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What a lot of us here already know: "Fast" carbs don't make you fat!
Speakeasy76
Posts: 961 Member
https://www.abc27.com/news/health/fast-carbs-dont-make-you-fat-study-says/
I saw this article yesterday, and it confirms what a lot of us here already know: There is no difference between carbs that are supposedly processed faster (e.g., white bread, pasta, etc.) than slower-digesting carbs in terms of weight loss or gain and obesity. I was a bit skeptical that the report was commissioned by the "Grain Foods Foundation" and would like to read the actual report, but still think it's true in terms of weight loss. Nutritionally of course they are different, but I think there are still a lot of people out there who think white carbs are the devil!
I'll admit I used to never want to eat white rice, bread or pasta and do like whole-wheat, but lately have been eating more of the white stuff and not feeling bad about it. I actually think I may digest the white stuff more easily than the whole-wheat and the whole-wheat sometimes causes bloating/cramps, but need to experiment a bit more to see if that's what it is.
I saw this article yesterday, and it confirms what a lot of us here already know: There is no difference between carbs that are supposedly processed faster (e.g., white bread, pasta, etc.) than slower-digesting carbs in terms of weight loss or gain and obesity. I was a bit skeptical that the report was commissioned by the "Grain Foods Foundation" and would like to read the actual report, but still think it's true in terms of weight loss. Nutritionally of course they are different, but I think there are still a lot of people out there who think white carbs are the devil!
I'll admit I used to never want to eat white rice, bread or pasta and do like whole-wheat, but lately have been eating more of the white stuff and not feeling bad about it. I actually think I may digest the white stuff more easily than the whole-wheat and the whole-wheat sometimes causes bloating/cramps, but need to experiment a bit more to see if that's what it is.
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Replies
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The damnation of "fast carbs" I believe is because many many overweight people consumed them in mass amounts and because they taste better than a lot of "natural" whole carbs (IE brown rice vs white). What people fail to see is around the rest of the world, many countries also sell these "fast carbs" and yet the population's weight issues are no where near the overweight/obesity rate with exception of a few countries.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
16 -
It amazes me that grants or getting paid for this kind of study is still around. The Barnum & Bailey effect in full bloom.
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neanderthin wrote: »It amazes me that grants or getting paid for this kind of study is still around. The Barnum & Bailey effect in full bloom.
There is value in applying rigorous scientific methodology to testing out "common sense" ideas that "everyone knows." Sometimes folk wisdom is just flat-out wrong, or broadly right but for the wrong reasons.19 -
I realized in 2004 that I preferred white rice and felt guilty about abandoning brown rice for a long time, but no more!
I believe I first saw this graphic here on MFP:
https://www.aworkoutroutine.com/brown-rice-vs-white-rice/
I can easily make up that 1 g of protein and fiber elsewhere. Actually, as I type this I am eating cottage cheese and blueberries, so check
18 -
I never weighed my Before-sized portions of pasta, but they were probably as big as what my partner, who is a foot taller than me, eats. Now I limit pasta to 3.5 - 4 oz and make sure I have plenty of veggies and protein with it. That's about 500 calories. I'm sure I could easily eat 1,000 calories of just pasta and butter and feel less satisfied.6
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Here's a theory:
Many endurance athletes eat fast carbs, so much so that they create an actual market for ultra-fast carbs (like gels, etc.).
Few endurance athletes are fat.
Therefore, fast carbs make people thin.
(^^^ Joking . . . but still.)
Mostly in to endorse the idea that we need research that tests common sense assumptions. Sometimes they turn out to be false or misleading. Even when they turn out to be true, quantifying the effect, or discovering the mechanism, can provide useful insight.18 -
my personal experience is that browner carbs - eg whole meal bread - are more filling (presumably due to the fibre) - so it would be easier to over eat on white bread12
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goal06082021 wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »It amazes me that grants or getting paid for this kind of study is still around. The Barnum & Bailey effect in full bloom.
There is value in applying rigorous scientific methodology to testing out "common sense" ideas that "everyone knows." Sometimes folk wisdom is just flat-out wrong, or broadly right but for the wrong reasons.
I sure your right but I'll continue to think based on current science that it's calories and it's overconsumption that makes people gain weight, but who knows it might be individual foods like fast carbs.2 -
neanderthin wrote: »goal06082021 wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »It amazes me that grants or getting paid for this kind of study is still around. The Barnum & Bailey effect in full bloom.
There is value in applying rigorous scientific methodology to testing out "common sense" ideas that "everyone knows." Sometimes folk wisdom is just flat-out wrong, or broadly right but for the wrong reasons.
I sure your right but I'll continue to think based on current science that it's calories and it's overconsumption that makes people gain weight, but who knows it might be individual foods like fast carbs.
She isn't saying it's not calories. She's saying good science involves testing 'common knowledge' things that have never been put to the test.
That is accurate.
Because sometimes common sense is right and sometimes we drew a wrong conclusion, and either way having scientific evidence of that is useful to us.11 -
The only way in which 'fast carbs' contributed to making me fat was because I was using them to compensate for being wildly and chronically sleep deprived.
It takes a LOT of carbs to make up for having slept 6 hours over 4 days.16 -
Fast or slow, white or whole grain, all I know is: when I pull 4 loaves of fresh homemade bread out of the oven, no-one asks they just eat!
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wunderkindking wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »goal06082021 wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »It amazes me that grants or getting paid for this kind of study is still around. The Barnum & Bailey effect in full bloom.
There is value in applying rigorous scientific methodology to testing out "common sense" ideas that "everyone knows." Sometimes folk wisdom is just flat-out wrong, or broadly right but for the wrong reasons.
I sure your right but I'll continue to think based on current science that it's calories and it's overconsumption that makes people gain weight, but who knows it might be individual foods like fast carbs.
She isn't saying it's not calories. She's saying good science involves testing 'common knowledge' things that have never been put to the test.
That is accurate.
Because sometimes common sense is right and sometimes we drew a wrong conclusion, and either way having scientific evidence of that is useful to us.
Yes, thank you.5 -
goal06082021 wrote: »wunderkindking wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »goal06082021 wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »It amazes me that grants or getting paid for this kind of study is still around. The Barnum & Bailey effect in full bloom.
There is value in applying rigorous scientific methodology to testing out "common sense" ideas that "everyone knows." Sometimes folk wisdom is just flat-out wrong, or broadly right but for the wrong reasons.
I sure your right but I'll continue to think based on current science that it's calories and it's overconsumption that makes people gain weight, but who knows it might be individual foods like fast carbs.
She isn't saying it's not calories. She's saying good science involves testing 'common knowledge' things that have never been put to the test.
That is accurate.
Because sometimes common sense is right and sometimes we drew a wrong conclusion, and either way having scientific evidence of that is useful to us.
Yes, thank you.
I like science. I'm what some might call a nutritional nerd and have been doing my own research since the late 90's, so I agree science and testing hypothesis is crucial. The comparison between simple and complex carbs effects have been researched to death. This article even mentions 34 previous studies that came to the same conclusion. I give the researchers of this study credit for getting paid for something that has ben done over and over again and to no surprise they came to the same conclusion.3 -
kshama2001 wrote: »I realized in 2004 that I preferred white rice and felt guilty about abandoning brown rice for a long time, but no more!
I believe I first saw this graphic here on MFP:
https://www.aworkoutroutine.com/brown-rice-vs-white-rice/
I can easily make up that 1 g of protein and fiber elsewhere. Actually, as I type this I am eating cottage cheese and blueberries, so check
How is possible that white rice has vitamin C and brown rice doesn’t? That’s odd.2 -
kshama2001 wrote: »I realized in 2004 that I preferred white rice and felt guilty about abandoning brown rice for a long time, but no more!
I believe I first saw this graphic here on MFP:
https://www.aworkoutroutine.com/brown-rice-vs-white-rice/
I can easily make up that 1 g of protein and fiber elsewhere. Actually, as I type this I am eating cottage cheese and blueberries, so check
How is possible that white rice has vitamin C and brown rice doesn’t? That’s odd.
Rice doesn't have vit C, but lots of white rice is fortified, so maybe it was added.
I like brown rice better (I'm not that into rice anyway in that I think it works well with some food and is fine but I could easily live without it, but think if one must choose brown is tastier), but I don't think either is really better from a nutritional perspective. One can likely get nutrients more easily from fortified white rice than brown, and it's not like I find brown rice super filling -- it's way more about the protein and veg one eats with the rice.9 -
No foods make you fat - it's the amount of the foods you eat and how satiated the foods make you feel.
Most carbs regardless of their form make me hungry.
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Haha I love this! I love fast carbs!
I am a huge white rice lover. It is big in my culture. I always justify it by saying, well if Bruce Lee ate it every day then it must be healthy!
😄13 -
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kshama2001 wrote: »I realized in 2004 that I preferred white rice and felt guilty about abandoning brown rice for a long time, but no more!
I believe I first saw this graphic here on MFP:
https://www.aworkoutroutine.com/brown-rice-vs-white-rice/
I can easily make up that 1 g of protein and fiber elsewhere. Actually, as I type this I am eating cottage cheese and blueberries, so check
How is possible that white rice has vitamin C and brown rice doesn’t? That’s odd.
Rice doesn't have vit C, but lots of white rice is fortified, so maybe it was added.
I like brown rice better (I'm not that into rice anyway in that I think it works well with some food and is fine but I could easily live without it, but think if one must choose brown is tastier), but I don't think either is really better from a nutritional perspective. One can likely get nutrients more easily from fortified white rice than brown, and it's not like I find brown rice super filling -- it's way more about the protein and veg one eats with the rice.
That's what I was thinking too - but if that is the case then I think that showing a nutritional comparison between a fortified and non-fortified food item is a bit disingenuous. I mean it probably doesn't matter but it would make me question the rest of the comparatives as well (if I was interested in choosing rice with the best nutritional profile which personally I am not).
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kshama2001 wrote: »I realized in 2004 that I preferred white rice and felt guilty about abandoning brown rice for a long time, but no more!
I believe I first saw this graphic here on MFP:
https://www.aworkoutroutine.com/brown-rice-vs-white-rice/
I can easily make up that 1 g of protein and fiber elsewhere. Actually, as I type this I am eating cottage cheese and blueberries, so check
How is possible that white rice has vitamin C and brown rice doesn’t? That’s odd.
It could be about fortification, as some have suggested, of course.
But also remember that (1) manufacturers have wiggle room on these numeric values, though within a fairly narrow range, and (2) when you start removing things from a food (like fiber, inherent sugar, iron, etc. (via refining from brown to white rice in this case)), things that were a smaller percentage or quantity in the "before" food become a larger percentage or quantity in the "after" food.
I don't know whether that's what's happening here.
I can give you an illustration of what I'm saying, from an obvious case where it's true: I once had an argument here with someone who insisted that sugar was added to normal plain nonfat (skim) milk, because there were more sugar grams and a higher percent of sugar calories in nonfat milk as compared with full-fat milk. No, no that's not why: When we take out all the fat from a cup of milk, anything else that was in the original milk becomes a higher percentage of the remaining stuff, and if you top up the milk to compare the same one cup volume of each, the remaining components will be a bigger absolute volume of that cup as well (more grams, ounces, or whatever). It's just math. It's just because the fat is gone.
Don't know if the numbers work out that way here, but it's conceptually possible that vitamin C is a negligible percent (zero percent, in effect) of the brown rice, but once you mill off the husk/bran/germ, it's a tiny but measurable percent (two percent) of the white rice. 🤷♀️11 -
Fortification.kshama2001 wrote: »I realized in 2004 that I preferred white rice and felt guilty about abandoning brown rice for a long time, but no more!
I believe I first saw this graphic here on MFP:
https://www.aworkoutroutine.com/brown-rice-vs-white-rice/
I can easily make up that 1 g of protein and fiber elsewhere. Actually, as I type this I am eating cottage cheese and blueberries, so check
How is possible that white rice has vitamin C and brown rice doesn’t? That’s odd.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/carbohydrates/low-carbohydrate-diets/
I can't believe Harvard wrote this considering their ground zero for plant based diets. Anyway there's actually hundreds of studies that show that when carbs and we're talking mostly refined carbs and sugar are reduced in the diet that health markers improve, and significantly in some studies.2 -
neanderthin wrote: »https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/carbohydrates/low-carbohydrate-diets/
I can't believe Harvard wrote this considering their ground zero for plant based diets. Anyway there's actually hundreds of studies that show that when carbs and we're talking mostly refined carbs and sugar are reduced in the diet that health markers improve, and significantly in some studies.
Are there studies that look at the impacts of carbohydrate restriction outside of the context of weight loss?
That is, studies where there was no weight loss, but health markers improved? I ask because if people are losing weight it's going to be very hard to determine if it was due to carbohydrate restriction or due to losing weight.
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The body doesn't distinguish whether a food is fortified or not, so really wouldn't the biggest concern be what you're really getting from a food when you compare it with something similar?kshama2001 wrote: »I realized in 2004 that I preferred white rice and felt guilty about abandoning brown rice for a long time, but no more!
I believe I first saw this graphic here on MFP:
https://www.aworkoutroutine.com/brown-rice-vs-white-rice/
I can easily make up that 1 g of protein and fiber elsewhere. Actually, as I type this I am eating cottage cheese and blueberries, so check
How is possible that white rice has vitamin C and brown rice doesn’t? That’s odd.
Rice doesn't have vit C, but lots of white rice is fortified, so maybe it was added.
I like brown rice better (I'm not that into rice anyway in that I think it works well with some food and is fine but I could easily live without it, but think if one must choose brown is tastier), but I don't think either is really better from a nutritional perspective. One can likely get nutrients more easily from fortified white rice than brown, and it's not like I find brown rice super filling -- it's way more about the protein and veg one eats with the rice.
That's what I was thinking too - but if that is the case then I think that showing a nutritional comparison between a fortified and non-fortified food item is a bit disingenuous. I mean it probably doesn't matter but it would make me question the rest of the comparatives as well (if I was interested in choosing rice with the best nutritional profile which personally I am not).
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
5 -
The body doesn't distinguish whether a food is fortified or not, so really wouldn't the biggest concern be what you're really getting from a food when you compare it with something similar?kshama2001 wrote: »I realized in 2004 that I preferred white rice and felt guilty about abandoning brown rice for a long time, but no more!
I believe I first saw this graphic here on MFP:
https://www.aworkoutroutine.com/brown-rice-vs-white-rice/
I can easily make up that 1 g of protein and fiber elsewhere. Actually, as I type this I am eating cottage cheese and blueberries, so check
How is possible that white rice has vitamin C and brown rice doesn’t? That’s odd.
Rice doesn't have vit C, but lots of white rice is fortified, so maybe it was added.
I like brown rice better (I'm not that into rice anyway in that I think it works well with some food and is fine but I could easily live without it, but think if one must choose brown is tastier), but I don't think either is really better from a nutritional perspective. One can likely get nutrients more easily from fortified white rice than brown, and it's not like I find brown rice super filling -- it's way more about the protein and veg one eats with the rice.
That's what I was thinking too - but if that is the case then I think that showing a nutritional comparison between a fortified and non-fortified food item is a bit disingenuous. I mean it probably doesn't matter but it would make me question the rest of the comparatives as well (if I was interested in choosing rice with the best nutritional profile which personally I am not).
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
My point is that any food can be high in nutrients if you add them to it. I would think the whole point of comparing two foods side by side would be to do a comparison of the nutrients that are inherent in those foods.
3 -
Well since most processed foods end up stripping nutrients, you MAY NOT find any process foods that aren't fortified. So the search for those could be in vain. But again, I think the whole point of nutrients in food is what is offered to you whether fortified or not.
The body doesn't distinguish whether a food is fortified or not, so really wouldn't the biggest concern be what you're really getting from a food when you compare it with something similar?kshama2001 wrote: »I realized in 2004 that I preferred white rice and felt guilty about abandoning brown rice for a long time, but no more!
I believe I first saw this graphic here on MFP:
https://www.aworkoutroutine.com/brown-rice-vs-white-rice/
I can easily make up that 1 g of protein and fiber elsewhere. Actually, as I type this I am eating cottage cheese and blueberries, so check
How is possible that white rice has vitamin C and brown rice doesn’t? That’s odd.
Rice doesn't have vit C, but lots of white rice is fortified, so maybe it was added.
I like brown rice better (I'm not that into rice anyway in that I think it works well with some food and is fine but I could easily live without it, but think if one must choose brown is tastier), but I don't think either is really better from a nutritional perspective. One can likely get nutrients more easily from fortified white rice than brown, and it's not like I find brown rice super filling -- it's way more about the protein and veg one eats with the rice.
That's what I was thinking too - but if that is the case then I think that showing a nutritional comparison between a fortified and non-fortified food item is a bit disingenuous. I mean it probably doesn't matter but it would make me question the rest of the comparatives as well (if I was interested in choosing rice with the best nutritional profile which personally I am not).
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
My point is that any food can be high in nutrients if you add them to it. I would think the whole point of comparing two foods side by side would be to do a comparison of the nutrients that are inherent in those foods.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
2 -
Well since most processed foods end up stripping nutrients, you MAY NOT find any process foods that aren't fortified. So the search for those could be in vain. But again, I think the whole point of nutrients in food is what is offered to you whether fortified or not.
The body doesn't distinguish whether a food is fortified or not, so really wouldn't the biggest concern be what you're really getting from a food when you compare it with something similar?kshama2001 wrote: »I realized in 2004 that I preferred white rice and felt guilty about abandoning brown rice for a long time, but no more!
I believe I first saw this graphic here on MFP:
https://www.aworkoutroutine.com/brown-rice-vs-white-rice/
I can easily make up that 1 g of protein and fiber elsewhere. Actually, as I type this I am eating cottage cheese and blueberries, so check
How is possible that white rice has vitamin C and brown rice doesn’t? That’s odd.
Rice doesn't have vit C, but lots of white rice is fortified, so maybe it was added.
I like brown rice better (I'm not that into rice anyway in that I think it works well with some food and is fine but I could easily live without it, but think if one must choose brown is tastier), but I don't think either is really better from a nutritional perspective. One can likely get nutrients more easily from fortified white rice than brown, and it's not like I find brown rice super filling -- it's way more about the protein and veg one eats with the rice.
That's what I was thinking too - but if that is the case then I think that showing a nutritional comparison between a fortified and non-fortified food item is a bit disingenuous. I mean it probably doesn't matter but it would make me question the rest of the comparatives as well (if I was interested in choosing rice with the best nutritional profile which personally I am not).
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
My point is that any food can be high in nutrients if you add them to it. I would think the whole point of comparing two foods side by side would be to do a comparison of the nutrients that are inherent in those foods.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
OK - so if I buy protein fortified almond milk then I can claim that almond milk is higher protein than soy milk?
I mean sure maybe most white rice is fortified - that wasn't really the point of the post - it was a comparison between the two of them which to me would imply a comparison between their inherent nutritional profile. I mean the claim was that white rice is fairly comparable nutritionally to brown rice, if they have to add nutrients into because they "end up stripping" them out, then that claim is disingenuous, imo.
But honestly I don't care to argue about it, it was just an observation that I made looking at the comparative which made me curious, I honestly don't care that much about it to keep discussing it.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/carbohydrates/low-carbohydrate-diets/
I can't believe Harvard wrote this considering their ground zero for plant based diets. Anyway there's actually hundreds of studies that show that when carbs and we're talking mostly refined carbs and sugar are reduced in the diet that health markers improve, and significantly in some studies.
Are there studies that look at the impacts of carbohydrate restriction outside of the context of weight loss?
That is, studies where there was no weight loss, but health markers improved? I ask because if people are losing weight it's going to be very hard to determine if it was due to carbohydrate restriction or due to losing weight.
Yes actually quite a few and if I have time I'll post. It can be confusing if one diet is ad lib and the other is in a deficit, no doubt about it. Which actually triggers my memory recalling that most comparisons of a low carb diet vs a low fat diet had the low carb diet was instructed to eat at ad libitum while the low fat was given a calorie restriction, and almost all of the time, given the span and controls involved the low carb diet generally lost more weight and improved health markers.1 -
neanderthin wrote: »https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/carbohydrates/low-carbohydrate-diets/
I can't believe Harvard wrote this considering their ground zero for plant based diets. Anyway there's actually hundreds of studies that show that when carbs and we're talking mostly refined carbs and sugar are reduced in the diet that health markers improve, and significantly in some studies.
The Harvard nutrition people have never been pro eating lots of refined carbs or added sugar. It's just that they don't think that's the only thing that matters for a healthy diet.
Also, no fast carbs (like at least one person seems to be arguing in this thread) and don't overeat highly refined carbs and added sugars are different things.5 -
neanderthin wrote: »https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/carbohydrates/low-carbohydrate-diets/
I can't believe Harvard wrote this considering their ground zero for plant based diets. Anyway there's actually hundreds of studies that show that when carbs and we're talking mostly refined carbs and sugar are reduced in the diet that health markers improve, and significantly in some studies.
The Harvard nutrition people have never been pro eating lots of refined carbs or added sugar. It's just that they don't think that's the only thing that matters for a healthy diet.
Also, no fast carbs (like at least one person seems to be arguing in this thread) and don't overeat highly refined carbs and added sugars are different things.
I agree.2
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