Barbell "Form check"(e.g., Squats, Deadlift, Benching, Presses)
Replies
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Yes I did my last to failure, I thought training to failure was better for hypertrophy purposes but at the time I hear it is not optimal for strength gains, I thought the two were related?
It's not completely without controversy, but most of the literature I've seen on the topic says that the results you see staying at a RPE of 7-9 are the same as you see when going to failure (RPE 10), at least as far as hypertrophy is concerned. And any slight advantage you might get going to failure is negated by the fact that you're going to have to rest and recover more because you're pushing to failure, which will put more stress on your body, particularly your connective tissue/joints which take longer to recover, in general. Also trying to push yourself to failure means you're more likely to have a form breakdown and thus more likely to injure yourself.
So my personal opinion, based on the science I've looked at, is that in the short term there might be a slightly better hypertrophy response as a result of going to failure regularly but it is completely negated by the recovery requirements it puts on your body and the risk of injury. This is particularly true of compound movements like bench pressing, squats and deadlifts, for example.
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Yes I did my last to failure, I thought training to failure was better for hypertrophy purposes but at the time I hear it is not optimal for strength gains, I thought the two were related?
It's not completely without controversy, but most of the literature I've seen on the topic says that the results you see staying at a RPE of 7-9 are the same as you see when going to failure (RPE 10), at least as far as hypertrophy is concerned. And any slight advantage you might get going to failure is negated by the fact that you're going to have to rest and recover more because you're pushing to failure, which will put more stress on your body, particularly your connective tissue/joints which take longer to recover, in general. Also trying to push yourself to failure means you're more likely to have a form breakdown and thus more likely to injure yourself.
So my personal opinion, based on the science I've looked at, is that in the short term there might be a slightly better hypertrophy response as a result of going to failure regularly but it is completely negated by the recovery requirements it puts on your body and the risk of injury. This is particularly true of compound movements like bench pressing, squats and deadlifts, for example.
It's good to know, we often hear conflincting informations in exercise science. But if it's not necessary to train to failure then that's great.0 -
Yes I did my last to failure, I thought training to failure was better for hypertrophy purposes but at the time I hear it is not optimal for strength gains, I thought the two were related?
It's not completely without controversy, but most of the literature I've seen on the topic says that the results you see staying at a RPE of 7-9 are the same as you see when going to failure (RPE 10), at least as far as hypertrophy is concerned. And any slight advantage you might get going to failure is negated by the fact that you're going to have to rest and recover more because you're pushing to failure, which will put more stress on your body, particularly your connective tissue/joints which take longer to recover, in general. Also trying to push yourself to failure means you're more likely to have a form breakdown and thus more likely to injure yourself.
So my personal opinion, based on the science I've looked at, is that in the short term there might be a slightly better hypertrophy response as a result of going to failure regularly but it is completely negated by the recovery requirements it puts on your body and the risk of injury. This is particularly true of compound movements like bench pressing, squats and deadlifts, for example.
I fully concur other than no lift is more inherently higher risk of injury by itself.
Proper load management is key.
Compound lifts "might" be easier to increase the stress just by intensity jumps, but it comes down to stress accumulated in relation to recovery.
So like you mentioned keeping it in the 7-8 possibly 9 RPE range is will lesson the injury risk and make recovery a lessor issue for any lift.
Kudos to your insight.2 -
JeffMatchett wrote: »Hi again Chief,
I have another squat video on which I would really appreciate some feedback.
Last time you suggested I squeeze glutes and lock knees as a starting position, eyes on the floor a few feet in front, and that I squat onto plates to fix the depth. I’ve had a go at all those.
I don’t know whether my box squats were set too high but when I removed the box and filmed myself it looked like I was a few inches short of parallel. I was squatting up to 105kg but ended up dropping the weight back down again to correct this.
This video is third set of 5 and was 10 reps at 80kg. I was going for and got a volume record in this session.
I’m pretty happy with the set. Some of them are perhaps a touch short of parallel but many seemed about right and they felt pretty good.
https://youtu.be/_iHXgGQCJy4
Dave
Ngl some of that knee locking looks downright dangerous. At that point you're transferring the weight from your muscles directly onto your joint resulting in negligible muscle work and unnecessary joint stress. You can pull the hips in while maintaining mild bend to the knee.
Please read initial post in full if you haven't already.I please ask that everyone refrain from suggesting form fixes, cues, or suggesting their fav "youtuber" to those who post in order to keep the thread clean as possible for me to answer a post efficiently without having to correct or perhaps argue these thoughts. It's not that I'm correct or others are not. I feel we should question everyone to get our answers. Though if you feel the need to express them, I respectably ask you please start your own thread and I would be happy to view and reply if you wish .
I respectfully disagree with your advice and there isn't any evidence that locking your knees is inherently dangerous on a squat. In fact it helps replicate good technique. It also is required by all feds of powerlifting to begin the squat. I'm unaware of any data that suggests avoiding locking knees at the start of a squat. I'm more than interested if you care to post a citation of actually evidence though.
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What about locking your elbows for upper body lifts like the bench press, skull crushers etc..? Is it beneficial for extra strength and muscle gains?
I heard locking your elbows is specially beneficial for gaining mass in your triceps.0 -
What about locking your elbows for upper body lifts like the bench press, skull crushers etc..? Is it beneficial for extra strength and muscle gains?
I heard locking your elbows is specially beneficial for gaining mass in your triceps.
It going to come down to programming and goals in the end.
For both hypertrophy & strength goals I prefer main lifts to have full ROM as evidence suggests it's optimal for both in general.
Though a small part of my variations might have a specific ROM that is lesser to the parent lift.
For bench & skull crushers I would always lean towards full lockout with appropriate intensity/volume within well written programming for several reasons.2 -
Hey Chief! I am a newbie lifter and this was my first squat session on my own. My RPE would be 7-8 and I had 3 more reps in the tank at the best, I think. I dislocated my left knee about 10 years ago so I tend to lift more with my right leg. I also have hip mobility issues, left hip mostly. Not sure if this matters but I put a lot of strain on my neck during my workouts. Thank you for any input you can give me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imLv6cY2YFQ 1 -
happimess01 wrote: »Hey Chief! I am a newbie lifter and this was my first squat session on my own. My RPE would be 7-8 and I had 3 more reps in the tank at the best, I think. I dislocated my left knee about 10 years ago so I tend to lift more with my right leg. I also have hip mobility issues, left hip mostly. Not sure if this matters but I put a lot of strain on my neck during my workouts. Thank you for any input you can give mehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imLv6cY2YFQ
Hey happimess01!
Yeah I'm not seeing anything unusual from this video angle for your experience level that won't correct itself as you get more reps with appropriate weight. Seriously a good starting point 👍.
One thing I'd like to see you work on is your Valsalva maneuver for bracing. Take time right before every rep to take in the air and brace before you start your decent. This will keep you in a more advantageous position throughout the squat but especially going in & out of the hole. Again, I would like to see you setting & holding the Valsalva maneuver mindfully.
You mentioned feeling the discomfort in your neck area. This can be many things & not neccessarily anything "wrong" but we can certainly try small adjustments and see if things get better for your squat.
We might try dropping the barbell down your back just a bit. This might also require a slightly more wider grip. It is perfectly fine to rest barbell on your upper traps(high bar) but you may have the barbell resting or even rolling towards your neck. It's hard to see from video. Regardless try the adjustment with a empty barbell and see if it feels okay to start adding the weight towards your working sets targets. The better bracing might help this sensation as well.
Please come back and post another vid of how things are going after you work on the adjustments for a bit and we can go from there.
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happimess01 wrote: »Hey Chief! I am a newbie lifter and this was my first squat session on my own. My RPE would be 7-8 and I had 3 more reps in the tank at the best, I think. I dislocated my left knee about 10 years ago so I tend to lift more with my right leg. I also have hip mobility issues, left hip mostly. Not sure if this matters but I put a lot of strain on my neck during my workouts. Thank you for any input you can give mehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imLv6cY2YFQ
Hey happimess01!
Yeah I'm not seeing anything unusual from this video angle for your experience level that won't correct itself as you get more reps with appropriate weight. Seriously a good starting point 👍.
One thing I'd like to see you work on is your Valsalva maneuver for bracing. Take time right before every rep to take in the air and brace before you start your decent. This will keep you in a more advantageous position throughout the squat but especially going in & out of the hole. Again, I would like to see you setting & holding the Valsalva maneuver mindfully.
You mentioned feeling the discomfort in your neck area. This can be many things & not neccessarily anything "wrong" but we can certainly try small adjustments and see if things get better for your squat.
We might try dropping the barbell down your back just a bit. This might also require a slightly more wider grip. It is perfectly fine to rest barbell on your upper traps(high bar) but you may have the barbell resting or even rolling towards your neck. It's hard to see from video. Regardless try the adjustment with a empty barbell and see if it feels okay to start adding the weight towards your working sets targets. The better bracing might help this sensation as well.
Please come back and post another vid of how things are going after you work on the adjustments for a bit and we can go from there.
Thank you so much for taking a look and the encouragement. You made a great point about working on the Valsala maneuver, I'll work on it. As for the neck thing, it usually happens when I am doing cable tricep extensions, lat pulldowns or recently face pulls. I am trying to keep my shoulders low and not lift with my neck. I will post again soon for sure. Thanks again 1 -
Here's one for deadlift. Just started learning the lift this month. The RPE was 5. I had a session with a trainer and he asked me to stare at a point on the floor. He said I was holding my neck too rigid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cnceh5-rhY 0 -
So with your deadlift we have alot going on here. For one you get nice back extension early on, but lose it after a couple reps making the pulls harder. I do expect some loss but we will get better the more we practice with useful cues/adjustments.
We also are performing touch & goes making the pulls easier after the first rep.
Your gaze on to first couple reps is literally out at a wall or a mirror I assume. Not ideal. Then you switch your gaze to something just in front of your feet. Also not ideal.
Here are the things I would have you work on in order one at a time.
1. I prefer you not facing a mirror if you are.
2. I prefer you to stop between reps and perform your Valsalva maneuver at the bottom.
3. I would like you to engage your lats by depressing your shoulders down your torso. A decent cue can be to think of someone is attempting to tickle your armpits from behind so "close them" or "squeeze them".
4. A good starting point for your gaze would be somewhere in between the two you used in the video. About 8-12' in front of you.
5. When you are lowering the barbell, I would like your first movement being a hip hinge back towards the wall behind you. You tend to bend your knees immediately which in turns forces the barbell to lower around your knees instead of straight down. A empty barbell RDL can help practice this quickly just to introduce the feeling.
6. Perhaps this video is different from what the trainer is seeing previously but I respectfully disagree entirely from this video at least. Your head is moving up and down depending on where you are looking partially responsible why you are losing tightness in your upper back. Take your gaze and get locked in. Rigid is a good thing in performing the deadlift. Move your eyes, not so much your head.
Swipe over to the 2nd video from IG and it gives a decent idea of the gaze I'm describing along with the reset between reps. Hopefully it may be usefully on what Is like you to practice on.4 -
So with your deadlift we have alot going on here. For one you get nice back extension early on, but lose it after a couple reps making the pulls harder. I do expect some loss but we will get better the more we practice with useful cues/adjustments.
We also are performing touch & goes making the pulls easier after the first rep.
Your gaze on to first couple reps is literally out at a wall or a mirror I assume. Not ideal. Then you switch your gaze to something just in front of your feet. Also not ideal.
Here are the things I would have you work on in order one at a time.
1. I prefer you not facing a mirror if you are.
2. I prefer you to stop between reps and perform your Valsalva maneuver at the bottom.
3. I would like you to engage your lats by depressing your shoulders down your torso. A decent cue can be to think of someone is attempting to tickle your armpits from behind so "close them" or "squeeze them".
4. A good starting point for your gaze would be somewhere in between the two you used in the video. About 8-12' in front of you.
5. When you are lowering the barbell, I would like your first movement being a hip hinge back towards the wall behind you. You tend to bend your knees immediately which in turns forces the barbell to lower around your knees instead of straight down. A empty barbell RDL can help practice this quickly just to introduce the feeling.
6. Perhaps this video is different from what the trainer is seeing previously but I respectfully disagree entirely from this video at least. Your head is moving up and down depending on where you are looking partially responsible why you are losing tightness in your upper back. Take your gaze and get locked in. Rigid is a good thing in performing the deadlift. Move your eyes, not so much your head.
Swipe over to the 2nd video from IG and it gives a decent idea of the gaze I'm describing along with the reset between reps. Hopefully it may be usefully on what Is like you to practice on.
wow, can't thank you enough for the detailed feedback. I will get started with these one at a time. About your point no. 5, I was scraping my knees on the bar and I thought that was normal. Now I know. About point no. 6, he asked me to stare at the ground but I forgot and started looking in the mirror during that lift. I saw your video ( what a lift!) , thanks for sharing! I will try to look 8-12' in front of me next time1 -
Hey @Chieflrg, here are two videos from my deadlift session today. They were separate sets, the side view had a RPE of 7-8 and the front view was a 9 I think. Thank you so much for helping me out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrEBcunlDHg 0 -
Hello again @Chieflrg,
Please could I get your input on my deadlifts? This set was 1st of 3 at 120kg x 6.
I’m reasonably happy with what I see but note that my neck position looks somewhat off neutral. I’m aiming to (and think I am) fixing my gaze on a spot that’s effectively on the floor 10-15ft in front. It doesn’t quite look like it though.
(I’m not sure why sometimes it embeds the video and other times not)
https://youtube.com/shorts/EpMG7_doYvc?feature=share
As always, your input is appreciated.
Dave0 -
Ah… it didn’t embed because I made it a “short”. Not sure what the point of those are. Here’s the same video.
https://youtu.be/4IybgOakjoc 0 -
happimess01 wrote: »Hey @Chieflrg, here are two videos from my deadlift session today. They were separate sets, the side view had a RPE of 7-8 and the front view was a 9 I think. Thank you so much for helping me outhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrEBcunlDHg
So I see improvement, awesome!
There are couple things we can strive to work on.
1. One I would like to see you start with your arms straight. If you notice nearly every rep you jerk your arms straight after initiating the start of the lift. We want arms straight and feeling a tad "heavy hands" before we actually start the pull. We do this by starting with our arms straight and squeezing our triceps while depressing our lats(#3 previous suggestion). Really squeeze our armpits shut and keep this feeling the entire lift back to the floor.
2. We can start with our hips a bit higher. While performing the above correction more than likely you will have to set up closer to the barbell than you would if you were pulling of a even floor. So our shins will be slightly more vertical yet touching the barbell. Your hips should be the same height you see when the barbell breaks the floor. It's a common error of efficiency we see on newer and many more advanced lifters and I think you could benefit from a higher starting position.
I'm linking a setup video I think might be helpful for you and might find useful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYREQkVtvEc
1 -
Hello again @Chieflrg,
Please could I get your input on my deadlifts? This set was 1st of 3 at 120kg x 6.
I’m reasonably happy with what I see but note that my neck position looks somewhat off neutral. I’m aiming to (and think I am) fixing my gaze on a spot that’s effectively on the floor 10-15ft in front. It doesn’t quite look like it though.
(I’m not sure why sometimes it embeds the video and other times not)
https://youtube.com/shorts/EpMG7_doYvc?feature=share
As always, your input is appreciated.
Dave
Hey Dave !
So yeah your neck position is reasonable in this video.
So I see you shifting forward toward your toes after breaking the floor. This "could" be from every so slightly sitting back in the starting position and just finding a more optimal balance or I hazard this has more to do with your footwear.
It appears you're wearing Addias power lifts which I find useful for many people performing squats or even benching. Because of the raised heel it can and usually throw off the balance and pitch us forward during/after the break off the floor. I'd like you to try a flat soled shoe without a raised heel. I recommend a leather indoor soccer or wrestling shoes because of the good arch support and no heel. If you have a pair of Chuck's or Van's, it can also work.
When we move shift forward for any reason, our gaze might be a bit more noticeably challenging.
All in all, well did!1 -
happimess01 wrote: »Hey @Chieflrg, here are two videos from my deadlift session today. They were separate sets, the side view had a RPE of 7-8 and the front view was a 9 I think. Thank you so much for helping me outhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrEBcunlDHg
So I see improvement, awesome!
There are couple things we can strive to work on.
1. One I would like to see you start with your arms straight. If you notice nearly every rep you jerk your arms straight after initiating the start of the lift. We want arms straight and feeling a tad "heavy hands" before we actually start the pull. We do this by starting with our arms straight and squeezing our triceps while depressing our lats(#3 previous suggestion). Really squeeze our armpits shut and keep this feeling the entire lift back to the floor.
2. We can start with our hips a bit higher. While performing the above correction more than likely you will have to set up closer to the barbell than you would if you were pulling of a even floor. So our shins will be slightly more vertical yet touching the barbell. Your hips should be the same height you see when the barbell breaks the floor. It's a common error of efficiency we see on newer and many more advanced lifters and I think you could benefit from a higher starting position.
I'm linking a setup video I think might be helpful for you and might find useful.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYREQkVtvEc
Thanks a ton for all this great info! I should write you a cheque haha. I was confused about the lat engagement tip you gave me last time but I think I get it now. I will try thess out in my next session and report back. Cheers!1 -
Hello again @Chieflrg,
Please could I get your input on my deadlifts? This set was 1st of 3 at 120kg x 6.
I’m reasonably happy with what I see but note that my neck position looks somewhat off neutral. I’m aiming to (and think I am) fixing my gaze on a spot that’s effectively on the floor 10-15ft in front. It doesn’t quite look like it though.
(I’m not sure why sometimes it embeds the video and other times not)
https://youtube.com/shorts/EpMG7_doYvc?feature=share
As always, your input is appreciated.
Dave
Hey Dave !
So yeah your neck position is reasonable in this video.
So I see you shifting forward toward your toes after breaking the floor. This "could" be from every so slightly sitting back in the starting position and just finding a more optimal balance or I hazard this has more to do with your footwear.
It appears you're wearing Addias power lifts which I find useful for many people performing squats or even benching. Because of the raised heel it can and usually throw off the balance and pitch us forward during/after the break off the floor. I'd like you to try a flat soled shoe without a raised heel. I recommend a leather indoor soccer or wrestling shoes because of the good arch support and no heel. If you have a pair of Chuck's or Van's, it can also work.
When we move shift forward for any reason, our gaze might be a bit more noticeably challenging.
All in all, well did!
Thanks Chief. I’ll find some new footwear and give that a try. Appreciated, as always.
Dave
0 -
Hello again @Chieflrg,
Please could I get your input on my deadlifts? This set was 1st of 3 at 120kg x 6.
I’m reasonably happy with what I see but note that my neck position looks somewhat off neutral. I’m aiming to (and think I am) fixing my gaze on a spot that’s effectively on the floor 10-15ft in front. It doesn’t quite look like it though.
(I’m not sure why sometimes it embeds the video and other times not)
https://youtube.com/shorts/EpMG7_doYvc?feature=share
As always, your input is appreciated.
Dave
Hey Dave !
So yeah your neck position is reasonable in this video.
So I see you shifting forward toward your toes after breaking the floor. This "could" be from every so slightly sitting back in the starting position and just finding a more optimal balance or I hazard this has more to do with your footwear.
It appears you're wearing Addias power lifts which I find useful for many people performing squats or even benching. Because of the raised heel it can and usually throw off the balance and pitch us forward during/after the break off the floor. I'd like you to try a flat soled shoe without a raised heel. I recommend a leather indoor soccer or wrestling shoes because of the good arch support and no heel. If you have a pair of Chuck's or Van's, it can also work.
When we move shift forward for any reason, our gaze might be a bit more noticeably challenging.
All in all, well did!
Thanks Chief. I’ll find some new footwear and give that a try. Appreciated, as always.
Dave
Hope it helps. You're technique is looking polished.0
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