s experience with Dopamine Fasting, a term I had never heard before. It’s a pretty straightforward explanation of what he does to achieve results. It would be interesting to apply it in a way that would be ideal for each individual person, and I’m contemplating what that might look like for me, for the sake of curiosity. I’ve basically been eating 1-2 meals for 5 years, which would make transitioning into this lifestyle a little more seamless, but it still sounds incredibly difficult. I guess it’s just a matter of do it or don’t, just don’t think about it. Unfortunately that’s easier said than done.

Anyway, I thought I’d post the article with a link. I wish it was a little more detail oriented and data driven, but that’s something anyone could do if they were so inclined.

Article below:

What is dopamine?

Dopamine is a neurotransmitter linked to motivation. When we experience pleasure, our neurons release dopamine. This is how neuro-associative conditioning happens: we associate pleasure with that experience. And we want this experience more in the future.


Dopamine fasting benefits

Here’s the theory behind dopamine fasting. Our bodies release too much dopamine today. This overstimulation comes from social media, technology, sex, food, and so on. And it causes symptoms such as addiction, lack of motivation, and brain fog. Dopamine fasting is about reducing the amount of stimulation, hence the amount of dopamine. And when we do so, it helps reduce all these bad symptoms.

The idea is that by getting less dopamine, we increase the amount of dopamine receptors. And then, we need less stimulation to feel pleasure. Even simple activities start to feel great.

Mild dopamine fasting: things I avoid

Every day, I do a mild version of dopamine fasting. The first part is reducing or eliminating pleasurable activities:

No sleeping in. Waking up and deciding to stay in bed feels great. But after you start a day with this huge stimulation, the entire day is a challenge. It’s like you experience the peak state in the morning. And then everything during the day feels boring in comparison to it. It seems boring. But I don’t sleep in. Yeah, I lose that huge stimulation. But then the rest of the day isn’t boring anymore. It’s exciting.

No distractions

Distractions feel great, especially when tackling difficult tasks. It’s a pleasurable escape from your challenges. But when you go back to work, it feels boring. So, I stopped all distractions. And I feel better about my work now. That’s because my level of pleasure is stable. I don’t use distractions to create those peaks that make it difficult to return to work. I write down distractive thoughts so that I can return to them later, e.g., in the evening. And I noticed that with time, my concentration got better

No food until dinner

I’ve been eating one meal a day (OMAD) for the last four months. I love my OMAD results so far. I don’t have breakfast or lunch—just dinner. Here’s why it works so well for me. When I used to eat breakfast or lunch, I’d feel great after them. That was a spike of dopamine. But then, I’d return to what I was doing and it would feel boring. So, now I skip those two meals. And my mood is a flatline.
There are no peaks caused by meals. And no troughs caused by returning to less pleasurable activities such as work. What I also like is that having one big dinner after 22 hours of fasting feels fantastic.

Meditation

Meditation is key while on a dopamine fast:
1. It helps me reflect on why I’m fasting in the first place. It’s an opportunity to change unwanted behaviors.
2. After meditating long enough, I also started to feel pleasure from meditation. As a result, I crave fancy pleasurable activities less.

Journaling

Journaling is another way to reflect during dopamine fasting. I write down everything that I want to change in my life. For example, when I wanted to break food addiction, I journaled about how hungry I felt. It made me more aware of my addiction, which was a major step toward beating it.

Yoga

Yoga is a perfect combination of exercise and mindfulness practice:
1. Reflection makes us aware of our shortcomings.
2. It’s also a source of pleasure and accomplishment.
I usually do 40 minutes of yoga and then take a contrast shower.
And I always feel great after that.

Mild dopamine fasting: weekends and vacations

Now moving along to rewarding yourself for dopamine fasting. It’s important to do so, or else fasting will feel too painful and you won’t last long.

Weekdays: in the evening

I allow myself some dopamine-releasing activities in the evening on weekdays. For example, I have my only meal for that day while listening to an audiobook. These activities are as simple as possible to keep my dopamine low during the working week.

Sundays and vacations

On Sundays and vacations, I relax my dopamine fasting routine even further:
1. I listen to podcasts.
2. I watch soccer and movies.
Again, I do these things in the evening—after completing important tasks for the day. For example, I snowboard in the morning and help my son with his soccer training in the afternoon. Only after that, I allow myself to go to a sauna, have a meal, and watch a soccer game with my son.


Extreme dopamine fasting

Now, in addition to my daily dopamine fasting routine, I also do extreme fasting on Saturdays.
* I do intermittent fasting: no food for 40+ hours.
* I meditate and journal more.
* I don’t read or watch any content.
Travel makes 100% dopamine fasting easier because you’re in a good mood.

Benefit 1: Better concentration

I concentrate better and think more clearly with dopamine fasting. Distractions such as thoughts of pleasurable activities lose their grip on me. When I used to allow myself to get distracted, I couldn’t accomplish anything. But now that I concentrate better, I gain momentum and go into flow.

Benefit 2: More motivation

With dopamine fasting, I find it easier to do what I need to do. It’s like it positively rechannels my motivation. Say, previously, 50% of my motivation went into wanting pleasurable activities. And the other 50% went into wanting to accomplish high-priority tasks. But after dopamine fasting, it’s like 30% vs 70%, respectively.

Benefit 3: Enjoying pleasurable activities more

Dopamine fasting relies on a powerful life principle: the more we have, the less we appreciate.

That’s when I reap this benefit of dopamine fasting

With dopamine fasting, I artificially re-create that feeling of music scarcity.
1. When I spend a few days without music today, it feels better when I listen to it.
2. I also postpone listening to new albums as long as possible so that I look forward to them more.

Other examples

The same goes for food: eating one meal a day makes me appreciate it more.
Another example is spending time with my loved ones: I live in a different country now and miss them. And when I go to see them every couple of months, I appreciate our relationships more.


Benefit 4: Hedonic adaptation

Dopamine fasting makes hedonic adaptation possible. It’s all about finding pleasure in something less pleasurable than what we used to have. We can feel the same level of happiness regardless of our circumstances. We adjust to those circumstances, good or bad, and feel just as happy or sad as we did before.

My example of tweaking taste buds. For example, I used to have a sweet tooth and wanted to stop the addiction.

First, I replaced sweets with cheese sandwiches. And then I replaced cheese sandwiches with broccoli. Now that I rewired my taste receptors, broccoli tastes as good as sweets to me. I watched a video about binge eating by an addiction coach Cali Estes recently. She wondered why people would overeat sweets but not broccoli.
It made me smile because if I’m going to binge eat these days, it would be on broccoli!

Hedonic adaptation works in other areas as well

Likewise, dopamine fasting helps me rewire myself to find joy in less fancy things in other areas.
Examples include:
1. Meditation instead of watching TV.
2. Cooking my food instead of going to a restaurant.
3. Reading an inspirational book instead of watching a TV show.

Benefit 5: Exercising willpower

The next benefit of dopamine fasting is strengthening willpower.

Exercising willpower helps increase it

I deny myself of many things on a dopamine fasting day. It’s difficult and requires willpower. It’s like building muscle with exercise: the more I fast, the stronger my willpower is.

Exercising willpower brings pleasure

Tony Robbins said: We can retrain our minds to feel the pleasure of discipline. That’s exactly how I feel by exercising the willpower required for dopamine fasting:
1. I feel the pleasure of being in control.
2. I also feel a sense of accomplishment.
It does take time to get to that level but it’s worth it.

https://romanmironov.com/blog/dopamine-fasting-benefits/




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Replies

  • Ddsb11
    Ddsb11 Posts: 607 Member
    edited February 2021
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    IMO, you just CHANGE your HABITS for dopamine rush. For me it's exercise, dance, playing video games (hard to eat for me when my hands are on the controller for a long time).
    Habitual behavior takes time to change. If the change is to dramatic, it's harder to stick to. IMO life is to short to NOT ENJOY what you like to eat, do, etc. You just have to have the mind set that there are consequences for bad behavior or if you get out of control.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

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    Can I pick your brain about this? I’m trying to look at all angles here because I honestly don’t know what I think yet.

    Okay, so the 5 benefits he’s listed:

    Benefit 1: Better concentration
    Benefit 2: More motivation
    Benefit 3: Enjoying pleasurable activities more
    Benefit 4: Hedonic adaptation
    Benefit 5: Exercising willpower

    Are you basically saying that you don’t need to dopamine fast to achieve these results? I follow what you mean about life being too short not to enjoy what you eat, do, etc. But what if what he’s saying does increase that enjoyment? What if, as he said, “we need less stimulation to feel pleasure. Even simple activities start to feel great.”

    I do believe if someone is perfectly happy and content with their routine, and are receiving adequate pleasure responses from their daily life, then this wouldn’t be needed. If it’s not broke... But what if something is broke? Is this the way (to a certain extent), just altered in a way to meet your specific needs?
  • Ddsb11
    Ddsb11 Posts: 607 Member
    edited February 2021
    ythannah wrote: »
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    No sleeping in. Waking up and deciding to stay in bed feels great. But after you start a day with this huge stimulation, the entire day is a challenge. It’s like you experience the peak state in the morning. And then everything during the day feels boring in comparison to it. It seems boring. But I don’t sleep in. Yeah, I lose that huge stimulation. But then the rest of the day isn’t boring anymore. It’s exciting.

    I have never experienced this "boredom" after sleeping in, nor would I ever call any morning a peak state for me. Sleeping in isn't a dopamine rush for me, it simply rights the balance of sleep deprivation from the week.

    I've never been able to meditate and I loathe yoga. All of this sounds like some kind of nasty exercise in penance to me. And I've never had any difficulty in finding joy in simple, mundane things.

    Right, how is sleeping in stimulating? Hey, he was just telling his story, what can you do? 🙂 For me, I practice Buddhism, and mediation is essential, so this theory isn’t that much of a stretch for me. It parallels in a lot of ways actually. I’ve always made things deeper than they probably need to be, so I need to keep things simple.

    I do think if this feels like a penance, then what good could come from forcing it? If you’re happy, no need to change what’s working.
  • Ddsb11
    Ddsb11 Posts: 607 Member
    edited February 2021
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    I dunno. I'm not a neuroscience expert, but it's something I've had a layperson's interest in for some years, and have read a good bit about. The article sounds like speculative wishful thinking, self-fulfilling prophecy, etc.

    Personally, I think someone could get some of those benefits with some of those *practices* (or other relevant habitual behaviors), but that attributing it to dopamine response is probably pseudo-scientific new-age woo. According to the "About" section of the web site you linked, this guy is "life coach" trained via a center that Tony Robbins is involved with. That doesn't increase my confidence in its scientific foundation.

    That said, things like meditation, journaling, yoga, mindfulness, focus . . . sure, those can have benefits.

    These are not the only mainstream sources that have some skepticism, but it's some examples:

    https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/dopamine-fasting-misunderstanding-science-spawns-a-maladaptive-fad-2020022618917.

    https://www.livescience.com/is-there-science-behind-dopamine-fasting-trend.html

    Even the guy (Sepah) who originated the concept seems to be distancing himself quite strongly from some of the current hype around the term.

    Maybe that’s what they’re missing- the why. Doing it for dopamine control doesn’t seem like a big enough reason to change your entire life, especially considering there might be holes in that theory. But, for a deeper philosophical purpose, this I get. I would still love to know the science though, and anyone’s personal insight.

    ETA- Thanks for the links. Down the rabbit hole I go 🙈
  • Ddsb11
    Ddsb11 Posts: 607 Member
    edited February 2021
    If you’re interested, from the Harvard article-

    What Sepah intended with his dopamine fast was a method, based on cognitive behavioral therapy, by which we can become less dominated by the unhealthy stimuli — the texts, the notifications, the beeps, the rings — that accompany living in a modern, technology-centric society. Instead of automatically responding to these reward-inducing cues, which provide us with an immediate but short-lived charge, we ought to allow our brains to take breaks and reset from this potentially addictive bombardment. The idea is that by allowing ourselves to feel lonely or bored, or to find pleasures in doing simpler and more natural activities, we will regain control over our lives and be better able to address compulsive behaviors that may be interfering with our happiness.

    Sepah recommends that we start a fast in a way that is minimally disruptive to our lifestyles. For example, we could practice dopamine fasting from one to four hours at the end of the day (depending on work and family demands), for one weekend day (spend it outside on a Saturday or Sunday), one weekend per quarter (go on a local trip), and one week per year (go on vacation).

    “Dopamine is one of the body’s neurotransmitters, and is involved in our body’s system for reward, motivation, learning, and pleasure. While dopamine does rise in response to rewards or pleasurable activities, it doesn’t actually decrease when you avoid overstimulating activities, so a dopamine “fast” doesn’t actually lower your dopamine levels.”

    So basically, take a break from stimulation, to “regain control over our lives and be better able to address compulsive behaviors that may be interfering with our happiness.”
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,453 Member
    Ddsb11 wrote: »
    If you’re interested, from the Harvard article-

    What Sepah intended with his dopamine fast was a method, based on cognitive behavioral therapy, by which we can become less dominated by the unhealthy stimuli — the texts, the notifications, the beeps, the rings — that accompany living in a modern, technology-centric society. Instead of automatically responding to these reward-inducing cues, which provide us with an immediate but short-lived charge, we ought to allow our brains to take breaks and reset from this potentially addictive bombardment. The idea is that by allowing ourselves to feel lonely or bored, or to find pleasures in doing simpler and more natural activities, we will regain control over our lives and be better able to address compulsive behaviors that may be interfering with our happiness.

    Sepah recommends that we start a fast in a way that is minimally disruptive to our lifestyles. For example, we could practice dopamine fasting from one to four hours at the end of the day (depending on work and family demands), for one weekend day (spend it outside on a Saturday or Sunday), one weekend per quarter (go on a local trip), and one week per year (go on vacation).

    “Dopamine is one of the body’s neurotransmitters, and is involved in our body’s system for reward, motivation, learning, and pleasure. While dopamine does rise in response to rewards or pleasurable activities, it doesn’t actually decrease when you avoid overstimulating activities, so a dopamine “fast” doesn’t actually lower your dopamine levels.”

    So basically, take a break from stimulation, to “regain control over our lives and be better able to address compulsive behaviors that may be interfering with our happiness.”
    Personally I think that a lot of people just don't know how to really focus.
    Here's my take on some cool possible pseudo science stuff: growing up I didn't have as much TV availability, cell phone, social media, etc. so when a task at hand was being done, the focus was on that task itself. Nowadays people are trying to do 2 or 3 things at the same time. I watch kids (I'm a yard duty at school) and they'll start talking about something, then look at their phone and respond to a text, then try to continue conversation. Our brain ISN'T a multi tasker. So with all these different things at one time that people are trying to do, it taxes the brain's energy use. Given that, the brain needs fuel to work like any other cells, CARB CRAVINGS might be the reason for this. I'm not making this up. I actually heard it on a radio show on my way to work.

    https://qz.com/722661/neuroscientists-say-multitasking-literally-drains-the-energy-reserves-of-your-brain/

    https://www.thedailymeal.com/healthy-eating/carb-cravings-are-your-brain-s-fault-study-finds/012218

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

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  • Avidkeo
    Avidkeo Posts: 3,190 Member
    Haven't read the replies
    My thoughts, life is meant to be fun! I can see things like reducing phone time, media, TV and stuff like that. And sure eating less food that trigger dopamine.

    But what's the point?

    It sounds like toi much like inducing stress to make pleasurable things more pleasurable?
  • Ddsb11
    Ddsb11 Posts: 607 Member
    edited February 2021
    GummiMundi wrote: »
    Here's what I don't understand: the article starts by saying that dopamine is released when we do something that brings us pleasure. And then it lists a number of activities that allegedly gives us that dopamine release, and that we ought to stop doing. Those activities are to be replaced by new ones (meditation instead of TV, broccoli instead of sweets, etc.), which we're supposed to feel pleasure from. But won't that "new" pleasure bring a dopamine release as well? So what's the difference?

    I get the idea of switching "harmful" habits for "healthy" ones - even though that's highly personal - but I don't understand this approach, especially if you're going to get a dopamine release either way.

    I wondered the same thing. I suppose the difference would be replacing them with things that will improve your health and well being, not break it down. I think clarity on that would have been helpful.
  • MarttaHP
    MarttaHP Posts: 68 Member
    GummiMundi wrote: »
    Here's what I don't understand: the article starts by saying that dopamine is released when we do something that brings us pleasure. And then it lists a number of activities that allegedly gives us that dopamine release, and that we ought to stop doing. Those activities are to be replaced by new ones (meditation instead of TV, broccoli instead of sweets, etc.), which we're supposed to feel pleasure from. But won't that "new" pleasure bring a dopamine release as well? So what's the difference?

    I get the idea of switching "harmful" habits for "healthy" ones - even though that's highly personal - but I don't understand this approach, especially if you're going to get a dopamine release either way.

    These were my thoughts exactly. The author seems to be assigning a moral value to some activities over others; reading a book or meditating is better than watching TV, eating at home is better than eating out. The latter might be true I guess if your finances are tight, but I think there's a lot of great TV content that I get a lot out of personally and can't think is a worse use for my time than reading, for example.

    The Harvard Health article linked by AnnPT77 specifically lists a bunch of actually harmful activities that the original creator of the dopamine fast concept says it might help curb, quote: "dopamine fasting can be used to help control any behaviors that are causing you distress or negatively affecting your life". Watching TV probably isn't a huge negative influence in most people's lives.

    As an aside, I find it kind of sad that the author mentions snowboarding and coaching his son as some activities he has to get over and done with, i.e. something he apparently doesn't derive pleasure from, before engaging in something more fun in the evening. Why snowboard as an exercise if you don't enjoy it? And wouldn't most people enjoy spending time with their children?
  • Ddsb11
    Ddsb11 Posts: 607 Member
    edited February 2021
    MarttaHP wrote: »
    GummiMundi wrote: »
    Here's what I don't understand: the article starts by saying that dopamine is released when we do something that brings us pleasure. And then it lists a number of activities that allegedly gives us that dopamine release, and that we ought to stop doing. Those activities are to be replaced by new ones (meditation instead of TV, broccoli instead of sweets, etc.), which we're supposed to feel pleasure from. But won't that "new" pleasure bring a dopamine release as well? So what's the difference?

    I get the idea of switching "harmful" habits for "healthy" ones - even though that's highly personal - but I don't understand this approach, especially if you're going to get a dopamine release either way.

    These were my thoughts exactly. The author seems to be assigning a moral value to some activities over others; reading a book or meditating is better than watching TV, eating at home is better than eating out. The latter might be true I guess if your finances are tight, but I think there's a lot of great TV content that I get a lot out of personally and can't think is a worse use for my time than reading, for example.

    The Harvard Health article linked by AnnPT77 specifically lists a bunch of actually harmful activities that the original creator of the dopamine fast concept says it might help curb, quote: "dopamine fasting can be used to help control any behaviors that are causing you distress or negatively affecting your life". Watching TV probably isn't a huge negative influence in most people's lives.

    As an aside, I find it kind of sad that the author mentions snowboarding and coaching his son as some activities he has to get over and done with, i.e. something he apparently doesn't derive pleasure from, before engaging in something more fun in the evening. Why snowboard as an exercise if you don't enjoy it? And wouldn't most people enjoy spending time with their children?

    This guys routine wouldn’t be for me, it’s quite structured. But, in bold, I don’t think that’s what he meant (I could be wrong). I think he is saying he is prioritizing it, as something that’s important and needs to be done, before doing low priority options. It did come off that way though. I think he genuinely means well, but he’s not the best writer. I took his blog of his daily life with a grain of salt, it was his method to reducing the noise and being more mindful.
  • Ddsb11
    Ddsb11 Posts: 607 Member
    edited February 2021
    Reading this I'm reminded of something my Italian husband says---this is coming from "l'officio affare semplici" (the office of complicating simple things). This is exactly what this guy is suggesting. Go somewhere in the wilds for a week or two, leaving behind all your "things" and get in touch with the inner you. That's what used to be recommended. Now it's all dressed up and complicated. Fact--if you take something away for awhile, it will be appreciated when given back.

    This. The more I read about the theory, it really seems like a trendy name slapped onto the philosophy of mindfulness, mixed with fast rules to break bad habits like escapism. He just Type A’d it. Which isn’t a bad thing if that’s the way your brain works. A lot of times guidelines/rules help us relax when we need to relax, and focus when we need to focus.

    "l'officio affare semplici", what a beautiful way of saying it.
  • Ddsb11
    Ddsb11 Posts: 607 Member
    edited February 2021
    There's a specific form of lifehacking that seems so aggressively macho in its attempts to rationalize preferences, complicate the relatively uncomplicated, and create feats of endurance out of otherwise unremarkable tasks.

    When I read stuff like this, part of me is like "More power to this guy for figuring out a way that works for him." But part of me questions it, like does this REALLY make him happier? Or is this just a desperate way to try to feel better about stuff he'd be doing anyway? It's hard to silence that voice in my head that is also saying "Dude, get over yourself."

    Most of us manage to cover our daily responsibilities without having to turn it into some kind of dopamine-regulation experiment. We just find a way of scrubbing the toilet AND catching up on our favorite television show and everything pretty much works out.

    (This isn't to say that some people do seem to struggle specifically with meeting their responsibilities and maybe some kind of plan or regulation may work for them in particular).

    (Note: when I say it's aggressively macho, it doesn't mean that only men do this or that all men do it. I just mean I tend to see more men playing in the "life hack" space and when they're doing things like going on 24 hour water fasts or attempting to cut off dopamine by limiting fun or doing things like inventing weird sleep schedules, it often comes across as an attempt to prove how tough or "above it all" they are. Women also do stupid things to demonstrate their commitment to norms of femininity, they just look different than this).

    Exactly my question too- does it make you happier? If so, how? Is there proof? I want to know! I do know if I villainize (is that even a word) something that’s normal, like eating carbs, or not meditating at exactly 10am every morning, that will only make life feel unbearable and joyless. I don’t think that’s where the author of this term (not the article) was trying to go, or at least I don’t believe so. But people are people and we can be masochistic sometimes and turn good advice into a tragic lifestyle.