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Do you think obese/overweight people should pay more for health insurance?

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  • lemurcat2lemurcat2 Member Posts: 7,571 Member Member Posts: 7,571 Member
    autobahn66 wrote: »
    For my whole childhood I watch ads for foods which should, by all rights not exist, never mind be fed to children.

    I don’t know if this was the case where you live, but I remember when Nutella was advertised here in the US as a healthy breakfast choice for children.

    I mean, sure. Nutella is delicious. But it’s not exactly a healthy breakfast option. It’s a treat. And should never have been allowed to be advertised as anything otherwise.

    Interesting--I find many people I know in the US have never tried nutella (I haven't), and I've never seen an ad for it. I mostly know of it from Europeans, although it's not a surprising thing to find on the menu as part of some dish in a brunch restaurant (there's a Nutella Cafe here, although I've never been). Never heard it advertised as a "healthy breakfast," so googled and found this: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nutella-health-claims-net-305-million-settlement-in-class-action-lawsuit/

    Have to admit I agree with this: https://slate.com/human-interest/2011/08/nutella-lawsuit-why-it-s-bunk.html
  • MargaretYakodaMargaretYakoda Member, Premium Posts: 1,665 Member Member, Premium Posts: 1,665 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    autobahn66 wrote: »
    For my whole childhood I watch ads for foods which should, by all rights not exist, never mind be fed to children.

    I don’t know if this was the case where you live, but I remember when Nutella was advertised here in the US as a healthy breakfast choice for children.

    I mean, sure. Nutella is delicious. But it’s not exactly a healthy breakfast option. It’s a treat. And should never have been allowed to be advertised as anything otherwise.

    Interesting--I find many people I know in the US have never tried nutella (I haven't), and I've never seen an ad for it. I mostly know of it from Europeans, although it's not a surprising thing to find on the menu as part of some dish in a brunch restaurant (there's a Nutella Cafe here, although I've never been). Never heard it advertised as a "healthy breakfast," so googled and found this: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nutella-health-claims-net-305-million-settlement-in-class-action-lawsuit/

    Have to admit I agree with this: https://slate.com/human-interest/2011/08/nutella-lawsuit-why-it-s-bunk.html

    It was definitely advertised as “part of a healthy breakfast”
    And ya. People often don’t put much critical thinking into food choices that are advertised at us as “healthy”

    I had an elderly German friend back then who advised me Nutella is a treat, not a fruit. So I didn’t get in the habit of slathering it on anything too thickly.

    In fact, when I worked at a daycare very occasionally we would give it to the school aged kids as their afternoon snack. My boss had purchased it originally thinking it was a healthy choice.

    So, I showed her my trick.
    On butter flavored rice cakes. Spread the Nutella as thinly as you can possibly manage. Sweet, salty, buttery, crunchy. And chocolate.
    It’s absolutely divine that way. And you can make the jar last a very long time.
    edited July 28
  • autobahn66autobahn66 Member, Premium Posts: 39 Member Member, Premium Posts: 39 Member
    autobahn66 wrote: »
    For my whole childhood I watch ads for foods which should, by all rights not exist, never mind be fed to children.

    I don’t know if this was the case where you live, but I remember when Nutella was advertised here in the US as a healthy breakfast choice for children.

    I mean, sure. Nutella is delicious. But it’s not exactly a healthy breakfast option. It’s a treat. And should never have been allowed to be advertised as anything otherwise.

    Oh yes!

    I also remember when they got in trouble with the ASA in the UK for exactly this - they said it has The equivalent of a glass of skimmed milk in every jar. Completely ignoring the fact that there was tons of fat from the nuts and oils. They called it "part of a balanced breakfast". That particular ad got pulled, but the theme of children eating it for breakfast continued on.
  • ninerbuffninerbuff Member, Greeter Posts: 45,642 Member Member, Greeter Posts: 45,642 Member
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    Well because our insurance for health is a FOR PROFIT venture, then YES, they should. The high rates for insurance are because of the high cost of health care in the US. Maybe cap it, but people who DON'T go to the hospital or need their insurance much because they take care of themselves should have lower rates.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    Some hospitalizations are not avoidable.

    However the 2 highest causes of preventable death (and large contributors to health care costs are smoking and obesity.

    Insurers charge extra for smokers but not obesity?
    No I agree to a point. It's just that some insurance companies are so expensive, that obese patient may NEVER have any due to cost. And if something happens to them anyway, it's still gotta be paid for. As I said, there should be a cap and people who have better health and can prove it, should get LOWER rates overall.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

  • janejellyrolljanejellyroll Member Posts: 25,873 Member Member Posts: 25,873 Member


    I think the much bigher question our American friends should be pondering is who tricked them to think of healthcare as necessarily insurance based at all.

    I think it would be a huge mistake to assume that the average American likes our health care system, thinks it is the best way to allocate health resources, or that we aren't aware that other countries arrange things differently.
  • janejellyrolljanejellyroll Member Posts: 25,873 Member Member Posts: 25,873 Member
    I'd been thinking about some of the above points recently as I've resumed business travel. When I'm at home and I have the luxury of time to select and prepare my own food, it's now almost effortless to hit my calorie goals. I can bulk up meals with lower calorie vegetables to ensure satiety, I can limit my access to tempting high calorie foods, and I can adjust recipes to lower the calorie count. All of these are much harder to do when I'm on the road. When I'm at home I rarely feel like I'm "on a diet," but when I'm travelling I feel that way most of the time (even though I'm eating to maintain my weight).

    In many ways, one has to eat "abnormally" to maintain a healthy weight because our default food culture is kind of messed up. To a big degree, I think people who lose weight and maintain that loss over time do it because we've found ways to adjust how we eat. I'm sympathetic to the people who say they're overweight even though they eat "normally," because it's the truth. There are people who are overweight because of eating disorders, but there are also plenty of people who aren't. It's just ridiculously easy to autopilot your way through the day and eat way more than you need. And in some contexts -- lack of time, lack of food prep skills/space, or lack of money -- it is very hard to alter your calorie intake in a way that is sustainable.

    Try eating out as a diabetic! It’s even worse. I actually eat out pretty often but only because I time my eating to my runs so that I can consume amounts of carbs which would swamp me on a non-run day. There are a handful of local restaurants which provide low-calorie, reasonable food which fits into my diet, and all of them are run by people born in countries other than the US.

    I’m a self-employed introvert. If I had a more active social life which regularly required me to eat out at restaurants picked by others, maintaining my weight and blood glucose would become an exercise in self-denial - I would have to learn to sit and watch others eat while not partaking.

    Absolutely -- for everything I stated, it's even harder if you have diabetes or are dealing with something like a gluten intolerance or an allergy.
  • lemurcat2lemurcat2 Member Posts: 7,571 Member Member Posts: 7,571 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    autobahn66 wrote: »
    For my whole childhood I watch ads for foods which should, by all rights not exist, never mind be fed to children.

    I don’t know if this was the case where you live, but I remember when Nutella was advertised here in the US as a healthy breakfast choice for children.

    I mean, sure. Nutella is delicious. But it’s not exactly a healthy breakfast option. It’s a treat. And should never have been allowed to be advertised as anything otherwise.

    Interesting--I find many people I know in the US have never tried nutella (I haven't), and I've never seen an ad for it. I mostly know of it from Europeans, although it's not a surprising thing to find on the menu as part of some dish in a brunch restaurant (there's a Nutella Cafe here, although I've never been). Never heard it advertised as a "healthy breakfast," so googled and found this: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nutella-health-claims-net-305-million-settlement-in-class-action-lawsuit/

    Have to admit I agree with this: https://slate.com/human-interest/2011/08/nutella-lawsuit-why-it-s-bunk.html

    It was definitely advertised as “part of a healthy breakfast”

    Yes, the link I included about the silly lawsuit said as much, although it also said it was shown as part of a breakfast that actually would have been fine.

    For some reason, I've never had a huge interest in trying it.
  • daniellgeyerdaniellgeyer Member Posts: 2 Member Member Posts: 2 Member
    autobahn66 wrote: »
    For my whole childhood I watch ads for foods which should, by all rights not exist, never mind be fed to children.

    I don’t know if this was the case where you live, but I remember when Nutella was advertised here in the US as a healthy breakfast choice for children.

    I mean, sure. Nutella is delicious. But it’s not exactly a healthy breakfast option. It’s a treat. And should never have been allowed to be advertised as anything otherwise.

    I agree. Nutella is hazelnut flavored frosting. It IS delicious - just like most frosting is. But it is dessert. If you want to eat dessert for breakfast, go for it - but just call it what it is.
  • glassyoglassyo Member Posts: 5,708 Member Member Posts: 5,708 Member
    autobahn66 wrote: »
    For my whole childhood I watch ads for foods which should, by all rights not exist, never mind be fed to children.

    I don’t know if this was the case where you live, but I remember when Nutella was advertised here in the US as a healthy breakfast choice for children.

    I mean, sure. Nutella is delicious. But it’s not exactly a healthy breakfast option. It’s a treat. And should never have been allowed to be advertised as anything otherwise.

    I agree. Nutella is hazelnut flavored frosting. It IS delicious - just like most frosting is. But it is dessert. If you want to eat dessert for breakfast, go for it - but just call it what it is.

    My coworker has been known to eat bread with caramel drizzled on it for breakfast.

    I like Nutella but I keep forgetting I don't LOVE nutella whenever I buy it. I would much rather have the cookie butter from trader joe's. Which is probably why I rarely buy it. :)
  • Theoldguy1Theoldguy1 Member Posts: 2,084 Member Member Posts: 2,084 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    Well because our insurance for health is a FOR PROFIT venture, then YES, they should. The high rates for insurance are because of the high cost of health care in the US. Maybe cap it, but people who DON'T go to the hospital or need their insurance much because they take care of themselves should have lower rates.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    Some hospitalizations are not avoidable.

    However the 2 highest causes of preventable death (and large contributors to health care costs are smoking and obesity.

    Insurers charge extra for smokers but not obesity?
    No I agree to a point. It's just that some insurance companies are so expensive, that obese patient may NEVER have any due to cost. And if something happens to them anyway, it's still gotta be paid for. As I said, there should be a cap and people who have better health and can prove it, should get LOWER rates overall.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    Same situation as with a smoker unfortunately.
  • panda4153panda4153 Member, Premium Posts: 405 Member Member, Premium Posts: 405 Member
    autobahn66 wrote: »
    For my whole childhood I watch ads for foods which should, by all rights not exist, never mind be fed to children.

    I don’t know if this was the case where you live, but I remember when Nutella was advertised here in the US as a healthy breakfast choice for children.

    I mean, sure. Nutella is delicious. But it’s not exactly a healthy breakfast option. It’s a treat. And should never have been allowed to be advertised as anything otherwise.

    I agree. Nutella is hazelnut flavored frosting. It IS delicious - just like most frosting is. But it is dessert. If you want to eat dessert for breakfast, go for it - but just call it what it is.

    A whole new debate comes to mind, is Nutella appropriate for breakfast or not?? 🤣 Personally, I say yes, but I’m an IIFYM girl eat what you want when you want if it fits in your goals no matter the time of day lol.
  • MargaretYakodaMargaretYakoda Member, Premium Posts: 1,665 Member Member, Premium Posts: 1,665 Member
    panda4153 wrote: »
    autobahn66 wrote: »
    For my whole childhood I watch ads for foods which should, by all rights not exist, never mind be fed to children.

    I don’t know if this was the case where you live, but I remember when Nutella was advertised here in the US as a healthy breakfast choice for children.

    I mean, sure. Nutella is delicious. But it’s not exactly a healthy breakfast option. It’s a treat. And should never have been allowed to be advertised as anything otherwise.

    I agree. Nutella is hazelnut flavored frosting. It IS delicious - just like most frosting is. But it is dessert. If you want to eat dessert for breakfast, go for it - but just call it what it is.

    A whole new debate comes to mind, is Nutella appropriate for breakfast or not?? 🤣 Personally, I say yes, but I’m an IIFYM girl eat what you want when you want if it fits in your goals no matter the time of day lol.

    There are no bad foods. Only unwise portions.

    I haven’t tried it, but I bet a half teaspoon of Nutella melted in a bowl of oatmeal is pretty good.

    However, if we want chocolate flavored oatmeal in our house we use the chocolate banana chips we make.
    Recipe: Mashed brown bananas. Mix in cocoa powder until it’s a nice warm brown color. (Ten bananas to a quarter teaspoon of cocoa powder is a good start)
    Spread on a silicone sheet and dehydrate on a low setting until crispy.

    Absolutely fantastic in oatmeal. And no extra fat, or sugar beyond what’s naturally in the banana.
  • JessD9031JessD9031 Member Posts: 581 Member Member Posts: 581 Member
    @JessD9031 your thoughts?

    Why you wanna poke the bear Max? I am trying so hard to be good.
  • MargaretYakodaMargaretYakoda Member, Premium Posts: 1,665 Member Member, Premium Posts: 1,665 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    Well because our insurance for health is a FOR PROFIT venture, then YES, they should. The high rates for insurance are because of the high cost of health care in the US. Maybe cap it, but people who DON'T go to the hospital or need their insurance much because they take care of themselves should have lower rates.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    I mean the flip of this is that people dont' go to the hospital much because they can't afford it, miss a bunch of routine care, and when they're finally in dire straits their care cost a lot more and drives it up anyway.
    Or people who wind up going broke due to medical debt (or both) and still end up driving costs through the roof in MANY directions at once.

    So ultimately there are a lot of ways to drive costs of things up and maybe the solution isn't to make health care MORE expensive.

    I spent many years without medical insurance. And this is spot on.
    Or…. Some doctors will cut down on costs by simply refusing to treat you.

    I won’t go into the long stories. But I’ve had it happen. Situations where standard of care would have meant immediate hospitalization? Once they knew I had no insurance? Pain meds (sometimes) and out the door. KTHXBAI.
  • KosmosKittenKosmosKitten Member Posts: 10,301 Member Member Posts: 10,301 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    I believe the strange part wasn't the 0 out of pocket, but the $8K total cost, which does seem so low as to be strange, but I would guess that Tricare negotiated a good deal for themselves, as they may have the power to.

    They do that quite often, by what I've seen. My costs for having to fly back from Japan on emergency medical leave, be seen by a specialist and give birth in a facility far away from where my husband was stationed? $0. I didn't pay anything at all.

    The same holds true for my husband's mother, who has been battling a thyroid related issue (not cancer, but related to it) for close to 20 years now. Without Tricare, I cannot imagine what their out-of-pocket costs would be. She's constantly in and out of the hospital due to recurrent infections and she's become so antibiotic resistant that she's on that upper tier level of drugs.. the ones that cost $1-$3k per dose. :grimace:

    There are still out-of-pocket expenses they pay, but it's nowhere as bad as what I recently witnessed my dad have to pay for my stepmother when she was treated for (and sadly succumbed to) uterine cancer. Just.. yikes.

    Per the OP, no: I don't like the idea of charging obese people more for health insurance since obesity is not always the result of lifestyle choices. The aforementioned in-law is a great example. She is morbidly obese now due to her medical condition. She quite literally has maybe 1/3 of her thyroid and cannot take synthetic thyroid medication due to the other associated medical issues particular to her diagnosis. She eats healthier than I ever could hope to and maybe consumes 500 - 800 cal. per day and that's merely to stabilize her weight since her thyroid is essentially non-functioning. She cannot exercise due to the severe lipedema in her legs (again the result of her particular medical condition).

    I do understand that her case is quite rare; most people are overweight due to the choices they make (knowingly or unknowingly). I just don't feel that charging them more is going to help anyone in the long run. I do agree with an incentivized program, though. Gamifying it makes it more interesting, similar to certain weight loss strategies or apps (like Fitocracy). It's also less stigmatizing and I feel that you'd draw more people to healthy outcomes that way.

    Honey draws more flies than vinegar and all that.
    edited August 4
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