Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
1980s definatly, and back..Why were people more fit, toned and healthy Looking?
Replies
-
LisaGetsMoving wrote: »A couple of things that have added to the trend of upward weight and waistlines is the increase in cheap fast food and convenience foods (loaded with fat/sugar) in peoples diets and the introduction of the computer, which influences more sitting than former generations ever did. I was born in the late 1950's, grew up in the 60's. It was rare to see a fat kid, rare to see anyone morbidly obese. Now, it's common.
This. I was born a few years later, early 60s, but same observations. I remember only two fat kids in school, and one went on a fitness kick the summer before high school and lost all the extra weight (and kept it off). We had 12 channels on TV so there was way less interesting stuff to watch, we mostly played outside and stayed active. Home computers were in their infancy, "games" were on a big machine that you played in an arcade. Fast food was an occasional treat, not an everyday event.
No, we weren't all doing recreational drugs to keep our weight down
We were just way less sedentary, and less reliant on convenience food.
Yes, there was only one fat kid in my grade in the 70s and 80s.
I used to ride my bike several miles to get to tennis lessons. I walked to dance lessons. I played outdoors.5 -
Snacks were apples.
And we got an orange in the toe of our stocking for Christmas.13 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Snacks were apples.
And we got an orange in the toe of our stocking for Christmas.
My kids actually still get 2 fruits each in their stocking (apple/mango or mango/pear, depending on the kid). Unlike me as a kid, they actually EAT their fruit before it goes rotten! They need to eat a fruit and/or veggie at every meal, though.
I've been thinking about this post and why is it that we continue to get fatter as a country (and other countries as well), despite not only knowing more than ever about health, weight loss and exercise, but in general having a lot more access to these resources as well.
I don't think people ate "healthier" foods back in the 80's and before then more so than now, as what was considered healthy has changed over the years (and continues to change). People were just as weight/image conscious in the past (if not more so), so obsession with how we look and how big or small we are is nothing new. However, I think 1. Portion sizes have grown over the years; 2.Access to foods, especially convenience foods and take-out/fast food has increased dramatically; 3. Snacking, and especially mindless snacking seems to have grown (although I definitely remember having snacks regularly as a kid in the 80's and 4. Way more stationary activities take up our time, like TV (so many ways/things to watch now), computer and video games and 5. Driving to more places as the suburban sprawl continues to happen.
I was interested in how drugs may have played a part in this, as I feel like I remember reading or seeing somewhere that amphetamines were a thing that doctors handed out like candy for anybody who said they needed to lose weight. OK, maybe not that quite dramatically, but I did do a little internet digging. I found some interesting articles, and it does seem amphetamines were regularly prescribed for weight loss until the late 70''s when oops--turns out they're actually pretty unsafe for most people. I also remember in the 90's that Phen-Fen was being touted as the next big weight loss drug, but oops again--pretty unsafe, and pulled from the market. I remember buying some supplements in I think in the early 00's that contained ephedra, but I don't think those are allowed to be sold in the US either (or at least they weren't, maybe that's changed now). I don't think the use of drugs or lack thereof has contributed significantly to the obesity epidemic, but it does seem the US in particular has a history of using these a little indiscriminately to aid in weight loss, even in people who may not have been that overweight.
https://www.nature.com/articles/nm0612-843
2 -
6 -
It was the big hair that made people look slimmer.
Perspective from someone born in 1960...
Never quite sure what people mean by "toned" but no as a generalisation they weren't more muscular if that's what you mean, they were just lighter and slimmer than the average now.
Compare sprinters or rugby players then and now for example.
Both in sports and the fashionable/desirable "look" more muscle is far more in vogue now than it was then.
It was rare to see women in the free weights section of gym in those days (sadly) and the step aerobics and leg-warmer stereotype was the mainstream.
For men there was far, far less emphasis amongst people training in the gym on being lean and muscular. Big and strong was far more common aspiration and bodybuilding levels of bodyfat was very much an unusual niche, very rare for people to have a six pack then.
But in terms of the general population then and now people simply eat more, snack more, do less home cooking and move far less.
The divergence in physiques between what is aspirational and what is normal/average is far wider now than it was then.
ETA - Health. Yes people were generally much closer to a healthy weight. Smoking was far more common and acceptable (even in the workplace) but despite medical advances in many things obesity is now reducing people's lifespan predictions for the current generation.
Agree 💯
80’s baby 🙋🏼♀️ It’s crazy how we got our fitness education from magazines and drug pushers from those programs on tv. Internet wasn’t a thing, and we couldn’t source check anything. Communities like this were not existent, and women were typically terrified they would get bulky if they even touched a weight. I started my first diet at 8 years old, and my mother gave me her diet pills. Scary times!6 -
It was the big hair that made people look slimmer.
Perspective from someone born in 1960...
Never quite sure what people mean by "toned" but no as a generalisation they weren't more muscular if that's what you mean, they were just lighter and slimmer than the average now.
Compare sprinters or rugby players then and now for example.
Both in sports and the fashionable/desirable "look" more muscle is far more in vogue now than it was then.
It was rare to see women in the free weights section of gym in those days (sadly) and the step aerobics and leg-warmer stereotype was the mainstream.
For men there was far, far less emphasis amongst people training in the gym on being lean and muscular. Big and strong was far more common aspiration and bodybuilding levels of bodyfat was very much an unusual niche, very rare for people to have a six pack then.
But in terms of the general population then and now people simply eat more, snack more, do less home cooking and move far less.
The divergence in physiques between what is aspirational and what is normal/average is far wider now than it was then.
ETA - Health. Yes people were generally much closer to a healthy weight. Smoking was far more common and acceptable (even in the workplace) but despite medical advances in many things obesity is now reducing people's lifespan predictions for the current generation.
Agree 💯
80’s baby 🙋🏼♀️ It’s crazy how we got our fitness education from magazines and drug pushers from those programs on tv. Internet wasn’t a thing, and we couldn’t source check anything. Communities like this were not existent, and women were typically terrified they would get bulky if they even touched a weight. I started my first diet at 8 years old, and my mother gave me her diet pills. Scary times!
Same! I was 15 in 1980. My friends and I didn’t know or care about fitness, we just wanted to be as skinny as possible. Cigarettes, black coffee, diet pills, and the Scarsdale diet! All this while we lay in the sun covered in baby oil to get as tan as possible!
11 -
I sign on to what snowflake and Ann said, among others, but to elaborate:Speakeasy76 wrote: »I've been thinking about this post and why is it that we continue to get fatter as a country (and other countries as well), despite not only knowing more than ever about health, weight loss and exercise, but in general having a lot more access to these resources as well.
I don't think people ate "healthier" foods back in the 80's and before then more so than now, as what was considered healthy has changed over the years (and continues to change). People were just as weight/image conscious in the past (if not more so), so obsession with how we look and how big or small we are is nothing new. However, I think 1. Portion sizes have grown over the years; 2.Access to foods, especially convenience foods and take-out/fast food has increased dramatically; 3. Snacking, and especially mindless snacking seems to have grown (although I definitely remember having snacks regularly as a kid in the 80's and 4. Way more stationary activities take up our time, like TV (so many ways/things to watch now), computer and video games and 5. Driving to more places as the suburban sprawl continues to happen.
Access to delivery has likely changed, and a lot more restaurants (with a much higher variety of food) do take-out, but I doubt "access" has changed for most people. Fast food was certainly completely accessible from what I recall of my childhood (I was 10 in 1980). Convenience foods were also incredibly accessible, as were snack and dessert type foods, although the variety of those was likely much less (although also there were fewer lower cal options) and across the board I would agree that portion sizes were smaller.
When I was a kid we had fast food (which was seen as mostly for kids in my memory) rarely, as a special treat. The kids meals were not yet including the fruit instead of fries options, though. We didn't have soda at home (my mom had diet soda, but the kids weren't given soda as a regular drink--it was rare, like if we went out to eat or to McD's). Going to other types of restaurants was mostly something my parents did, although occasionally we'd go out to a kid appropriate place as a family. When my parents went out we'd get to have TV dinners, but this was also much rarer than I think people tend to go out today.
Regular meals may well have included some convenience foods (I hated cold cereal, but it was a common breakfast), and my mom would use canned veg and stuff like that, and canned soup was something we'd have for lunch, but dinners were normally meat, veg, and a starch (corn and potatoes were a starch, not a veg), and was generally largely homecooked from scratch. We had snacks after school, but that was about it, and we didn't have a bunch of candy or dessert type foods around the house -- we'd sometimes have cookies if my mom made them, and my dad likely Jell-O puddings for after dinner dessert.
I get the impression that on average (although obv not the case for all, most of the parents I know are likely more health knowledgeable and conscious than my parents, and also have lots more access to a wide variety of healthy foods, but that's a combination of changing food culture and that I didn't grow up in a big city and live in one now), people cook less these days and know less about cooking. My mom didn't really like cooking that much, but did so regularly, and my sister and I would sometimes cook with her and were encouraged to cook. (My mom also had a full time job from the time I was 8 and my sister 3.) So when I was an adult, that pattern of eating which was basically healthy (although could certainly be too many cals) seemed natural to me. From stats about veg eating in the US and simply some of the comments we get from newbies on MFP, I don't think that's as common now.
TV was watched plenty from what I recall, and cable came in by the mid 80s, but yes, we didn't have computer stuff like now (even computer games were extremely rudimentary and likely much less common). We would play outdoors, but I suspect that too is widely varying now based on location and parents. Little kids are likely less likely to be told to just go out and play where I am now (city), but in the 'burbs or more rural areas I think they may be, and even where I am now I see my neighbors kids biking around and playing very actively in the yard -- it's been interesting to see what they have done during the shut down, and they also endlessly get balls in my yard, although not so much now when it's super cold. I also see lots of organized kids sporting activities and know from friends that many kids participate in them, and that starts with places for active play when kids are little. So again, I think it varies a lot, but not that kids are inherently more sedentary now. (I would sit and read endlessly as a kid and yet was not fat.)
Regular life probably requires less activity now, but again that seems to vary by place. My parents both exercised by choice (my dad was into running and biking, my mom liked to walk and do any kind of dancing related exercise and aerobics), but on average I think that's likely even more popular (not aerobics, but exercising by choice) now in some ways. My parents also both drove to work and I took a bus that required only a short walk. Now I walk much farther than any of us did (or did pre coronavirus) to do errands and, especially, to commute, but I realize most parts of the US then and now are car-focused.
The biggest differences I see are (1) portions, (2) more choice/better tasting convenience options, (3) more of a culture of just snacking all day or thinking that's necessary or simple mindless eating since food is always around, and (4) fewer people being comfortable cooking or having a routine of having meals that are overall nutritious (i.e., that not having a veg should be a rare thing, not that vegetables are optional). But of course that's all biased by my own personal experiences and observances.2 -
I sign on to what snowflake and Ann said, among others, but to elaborate:Speakeasy76 wrote: »I've been thinking about this post and why is it that we continue to get fatter as a country (and other countries as well), despite not only knowing more than ever about health, weight loss and exercise, but in general having a lot more access to these resources as well.
I don't think people ate "healthier" foods back in the 80's and before then more so than now, as what was considered healthy has changed over the years (and continues to change). People were just as weight/image conscious in the past (if not more so), so obsession with how we look and how big or small we are is nothing new. However, I think 1. Portion sizes have grown over the years; 2.Access to foods, especially convenience foods and take-out/fast food has increased dramatically; 3. Snacking, and especially mindless snacking seems to have grown (although I definitely remember having snacks regularly as a kid in the 80's and 4. Way more stationary activities take up our time, like TV (so many ways/things to watch now), computer and video games and 5. Driving to more places as the suburban sprawl continues to happen.
Access to delivery has likely changed, and a lot more restaurants (with a much higher variety of food) do take-out, but I doubt "access" has changed for most people. Fast food was certainly completely accessible from what I recall of my childhood (I was 10 in 1980). Convenience foods were also incredibly accessible, as were snack and dessert type foods, although the variety of those was likely much less (although also there were fewer lower cal options) and across the board I would agree that portion sizes were smaller.
When I was a kid we had fast food (which was seen as mostly for kids in my memory) rarely, as a special treat. The kids meals were not yet including the fruit instead of fries options, though. We didn't have soda at home (my mom had diet soda, but the kids weren't given soda as a regular drink--it was rare, like if we went out to eat or to McD's). Going to other types of restaurants was mostly something my parents did, although occasionally we'd go out to a kid appropriate place as a family. When my parents went out we'd get to have TV dinners, but this was also much rarer than I think people tend to go out today.
Regular meals may well have included some convenience foods (I hated cold cereal, but it was a common breakfast), and my mom would use canned veg and stuff like that, and canned soup was something we'd have for lunch, but dinners were normally meat, veg, and a starch (corn and potatoes were a starch, not a veg), and was generally largely homecooked from scratch. We had snacks after school, but that was about it, and we didn't have a bunch of candy or dessert type foods around the house -- we'd sometimes have cookies if my mom made them, and my dad likely Jell-O puddings for after dinner dessert.
I get the impression that on average (although obv not the case for all, most of the parents I know are likely more health knowledgeable and conscious than my parents, and also have lots more access to a wide variety of healthy foods, but that's a combination of changing food culture and that I didn't grow up in a big city and live in one now), people cook less these days and know less about cooking. My mom didn't really like cooking that much, but did so regularly, and my sister and I would sometimes cook with her and were encouraged to cook. (My mom also had a full time job from the time I was 8 and my sister 3.) So when I was an adult, that pattern of eating which was basically healthy (although could certainly be too many cals) seemed natural to me. From stats about veg eating in the US and simply some of the comments we get from newbies on MFP, I don't think that's as common now.
TV was watched plenty from what I recall, and cable came in by the mid 80s, but yes, we didn't have computer stuff like now (even computer games were extremely rudimentary and likely much less common). We would play outdoors, but I suspect that too is widely varying now based on location and parents. Little kids are likely less likely to be told to just go out and play where I am now (city), but in the 'burbs or more rural areas I think they may be, and even where I am now I see my neighbors kids biking around and playing very actively in the yard -- it's been interesting to see what they have done during the shut down, and they also endlessly get balls in my yard, although not so much now when it's super cold. I also see lots of organized kids sporting activities and know from friends that many kids participate in them, and that starts with places for active play when kids are little. So again, I think it varies a lot, but not that kids are inherently more sedentary now. (I would sit and read endlessly as a kid and yet was not fat.)
Regular life probably requires less activity now, but again that seems to vary by place. My parents both exercised by choice (my dad was into running and biking, my mom liked to walk and do any kind of dancing related exercise and aerobics), but on average I think that's likely even more popular (not aerobics, but exercising by choice) now in some ways. My parents also both drove to work and I took a bus that required only a short walk. Now I walk much farther than any of us did (or did pre coronavirus) to do errands and, especially, to commute, but I realize most parts of the US then and now are car-focused.
The biggest differences I see are (1) portions, (2) more choice/better tasting convenience options, (3) more of a culture of just snacking all day or thinking that's necessary or simple mindless eating since food is always aaround, and (4) fewer people being comfortable cooking or having a routine of having meals that are overall nutritious (i.e., that not having a veg should be a rare thing, not that vegetables are optional). But of course that's all biased by my own personal experiences and observances.
I think another thing that may or not contribute is that more women work outside of the home, and therefore families may be eating more takeout or quick meals out of convenience. I am fortunate that I work part-time and enjoy cooking, but I know not all families have that option or desire at the end of a long day. I'm not saying that families with 2 parents working full-time outside of the home can't have nutritious meals, but I do think it's harder to do that when both parents aren't working full-time. I also see at daycares where little kids are given BIG portions of snacks like Goldfish and Nutri-grain bars at like age 2 (and then wonder why they kids don't want to eat their main meals).
I have 2 young kids, 9 and 11, and I know that even though organized sports are WAY more popular than when I was a kid in the 80's (as in there are more options and practices are more frequent), I think overall kids are more sedentary outside of those activities. Video games and social media are huge, especially as they get into the pre-teen and teenage years. Video games are just so much more graphically better than they used to be, so more enticing. Also, there are lot more options for not only what to watch on TV but WHERE to watch it.
I grew up in family where meals were like yours--my mom cooked every night (she didn't work outside the home), and it was a treat to get fast food for a family of 6. Even though we lived in the suburb of a mid-large size city, there was only a McDonald's nearby. Now by my parent's old house there are probably at least 15 fast food/convenience food options! We did have snacks like Little Debbies and were allowed one candy bar per week and soda once a day. However, in middle school I remember that I could use the lunch money my parents gave me to get a milkshake or a Hostess cake for "lunch!" That seems so ridiculous to me now, but I think cafeteria meals have only gotten a bit more nutritious. I played outside a lot with my friends up until about age 13. However, I was a slightly overweight kid, even though my brothers and parents weren't (though my dad was larger, but I wouldn't every say he was "fat"). Because of that, I learned about weight loss, healthier eating and exercise at a younger age than others.
I think the mindless snacking/eating and multi-tasking in general is kind of a big problem when it comes not only to eating and weight gain, but mental health and cognitive function in general.2 -
Speakeasy76 wrote: »I sign on to what snowflake and Ann said, among others, but to elaborate:Speakeasy76 wrote: »I've been thinking about this post and why is it that we continue to get fatter as a country (and other countries as well), despite not only knowing more than ever about health, weight loss and exercise, but in general having a lot more access to these resources as well.
I don't think people ate "healthier" foods back in the 80's and before then more so than now, as what was considered healthy has changed over the years (and continues to change). People were just as weight/image conscious in the past (if not more so), so obsession with how we look and how big or small we are is nothing new. However, I think 1. Portion sizes have grown over the years; 2.Access to foods, especially convenience foods and take-out/fast food has increased dramatically; 3. Snacking, and especially mindless snacking seems to have grown (although I definitely remember having snacks regularly as a kid in the 80's and 4. Way more stationary activities take up our time, like TV (so many ways/things to watch now), computer and video games and 5. Driving to more places as the suburban sprawl continues to happen.
Access to delivery has likely changed, and a lot more restaurants (with a much higher variety of food) do take-out, but I doubt "access" has changed for most people. Fast food was certainly completely accessible from what I recall of my childhood (I was 10 in 1980). Convenience foods were also incredibly accessible, as were snack and dessert type foods, although the variety of those was likely much less (although also there were fewer lower cal options) and across the board I would agree that portion sizes were smaller.
When I was a kid we had fast food (which was seen as mostly for kids in my memory) rarely, as a special treat. The kids meals were not yet including the fruit instead of fries options, though. We didn't have soda at home (my mom had diet soda, but the kids weren't given soda as a regular drink--it was rare, like if we went out to eat or to McD's). Going to other types of restaurants was mostly something my parents did, although occasionally we'd go out to a kid appropriate place as a family. When my parents went out we'd get to have TV dinners, but this was also much rarer than I think people tend to go out today.
Regular meals may well have included some convenience foods (I hated cold cereal, but it was a common breakfast), and my mom would use canned veg and stuff like that, and canned soup was something we'd have for lunch, but dinners were normally meat, veg, and a starch (corn and potatoes were a starch, not a veg), and was generally largely homecooked from scratch. We had snacks after school, but that was about it, and we didn't have a bunch of candy or dessert type foods around the house -- we'd sometimes have cookies if my mom made them, and my dad likely Jell-O puddings for after dinner dessert.
I get the impression that on average (although obv not the case for all, most of the parents I know are likely more health knowledgeable and conscious than my parents, and also have lots more access to a wide variety of healthy foods, but that's a combination of changing food culture and that I didn't grow up in a big city and live in one now), people cook less these days and know less about cooking. My mom didn't really like cooking that much, but did so regularly, and my sister and I would sometimes cook with her and were encouraged to cook. (My mom also had a full time job from the time I was 8 and my sister 3.) So when I was an adult, that pattern of eating which was basically healthy (although could certainly be too many cals) seemed natural to me. From stats about veg eating in the US and simply some of the comments we get from newbies on MFP, I don't think that's as common now.
TV was watched plenty from what I recall, and cable came in by the mid 80s, but yes, we didn't have computer stuff like now (even computer games were extremely rudimentary and likely much less common). We would play outdoors, but I suspect that too is widely varying now based on location and parents. Little kids are likely less likely to be told to just go out and play where I am now (city), but in the 'burbs or more rural areas I think they may be, and even where I am now I see my neighbors kids biking around and playing very actively in the yard -- it's been interesting to see what they have done during the shut down, and they also endlessly get balls in my yard, although not so much now when it's super cold. I also see lots of organized kids sporting activities and know from friends that many kids participate in them, and that starts with places for active play when kids are little. So again, I think it varies a lot, but not that kids are inherently more sedentary now. (I would sit and read endlessly as a kid and yet was not fat.)
Regular life probably requires less activity now, but again that seems to vary by place. My parents both exercised by choice (my dad was into running and biking, my mom liked to walk and do any kind of dancing related exercise and aerobics), but on average I think that's likely even more popular (not aerobics, but exercising by choice) now in some ways. My parents also both drove to work and I took a bus that required only a short walk. Now I walk much farther than any of us did (or did pre coronavirus) to do errands and, especially, to commute, but I realize most parts of the US then and now are car-focused.
The biggest differences I see are (1) portions, (2) more choice/better tasting convenience options, (3) more of a culture of just snacking all day or thinking that's necessary or simple mindless eating since food is always aaround, and (4) fewer people being comfortable cooking or having a routine of having meals that are overall nutritious (i.e., that not having a veg should be a rare thing, not that vegetables are optional). But of course that's all biased by my own personal experiences and observances.
I think another thing that may or not contribute is that more women work outside of the home, and therefore families may be eating more takeout or quick meals out of convenience.
I'm not so sure, as as I said my mom worked full time from when I was 8 and my sister 3 (1978). Most of my neighbors (whose kids are active and not overweight) work full time and yet are more nutrition conscious and foodie than my mom was--and they are in a bigger city with a food culture and better off class-wise, and more educated. I think there's more to it than women working.I have 2 young kids, 9 and 11, and I know that even though organized sports are WAY more popular than when I was a kid in the 80's (as in there are more options and practices are more frequent), I think overall kids are more sedentary outside of those activities. Video games and social media are huge, especially as they get into the pre-teen and teenage years. Video games are just so much more graphically better than they used to be, so more enticing. Also, there are lot more options for not only what to watch on TV but WHERE to watch it.
Yes, I think this is possible, although as noted I was way more into reading than running around outside as a kid and yet was not overweight.I grew up in family where meals were like yours--my mom cooked every night (she didn't work outside the home), and it was a treat to get fast food for a family of 6. Even though we lived in the suburb of a mid-large size city, there was only a McDonald's nearby. Now by my parent's old house there are probably at least 15 fast food/convenience food options!
This is not consistent with what I see. We had McD's and BK in walking distance, and a Wendy's between my parents work and my home, as well as various other fast food (I liked Long John Silvers the best as a kid). In a big city now I have a McD's within walking distance and others in an easy drive but normally drive way less (and a lower percentage of the population here has a car). I don't think less access to fast food in the '80s is really a thing in most of the country, it seems pretty similar to me.
2 -
Speakeasy76 wrote: »I sign on to what snowflake and Ann said, among others, but to elaborate:Speakeasy76 wrote: »I've been thinking about this post and why is it that we continue to get fatter as a country (and other countries as well), despite not only knowing more than ever about health, weight loss and exercise, but in general having a lot more access to these resources as well.
I don't think people ate "healthier" foods back in the 80's and before then more so than now, as what was considered healthy has changed over the years (and continues to change). People were just as weight/image conscious in the past (if not more so), so obsession with how we look and how big or small we are is nothing new. However, I think 1. Portion sizes have grown over the years; 2.Access to foods, especially convenience foods and take-out/fast food has increased dramatically; 3. Snacking, and especially mindless snacking seems to have grown (although I definitely remember having snacks regularly as a kid in the 80's and 4. Way more stationary activities take up our time, like TV (so many ways/things to watch now), computer and video games and 5. Driving to more places as the suburban sprawl continues to happen.
Access to delivery has likely changed, and a lot more restaurants (with a much higher variety of food) do take-out, but I doubt "access" has changed for most people. Fast food was certainly completely accessible from what I recall of my childhood (I was 10 in 1980). Convenience foods were also incredibly accessible, as were snack and dessert type foods, although the variety of those was likely much less (although also there were fewer lower cal options) and across the board I would agree that portion sizes were smaller.
When I was a kid we had fast food (which was seen as mostly for kids in my memory) rarely, as a special treat. The kids meals were not yet including the fruit instead of fries options, though. We didn't have soda at home (my mom had diet soda, but the kids weren't given soda as a regular drink--it was rare, like if we went out to eat or to McD's). Going to other types of restaurants was mostly something my parents did, although occasionally we'd go out to a kid appropriate place as a family. When my parents went out we'd get to have TV dinners, but this was also much rarer than I think people tend to go out today.
Regular meals may well have included some convenience foods (I hated cold cereal, but it was a common breakfast), and my mom would use canned veg and stuff like that, and canned soup was something we'd have for lunch, but dinners were normally meat, veg, and a starch (corn and potatoes were a starch, not a veg), and was generally largely homecooked from scratch. We had snacks after school, but that was about it, and we didn't have a bunch of candy or dessert type foods around the house -- we'd sometimes have cookies if my mom made them, and my dad likely Jell-O puddings for after dinner dessert.
I get the impression that on average (although obv not the case for all, most of the parents I know are likely more health knowledgeable and conscious than my parents, and also have lots more access to a wide variety of healthy foods, but that's a combination of changing food culture and that I didn't grow up in a big city and live in one now), people cook less these days and know less about cooking. My mom didn't really like cooking that much, but did so regularly, and my sister and I would sometimes cook with her and were encouraged to cook. (My mom also had a full time job from the time I was 8 and my sister 3.) So when I was an adult, that pattern of eating which was basically healthy (although could certainly be too many cals) seemed natural to me. From stats about veg eating in the US and simply some of the comments we get from newbies on MFP, I don't think that's as common now.
TV was watched plenty from what I recall, and cable came in by the mid 80s, but yes, we didn't have computer stuff like now (even computer games were extremely rudimentary and likely much less common). We would play outdoors, but I suspect that too is widely varying now based on location and parents. Little kids are likely less likely to be told to just go out and play where I am now (city), but in the 'burbs or more rural areas I think they may be, and even where I am now I see my neighbors kids biking around and playing very actively in the yard -- it's been interesting to see what they have done during the shut down, and they also endlessly get balls in my yard, although not so much now when it's super cold. I also see lots of organized kids sporting activities and know from friends that many kids participate in them, and that starts with places for active play when kids are little. So again, I think it varies a lot, but not that kids are inherently more sedentary now. (I would sit and read endlessly as a kid and yet was not fat.)
Regular life probably requires less activity now, but again that seems to vary by place. My parents both exercised by choice (my dad was into running and biking, my mom liked to walk and do any kind of dancing related exercise and aerobics), but on average I think that's likely even more popular (not aerobics, but exercising by choice) now in some ways. My parents also both drove to work and I took a bus that required only a short walk. Now I walk much farther than any of us did (or did pre coronavirus) to do errands and, especially, to commute, but I realize most parts of the US then and now are car-focused.
The biggest differences I see are (1) portions, (2) more choice/better tasting convenience options, (3) more of a culture of just snacking all day or thinking that's necessary or simple mindless eating since food is always aaround, and (4) fewer people being comfortable cooking or having a routine of having meals that are overall nutritious (i.e., that not having a veg should be a rare thing, not that vegetables are optional). But of course that's all biased by my own personal experiences and observances.
I think another thing that may or not contribute is that more women work outside of the home, and therefore families may be eating more takeout or quick meals out of convenience.
I'm not so sure, as as I said my mom worked full time from when I was 8 and my sister 3 (1978). Most of my neighbors (whose kids are active and not overweight) work full time and yet are more nutrition conscious and foodie than my mom was--and they are in a bigger city with a food culture and better off class-wise, and more educated. I think there's more to it than women working.I have 2 young kids, 9 and 11, and I know that even though organized sports are WAY more popular than when I was a kid in the 80's (as in there are more options and practices are more frequent), I think overall kids are more sedentary outside of those activities. Video games and social media are huge, especially as they get into the pre-teen and teenage years. Video games are just so much more graphically better than they used to be, so more enticing. Also, there are lot more options for not only what to watch on TV but WHERE to watch it.
Yes, I think this is possible, although as noted I was way more into reading than running around outside as a kid and yet was not overweight.I grew up in family where meals were like yours--my mom cooked every night (she didn't work outside the home), and it was a treat to get fast food for a family of 6. Even though we lived in the suburb of a mid-large size city, there was only a McDonald's nearby. Now by my parent's old house there are probably at least 15 fast food/convenience food options!
This is not consistent with what I see. We had McD's and BK in walking distance, and a Wendy's between my parents work and my home, as well as various other fast food (I liked Long John Silvers the best as a kid). In a big city now I have a McD's within walking distance and others in an easy drive but normally drive way less (and a lower percentage of the population here has a car). I don't think less access to fast food in the '80s is really a thing in most of the country, it seems pretty similar to me.
Anecdotally, the difference I see is that when I went to McDonald's as a kid, it was for an actual planned meal. It seems more common now to just get food because you just want it, not necessarily as part of a meal.
There's no real barrier against adding extra meals to the day. If you have breakfast and you go to work and there's breakfast there, you eat it. If you eat lunch and later there's pizza in the break room, you eat it. If you're hungry on the way home from work, you might swing by Taco Bell before dinner.
It's the normalization of all day hunger and all day eating.
I'm sure there were people doing this in the 80s too, but I get the sense that it's all much more normal now.11 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Speakeasy76 wrote: »I sign on to what snowflake and Ann said, among others, but to elaborate:Speakeasy76 wrote: »I've been thinking about this post and why is it that we continue to get fatter as a country (and other countries as well), despite not only knowing more than ever about health, weight loss and exercise, but in general having a lot more access to these resources as well.
I don't think people ate "healthier" foods back in the 80's and before then more so than now, as what was considered healthy has changed over the years (and continues to change). People were just as weight/image conscious in the past (if not more so), so obsession with how we look and how big or small we are is nothing new. However, I think 1. Portion sizes have grown over the years; 2.Access to foods, especially convenience foods and take-out/fast food has increased dramatically; 3. Snacking, and especially mindless snacking seems to have grown (although I definitely remember having snacks regularly as a kid in the 80's and 4. Way more stationary activities take up our time, like TV (so many ways/things to watch now), computer and video games and 5. Driving to more places as the suburban sprawl continues to happen.
Access to delivery has likely changed, and a lot more restaurants (with a much higher variety of food) do take-out, but I doubt "access" has changed for most people. Fast food was certainly completely accessible from what I recall of my childhood (I was 10 in 1980). Convenience foods were also incredibly accessible, as were snack and dessert type foods, although the variety of those was likely much less (although also there were fewer lower cal options) and across the board I would agree that portion sizes were smaller.
When I was a kid we had fast food (which was seen as mostly for kids in my memory) rarely, as a special treat. The kids meals were not yet including the fruit instead of fries options, though. We didn't have soda at home (my mom had diet soda, but the kids weren't given soda as a regular drink--it was rare, like if we went out to eat or to McD's). Going to other types of restaurants was mostly something my parents did, although occasionally we'd go out to a kid appropriate place as a family. When my parents went out we'd get to have TV dinners, but this was also much rarer than I think people tend to go out today.
Regular meals may well have included some convenience foods (I hated cold cereal, but it was a common breakfast), and my mom would use canned veg and stuff like that, and canned soup was something we'd have for lunch, but dinners were normally meat, veg, and a starch (corn and potatoes were a starch, not a veg), and was generally largely homecooked from scratch. We had snacks after school, but that was about it, and we didn't have a bunch of candy or dessert type foods around the house -- we'd sometimes have cookies if my mom made them, and my dad likely Jell-O puddings for after dinner dessert.
I get the impression that on average (although obv not the case for all, most of the parents I know are likely more health knowledgeable and conscious than my parents, and also have lots more access to a wide variety of healthy foods, but that's a combination of changing food culture and that I didn't grow up in a big city and live in one now), people cook less these days and know less about cooking. My mom didn't really like cooking that much, but did so regularly, and my sister and I would sometimes cook with her and were encouraged to cook. (My mom also had a full time job from the time I was 8 and my sister 3.) So when I was an adult, that pattern of eating which was basically healthy (although could certainly be too many cals) seemed natural to me. From stats about veg eating in the US and simply some of the comments we get from newbies on MFP, I don't think that's as common now.
TV was watched plenty from what I recall, and cable came in by the mid 80s, but yes, we didn't have computer stuff like now (even computer games were extremely rudimentary and likely much less common). We would play outdoors, but I suspect that too is widely varying now based on location and parents. Little kids are likely less likely to be told to just go out and play where I am now (city), but in the 'burbs or more rural areas I think they may be, and even where I am now I see my neighbors kids biking around and playing very actively in the yard -- it's been interesting to see what they have done during the shut down, and they also endlessly get balls in my yard, although not so much now when it's super cold. I also see lots of organized kids sporting activities and know from friends that many kids participate in them, and that starts with places for active play when kids are little. So again, I think it varies a lot, but not that kids are inherently more sedentary now. (I would sit and read endlessly as a kid and yet was not fat.)
Regular life probably requires less activity now, but again that seems to vary by place. My parents both exercised by choice (my dad was into running and biking, my mom liked to walk and do any kind of dancing related exercise and aerobics), but on average I think that's likely even more popular (not aerobics, but exercising by choice) now in some ways. My parents also both drove to work and I took a bus that required only a short walk. Now I walk much farther than any of us did (or did pre coronavirus) to do errands and, especially, to commute, but I realize most parts of the US then and now are car-focused.
The biggest differences I see are (1) portions, (2) more choice/better tasting convenience options, (3) more of a culture of just snacking all day or thinking that's necessary or simple mindless eating since food is always aaround, and (4) fewer people being comfortable cooking or having a routine of having meals that are overall nutritious (i.e., that not having a veg should be a rare thing, not that vegetables are optional). But of course that's all biased by my own personal experiences and observances.
I think another thing that may or not contribute is that more women work outside of the home, and therefore families may be eating more takeout or quick meals out of convenience.
I'm not so sure, as as I said my mom worked full time from when I was 8 and my sister 3 (1978). Most of my neighbors (whose kids are active and not overweight) work full time and yet are more nutrition conscious and foodie than my mom was--and they are in a bigger city with a food culture and better off class-wise, and more educated. I think there's more to it than women working.I have 2 young kids, 9 and 11, and I know that even though organized sports are WAY more popular than when I was a kid in the 80's (as in there are more options and practices are more frequent), I think overall kids are more sedentary outside of those activities. Video games and social media are huge, especially as they get into the pre-teen and teenage years. Video games are just so much more graphically better than they used to be, so more enticing. Also, there are lot more options for not only what to watch on TV but WHERE to watch it.
Yes, I think this is possible, although as noted I was way more into reading than running around outside as a kid and yet was not overweight.I grew up in family where meals were like yours--my mom cooked every night (she didn't work outside the home), and it was a treat to get fast food for a family of 6. Even though we lived in the suburb of a mid-large size city, there was only a McDonald's nearby. Now by my parent's old house there are probably at least 15 fast food/convenience food options!
This is not consistent with what I see. We had McD's and BK in walking distance, and a Wendy's between my parents work and my home, as well as various other fast food (I liked Long John Silvers the best as a kid). In a big city now I have a McD's within walking distance and others in an easy drive but normally drive way less (and a lower percentage of the population here has a car). I don't think less access to fast food in the '80s is really a thing in most of the country, it seems pretty similar to me.
Anecdotally, the difference I see is that when I went to McDonald's as a kid, it was for an actual planned meal. It seems more common now to just get food because you just want it, not necessarily as part of a meal.
That's interesting, and as it is something I've never really noticed people doing (well, not fast food, like a burger and/or fries, which I'm a little surprised people would eat between meals, but I believe it -- definitely snacks, however, like a high cal latte or a cookie or something, at a Starbucks or the like, or a bagel in the breakroom in the morning or a bag of chips from a stash kept in the office kitchen or some such). I didn't think of that in relation to the FF thing, but I bet you are right. I wonder if that's why fast food may seem to some to have been less accessible in the olden days ('80s).
(IME, we didn't not eat out more than we did because it wasn't accessible, but because we kids had no choice and my parents had ideas about how often was appropriate, and I think for a higher percentage of the population eating it a lot more often is normalized now. I also think, of course, that if you were a kid at one time and an adult now, then everything is of course more accessible, but that's not because the '80s were somehow lacking for fast convenient foods.)There's no real barrier against adding extra meals to the day. If you have breakfast and you go to work and there's breakfast there, you eat it. If you eat lunch and later there's pizza in the break room, you eat it. If you're hungry on the way home from work, you might swing by Taco Bell before dinner.
It's the normalization of all day hunger and all day eating.
I'm sure there were people doing this in the 80s too, but I get the sense that it's all much more normal now.
I strongly agree with this.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Speakeasy76 wrote: »I sign on to what snowflake and Ann said, among others, but to elaborate:Speakeasy76 wrote: »I've been thinking about this post and why is it that we continue to get fatter as a country (and other countries as well), despite not only knowing more than ever about health, weight loss and exercise, but in general having a lot more access to these resources as well.
I don't think people ate "healthier" foods back in the 80's and before then more so than now, as what was considered healthy has changed over the years (and continues to change). People were just as weight/image conscious in the past (if not more so), so obsession with how we look and how big or small we are is nothing new. However, I think 1. Portion sizes have grown over the years; 2.Access to foods, especially convenience foods and take-out/fast food has increased dramatically; 3. Snacking, and especially mindless snacking seems to have grown (although I definitely remember having snacks regularly as a kid in the 80's and 4. Way more stationary activities take up our time, like TV (so many ways/things to watch now), computer and video games and 5. Driving to more places as the suburban sprawl continues to happen.
Access to delivery has likely changed, and a lot more restaurants (with a much higher variety of food) do take-out, but I doubt "access" has changed for most people. Fast food was certainly completely accessible from what I recall of my childhood (I was 10 in 1980). Convenience foods were also incredibly accessible, as were snack and dessert type foods, although the variety of those was likely much less (although also there were fewer lower cal options) and across the board I would agree that portion sizes were smaller.
When I was a kid we had fast food (which was seen as mostly for kids in my memory) rarely, as a special treat. The kids meals were not yet including the fruit instead of fries options, though. We didn't have soda at home (my mom had diet soda, but the kids weren't given soda as a regular drink--it was rare, like if we went out to eat or to McD's). Going to other types of restaurants was mostly something my parents did, although occasionally we'd go out to a kid appropriate place as a family. When my parents went out we'd get to have TV dinners, but this was also much rarer than I think people tend to go out today.
Regular meals may well have included some convenience foods (I hated cold cereal, but it was a common breakfast), and my mom would use canned veg and stuff like that, and canned soup was something we'd have for lunch, but dinners were normally meat, veg, and a starch (corn and potatoes were a starch, not a veg), and was generally largely homecooked from scratch. We had snacks after school, but that was about it, and we didn't have a bunch of candy or dessert type foods around the house -- we'd sometimes have cookies if my mom made them, and my dad likely Jell-O puddings for after dinner dessert.
I get the impression that on average (although obv not the case for all, most of the parents I know are likely more health knowledgeable and conscious than my parents, and also have lots more access to a wide variety of healthy foods, but that's a combination of changing food culture and that I didn't grow up in a big city and live in one now), people cook less these days and know less about cooking. My mom didn't really like cooking that much, but did so regularly, and my sister and I would sometimes cook with her and were encouraged to cook. (My mom also had a full time job from the time I was 8 and my sister 3.) So when I was an adult, that pattern of eating which was basically healthy (although could certainly be too many cals) seemed natural to me. From stats about veg eating in the US and simply some of the comments we get from newbies on MFP, I don't think that's as common now.
TV was watched plenty from what I recall, and cable came in by the mid 80s, but yes, we didn't have computer stuff like now (even computer games were extremely rudimentary and likely much less common). We would play outdoors, but I suspect that too is widely varying now based on location and parents. Little kids are likely less likely to be told to just go out and play where I am now (city), but in the 'burbs or more rural areas I think they may be, and even where I am now I see my neighbors kids biking around and playing very actively in the yard -- it's been interesting to see what they have done during the shut down, and they also endlessly get balls in my yard, although not so much now when it's super cold. I also see lots of organized kids sporting activities and know from friends that many kids participate in them, and that starts with places for active play when kids are little. So again, I think it varies a lot, but not that kids are inherently more sedentary now. (I would sit and read endlessly as a kid and yet was not fat.)
Regular life probably requires less activity now, but again that seems to vary by place. My parents both exercised by choice (my dad was into running and biking, my mom liked to walk and do any kind of dancing related exercise and aerobics), but on average I think that's likely even more popular (not aerobics, but exercising by choice) now in some ways. My parents also both drove to work and I took a bus that required only a short walk. Now I walk much farther than any of us did (or did pre coronavirus) to do errands and, especially, to commute, but I realize most parts of the US then and now are car-focused.
The biggest differences I see are (1) portions, (2) more choice/better tasting convenience options, (3) more of a culture of just snacking all day or thinking that's necessary or simple mindless eating since food is always aaround, and (4) fewer people being comfortable cooking or having a routine of having meals that are overall nutritious (i.e., that not having a veg should be a rare thing, not that vegetables are optional). But of course that's all biased by my own personal experiences and observances.
I think another thing that may or not contribute is that more women work outside of the home, and therefore families may be eating more takeout or quick meals out of convenience.
I'm not so sure, as as I said my mom worked full time from when I was 8 and my sister 3 (1978). Most of my neighbors (whose kids are active and not overweight) work full time and yet are more nutrition conscious and foodie than my mom was--and they are in a bigger city with a food culture and better off class-wise, and more educated. I think there's more to it than women working.I have 2 young kids, 9 and 11, and I know that even though organized sports are WAY more popular than when I was a kid in the 80's (as in there are more options and practices are more frequent), I think overall kids are more sedentary outside of those activities. Video games and social media are huge, especially as they get into the pre-teen and teenage years. Video games are just so much more graphically better than they used to be, so more enticing. Also, there are lot more options for not only what to watch on TV but WHERE to watch it.
Yes, I think this is possible, although as noted I was way more into reading than running around outside as a kid and yet was not overweight.I grew up in family where meals were like yours--my mom cooked every night (she didn't work outside the home), and it was a treat to get fast food for a family of 6. Even though we lived in the suburb of a mid-large size city, there was only a McDonald's nearby. Now by my parent's old house there are probably at least 15 fast food/convenience food options!
This is not consistent with what I see. We had McD's and BK in walking distance, and a Wendy's between my parents work and my home, as well as various other fast food (I liked Long John Silvers the best as a kid). In a big city now I have a McD's within walking distance and others in an easy drive but normally drive way less (and a lower percentage of the population here has a car). I don't think less access to fast food in the '80s is really a thing in most of the country, it seems pretty similar to me.
Anecdotally, the difference I see is that when I went to McDonald's as a kid, it was for an actual planned meal. It seems more common now to just get food because you just want it, not necessarily as part of a meal.
That's interesting, and as it is something I've never really noticed people doing (well, not fast food, like a burger and/or fries, which I'm a little surprised people would eat between meals, but I believe it -- definitely snacks, however, like a high cal latte or a cookie or something, at a Starbucks or the like). I didn't think of that. I wonder if that's why fast food may seem to some to have been less accessible in the olden days ('80s). (We didn't not eat out more because it wasn't accessible, but because we kids had no choice and my parents had ideas about how often was appropriate, and I think for a higher percentage of the population eating it a lot more often is normalized now. I also think, of course, that if you were a kid at one time and an adult now, then everything is of course more accessible. But anyway I bet you are right.There's no real barrier against adding extra meals to the day. If you have breakfast and you go to work and there's breakfast there, you eat it. If you eat lunch and later there's pizza in the break room, you eat it. If you're hungry on the way home from work, you might swing by Taco Bell before dinner.
It's the normalization of all day hunger and all day eating.
I'm sure there were people doing this in the 80s too, but I get the sense that it's all much more normal now.
I strongly agree with this.
In terms of the "get a snack" all day thing: Beyond the Starbucks (etc.) example, one difference I've noticed from my childhood is the conjoining of snack-filled convenience stores with gas stations.
In my literal childhood (1950s-60s), gas stations *maybe* had a cooler of soft drinks (later, something more like the current vending machines; earlier, a special cooler filled with cold water that held bottles . . . often smaller than the current 12oz and bigger ones, like 7oz in some cases). A few gas stations might've had a spinner rack of potato chips near the cash register, or a couple of boxes of candy bars, maybe a gumball machine. It was not a standard thing to have gas stations with full convenience stores. Now, it seems rare to have them without that, plus often an embedded fast-food option, a grill, the sweet-drinks stations with the giant vat-cups, and more.
I mention the 1960s, but IIRC this was a thing that gradually changed, with the gas station snack options multiplying over time, and the tiny gas stations getting rebuilt/replaced by bigger buildings, maybe with drive-throughs. Also, more things (restaurants, fast food places, gas stations) had more limited hours that gradually increased, with 24x7 now common.
Some may think pay-at-pump limits the snack temptation, but back in those days pretty much all gas was pumped by an attendant, not the gas buyer, so it was possible then to gas up & pay without going inside, too.
On one of the past threads of this sort, I counted up the fast-food restaurants in the small town I grew up in. The town itself has not grown much in population, but it's more commercialized in diverse ways. I don't recall the exact numbers, but there were at least twice as many fast-food options there now (per Google maps) than were there when I moved away around 1973. My impression is that that's a common effect, if one looks at stats for some of the now-popular chains. Some mom'n'pops or small chains have gone out of business, but I think the overall trend has been burgeoning growth . . . probably not just fast food, but guessing restaurants of many types. May not be as true in large, dense cities - not sure - but the outskirts sprawl has a different mix now vs. the limited sprawl of the 1970s, IMO.
Another thing I noticed, when recently replacing some tableware (that I got when I was married in 1977) is that it was more difficult to find plates/bowls as small as the standard ones from those sets, let alone what we would've thought of as a desert (smaller) size. I'm not saying it's flat impossible to find small ones (maybe canape/small-plates buffet sized 😆), but I do think the typical standard sizes have increased.
I agree with you both about the increased social acceptability/expectation of all-day eating.9 -
it was all this..
3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Speakeasy76 wrote: »I sign on to what snowflake and Ann said, among others, but to elaborate:Speakeasy76 wrote: »I've been thinking about this post and why is it that we continue to get fatter as a country (and other countries as well), despite not only knowing more than ever about health, weight loss and exercise, but in general having a lot more access to these resources as well.
I don't think people ate "healthier" foods back in the 80's and before then more so than now, as what was considered healthy has changed over the years (and continues to change). People were just as weight/image conscious in the past (if not more so), so obsession with how we look and how big or small we are is nothing new. However, I think 1. Portion sizes have grown over the years; 2.Access to foods, especially convenience foods and take-out/fast food has increased dramatically; 3. Snacking, and especially mindless snacking seems to have grown (although I definitely remember having snacks regularly as a kid in the 80's and 4. Way more stationary activities take up our time, like TV (so many ways/things to watch now), computer and video games and 5. Driving to more places as the suburban sprawl continues to happen.
Access to delivery has likely changed, and a lot more restaurants (with a much higher variety of food) do take-out, but I doubt "access" has changed for most people. Fast food was certainly completely accessible from what I recall of my childhood (I was 10 in 1980). Convenience foods were also incredibly accessible, as were snack and dessert type foods, although the variety of those was likely much less (although also there were fewer lower cal options) and across the board I would agree that portion sizes were smaller.
When I was a kid we had fast food (which was seen as mostly for kids in my memory) rarely, as a special treat. The kids meals were not yet including the fruit instead of fries options, though. We didn't have soda at home (my mom had diet soda, but the kids weren't given soda as a regular drink--it was rare, like if we went out to eat or to McD's). Going to other types of restaurants was mostly something my parents did, although occasionally we'd go out to a kid appropriate place as a family. When my parents went out we'd get to have TV dinners, but this was also much rarer than I think people tend to go out today.
Regular meals may well have included some convenience foods (I hated cold cereal, but it was a common breakfast), and my mom would use canned veg and stuff like that, and canned soup was something we'd have for lunch, but dinners were normally meat, veg, and a starch (corn and potatoes were a starch, not a veg), and was generally largely homecooked from scratch. We had snacks after school, but that was about it, and we didn't have a bunch of candy or dessert type foods around the house -- we'd sometimes have cookies if my mom made them, and my dad likely Jell-O puddings for after dinner dessert.
I get the impression that on average (although obv not the case for all, most of the parents I know are likely more health knowledgeable and conscious than my parents, and also have lots more access to a wide variety of healthy foods, but that's a combination of changing food culture and that I didn't grow up in a big city and live in one now), people cook less these days and know less about cooking. My mom didn't really like cooking that much, but did so regularly, and my sister and I would sometimes cook with her and were encouraged to cook. (My mom also had a full time job from the time I was 8 and my sister 3.) So when I was an adult, that pattern of eating which was basically healthy (although could certainly be too many cals) seemed natural to me. From stats about veg eating in the US and simply some of the comments we get from newbies on MFP, I don't think that's as common now.
TV was watched plenty from what I recall, and cable came in by the mid 80s, but yes, we didn't have computer stuff like now (even computer games were extremely rudimentary and likely much less common). We would play outdoors, but I suspect that too is widely varying now based on location and parents. Little kids are likely less likely to be told to just go out and play where I am now (city), but in the 'burbs or more rural areas I think they may be, and even where I am now I see my neighbors kids biking around and playing very actively in the yard -- it's been interesting to see what they have done during the shut down, and they also endlessly get balls in my yard, although not so much now when it's super cold. I also see lots of organized kids sporting activities and know from friends that many kids participate in them, and that starts with places for active play when kids are little. So again, I think it varies a lot, but not that kids are inherently more sedentary now. (I would sit and read endlessly as a kid and yet was not fat.)
Regular life probably requires less activity now, but again that seems to vary by place. My parents both exercised by choice (my dad was into running and biking, my mom liked to walk and do any kind of dancing related exercise and aerobics), but on average I think that's likely even more popular (not aerobics, but exercising by choice) now in some ways. My parents also both drove to work and I took a bus that required only a short walk. Now I walk much farther than any of us did (or did pre coronavirus) to do errands and, especially, to commute, but I realize most parts of the US then and now are car-focused.
The biggest differences I see are (1) portions, (2) more choice/better tasting convenience options, (3) more of a culture of just snacking all day or thinking that's necessary or simple mindless eating since food is always aaround, and (4) fewer people being comfortable cooking or having a routine of having meals that are overall nutritious (i.e., that not having a veg should be a rare thing, not that vegetables are optional). But of course that's all biased by my own personal experiences and observances.
I think another thing that may or not contribute is that more women work outside of the home, and therefore families may be eating more takeout or quick meals out of convenience.
I'm not so sure, as as I said my mom worked full time from when I was 8 and my sister 3 (1978). Most of my neighbors (whose kids are active and not overweight) work full time and yet are more nutrition conscious and foodie than my mom was--and they are in a bigger city with a food culture and better off class-wise, and more educated. I think there's more to it than women working.I have 2 young kids, 9 and 11, and I know that even though organized sports are WAY more popular than when I was a kid in the 80's (as in there are more options and practices are more frequent), I think overall kids are more sedentary outside of those activities. Video games and social media are huge, especially as they get into the pre-teen and teenage years. Video games are just so much more graphically better than they used to be, so more enticing. Also, there are lot more options for not only what to watch on TV but WHERE to watch it.
Yes, I think this is possible, although as noted I was way more into reading than running around outside as a kid and yet was not overweight.I grew up in family where meals were like yours--my mom cooked every night (she didn't work outside the home), and it was a treat to get fast food for a family of 6. Even though we lived in the suburb of a mid-large size city, there was only a McDonald's nearby. Now by my parent's old house there are probably at least 15 fast food/convenience food options!
This is not consistent with what I see. We had McD's and BK in walking distance, and a Wendy's between my parents work and my home, as well as various other fast food (I liked Long John Silvers the best as a kid). In a big city now I have a McD's within walking distance and others in an easy drive but normally drive way less (and a lower percentage of the population here has a car). I don't think less access to fast food in the '80s is really a thing in most of the country, it seems pretty similar to me.
Anecdotally, the difference I see is that when I went to McDonald's as a kid, it was for an actual planned meal. It seems more common now to just get food because you just want it, not necessarily as part of a meal.
That's interesting, and as it is something I've never really noticed people doing (well, not fast food, like a burger and/or fries, which I'm a little surprised people would eat between meals, but I believe it -- definitely snacks, however, like a high cal latte or a cookie or something, at a Starbucks or the like, or a bagel in the breakroom in the morning or a bag of chips from a stash kept in the office kitchen or some such). I didn't think of that in relation to the FF thing, but I bet you are right. I wonder if that's why fast food may seem to some to have been less accessible in the olden days ('80s).
(IME, we didn't not eat out more than we did because it wasn't accessible, but because we kids had no choice and my parents had ideas about how often was appropriate, and I think for a higher percentage of the population eating it a lot more often is normalized now. I also think, of course, that if you were a kid at one time and an adult now, then everything is of course more accessible, but that's not because the '80s were somehow lacking for fast convenient foods.)There's no real barrier against adding extra meals to the day. If you have breakfast and you go to work and there's breakfast there, you eat it. If you eat lunch and later there's pizza in the break room, you eat it. If you're hungry on the way home from work, you might swing by Taco Bell before dinner.
It's the normalization of all day hunger and all day eating.
I'm sure there were people doing this in the 80s too, but I get the sense that it's all much more normal now.
I strongly agree with this.
I agree too!! It is considered SUPER normal. Absolutely. I know a lot of families that grab breakfast, lunch, and dinner out multiple times a week and it's just how they live all of the time. Me and my husband cook most of the time and eat 3 meals at home and I know my coworkers find that so bizarre for a married couple without kids. Most of them who are married w/o kids or empty nesters get takeout every night or close to it...grab fast food breakfast or grab n' go from c-stores every morning. It's "normal" now.
My family was one of the only ones I knew of in the 80s/early 90s that REGULARLY dined out. For us, fast food and sit-down restaurant meals were a common occurrence - a couple of times weekly at LEAST - quite similar to today's habits of many families. But I knew back then that most of my friends were NOT going out that much or getting pizza delivered every Friday night, etc. I see threads here (similar to this one) where people around my age (44) say they only dined out for birthdays or very special occasions. I think that was more likely in the 80s than now.
I also think there's way more drinking calories today, kids as young as elementary school are into Starbucks frappuccinos and such...and from the kids/teens I know, they get those WAY more than we would have (for example) gotten ice cream. I also think drinking sugary soda is more normalized. When I stayed over at friends' houses in the 80s they drank water or milk with their meals. I was used to drinking Diet Pepsi or Dr. Pepper with my meals and that was considered super-weird to most of my friends, even when I was a teen. I don't think it would be as surprising now.7 -
seltzermint555 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Speakeasy76 wrote: »I sign on to what snowflake and Ann said, among others, but to elaborate:Speakeasy76 wrote: »I've been thinking about this post and why is it that we continue to get fatter as a country (and other countries as well), despite not only knowing more than ever about health, weight loss and exercise, but in general having a lot more access to these resources as well.
I don't think people ate "healthier" foods back in the 80's and before then more so than now, as what was considered healthy has changed over the years (and continues to change). People were just as weight/image conscious in the past (if not more so), so obsession with how we look and how big or small we are is nothing new. However, I think 1. Portion sizes have grown over the years; 2.Access to foods, especially convenience foods and take-out/fast food has increased dramatically; 3. Snacking, and especially mindless snacking seems to have grown (although I definitely remember having snacks regularly as a kid in the 80's and 4. Way more stationary activities take up our time, like TV (so many ways/things to watch now), computer and video games and 5. Driving to more places as the suburban sprawl continues to happen.
Access to delivery has likely changed, and a lot more restaurants (with a much higher variety of food) do take-out, but I doubt "access" has changed for most people. Fast food was certainly completely accessible from what I recall of my childhood (I was 10 in 1980). Convenience foods were also incredibly accessible, as were snack and dessert type foods, although the variety of those was likely much less (although also there were fewer lower cal options) and across the board I would agree that portion sizes were smaller.
When I was a kid we had fast food (which was seen as mostly for kids in my memory) rarely, as a special treat. The kids meals were not yet including the fruit instead of fries options, though. We didn't have soda at home (my mom had diet soda, but the kids weren't given soda as a regular drink--it was rare, like if we went out to eat or to McD's). Going to other types of restaurants was mostly something my parents did, although occasionally we'd go out to a kid appropriate place as a family. When my parents went out we'd get to have TV dinners, but this was also much rarer than I think people tend to go out today.
Regular meals may well have included some convenience foods (I hated cold cereal, but it was a common breakfast), and my mom would use canned veg and stuff like that, and canned soup was something we'd have for lunch, but dinners were normally meat, veg, and a starch (corn and potatoes were a starch, not a veg), and was generally largely homecooked from scratch. We had snacks after school, but that was about it, and we didn't have a bunch of candy or dessert type foods around the house -- we'd sometimes have cookies if my mom made them, and my dad likely Jell-O puddings for after dinner dessert.
I get the impression that on average (although obv not the case for all, most of the parents I know are likely more health knowledgeable and conscious than my parents, and also have lots more access to a wide variety of healthy foods, but that's a combination of changing food culture and that I didn't grow up in a big city and live in one now), people cook less these days and know less about cooking. My mom didn't really like cooking that much, but did so regularly, and my sister and I would sometimes cook with her and were encouraged to cook. (My mom also had a full time job from the time I was 8 and my sister 3.) So when I was an adult, that pattern of eating which was basically healthy (although could certainly be too many cals) seemed natural to me. From stats about veg eating in the US and simply some of the comments we get from newbies on MFP, I don't think that's as common now.
TV was watched plenty from what I recall, and cable came in by the mid 80s, but yes, we didn't have computer stuff like now (even computer games were extremely rudimentary and likely much less common). We would play outdoors, but I suspect that too is widely varying now based on location and parents. Little kids are likely less likely to be told to just go out and play where I am now (city), but in the 'burbs or more rural areas I think they may be, and even where I am now I see my neighbors kids biking around and playing very actively in the yard -- it's been interesting to see what they have done during the shut down, and they also endlessly get balls in my yard, although not so much now when it's super cold. I also see lots of organized kids sporting activities and know from friends that many kids participate in them, and that starts with places for active play when kids are little. So again, I think it varies a lot, but not that kids are inherently more sedentary now. (I would sit and read endlessly as a kid and yet was not fat.)
Regular life probably requires less activity now, but again that seems to vary by place. My parents both exercised by choice (my dad was into running and biking, my mom liked to walk and do any kind of dancing related exercise and aerobics), but on average I think that's likely even more popular (not aerobics, but exercising by choice) now in some ways. My parents also both drove to work and I took a bus that required only a short walk. Now I walk much farther than any of us did (or did pre coronavirus) to do errands and, especially, to commute, but I realize most parts of the US then and now are car-focused.
The biggest differences I see are (1) portions, (2) more choice/better tasting convenience options, (3) more of a culture of just snacking all day or thinking that's necessary or simple mindless eating since food is always aaround, and (4) fewer people being comfortable cooking or having a routine of having meals that are overall nutritious (i.e., that not having a veg should be a rare thing, not that vegetables are optional). But of course that's all biased by my own personal experiences and observances.
I think another thing that may or not contribute is that more women work outside of the home, and therefore families may be eating more takeout or quick meals out of convenience.
I'm not so sure, as as I said my mom worked full time from when I was 8 and my sister 3 (1978). Most of my neighbors (whose kids are active and not overweight) work full time and yet are more nutrition conscious and foodie than my mom was--and they are in a bigger city with a food culture and better off class-wise, and more educated. I think there's more to it than women working.I have 2 young kids, 9 and 11, and I know that even though organized sports are WAY more popular than when I was a kid in the 80's (as in there are more options and practices are more frequent), I think overall kids are more sedentary outside of those activities. Video games and social media are huge, especially as they get into the pre-teen and teenage years. Video games are just so much more graphically better than they used to be, so more enticing. Also, there are lot more options for not only what to watch on TV but WHERE to watch it.
Yes, I think this is possible, although as noted I was way more into reading than running around outside as a kid and yet was not overweight.I grew up in family where meals were like yours--my mom cooked every night (she didn't work outside the home), and it was a treat to get fast food for a family of 6. Even though we lived in the suburb of a mid-large size city, there was only a McDonald's nearby. Now by my parent's old house there are probably at least 15 fast food/convenience food options!
This is not consistent with what I see. We had McD's and BK in walking distance, and a Wendy's between my parents work and my home, as well as various other fast food (I liked Long John Silvers the best as a kid). In a big city now I have a McD's within walking distance and others in an easy drive but normally drive way less (and a lower percentage of the population here has a car). I don't think less access to fast food in the '80s is really a thing in most of the country, it seems pretty similar to me.
Anecdotally, the difference I see is that when I went to McDonald's as a kid, it was for an actual planned meal. It seems more common now to just get food because you just want it, not necessarily as part of a meal.
That's interesting, and as it is something I've never really noticed people doing (well, not fast food, like a burger and/or fries, which I'm a little surprised people would eat between meals, but I believe it -- definitely snacks, however, like a high cal latte or a cookie or something, at a Starbucks or the like, or a bagel in the breakroom in the morning or a bag of chips from a stash kept in the office kitchen or some such). I didn't think of that in relation to the FF thing, but I bet you are right. I wonder if that's why fast food may seem to some to have been less accessible in the olden days ('80s).
(IME, we didn't not eat out more than we did because it wasn't accessible, but because we kids had no choice and my parents had ideas about how often was appropriate, and I think for a higher percentage of the population eating it a lot more often is normalized now. I also think, of course, that if you were a kid at one time and an adult now, then everything is of course more accessible, but that's not because the '80s were somehow lacking for fast convenient foods.)There's no real barrier against adding extra meals to the day. If you have breakfast and you go to work and there's breakfast there, you eat it. If you eat lunch and later there's pizza in the break room, you eat it. If you're hungry on the way home from work, you might swing by Taco Bell before dinner.
It's the normalization of all day hunger and all day eating.
I'm sure there were people doing this in the 80s too, but I get the sense that it's all much more normal now.
I strongly agree with this.
I agree too!! It is considered SUPER normal. Absolutely. I know a lot of families that grab breakfast, lunch, and dinner out multiple times a week and it's just how they live all of the time. Me and my husband cook most of the time and eat 3 meals at home and I know my coworkers find that so bizarre for a married couple without kids. Most of them who are married w/o kids or empty nesters get takeout every night or close to it...grab fast food breakfast or grab n' go from c-stores every morning. It's "normal" now.
My family was one of the only ones I knew of in the 80s/early 90s that REGULARLY dined out. For us, fast food and sit-down restaurant meals were a common occurrence - a couple of times weekly at LEAST - quite similar to today's habits of many families. But I knew back then that most of my friends were NOT going out that much or getting pizza delivered every Friday night, etc. I see threads here (similar to this one) where people around my age (44) say they only dined out for birthdays or very special occasions. I think that was more likely in the 80s than now.
I also think there's way more drinking calories today, kids as young as elementary school are into Starbucks frappuccinos and such...and from the kids/teens I know, they get those WAY more than we would have (for example) gotten ice cream. I also think drinking sugary soda is more normalized. When I stayed over at friends' houses in the 80s they drank water or milk with their meals. I was used to drinking Diet Pepsi or Dr. Pepper with my meals and that was considered super-weird to most of my friends, even when I was a teen. I don't think it would be as surprising now.
Yeah, totally agree. I'm 51, so older than you, but what you say is consistent with my experience and that of my sister (who is 45). Not only was dining out rare, but we had a small glass of juice in the morning, milk with lunch and dinner (2%), and soda was rare. My parents had water with dinner (or my dad had milk), and my mom drank a soda (diet pepsi) per day, after dinner. Both of my parents drank coffee black, but even if one drank it with some sugar or milk it would have been way less cals than many of the popular Starbucks drinks now. Kids (at least pre high school, often late high school) drinking much soda was unusual, and we had a lot less juice, even. When I was babysitting juice boxes were starting to be a thing, and so was snacking in school.
I also think the idea that it's unacceptable to be at all hungry is a weird current thing, and I (admittedly as my own pet peeve) blame the diet culture "one must eat every 3 hours to avoid being hungry" thing for that in part. When I was a kid one ate at meals or a planned snack and if I whined about being hungry before my mom would offer an apple (see ksharma's post above) or some carrot sticks or dismiss my complained about hunger as in the mind and tell me dinner would be soon enough, and I was really not traumatized by this.6 -
seltzermint555 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Speakeasy76 wrote: »I sign on to what snowflake and Ann said, among others, but to elaborate:Speakeasy76 wrote: »I've been thinking about this post and why is it that we continue to get fatter as a country (and other countries as well), despite not only knowing more than ever about health, weight loss and exercise, but in general having a lot more access to these resources as well.
I don't think people ate "healthier" foods back in the 80's and before then more so than now, as what was considered healthy has changed over the years (and continues to change). People were just as weight/image conscious in the past (if not more so), so obsession with how we look and how big or small we are is nothing new. However, I think 1. Portion sizes have grown over the years; 2.Access to foods, especially convenience foods and take-out/fast food has increased dramatically; 3. Snacking, and especially mindless snacking seems to have grown (although I definitely remember having snacks regularly as a kid in the 80's and 4. Way more stationary activities take up our time, like TV (so many ways/things to watch now), computer and video games and 5. Driving to more places as the suburban sprawl continues to happen.
Access to delivery has likely changed, and a lot more restaurants (with a much higher variety of food) do take-out, but I doubt "access" has changed for most people. Fast food was certainly completely accessible from what I recall of my childhood (I was 10 in 1980). Convenience foods were also incredibly accessible, as were snack and dessert type foods, although the variety of those was likely much less (although also there were fewer lower cal options) and across the board I would agree that portion sizes were smaller.
When I was a kid we had fast food (which was seen as mostly for kids in my memory) rarely, as a special treat. The kids meals were not yet including the fruit instead of fries options, though. We didn't have soda at home (my mom had diet soda, but the kids weren't given soda as a regular drink--it was rare, like if we went out to eat or to McD's). Going to other types of restaurants was mostly something my parents did, although occasionally we'd go out to a kid appropriate place as a family. When my parents went out we'd get to have TV dinners, but this was also much rarer than I think people tend to go out today.
Regular meals may well have included some convenience foods (I hated cold cereal, but it was a common breakfast), and my mom would use canned veg and stuff like that, and canned soup was something we'd have for lunch, but dinners were normally meat, veg, and a starch (corn and potatoes were a starch, not a veg), and was generally largely homecooked from scratch. We had snacks after school, but that was about it, and we didn't have a bunch of candy or dessert type foods around the house -- we'd sometimes have cookies if my mom made them, and my dad likely Jell-O puddings for after dinner dessert.
I get the impression that on average (although obv not the case for all, most of the parents I know are likely more health knowledgeable and conscious than my parents, and also have lots more access to a wide variety of healthy foods, but that's a combination of changing food culture and that I didn't grow up in a big city and live in one now), people cook less these days and know less about cooking. My mom didn't really like cooking that much, but did so regularly, and my sister and I would sometimes cook with her and were encouraged to cook. (My mom also had a full time job from the time I was 8 and my sister 3.) So when I was an adult, that pattern of eating which was basically healthy (although could certainly be too many cals) seemed natural to me. From stats about veg eating in the US and simply some of the comments we get from newbies on MFP, I don't think that's as common now.
TV was watched plenty from what I recall, and cable came in by the mid 80s, but yes, we didn't have computer stuff like now (even computer games were extremely rudimentary and likely much less common). We would play outdoors, but I suspect that too is widely varying now based on location and parents. Little kids are likely less likely to be told to just go out and play where I am now (city), but in the 'burbs or more rural areas I think they may be, and even where I am now I see my neighbors kids biking around and playing very actively in the yard -- it's been interesting to see what they have done during the shut down, and they also endlessly get balls in my yard, although not so much now when it's super cold. I also see lots of organized kids sporting activities and know from friends that many kids participate in them, and that starts with places for active play when kids are little. So again, I think it varies a lot, but not that kids are inherently more sedentary now. (I would sit and read endlessly as a kid and yet was not fat.)
Regular life probably requires less activity now, but again that seems to vary by place. My parents both exercised by choice (my dad was into running and biking, my mom liked to walk and do any kind of dancing related exercise and aerobics), but on average I think that's likely even more popular (not aerobics, but exercising by choice) now in some ways. My parents also both drove to work and I took a bus that required only a short walk. Now I walk much farther than any of us did (or did pre coronavirus) to do errands and, especially, to commute, but I realize most parts of the US then and now are car-focused.
The biggest differences I see are (1) portions, (2) more choice/better tasting convenience options, (3) more of a culture of just snacking all day or thinking that's necessary or simple mindless eating since food is always aaround, and (4) fewer people being comfortable cooking or having a routine of having meals that are overall nutritious (i.e., that not having a veg should be a rare thing, not that vegetables are optional). But of course that's all biased by my own personal experiences and observances.
I think another thing that may or not contribute is that more women work outside of the home, and therefore families may be eating more takeout or quick meals out of convenience.
I'm not so sure, as as I said my mom worked full time from when I was 8 and my sister 3 (1978). Most of my neighbors (whose kids are active and not overweight) work full time and yet are more nutrition conscious and foodie than my mom was--and they are in a bigger city with a food culture and better off class-wise, and more educated. I think there's more to it than women working.I have 2 young kids, 9 and 11, and I know that even though organized sports are WAY more popular than when I was a kid in the 80's (as in there are more options and practices are more frequent), I think overall kids are more sedentary outside of those activities. Video games and social media are huge, especially as they get into the pre-teen and teenage years. Video games are just so much more graphically better than they used to be, so more enticing. Also, there are lot more options for not only what to watch on TV but WHERE to watch it.
Yes, I think this is possible, although as noted I was way more into reading than running around outside as a kid and yet was not overweight.I grew up in family where meals were like yours--my mom cooked every night (she didn't work outside the home), and it was a treat to get fast food for a family of 6. Even though we lived in the suburb of a mid-large size city, there was only a McDonald's nearby. Now by my parent's old house there are probably at least 15 fast food/convenience food options!
This is not consistent with what I see. We had McD's and BK in walking distance, and a Wendy's between my parents work and my home, as well as various other fast food (I liked Long John Silvers the best as a kid). In a big city now I have a McD's within walking distance and others in an easy drive but normally drive way less (and a lower percentage of the population here has a car). I don't think less access to fast food in the '80s is really a thing in most of the country, it seems pretty similar to me.
Anecdotally, the difference I see is that when I went to McDonald's as a kid, it was for an actual planned meal. It seems more common now to just get food because you just want it, not necessarily as part of a meal.
That's interesting, and as it is something I've never really noticed people doing (well, not fast food, like a burger and/or fries, which I'm a little surprised people would eat between meals, but I believe it -- definitely snacks, however, like a high cal latte or a cookie or something, at a Starbucks or the like, or a bagel in the breakroom in the morning or a bag of chips from a stash kept in the office kitchen or some such). I didn't think of that in relation to the FF thing, but I bet you are right. I wonder if that's why fast food may seem to some to have been less accessible in the olden days ('80s).
(IME, we didn't not eat out more than we did because it wasn't accessible, but because we kids had no choice and my parents had ideas about how often was appropriate, and I think for a higher percentage of the population eating it a lot more often is normalized now. I also think, of course, that if you were a kid at one time and an adult now, then everything is of course more accessible, but that's not because the '80s were somehow lacking for fast convenient foods.)There's no real barrier against adding extra meals to the day. If you have breakfast and you go to work and there's breakfast there, you eat it. If you eat lunch and later there's pizza in the break room, you eat it. If you're hungry on the way home from work, you might swing by Taco Bell before dinner.
It's the normalization of all day hunger and all day eating.
I'm sure there were people doing this in the 80s too, but I get the sense that it's all much more normal now.
I strongly agree with this.
I agree too!! It is considered SUPER normal. Absolutely. I know a lot of families that grab breakfast, lunch, and dinner out multiple times a week and it's just how they live all of the time. Me and my husband cook most of the time and eat 3 meals at home and I know my coworkers find that so bizarre for a married couple without kids. Most of them who are married w/o kids or empty nesters get takeout every night or close to it...grab fast food breakfast or grab n' go from c-stores every morning. It's "normal" now.
My family was one of the only ones I knew of in the 80s/early 90s that REGULARLY dined out. For us, fast food and sit-down restaurant meals were a common occurrence - a couple of times weekly at LEAST - quite similar to today's habits of many families. But I knew back then that most of my friends were NOT going out that much or getting pizza delivered every Friday night, etc. I see threads here (similar to this one) where people around my age (44) say they only dined out for birthdays or very special occasions. I think that was more likely in the 80s than now.
I also think there's way more drinking calories today, kids as young as elementary school are into Starbucks frappuccinos and such...and from the kids/teens I know, they get those WAY more than we would have (for example) gotten ice cream. I also think drinking sugary soda is more normalized. When I stayed over at friends' houses in the 80s they drank water or milk with their meals. I was used to drinking Diet Pepsi or Dr. Pepper with my meals and that was considered super-weird to most of my friends, even when I was a teen. I don't think it would be as surprising now.
Yeah, totally agree. I'm 51, so older than you, but what you say is consistent with my experience and that of my sister (who is 45). Not only was dining out rare, but we had a small glass of juice in the morning, milk with lunch and dinner (2%), and soda was rare. My parents had water with dinner (or my dad had milk), and my mom drank a soda (diet pepsi) per day, after dinner. Both of my parents drank coffee black, but even if one drank it with some sugar or milk it would have been way less cals than many of the popular Starbucks drinks now. Kids (at least pre high school, often late high school) drinking much soda was unusual, and we had a lot less juice, even. When I was babysitting juice boxes were starting to be a thing, and so was snacking in school.
I also think the idea that it's unacceptable to be at all hungry is a weird current thing, and I (admittedly as my own pet peeve) blame the diet culture "one must eat every 3 hours to avoid being hungry" thing for that in part. When I was a kid one ate at meals or a planned snack and if I whined about being hungry before my mom would offer an apple (see ksharma's post above) or some carrot sticks or dismiss my complained about hunger as in the mind and tell me dinner would be soon enough, and I was really not traumatized by this.
When I was a kid we always had a container of cut up carrots and celery in the fridge. If we were hungry between meals, that was what we ate. There simply was no other option unless we were watching TV at night, when my dad would sometimes bring out pretzels and we could have those.
My sisters are doing the same thing with their boys now (sometimes adding some sliced fruit).
I think it's very useful to be okay with between-meal hunger and to understand the difference between "I want some snacks" and "I'm hungry enough to eat some carrots."7 -
We just had to go further to do more More walking, more biking. I biked or walked to school everyday and was so healthy....with the internet and so much more at arm's reach now, it's easier to just not go out anymore. People have to intentionally exercise more to get fit. That's what I see here in the US, but I grew up in Asia...people are still much more slimmer than people here...possibly the diet and culture? When I go back home, people still eat at home and cook meals from scratch and portion sizes in fast food and restaurants are half of what is offered here in the US. 6
-
We still had physical fitness classes that were mandatory in schools. Fast food most of the time were treats and not regular daily meals. Less commuting (people love to eat in their cars for 1+ commutes). Many still had some physical aspect that they had to do at their jobs. And last................portions were smaller than today.Kaysmile012015 wrote: »I'm old enough to have been adult in the 1980s (even the 1970s, actually): Good grief. No. "People" were not "taut & toned". That's the movies. On average people were thinner, certainly, but "toned" women (in real life) were probably less muscular than nowadays, and probably being "fit" in any rational definition was less common amongst the general population of women compared to now, besides. Most women in the 1980s were not "toned" or fit.I'm old enough to have been adult in the 1980s (even the 1970s, actually): Good grief. No. "People" were not "taut & toned". That's the movies. On average people were thinner, certainly, but "toned" women (in real life) were probably less muscular than nowadays, and probably being "fit" in any rational definition was less common amongst the general population of women compared to now, besides. Most women in the 1980s were not "toned" or fit.
I stated
"Healthy weighted,portioned, fit bodies"
Not saying everyone was" fit", but I observed for the most part, people appeared, average, healthy weight, in general, in real footage clips ect..and in older stuff just kinda seems like people weren't really as Obese ..idk
ALSO
-Im aware of the aerobics trend in the 1980s, that's where I notice alot of taught tone bodies" in older 80s footage; People are saying drugs, but weren't the drugs illegal? Were most and/or "regular "people taking drugs too?
I'm thinking now that many countries think that Americans are rich because being fat in other countries is a sign of having money. Lol and with 65% of our country overweight or obese, they likely think we're loaded.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
2 -
Not to mention BIG HAIR made you look smaller.
Actually if you know anything about movies, those thin chicks probably weighed 110lbs or less. The 80's were notorious for forcing females to lose a certain amount of weight to be presentable in dance, theatre and movies.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition 6 -
Incidentally Aerobicize only came on at night on Showtime because it was considered a little to "sexual" to show on Primetime TV. Go to 5:00 mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trhK6CprqVY
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition 1 -
Kaysmile012015 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Kaysmile012015 wrote: »I'm watching a movie from the 80s and it's unreal how taught & toned these women look in bikinis, I've noticed this in other movies, clips and footage from decades of 80s and beyond, people most had healthy weighted,portioned, fit bodies, Why? How?
People in movies look like that now too...they're movies.
im aware that movies put the best looking on screen but it's not just movies..I'v noticed it in real footage..documentaries..old clips etc.
It's pretty well documented that obesity has exploded over the last few decades...that's why it's referred to as an epidemic.
I can only speak anecdotally to my experience...When I was growing up, we didn't eat out all that much...maybe a couple of times per month, usually on a Sunday after church. Eating fast food was uncommon...McDonalds was always a huge treat. Most meals were made at home and we had three meals per day with little to no snacking. If we had a snack, it was usually an apple or some grapes or something. We didn't have soda stockpiled in the house...I usually only had a soda when we were eating out or occasionally I'd grab one from the little corner store when I was walking my paper route if I had a little spare change in my pocket. I mostly drank water or milk...orange juice was strictly for Saturday mornings. My parents mostly drank iced tea or water.
We were pretty recreationally active as a family. We went on walks most evenings after dinner and I walked to and from school. My parents played tennis pretty much every Saturday and many Sundays were spent at the lake swimming, canoeing, playing on the playground, etc. Both of my parents had desk jobs, but even a desk job back then required moving more than it does today.
This was my family, but I recall most people we knew were similar. In a nut shell, I believe eating out has gone from being an occasion for many back in the day to being more common than not today. I know people who literally eat out for every meal, everyday. I believe the consumption of fast food is far more prevalent today than it used to be. Overall, it seems many people have this need to put something in their pie hole all day long these days and never allow themselves to actually be hungry. People load up their pantries with cases of soda and other "junk" food and sit around a lot more with a gazillion channels on satellite or playing on the internet.
Maybe it was just where I lived, but I remember families just being out and recreating more than I see today. Tennis courts were always full...basketball courts were always full...the lake was always packed with people, etc. It also seemed like the pace of life was just slower and less frenzied and busy...my dad was in an executive position and he worked pretty much 8-5...that same position when he retired meant a good 60-80 hours per week working and travel. When I was a kid, he had plenty of time after work to meet up with the guys after work for a quick 9 hole or a few rounds of tennis...by the time he retired, there just wasn't time for that.
TL/DR: People eat a lot more these days, and move a lot less.6 -
Plus, many of that era's diets -even those recommended by doctors - were very low calorie. I remember my mum consulting a bariatric doc who recommended a 500 calorie diet. My mum wasn't morbidly obese - merely overweight. I also remember seeing lots of 500-1000 calorie diets in every women's magazine. Now people lose their minds at mention of a 1200 calorie limit.
Also, clothing wasn't as fat-friendly as now. There was no stretch denim or anything even vaguely resembling fashionable clothing in extended sizes. Remember 5-7-9 stores? Imagine those existing today!6 -
We still had physical fitness classes that were mandatory in schools. Fast food most of the time were treats and not regular daily meals. Less commuting (people love to eat in their cars for 1+ commutes). Many still had some physical aspect that they had to do at their jobs. And last................portions were smaller than today.Kaysmile012015 wrote: »I'm old enough to have been adult in the 1980s (even the 1970s, actually): Good grief. No. "People" were not "taut & toned". That's the movies. On average people were thinner, certainly, but "toned" women (in real life) were probably less muscular than nowadays, and probably being "fit" in any rational definition was less common amongst the general population of women compared to now, besides. Most women in the 1980s were not "toned" or fit.I'm old enough to have been adult in the 1980s (even the 1970s, actually): Good grief. No. "People" were not "taut & toned". That's the movies. On average people were thinner, certainly, but "toned" women (in real life) were probably less muscular than nowadays, and probably being "fit" in any rational definition was less common amongst the general population of women compared to now, besides. Most women in the 1980s were not "toned" or fit.
I stated
"Healthy weighted,portioned, fit bodies"
Not saying everyone was" fit", but I observed for the most part, people appeared, average, healthy weight, in general, in real footage clips ect..and in older stuff just kinda seems like people weren't really as Obese ..idk
ALSO
-Im aware of the aerobics trend in the 1980s, that's where I notice alot of taught tone bodies" in older 80s footage; People are saying drugs, but weren't the drugs illegal? Were most and/or "regular "people taking drugs too?
I'm thinking now that many countries think that Americans are rich because being fat in other countries is a sign of having money. Lol and with 65% of our country overweight or obese, they likely think we're loaded.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
This just made me realize how much more sedentary my job is now that I sit in front of a computer, although it's always been an office job. I used to walk to a coworker's office to show them something, now I attach it to an email. So much more of my job is now derived from some aspect of the computer that I get up and move way less.
I can see the all-day snacking aspect as well. I sit fairly close to the microwave and when the office is at full staff, that thing is in steady use, even at non-standard meal times.3 -
Partly Fen-phen, my mom and all her friends were on it. By the 80's, fast food was everywhere, junk food was everywhere and rushed parents were nuking frozen chicken nuggets and making boxed mac n cheese for their kids on a nearly daily basis. At least, that was the situation where I grew up. Adults in the 80's had access to diet drugs since pulled from the market. Kids in the 80's were fat. I was a 240 lb 14 year old and I wasn't even in the top ten of the biggest ones at the local high school.
I'm curious how the increase in obesity compares to socioeconomic changes? My husband and I live in what is considered a lower cost of living area. Trying to eat healthy costs our family of 3 $180 or so per week. We portion out every meal, I make things in bulk to save money. But, eating meat and veggies for most meals is prohibitively expensive when you are also trying to cover things like rent and transportation and insurance.
We earn more than the median for our area- I have to imagine that people earning $10k less than us per year still have the same cost for rent and transportation that we do. The only place to save is on the grocery budget. There are a lot of families in my area living on cheap bread, processed cheese and boxed macaroni because that's all there is budget for.
School lunch where I'm at is pizza most days of the week. Kids will sometimes intentionally fail their courses so that they have to take summer school. Why? Because that way they get fed. A lot of those kids who go to bed hungry still manage to be fat. The whole situation is so depressing that I moved out of nonprofit work for my own sanity.
9 -
I was in college in the 80s and a size 16 woman measured : bust=38", waist=30", hips=40". You were ridiculed and called fat if you were that size. I remember that Marilyn Monroe was called a size 16 which makes a 1950s size 16, 36" hips.
Growing up in the 1960s. we didn't eat out. Food was made from scratch with precious few processed items. We ate out of our gardens each year and canned the excess produce for the winter. We played outside until it was dark and had gym and recesses built into our school days. Soda pop came in 8 oz. bottles and there was very little artificial sweetener and fast food around. The tv remote was a luxury item and color tv was slowly spreading in my area. If you went to McDonald's, an adult meal was a hamburger, small fries and a 12 oz. drink. A Big Mac was considered enormous. I could count the number of obese children on one hand(myself being one) in my school. People worked more physical jobs and also worked harder to maintain their homes. There was less self propelled lawnmowers, snowblowers, leaf blowers and few microwaves around. Vacuum cleaners were not light weight either and some people were still hanging their clothes outside on clotheslines. Jack Lalane was the pre-eminent fitness guru on television.7 -
jenniferinfl wrote: »Partly Fen-phen, my mom and all her friends were on it. By the 80's, fast food was everywhere, junk food was everywhere and rushed parents were nuking frozen chicken nuggets and making boxed mac n cheese for their kids on a nearly daily basis. At least, that was the situation where I grew up. Adults in the 80's had access to diet drugs since pulled from the market. Kids in the 80's were fat. I was a 240 lb 14 year old and I wasn't even in the top ten of the biggest ones at the local high school.
I'm not so sure. I don't recall fen-phen being a thing 'til later, and wiki seems to back me up: "Fenfluramine as a single drug was first introduced in the 1970s, but was not popular because it only temporarily reduced weight. A 1984 study found a weight loss of 7.5 kg on average in 24 weeks, as compared to 4.4 kg under placebo. It sold modestly until the 1990s, when it was combined with phentermine and heavily marketed."
Also, I was 10-19 in the '80s, and I was average weight and thought I was fat. Tight jeans were popular, girls thought they were failures for not having flat stomachs, and I recall very few (usually one or two a year) fat kids, and fat then was less than fat now. I had a couple of obese teachers, and my mom struggled with being overweight (not obese) and was always on a diet. Being overweight wasn't that uncommon among adults, but extremely so among children in my recollection.
I was middle class (although my parents were open enough about being financially insecure due to various reasons that I worried about money all the time), my school was middle to lower middle class. I do agree there's a socio-economic component to weight in the US (in my social circle, which is mostly professional types, being fat has been IME quite rare even in the 21st C, although I managed, when I visited my parents it was common where I grew up). I don't think it's cost of food, however, as both meat and veg are much cheaper in general vs when/where I grew up in the '80s (let alone as a percentage of salary in years prior to that), and buying more food/restaurant food is inherently more expensive than home cooking. Food has on average gotten cheaper and cheaper in the US over time.
I'm in a school district where the vast majority of kids are in poverty and get free breakfast and lunch (and anyone can since the percentage is so high). They've made sure to still provide that while not providing in person learning since last March. Yet they've also been working hard to have better nutrition in meals the kids will still eat (picking up on Michelle Obama's efforts back 10+ years ago). Many of the closer elementary schools have garden projects and such (elementary schools here are more income diverse than the school district as a whole, but I have heard about such things in poorer areas too).3 -
Maybe we were skinnier back then, but I don't think we ate healthier. (I was born in 1965 and joke I was raised on second hand smoke, hot dogs and blistering sun burns.) When I was a kid my mom thought hot dogs was a nutritious meal for kids, "mac and cheese" and "scalloped potatoes" came out of a box, vegetables were frozen corn and peas, breakfast was boxed cereal loaded with sugar, cheese was those processed slices (I never knew there was another kind!), white bread only, and we ate chips and pop for snacks. I think maybe I ate the occasional apple? And gallons of milk for some reason. Yeah my mom went big on the processed food train as soon as it was available. Wonder why I suffered from chronic constipation my entire childhood. I was skinny though.5
-
Maybe we were skinnier back then, but I don't think we ate healthier. (I was born in 1965 and joke I was raised on second hand smoke, hot dogs and blistering sun burns.) When I was a kid my mom thought hot dogs was a nutritious meal for kids, "mac and cheese" and "scalloped potatoes" came out of a box, vegetables were frozen corn and peas, breakfast was boxed cereal loaded with sugar, cheese was those processed slices (I never knew there was another kind!), white bread only, and we ate chips and pop for snacks. I think maybe I ate the occasional apple? And gallons of milk for some reason. Yeah my mom went big on the processed food train as soon as it was available. Wonder why I suffered from chronic constipation my entire childhood. I was skinny though.
Yes, exactly! I feel my family evolved, though, and definitely served more nutritious foods as we got older. We did get a salad with actual romaine lettuce and a variety of fresh vegetables at almost every meal. However, my husband's parents still pretty much eat this way. My parents haven't really struggled with weight, even though my dad was a bit heavier at times he carried it well and didn't have the potbelly that older men seem to get. My husband's parents are even skinnier than mine (his dad especially), but they have problems like high cholesterol and high blood pressure.2 -
TV and Movies has always generally shown whatever the standard of beauty is of the day. It is interesting to note that the women of the 50-60s had a softer, rounder look in general. (In Mad Men the actresses were asked to discontinue exercise programs in order to achieve this look.) In the 1970s the "Twiggy" look was in (thin). In the 1980s came the more athletic look -- women were more muscular (although still thin) with the advent of aerobics.
In the past, obesity was not so widespread. Yes, there were always people with weight issues in modern times. Usually it is attributed to:
* Lack of exercise. In the past, kids played more and more outside. Recreation was more things like jump rope, riding bikes, playing in the woods, games of hide and go seek. Kids actually organized their own neighborhood sports of baseball, stickball, ice hockey or whatever. (Peanuts was not making that up). TV was limited...afternoon and Saturday morning cartoons. After that, kids got bored and often went outside to look for fun. Kids also tended to walk to school and back more. Adults also tended to walk more--before the explosion of suburbs most people lived either in denser urban areas and walked to work (or public transit) or in the country, where farm work was farm work. People often worked more physically too. Lumberjacks used to use axes to fell trees and were incredibly physical; now machinery does most of the work and I've seen obese loggers.
*Food. Fast food and take out were less widespread. Restaurants for most people were a once in a while indulgence. Most people ate at home. The grocery stores did not have as much prepared and ultra processed food. (Your small family market might have one brand of potato chips, soda, ice cream, and three types of breakfast cereal!) Most people had no option to swing by McDonald's for lunch break -- you made a sandwich and/or a thermos of soup brought it to work. There's also issues of sweeteners, fat content, portion sizes and more.
The answer is complicated, but in general, we eat too much and often a lot of crappy unhealthy food. We don't move enough.3 -
They don’t look fitter to me, just skinny.
Fast food was a rarity growing up for me as an 80s baby. We never had soda or treats on the house except for birthday parties. My parents fed us home cooked, healthy food although I was still a bit chubby due to the rule that I have to finish everything on my plate even if I was already full.
We played outside a lot. Growing up we only had one car so we walked to the grocery store and many other places. People too day are a lot more sedentary.
3
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 426 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions