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New York becomes first U.S. city to order COVID vaccines for restaurants, gyms
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cwolfman13 wrote: »I definitely think more of this is coming down the pipe. These types of things are a privilege, not a right and I figured at some point the consequence to vaccine avoidance would become punitive.
I was reading another article this morning that it is highly possible that proof of vaccine will be required for airline travel once the vaccines have full FDA approval. I was reading another article talking about health and life insurance companies raising rates on unvaxed people. I actually just received a memo a couple of days ago from the company I have my life insurance through that they will be raising rates on unvaxed plan participants starting January 1, 2022.
In NM if you are faculty or a student of a state university, vaccines are mandated to be in person...I've also heard of this with many other universities around the country.
My last company got a big break on insurance rates because our average age was much younger than their norm.
I'm for higher rates for the unvaxxed.5 -
Hi from NYC!
So writing this from the village whilst at a restaurant having a vino…
It’s being normalized here in most establishments to show proof and wear a mask. I work for a place that requires proof of vax. 99% of our patrons are keen to show their proof and move on.
If one can’t or won’t be vaccinated.. outdoor dining is still an option, outdoor concerts are available.. there are still a lot of options. 🤷🏼♀️
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California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.13 -
Nooshi - I fully expect that to be mandated here in Australia soon too for all workers in Aged care and public hospitals - given this is already the case with flu vaccine - and for some other health areas, also other vaccines - whooping cough, Hep B, MMRV4
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A lot of US companies are starting to mandate all their employees be vaccinated. US Air and Tyson alone are a quarter million American jobs that are only available to the vaxxed. They're the tip of the iceberg. A hospital chain, I forget which one, fired some high level managers for refusing to vaccinate, CNN fired people recently for going into the office unvaccinated. This trend won't be universal, but the number of jobs available to the unvaxxed is shrinking and it mostly isn't the best jobs left.8
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The Venn diagram for people who don’t understand science, people who are anti vaxers, and people who are anti maskers is essentially a circle.12
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MargaretYakoda wrote: »The Venn diagram for people who don’t understand science, people who are anti vaxers, and people who are anti maskers is essentially a circle.
I agree with that. But also admit, when vaccinations were first being distributed, between fear and ignorance, I was hesitant to get it. Luckily I had no choice because I was helping my sister with her dh at the time.
Fear because I had no clue how it would affect me physically and I'm the biggest wimp at heart.
And ignorance because I didn't know if the efficacy of it would be worth the risk.
Months later, I'm so glad I had the vaccine and will not hesitate to get all recommended boosters, etc.
I think too many people are letting their fears take hold. And *that*, I understand.
And then you've got the ones who are claiming their freedoms and rights are being taken away. And *that* I do not understand because ultimately everybody's freedom and rights will be taken away.
But then again, I don't have a problem with being told what I can/cannot do. Our parents do it. Our employers do it. Our schools do it. Our government does it. Do I still feel free?? You bet your butt I do. I'm free to take a walk and not have my town shot to hell through mortar attacks. I'm free to go to our lovely local library and pick books I like. I'm free to practice any religion I choose, if I chose to. I'm free to go to my grocery store and pick up whatever I choose to for dinner. I was free to get an education and still am if I chose to. I'm free to simply visit my friends and neighbors, whether masked/vaxxed or not but feel I don't want to strip their freedom of being healthy by being thoughtless.
JMO.11 -
paperpudding wrote: »Nooshi - I fully expect that to be mandated here in Australia soon too for all workers in Aged care and public hospitals - given this is already the case with flu vaccine - and for some other health areas, also other vaccines - whooping cough, Hep B, MMRV
I’m glad to hear it. Right now, people’s lives are more important than our freedoms IMO.4 -
I guess I just don’t get what all the fuss is about. According to the CDC, vaccinated individuals can pass on the same viral load as unvaccinated so it seems like the end result is the same where ever there are groups of people, vaccinated or unvaccinated. If you are vaccinated, the risk seems to be the same. Less chance of getting sick but the same chance of passing on to someone who may not be able to be vaccinated due to whatever reason. Seems like the focus should still be on masking and social distancing not excluding/including different parts of society. I also find it interesting (when you dig for it) that natural antibodies seem to be proving to have similar efficacy to the vaccines. I probably would not have bothered to be vaccinated if I knew I had already had it.6
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@jogman, I read an article yesterday (just an article, didn't delve into the science behind it) that cited a study that showed that people who had covid and then received one vax (I think it was phizer but I wouldn't swear) had a marginally greater degree of protection than either fully vaxxed or covid-recovered people. Hope it turns out to be true2
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I guess I just don’t get what all the fuss is about. According to the CDC, vaccinated individuals can pass on the same viral load as unvaccinated so it seems like the end result is the same where ever there are groups of people, vaccinated or unvaccinated. If you are vaccinated, the risk seems to be the same. Less chance of getting sick but the same chance of passing on to someone who may not be able to be vaccinated due to whatever reason. Seems like the focus should still be on masking and social distancing not excluding/including different parts of society. I also find it interesting (when you dig for it) that natural antibodies seem to be proving to have similar efficacy to the vaccines. I probably would not have bothered to be vaccinated if I knew I had already had it.
Infected people seem to transmit equally whether they're vaccinated or not. But vaccinated people are less likely to become infected.9 -
paperpudding wrote: »richardgavel wrote: »I basically feel the same way. I got vaxxed sooner after I was eligible and I think I a private business wants to establish rules for entering their business, no problem. But I don't agree with government imposition of those rules.
I disagree.
I think it is better when governments make something important mandatory for all relevant businesses.
Examples in Australia - flu vaccine mandatory for all workers and visitors to Aged Care facilities.
Each organisation doesnt make its own rule - it is a legal requirement, not an organisational discretion thing, and applies nationally to all to them.
Works both ways.1 -
But its so easy to fake a vaccine card.4
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There was a demonstration in the last few days in our state capital, bunch of people with signs like "My Body, My Rules". Based on what the speakers at the rally said, they oppose mask mandates and vaccine mandates, either by government or employers.
I can support "My Body, My Rules", but I don't understand why that doesn't imply legitimacy for things like "My Business, My Rules", etc., if this is all about freedom.
IMU, it's long been the case here that employers can require nearly any silly, arbitrary thing they wish of employees, as long as doing so is not blocked by some legal protection. There are dress codes, codes of conduct that apply to behavior outside of work, drug testing, prohibitions on alcohol consumption during work, smoking prohibitions at the work site, and more. Violating those kinds of rules can get a person fired.
(I'm not saying I think vaccines are silly or arbitrary, BTW. I'm saying employers can enforce quite a variety of limitations on personal freedom. The individual's option is to work elsewhere . . . though of course trying to get authorities to block requirements via legal protections is of course within the right of free speech.)4 -
I guess I just don’t get what all the fuss is about. According to the CDC, vaccinated individuals can pass on the same viral load as unvaccinated so it seems like the end result is the same where ever there are groups of people, vaccinated or unvaccinated. If you are vaccinated, the risk seems to be the same. Less chance of getting sick but the same chance of passing on to someone who may not be able to be vaccinated due to whatever reason. Seems like the focus should still be on masking and social distancing not excluding/including different parts of society. I also find it interesting (when you dig for it) that natural antibodies seem to be proving to have similar efficacy to the vaccines. I probably would not have bothered to be vaccinated if I knew I had already had it.
I had it and got the Pfizer shots. Hopefully good for a whilr.2 -
Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »But its so easy to fake a vaccine card.
I had a fake ID when I was a minor. Doesn't mean ID should not be required.10 -
yes, if fake vaccine cards are a big issue (are they??) then make vaccine cards which are harder to fake.
I dont hear anyone saying don't have drivers licences because they could be faked - but of course we don't make them easy to fake either.5 -
paperpudding wrote: »yes, if fake vaccine cards are a big issue (are they??) then make vaccine cards which are harder to fake.
I dont hear anyone saying don't have drivers licences because they could be faked - but of course we don't make them easy to fake either.
Yes. It seems fake vaccine cards are becoming a big problem. Which is why my family is going to keep on social distancing and wearing masks for the foreseeable future.
I agree the vaccine cards should be difficult to fake, but there are a lot of logistical issues in the way. Which will have to be solved.
https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/fake-covid-vaccination-cards-are-on-the-rise-in-the-u-s-europe-116283412031 -
MargaretYakoda wrote: »The Venn diagram for people who don’t understand science, people who are anti vaxers, and people who are anti maskers is essentially a circle.
I agree with that. But also admit, when vaccinations were first being distributed, between fear and ignorance, I was hesitant to get it. Luckily I had no choice because I was helping my sister with her dh at the time.
Fear because I had no clue how it would affect me physically and I'm the biggest wimp at heart.
And ignorance because I didn't know if the efficacy of it would be worth the risk.
Months later, I'm so glad I had the vaccine and will not hesitate to get all recommended boosters, etc.
I think too many people are letting their fears take hold. And *that*, I understand.
And then you've got the ones who are claiming their freedoms and rights are being taken away. And *that* I do not understand because ultimately everybody's freedom and rights will be taken away.
But then again, I don't have a problem with being told what I can/cannot do. Our parents do it. Our employers do it. Our schools do it. Our government does it. Do I still feel free?? You bet your butt I do. I'm free to take a walk and not have my town shot to hell through mortar attacks. I'm free to go to our lovely local library and pick books I like. I'm free to practice any religion I choose, if I chose to. I'm free to go to my grocery store and pick up whatever I choose to for dinner. I was free to get an education and still am if I chose to. I'm free to simply visit my friends and neighbors, whether masked/vaxxed or not but feel I don't want to strip their freedom of being healthy by being thoughtless.
JMO.
Yep. 100%.
I don’t lump the reluctant with the absolute science deniers.
Especially since my anti-vaxer attitude hardened way back with the disgraced Dr Wakefield.3 -
California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term5
This discussion has been closed.
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