Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
1980s definatly, and back..Why were people more fit, toned and healthy Looking?
Replies
-
There is most definitely still pressure for most people in the spotlight (movies, tv, models especially) to be thin--and not just "Normal" thin, underweight-thin. I'm still shocked when I watch movies or TV, especially with younger actresses, how thin they look. I'm 20.2 BMI, so smaller than the average American, but would probably be the character constantly criticizing her weight, or in the best-case scenario a "normal" representation of a woman.
The reason there is now the body acceptance movement was the backlash to the societal pressure for women to be thin to be viewed as attractive. I don't believe it originally was saying that women of all sizes are healthy, but can be beautiful. I am glad that I am now seeing more models who are of actual "normal" size (and not just really small or really big), but I will admit it did take my brain a bit of getting used to, as I think many of us are still programmed to believe that model thin=beautiful/desirable.
What I really think, though, is that we need to stop worrying about what other people look like and choose to do with their bodies (myself included) and worry about our own health.5 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »Back in the day, actors, actresses, models, etc were forced to work out and bein shape to get and keep their jobs.
Today, political correctness means that we have to celebrate fat people. You see, there are more fat people to sell to than fit people, and we would certainly not want to "hurt anyone's feelings" by putting someone healthy and fit out into the public eye. Fattie Mae might break down and eat all the donuts.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Oh yes, the days of forced anorexia to keep your job was much better! And long gone, too! Nowadays, you never see an underweight model, right? Amirite?
Are you really suggesting that there is no longer any pressure on actors, models, media personalities, etc, to be thin? Are you being serious when you say that "fat people" are now preferred in these professions?
Two words.
Kate
Upton
Very beautiful young lady. If you took a measure of her body fat content, she would be considered obese. Nothing whatsoever fit about her. And she is not the only one.
I am not saying there is anything wrong with that. Just that there is no longer the pressure to remain fit in order to be on TV or in a magazine. I believe that is the difference between now and the 80's as this post topic stated. Society, the media, the government, want to be sure not to hurt the feelings of anyone.
Call me shallow, but I don't want to see a 235#, 5'4" woman modeling a bikini in a magazine or advertisement, and I guarantee you I won't be inclined to buy that bikini if I do see it. But the other side DOES want to see it, because it makes them feel good about themselves, and industry is selling to that side because they grossly (no pun intended) outweigh (no pun intended) the fit side.
Well, maybe pun intended.
Disclaimer: that is my opinion, and I am fully aware that having an opinion does not necessarily make me right.
I had no idea who she was, so I googled her. Unless she's recently gained a lot of weight, there's no way that she could be considered obese.6 -
Motorsheen wrote: »I have absolutely nothing of value to contribute to this thread. (or much anywhere else.)
I was just looking for an excuse to post this gif.
It somehow makes sense here..... maybe.
.
My mom was super into Richard Simmons...
2 -
1
-
On what planet would Kate Upton be considered obese?
6 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »On what planet would Kate Upton be considered obese?
Planet Hollywood and Distorted Body Image, maybe ED.
Seriously she apparently gained some weight. She never made it NEAR an overweight BMI, much less an obese one.3 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »
Does "fit shaming" really exist anywhere except on social media?
No. It doesn't. I am surrounded by lots of extremely fit people despite my own fatness. And I have NEVER seen this phenomenon - where someone is fit (NOT too thin, like ALL models and most actors/actresses or on-air television news hosts are forced to be as a condition of employment, but a healthy weight) yet been shamed or even anything other than celebrated for it. OTOH, fat shaming remains ubiquitous no matter what media (or people) we're talking about.
My daughter is a documentary film maker. When she was first starting out, around 2010 or so, she did camera and producer work at both the NY and Milan fashion shows one year. She told me that you could literally see the individual vertebrae (complete with their curvature) in the backs of every single model. You could see the hunger in most of their eyes. She said that she was so horrified she literally wanted to scream at these women to please eat something before they collapsed. But, as a film maker working for someone else, she could do no more than just call me and cry over the fact what she referred to as "damned near concentration camp thin" was being celebrated by the movers and shakers of the world (and by us as consumers.)
Whether one is too thin or too fat, the unhealthy body and beauty standards imposed upon us by this western culture of ours will kill us all. Inside our souls, even if not literally in our bodies. Just my opinion. I am trying to lose weight to be healthy - not to meet some standard of healthy defined by others only in terms of BMI. And especially not European weight/height charts, which are grounded in bodies that have no badonkadonk. At almost 60, I'm damned proud of mine and have no intention of starving it away!
5 -
wunderkindking wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »On what planet would Kate Upton be considered obese?
Planet Hollywood and Distorted Body Image, maybe ED.
Seriously she apparently gained some weight. She never made it NEAR an overweight BMI, much less an obese one.
The same thing happened to both Tyra Banks and Rihanna. Both went from too-thin to pleasingly plump - and both were ripped apart for becoming fat. Both women have written about how that criticism affected them. Fortunately, both focused on their health and said F the haters.6 -
Answering the original question - yes, folks were thinner in the 70's and 80's. But all you have to do is look at a few differences in how people lived: (a) meals prepared by others -- fast food in particular -- were way smaller than they are now; today, a much bigger percentage of people's meals are prepared by others outside the home and we have become accustomed to those larger sizes as "normal" portions at the same time as folks are less physically active in the hours they aren't working; (b) children being expected to go outside to play and be active every day, or having PE at school every day, used to be the default, but that ended as folks started believing in the myth that children have to be constantly "achieving" or "preparing" or "competing" academically and the equally destructive myth that it is far more dangerous for children to be left to their own devices outside; (c) no 24 hour anything, so people both had less access to unhealthy things around the clock AND got more meaningful sleep - which of course is tied to exercise; and (d) the levels of stress and anxiety were far far less in most people than they are now, in which insecurity about everything from job to relationship is a virtual constant for many people and contributes to things like stress eating in a world where getting counseling or therapy to help manage stress and anxiety is completely dependent on having money or good-enough insurance. All of those things factor into the equation, IMO.1
-
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »Back in the day, actors, actresses, models, etc were forced to work out and bein shape to get and keep their jobs.
Today, political correctness means that we have to celebrate fat people. You see, there are more fat people to sell to than fit people, and we would certainly not want to "hurt anyone's feelings" by putting someone healthy and fit out into the public eye. Fattie Mae might break down and eat all the donuts.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Oh yes, the days of forced anorexia to keep your job was much better! And long gone, too! Nowadays, you never see an underweight model, right? Amirite?
Are you really suggesting that there is no longer any pressure on actors, models, media personalities, etc, to be thin? Are you being serious when you say that "fat people" are now preferred in these professions?
Two words.
Kate
Upton
Very beautiful young lady. If you took a measure of her body fat content, she would be considered obese. Nothing whatsoever fit about her. And she is not the only one.
https://swimsuit.si.com/news/kate-upton-si-swimsuit-2017-cover
Having lived in the '80s, I think plenty of people would have liked to see her in a swimsuit on SI back then too.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »Fidgetbrain wrote: »I don’t agree at all Jess, people don’t even know what a healthy body looks like even now, people were tearing apart Camila Cabello for being overweight and disgusting recently when she’s almost certainly at a healthy weight (I’m underweight and only a little thinner than her). The “healthy and fit” perfect woman of the moment usually shows up in a documentary a few years later talking about their eating disorder and how miserable they were at the time 😕. Even so, it’s not political correctness gone mad to also show representation for the majority of people instead of pretending thin bodies are the only ones which exist
I am not talking about a representation, I am talking about "fit shaming". Fat shaming used to be status quo, and it was wrong. But now, it seems like people are shamed for wanting to be fit, because it makes the fat people feel bad about themselves. I have nothing against anyone, regardless of their size. That being said, I am tired of being criticized for being in shape, and wanting to stay that way. If someone loves themselves the way they are, good on them. But don't tell me that I make someone else self conscious because I work my *kitten* off to stay healthy and in shape. If they don't want a reminder of how they look, they can do something about it. Its not my job to make them feel good about themselves. And it is not society's job either. People need to take whatever steps that they need to take in order to feel good about themselves.
Disclaimer: that is my opinion, and I am fully aware that having an opinion does not necessarily make me right.
Does "fit shaming" really exist anywhere except on social media? I have never, ever experienced this, but I'm not on Facebook or any of that crap. Where are you being shamed for being fit?
The reality is that being fit is still preferred in our society. Overweight/obese people are less likely to be hired, earn less money, and are passed over for promotions.
I'm sorry, but fat shaming still IS the status quo.
WE will have to agree to disagree.
I've been slender since 2015. I guess this is the sort of thing that will vary according to your social circle and family structure, but I've never gotten any criticism for being slender or regularly exercising, while I know it's routine for obese people to get all sorts of unwanted criticism and comments on their weight.
Does it happen? I mean, all sorts of unusual things happen in the world, so I'm not going to say it never happens.
But it's not like the tables have flipped and slender people are now the victims.
Yes, this is my experience too.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »Back in the day, actors, actresses, models, etc were forced to work out and bein shape to get and keep their jobs.
Today, political correctness means that we have to celebrate fat people. You see, there are more fat people to sell to than fit people, and we would certainly not want to "hurt anyone's feelings" by putting someone healthy and fit out into the public eye. Fattie Mae might break down and eat all the donuts.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Oh yes, the days of forced anorexia to keep your job was much better! And long gone, too! Nowadays, you never see an underweight model, right? Amirite?
Are you really suggesting that there is no longer any pressure on actors, models, media personalities, etc, to be thin? Are you being serious when you say that "fat people" are now preferred in these professions?
Two words.
Kate
Upton
Very beautiful young lady. If you took a measure of her body fat content, she would be considered obese. Nothing whatsoever fit about her. And she is not the only one.
I am not saying there is anything wrong with that. Just that there is no longer the pressure to remain fit in order to be on TV or in a magazine. I believe that is the difference between now and the 80's as this post topic stated. Society, the media, the government, want to be sure not to hurt the feelings of anyone.
Call me shallow, but I don't want to see a 235#, 5'4" woman modeling a bikini in a magazine or advertisement, and I guarantee you I won't be inclined to buy that bikini if I do see it. But the other side DOES want to see it, because it makes them feel good about themselves, and industry is selling to that side because they grossly (no pun intended) outweigh (no pun intended) the fit side.
Well, maybe pun intended.
Disclaimer: that is my opinion, and I am fully aware that having an opinion does not necessarily make me right.
I had no idea who she was, so I googled her. Unless she's recently gained a lot of weight, there's no way that she could be considered obese.
Serioulsy, of all the models that one could've chosen to represent an obese model--she's it?5 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »Fidgetbrain wrote: »I don’t agree at all Jess, people don’t even know what a healthy body looks like even now, people were tearing apart Camila Cabello for being overweight and disgusting recently when she’s almost certainly at a healthy weight (I’m underweight and only a little thinner than her). The “healthy and fit” perfect woman of the moment usually shows up in a documentary a few years later talking about their eating disorder and how miserable they were at the time 😕. Even so, it’s not political correctness gone mad to also show representation for the majority of people instead of pretending thin bodies are the only ones which exist
I am not talking about a representation, I am talking about "fit shaming". Fat shaming used to be status quo, and it was wrong. But now, it seems like people are shamed for wanting to be fit, because it makes the fat people feel bad about themselves. I have nothing against anyone, regardless of their size. That being said, I am tired of being criticized for being in shape, and wanting to stay that way. If someone loves themselves the way they are, good on them. But don't tell me that I make someone else self conscious because I work my *kitten* off to stay healthy and in shape. If they don't want a reminder of how they look, they can do something about it. Its not my job to make them feel good about themselves. And it is not society's job either. People need to take whatever steps that they need to take in order to feel good about themselves.
Disclaimer: that is my opinion, and I am fully aware that having an opinion does not necessarily make me right.
Does "fit shaming" really exist anywhere except on social media? I have never, ever experienced this, but I'm not on Facebook or any of that crap. Where are you being shamed for being fit?
The reality is that being fit is still preferred in our society. Overweight/obese people are less likely to be hired, earn less money, and are passed over for promotions.
I'm sorry, but fat shaming still IS the status quo.
WE will have to agree to disagree.
we're entitled to our opinions, not our own facts.6 -
Maybe... speculative here - believing women who are a totally normal weight for their height on every BMI chart ever, are OBESE influences how one is treated/believes they are treated for their fitness?6
-
janejellyroll wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »I waswunderkindking wrote: »So, so many snacks.
Having an afternoon snack right after school was a solid tradition. We lived near a Hostess Bakery outlet and boxes of Ho-ho's, Banana Flips, Snowballs and Zingers could be had for 50¢. We kids thought nothing of polishing off half a box in one go. Little Debbie apple cakes didn't last long either.
Of course the activity after the snack was going outside and playing not sitting on a video game eating more snacks like now.
Well, sometimes I'd have a snack and read a book or play with paper dolls or draw on the Etch-a-Sketch. Modern kids didn't invent sedentary hobbies. There probably are trends in physical activity that are relevant here, but I feel like this conversation overall is really flattening out differences and assuming an experience of 1980s life that is not necessarily accurate.
I'm pretty sure my 80s experience...at least most of the 80s is probably pretty skewed relative to many other people.
There were a lot of things I didn't really get much of like snack type food, sodas, etc and eating out was usually Sunday after church a couple times per month maybe. This is most likely because we were broke AF. I was always jealous of my friends who had pop-tarts and fruit roll-ups and such in their school lunches and I had a bologna sandwich some saltine crackers and an apple, banana, or grapes. I remember in first grade I desperately wanted to have a birthday at McDonalds and my dad just thought that was too expensive so he had a few of my friends over and just grilled burgers in the back yard.
My parents were also kinda crazy religious for a good chunk of my childhood. We had a t.v., but no cable...my parents though cable television was about as close to hell fire and brimstone as you could possibly get without actually entering Satan's lair. I also was growing up in a very small town in the middle of BFE Nebraska. No video games or gaming consoles until Nintendo came out...and then my dad decided video games were ok, but he bought a friggin' Atari 7800 instead of the NES.
My parents also figured out early on that both me and my sister were pretty good athletes...track and field for me and gymnastics for my sister. They pushed us really hard and really thought that was going to be our ticket. Sometimes it felt like my life back then was pretty much church, school, study, track...rinse and repeat year after year. I quit after my junior year in high school because I was completely burned out on it...so yeah, no college scholarship for me.1 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »I waswunderkindking wrote: »So, so many snacks.
Having an afternoon snack right after school was a solid tradition. We lived near a Hostess Bakery outlet and boxes of Ho-ho's, Banana Flips, Snowballs and Zingers could be had for 50¢. We kids thought nothing of polishing off half a box in one go. Little Debbie apple cakes didn't last long either.
Of course the activity after the snack was going outside and playing not sitting on a video game eating more snacks like now.
Well, sometimes I'd have a snack and read a book or play with paper dolls or draw on the Etch-a-Sketch. Modern kids didn't invent sedentary hobbies. There probably are trends in physical activity that are relevant here, but I feel like this conversation overall is really flattening out differences and assuming an experience of 1980s life that is not necessarily accurate.
[ in the middle of BFE Nebraska.
Ha.
I've been there....
and I have never felt more alone in my life.
1 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Motorsheen wrote: »I have absolutely nothing of value to contribute to this thread. (or much anywhere else.)
I was just looking for an excuse to post this gif.
It somehow makes sense here..... maybe.
.
My mom was super into Richard Simmons...
And who could blame her ?!?
He's Simply Fabulous !
2 -
Saw an article today that reminded me of the discussion in this thread about whether fat-shaming has disappeared. It's from the mainstream press (WashingtonPost -- I know they have a pay wall, but I think you can read X number of articles for free per month), but it's written by a researcher in this area, and has links to actual studies and content by other researchers.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/overweight-discrimination-common-harmful/2021/06/11/2946c538-c88c-11eb-afd0-9726f7ec0ba6_story.html
0 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Saw an article today that reminded me of the discussion in this thread about whether fat-shaming has disappeared. It's from the mainstream press (WashingtonPost -- I know they have a pay wall, but I think you can read X number of articles for free per month), but it's written by a researcher in this area, and has links to actual studies and content by other researchers.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/overweight-discrimination-common-harmful/2021/06/11/2946c538-c88c-11eb-afd0-9726f7ec0ba6_story.html
Unfortunately, I'm not surprised, especially with the advent/prevalence of social media and online bullying. It actually seems more prominent than ever, despite the body acceptance movement. Shaming rarely, if ever, results in healthy weight loss or maintenance, either.
What's even more ironic is that we're fatter than ever as a country, yet this continues.1
https://youtu.be/2Gd0ZolGpB0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.2K Introduce Yourself
- 43.4K Getting Started
- 259.7K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 387 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.4K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 895 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.2K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions