Barbell "Form check"(e.g., Squats, Deadlift, Benching, Presses)
Chieflrg
Posts: 9,097 Member
Hi everyone,
I am posting this to give an avenue for those who are questioning their "form" with barbell lifts. I first want to state that there are certain ideas/thoughts that can be either helpful or harmful. I hope that this thread is helpful to those who view or post.
One example that is often expressed by some recreational or even professional lifters/coaches is that if a lifter's back isn't perfectly straight throughout a dead lift, one is going to be injured or worse their back will explode and never be able to walk. This simply isn't true or backed by evidence. This is a harmful thought and can effect the mind set and body of someone who trains.
I please ask that everyone refrain from suggesting form fixes, cues, or suggesting their fav "youtuber" to those who post in order to keep the thread clean as possible for me to answer a post efficiently without having to correct or perhaps argue these thoughts. It's not that I'm correct or others are not. I feel we should question everyone to get our answers. Though if you feel the need to express them, I respectably ask you please start your own thread and I would be happy to view and reply if you wish
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First, I like to address what good form is. Well that is debatable. There is no clear cut perfect form that is a "one size fits all". There is certainly ideas that should be utilized to perform a lift with efficiency. Such as keep the barbell balanced over mid foot on a squat or dead lift throughout a lift. Since we are all built with different proportions, this can be accomplished many ways with the lifters skill, proportions, load, etc are in mind.
Ideally we would prefer to have a lifter's back fully extended, braced with no flexion at all. That simple isn't possible in all cases depending on the lifter, training, load, etc..some upper lumbar flexion will happen at times and with proper load management, there shouldn't be a blanketed major concern in that regards.
If you wish to post a video of your barbell lift and have it critiqued by me.
1. I request the video to be recorded from a direct side view and a front view if possible.
2. Stating the RPE or percentage of your 1rm would be great.
3. I prefer to see multiple reps set instead of a one rep max.
4. Single reps<RPE 8 or 92% of your your e1rm is also fine.
5. Simple post the link of your youtube, IG, etc.. in your post and I will be happy to help you if possible. *(Google drive I have problems viewing)
6. Note if you have a recent injuries or training changes.
Everyone is welcome to post a video regardless of experience.
Good training to all!
I am posting this to give an avenue for those who are questioning their "form" with barbell lifts. I first want to state that there are certain ideas/thoughts that can be either helpful or harmful. I hope that this thread is helpful to those who view or post.
One example that is often expressed by some recreational or even professional lifters/coaches is that if a lifter's back isn't perfectly straight throughout a dead lift, one is going to be injured or worse their back will explode and never be able to walk. This simply isn't true or backed by evidence. This is a harmful thought and can effect the mind set and body of someone who trains.
I please ask that everyone refrain from suggesting form fixes, cues, or suggesting their fav "youtuber" to those who post in order to keep the thread clean as possible for me to answer a post efficiently without having to correct or perhaps argue these thoughts. It's not that I'm correct or others are not. I feel we should question everyone to get our answers. Though if you feel the need to express them, I respectably ask you please start your own thread and I would be happy to view and reply if you wish
.First, I like to address what good form is. Well that is debatable. There is no clear cut perfect form that is a "one size fits all". There is certainly ideas that should be utilized to perform a lift with efficiency. Such as keep the barbell balanced over mid foot on a squat or dead lift throughout a lift. Since we are all built with different proportions, this can be accomplished many ways with the lifters skill, proportions, load, etc are in mind.
Ideally we would prefer to have a lifter's back fully extended, braced with no flexion at all. That simple isn't possible in all cases depending on the lifter, training, load, etc..some upper lumbar flexion will happen at times and with proper load management, there shouldn't be a blanketed major concern in that regards.
If you wish to post a video of your barbell lift and have it critiqued by me.
1. I request the video to be recorded from a direct side view and a front view if possible.
2. Stating the RPE or percentage of your 1rm would be great.
3. I prefer to see multiple reps set instead of a one rep max.
4. Single reps<RPE 8 or 92% of your your e1rm is also fine.
5. Simple post the link of your youtube, IG, etc.. in your post and I will be happy to help you if possible. *(Google drive I have problems viewing)
6. Note if you have a recent injuries or training changes.
Everyone is welcome to post a video regardless of experience.
Good training to all!
21
Replies
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I've been thinking about posting for a while, but I didn't have a side-on or front-on video.
Here's a set of 5 deadlifts at about 84% of my 1rm. I'd call it an 8 or an 8.5. No recent injuries, but I'm 2 weeks back into training after a 3 week holiday. I'd appreciate any comments you might have!
https://youtu.be/7oYId2PO9WY
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Honestly this is a very good dead lift. Your doing a good job pulling the slack in particular and getting into a great starting position.I've been thinking about posting for a while, but I didn't have a side-on or front-on video.
Here's a set of 5 deadlifts at about 84% of my 1rm. I'd call it an 8 or an 8.5. No recent injuries, but I'm 2 weeks back into training after a 3 week holiday. I'd appreciate any comments you might have!https://youtu.be/7oYId2PO9WY
From this video and angle there isn't anything that would concern me.
If we are getting picky, on the third and fourth rep we can see you losing some tightness in your upper body. This could be causing you to lose a some of the great position and back angle you start with.
I would possibly cue you to depress your shoulders down your back into your lats and see if the helps hold the back angle from the start.
Once again, this is being nit picky.. Its very slight but possibly something we might polish up now instead of later.
All in all great job and feel free to post a follow up vid once you get more reps in since you've are just re turning from holiday.
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Thanks Chief, I appreciate the feedback! I'll try out the cue you suggested, see how it pans out.1
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Bump. Things that go bump in the night. Bump.2
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Just found this today . I’ll post some video next week. This is just what I need!2
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I'll play. The dead I felt like I was going to pitch forward on. 355 lbs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFOkdQUSoPE
And the grindiest squat ever, for fun. 260ish, I believe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs0mRGB1T1g
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quiksylver296 wrote: »I'll play. The dead I felt like I was going to pitch forward on. 355 lbshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFOkdQUSoPE
And the grindiest squat ever, for fun. 260ish, I believehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs0mRGB1T1g
With your pull I would hazard this was at the end of your session and/or fatigue involved but that is just speculation. It's worth noting if so and understanding it's okay and normal to have blips.
1. I would like to see your hips about a half inch to possibly a inch higher from start position. This would be the hip height when the barbell broke the floor(your strongest position). To achieve this I would cue you to "touch" the barbell with shins. You are pushing the barbell slightly out from midfoot with your shins. When you push it forward, your knees have to move back into a more vertical position and the barbell can float and pull you on your toes. Once again "touch".
2. You basically lost balance and got on your toes. It appears you were losing air/tightness right before the stutter at the top and had to breath in again to lock out. Try to take in "big air" or "fill your belt" and hold to the top without releasing. Once again, this could be a result of fatigue....I'm not sure being I'm seeing only one rep here.
3. I would also cue you to gaze out in front just a bit more instead of looking down and then up as you pull. Something maybe to try and see how it feels.
As far as your squat, I would assume this a 2nd or 3rrd attempt and more than likely meet PR? This makes any adjustments obsolete since when we displaying maximal effort. We are doing whatever it takes to perform the lift within rules and as far as lift itself, you were patient and held position with great fight.
Being picky pre-lift, I would say be more deliberate with your walk out and use less steps. Less energy we use before we start the more we have to perform the squat. It's not bad, just could use polish. Practice it on every squat from warmup to top and it will be optimal in time.
These are all very minor adjustments but could help you. I invite you to try them one at a time over many sessions instead of thinking about too many cues before a lift.
All in all great stuff you have there and yes I'm picking on the little things because the big ones look solid.
Let me know how it goes . 2 -
Thanks, @chieflrg. You’re right on both, and saying things I knew but always need reminded on.4
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This is fun. Want to tear up my bench? Five sets of one at RPE 8. 154.3 lbs, this was the third set of one, IIRC.
Note: I've developed glute med tendonopathy in my right hip, and a cortisone shot scheduled for Thursday. The hip is affecting my set-up, specifically my leg drive.
https://youtu.be/3yi9llcA9QE 0 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »This is fun. Want to tear up my bench? Five sets of one at RPE 8. 154.3 lbs, this was the third set of one, IIRC.
Note: I've developed glute med tendonopathy in my right hip, and a cortisone shot scheduled for Thursday. The hip is affecting my set-up, specifically my leg drive.https://youtu.be/3yi9llcA9QE
Near perfect single @8.
I "might" flirt with a slightly higher touch point if I saw a multiple rep set that was near identical reps. Anywhere from .25-.5 of a inch just going by this speck of footage. With only one rep footage, we call it it good rep!
On a side note I had that exact tendonaphy in my left hip after my last meet.
I decided to rehab it instead of the cort-shot because current evidence showing more long term success when comparing a year after. It took about seven months of load management. Hope the shot takes well for you!2 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »This is fun. Want to tear up my bench? Five sets of one at RPE 8. 154.3 lbs, this was the third set of one, IIRC.
Note: I've developed glute med tendonopathy in my right hip, and a cortisone shot scheduled for Thursday. The hip is affecting my set-up, specifically my leg drive.https://youtu.be/3yi9llcA9QE
Near perfect single @8.
I "might" flirt with a slightly higher touch point if I saw a multiple rep set that was near identical reps. Anywhere from .25-.5 of a inch just going by this speck of footage. With only one rep footage, we call it it good rep!
On a side note I had that exact tendonaphy in my left hip after my last meet.
I decided to rehab it instead of the cort-shot because current evidence showing more long term success when comparing a year after. It took about seven months of load management. Hope the shot takes well for you!
Rehab is going to happen, too. The shot is because we're so close to Nats.2 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »This is fun. Want to tear up my bench? Five sets of one at RPE 8. 154.3 lbs, this was the third set of one, IIRC.
Note: I've developed glute med tendonopathy in my right hip, and a cortisone shot scheduled for Thursday. The hip is affecting my set-up, specifically my leg drive.https://youtu.be/3yi9llcA9QE
Near perfect single @8.
I "might" flirt with a slightly higher touch point if I saw a multiple rep set that was near identical reps. Anywhere from .25-.5 of a inch just going by this speck of footage. With only one rep footage, we call it it good rep!
On a side note I had that exact tendonaphy in my left hip after my last meet.
I decided to rehab it instead of the cort-shot because current evidence showing more long term success when comparing a year after. It took about seven months of load management. Hope the shot takes well for you!
RE the bolded: Touch point being where it touches on my chest?0 -
Yes, chest. Higher being towards your head ever so slightly. Once again its unclear with a single rep to judge. Just something if I saw repetively I might try to adjust and see how things move/feel.1
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How do you post videos?0
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allother94 wrote: »How do you post videos?
For me, the easiest way was to upload the video to YouTube and then post the link here.1 -
I’m new to these exercises. Please be gentle...
All 5 videos here: https://www.facebook.com/100041301323657
Links to each below...
https://www.facebook.com/100041301323657/posts/119870856066291?sfns=mo
https://www.facebook.com/100041301323657/posts/119870319399678?sfns=mo
https://www.facebook.com/100041301323657/posts/119866689400041?sfns=mo
https://www.facebook.com/100041301323657/posts/119867872733256?sfns=mo
https://www.facebook.com/100041301323657/posts/119869206066456?sfns=mo1 -
allother94 wrote: »I’m new to these exercises. Please be gentle...
All 5 videos here: https://www.facebook.com/100041301323657
Links to each below...
https://www.facebook.com/100041301323657/posts/119870856066291?sfns=mo
https://www.facebook.com/100041301323657/posts/119870319399678?sfns=mo
https://www.facebook.com/100041301323657/posts/119866689400041?sfns=mo
https://www.facebook.com/100041301323657/posts/119867872733256?sfns=mo
https://www.facebook.com/100041301323657/posts/119869206066456?sfns=mo
Ok, there will be a few things to work on. Don't get overwhelmed and think you have to fix all in one session. It takes a lot of reps to better ourselves. I'm going to list this things in order I'd like you correct or start cueing yourself before your attempts. One cue a day will be much more efficient on correcting issues.
Squat
1. Do not use plates under your heals. It isn't beneficial to correcting anything and can make balancing more difficult as weight progresses. I'd like you solid starting from the ground up.
2. This leads us into shoes. I prefer you using a sole without cushions that are squishy. Wrestling or soccer shoes are my cheaper preference. Chucks are cheap and can work for some people though it wouldn't be my first recommendation for squats but some do well with them. You might prefer to buy a pair of lifting shoes for squats which is always my first preference.
3. Lets drop the barbell down your back about .5-1" for a few sessions and see how it feels.
4. Hands should be gripped tight around the barbell to keep it from losing position and it also helps keep back tight for bracing the upper back. This might require you to move hands out at first until your mobility stretches in time with just normal reps and sessions.
5. Lets start by moving toes out about 15 degrees and adjust later if needed.
6. Google Valsalva maneuver and start practicing it before every rep.
7. When you break at your knees I want you to push knees out and forward at same time and keep them there. Knees should track over the toes which will put your femur at the same angle as your feet. Don't worry if this seems a bit hard at first. Just get knees out over your toes.
8. Practice, practice, and practice. Things will naturally get better over time and as weight increases. Our bodies are wonderful examples of adaptation.
Deadlifts
1. Shoes. Chucks are a decent option here especially since you are pulling conventional. If you have some other flat sole shoes use them for same reason we don't want squishy shoes for squats. As we grow stronger, squishy gym shoes start to compress more and then we start shifting our balance.
2. Before you lift a another rep. I'd like to see you more aware of your back. Particularly the extension of your lower lumbar. This might feel as if you are extremely arching at first. We want to try to achieve full extension if possible.
3. Youtube search "How to Deadlift: Starting Strength 5 step deadlift". It's one of the better videos on how to start from your experience. Alan in recent years has learned a lot from his former coach and in this video he recites what he learned very well. I think you would benefit from pulling the slack and setting your back with more extension the most.
I strongly suggest you post update videos here as you continue along every few weeks. With my help, we can be more efficient on correcting these issues.
Good luck!
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Thanks so much! I’ll practice this for a few weeks and post again!1
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In the interests of keeping you busy (and helping my squat), would you mind providing comments on my squat? These clips are of 2 reps @ about 91% of my 1rm, and 5 reps @ about 84% of my 1rm.
I don't think it's too bad in these videos, but I feel like you can see the bar glide forward over my toes as I hit depth (particularly in the side on video), and I feel the weight shift onto my toes from time to time (particularly as I fatigue), but I'm not sure how to fix it.
https://youtu.be/KhMl0fDyRkE
https://youtu.be/hqG6i0c4Cbs 2 -
In the interests of keeping you busy (and helping my squat), would you mind providing comments on my squat? These clips are of 2 reps @ about 91% of my 1rm, and 5 reps @ about 84% of my 1rm.
I don't think it's too bad in these videos, but I feel like you can see the bar glide forward over my toes as I hit depth (particularly in the side on video), and I feel the weight shift onto my toes from time to time (particularly as I fatigue), but I'm not sure how to fix it.https://youtu.be/KhMl0fDyRkEhttps://youtu.be/hqG6i0c4Cbs
At those percentages/rep range of 1RM I would hazard it's exactly what you mentioned fatigue of the set at near maximal intensity which is going to happen. It appears you just lose a tad of tightness right before depth in the hole. I would like to see a view directly from the front to rule out one thing when you revisit the near same RPE.
It's certainly nothing out of the ordinary considering the intensity relative to your 1RM and some great reps regardless.0 -
Thanks Chief, and I'll look into getting a front view at some point.1
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Just want to see if I'm seeing the right issues, @chieflrg. RPE 8, 3x1. This is the third set.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZK5KO6cj5E 2 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »Just want to see if I'm seeing the right issues, @chieflrg. RPE 8, 3x1. This is the third set.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZK5KO6cj5E
Hip height much more improved and knees staying still.
The only thing I would watch is over extending the back at lockout. Typically this will causes soft knees and could get yah a red light with the national judges in particular. Cue: Stand tall
Add the patience of holding your back angle in the first part of the lift like you did here and added practice I have a specific number you will pull on game day.
Very good third pull!
2 -
RPE 10 squat at 300 lbs (40 lb PR!!!). What do you think about the "folding in" of my upper body as I am in the upward movement, @Chieflrg? My coach is trying to train it out of me, but it always shows up at higher RPEs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd2_ZfcCDNI 0 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »RPE 10 squat at 300 lbs (40 lb PR!!!). What do you think about the "folding in" of my upper body as I am in the upward movement, @Chieflrg? My coach is trying to train it out of me, but it always shows up at higher RPEs.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd2_ZfcCDNI
First congrats on PR! 👍
Yeah, looks like your dive bombing a bit there and more than likely loosing tightness in the back or balance and falling onto your toes as the weight pulls you forward. It's has more to do where the barbell ends up entering the hole and just leaves you in a less optimal position.
I think 3-0-3 tempo and/or SSB could be very useful variations in this situation if programmed well.
What strategy is/has coach implimenting to "train it out" if you don't mind saying?
1 -
Do trap bar deadlifts count for this thread? And excuse my newbness but how do I post a video? Would just the URL work? Or is there a code?0
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Abs_magee89 wrote: »Do trap bar deadlifts count for this thread? And excuse my newbness but how do I post a video? Would just the URL work? Or is there a code?
Yes, any variations of deadlift, squats, and presses. Following the guidelines on initial post will be useful info for critiques purposes.
Just copy the URL/link of YouTube, Instagram, etc... and paste.1 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »RPE 10 squat at 300 lbs (40 lb PR!!!). What do you think about the "folding in" of my upper body as I am in the upward movement, @Chieflrg? My coach is trying to train it out of me, but it always shows up at higher RPEs.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd2_ZfcCDNI
First congrats on PR! 👍
Yeah, looks like your dive bombing a bit there and more than likely loosing tightness in the back or balance and falling onto your toes as the weight pulls you forward. It's has more to do where the barbell ends up entering the hole and just leaves you in a less optimal position.
I think 3-0-3 tempo and/or SSB could be very useful variations in this situation if programmed well.
What strategy is/has coach implimenting to "train it out" if you don't mind saying?
Hatfields and belt squats in this last training cycle, with some tempo on the belt. I didn't do any barbell squats since Nationals, and set this PR.
I have done a lot of SSB in past cycles, as well.
I do try to stay off my toes by doing "monkey toes". I can't remember if I moved up onto my toes on this one, or not.0
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