Help with 5 Month Plateau - Tried Everything
arisilbermann
Posts: 11 Member
Started fitness+weightloss Oct 2020. For the first 5 months I tried for -1000cal per day and lost 1-2kg per month. Since April 2021 I have been in a plateau. I tried a number of things for a few weeks each: upping protein, cutting carbs, exercising more (a lot more), dropping to -1500 then -2000 calorie per day, I tried changing exercise routines, I tried intermittent fasting, I tried a break from dieting. Nothing has got the scale or body measuremets to budge.
Tech details:
* my BMR is 1800 calories according to MFP
* I use a HR monitor with a garmin to track calories burned
* I weigh myself each day using bodyfat scale (not the most professional one though)
* I include calories burned directly from garmin each day into my net calorie count
* I avg about 4-5 hours jogging/cycling a week
* My body measurements are also plateaued
* I weigh almost all of my food on MFP
* One day a week I can't input for religious reasons but I don't go silly....
Surely something should be budging or should be wrong? Any help?
Tech details:
* my BMR is 1800 calories according to MFP
* I use a HR monitor with a garmin to track calories burned
* I weigh myself each day using bodyfat scale (not the most professional one though)
* I include calories burned directly from garmin each day into my net calorie count
* I avg about 4-5 hours jogging/cycling a week
* My body measurements are also plateaued
* I weigh almost all of my food on MFP
* One day a week I can't input for religious reasons but I don't go silly....
Surely something should be budging or should be wrong? Any help?
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Replies
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arisilbermann wrote: »* I weigh almost all of my food on MFP
That’s the first thing that jumps out at me. What are you not weighing? Condiments, sauces, spreads can be calorie laden.
I was serving lunch to a passle of artists at a street festival this weekend and we had several bottles of salad dressing. I’ve been a zero cal dressing user for ages now, so was staggered to see that these dressings were 150-180 calories per serving. And folks were just dumping them all over their little tong-ful of salad greens.
The classic comment here how shocked people were to see what a true, weighed serving of peanut butter is.
Are you counting soft drinks? Wine? Beer? Fancy coffee drinks?
I can’t make head nor tail of how you’re defining your calorie allotments above, so can’t comment as to that.6 -
It would help if you told us your height, age, current weight, and the nature of your job and exercise. (Fitness trackers are more reliable guides for some activities, vs. others.)
It would help if you'd open your MFP food diary, if only for a few days, so some of the experienced folks could assess the possibility of logging issues.
(That last is not a dig: Logging is a skill set that takes practice and refinement based on experience and learning. Since you're not getting the results you expect, that's one possible source of variation, so it would be helpful to either be able to suggest refinements to you that might help your data precision, or to rule out possibilities of logging being a significant source of variation. Calorie counting is a data-driven weight management method, the log is the main data, so some precision there can be helpful, if things aren't working out as expected).
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MFP doesn't calculate BMR, so where is that number coming from?
For the one day a week when you can't use the app - you don't have to get into the details if you don't want, but I'm assuming it's something along the lines of how orthodox Jews aren't supposed to "do any work" on their sabbath, which includes things like cooking or operating machinery like elevators, yeah? Can you log your day's food in advance, then just stick to that plan day-of? If you're not allowed to use your phone/computer at all during that time, maybe write down what you logged on paper the day before so you can refer to that. I've found a lot of success with planning/prepping/portioning things in advance, so in the moment I can just grab a container, eat what's in it, and know I've already budgeted those calories without having to think about it.6 -
goal06082021 wrote: »MFP doesn't calculate BMR, so where is that number coming from?
For the one day a week when you can't use the app - you don't have to get into the details if you don't want, but I'm assuming it's something along the lines of how orthodox Jews aren't supposed to "do any work" on their sabbath, which includes things like cooking or operating machinery like elevators, yeah? Can you log your day's food in advance, then just stick to that plan day-of? If you're not allowed to use your phone/computer at all during that time, maybe write down what you logged on paper the day before so you can refer to that. I've found a lot of success with planning/prepping/portioning things in advance, so in the moment I can just grab a container, eat what's in it, and know I've already budgeted those calories without having to think about it.
Not that it matters but you can calculate your bmr on here under apps and bmr.
In case anyone wants to.
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If you haven’t lost then you aren’t in a deficit. That day off is likely a culprit as you have no idea how much you are eating. Logging inaccuracies and oversetimating exercise calories also likely to contribute.
Change one of those things then reassess after about 4 weeks. For example, try and log the day you aren’t logging. You may be surprised at how much a day of eating all the things can cancel out a deficit. Especially if you don’t have a lot of weight to lose. Or try eating back less of your exercise calories.
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springlering62 wrote: »arisilbermann wrote: »* I weigh almost all of my food on MFP
That’s the first thing that jumps out at me. What are you not weighing? Condiments, sauces, spreads can be calorie laden.
I was serving lunch to a passle of artists at a street festival this weekend and we had several bottles of salad dressing. I’ve been a zero cal dressing user for ages now, so was staggered to see that these dressings were 150-180 calories per serving. And folks were just dumping them all over their little tong-ful of salad greens.
The classic comment here how shocked people were to see what a true, weighed serving of peanut butter is.
Are you counting soft drinks? Wine? Beer? Fancy coffee drinks?
I can’t make head nor tail of how you’re defining your calorie allotments above, so can’t comment as to that.
Thanks for this. I weigh most condiments and sometimes eyeball it. Counting softdrinks. Here and there I eyeball some things I have experience with...again my deficit is around -1000 so my eyeballing wouldn't be that wrong...0 -
It would help if you told us your height, age, current weight, and the nature of your job and exercise. (Fitness trackers are more reliable guides for some activities, vs. others.)
It would help if you'd open your MFP food diary, if only for a few days, so some of the experienced folks could assess the possibility of logging issues.
(That last is not a dig: Logging is a skill set that takes practice and refinement based on experience and learning. Since you're not getting the results you expect, that's one possible source of variation, so it would be helpful to either be able to suggest refinements to you that might help your data precision, or to rule out possibilities of logging being a significant source of variation. Calorie counting is a data-driven weight management method, the log is the main data, so some precision there can be helpful, if things aren't working out as expected).
Thanks for this. I've made it public. Height 171cm, weight 99kg (started at 109), using garmin connect and fr45 and h10hrm for tracking exercise. I do mainly desk work with some teaching although it's a standing desk. I set my mfp to maintain weight and then strive for the minus calories. I run/cycle about 3 times a week for about 1 hour and then agaim for about 2 hours. Usually low intensity jogging. Some strength work and speed work.
Any insights would be great. Thanks0 -
goal06082021 wrote: »MFP doesn't calculate BMR, so where is that number coming from?
For the one day a week when you can't use the app - you don't have to get into the details if you don't want, but I'm assuming it's something along the lines of how orthodox Jews aren't supposed to "do any work" on their sabbath, which includes things like cooking or operating machinery like elevators, yeah? Can you log your day's food in advance, then just stick to that plan day-of? If you're not allowed to use your phone/computer at all during that time, maybe write down what you logged on paper the day before so you can refer to that. I've found a lot of success with planning/prepping/portioning things in advance, so in the moment I can just grab a container, eat what's in it, and know I've already budgeted those calories without having to think about it.
Thanks. By BMR I mean the base calories which mfp has to which are added about 600 calories usually throughout day excluding exercise. I will try finding ways to stay on a plan on that day...but some thoughts - I still moderate my eating then, and it certainly can't be a calorie overshoot of 5000 calories...but I will do and report back thanks.0 -
cupcakesandproteinshakes wrote: »If you haven’t lost then you aren’t in a deficit. That day off is likely a culprit as you have no idea how much you are eating. Logging inaccuracies and oversetimating exercise calories also likely to contribute.
Change one of those things then reassess after about 4 weeks. For example, try and log the day you aren’t logging. You may be surprised at how much a day of eating all the things can cancel out a deficit. Especially if you don’t have a lot of weight to lose. Or try eating back less of your exercise calories.
Thanks. The day I don't log isn't a day off just unrecorded. But maybe that is the culprit. Do you think garmin connect with a chest strap is inaccurate? That may be. Also does anyone have ideas about level of inaccuracy of mfp? How to get around it?2 -
Good gravy 😮, you're in a deficit of 1,000 calories? I'd start feeling ill after a month after being in such a great deficit, and would probably give in to a serious binge and go back to my old ways. Not an expert here but, maybe a deficit as large as that can cause metabolic damage?
You've also stated you sometime go as much as -1,500 or even -2,000. Theres no way that can be good for you in any way. I'd be worried about your body burning its own muscle just to keep alive 😬0 -
@arisilbermann
What do you do for work? Is it labor-intensive? I see you are using a Garmin. The days where Garmin has given you 1100-2300 in exercise calories...I'd question that. Most people won't burn that much without several hours of sustained hard exercise. Take those numbers with caution.
Couple things:
1. Congratulations, you're eating at your Maintenance calories. So, cut lower than that, or really make sure your accuracy is dialed in.
2. Garmin (and Myfitnesspal) use standard algorithms to calculate. Your personal actual calorie usage may be higher or lower in reality. The technology is no substitute for your personal habits, accuracy and ability to adapt. So - do that! Accuracy, record-keeping and consistency. Give it a month then you'll have your own data-set from which to work.
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Profile says male
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What do you disagree with? Or did I misunderstand something?
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DeesPancakes wrote: »
What do you disagree with? Or did I misunderstand something?
I wasn't the one who disagreed, but perhaps this is the reason someone else did:
A 1000 calorie deficit can be excessive or not, depending on the circumstances. It's equivalent to a weight loss rate of 2lbs per week, which can be appropriate for some people. OP weighs 218 lbs, a rate of 2lbs per week isn't extreme if you go by the guideline of a weight loss rate of 0.5-1% of bodyweight per week.
And whether or not a deficit of 1000 calories will make someone feel ill and cause them to binge also depends on the circumstances (for example: a deficit of 1000 calories when your TDEE is 3000 calories isn't the same as a when your TDEE is 1600 calories).
Personally I agree though that a deficit of 1500 or 2000 doesn't sound like a good idea in this case.4 -
DeesPancakes wrote: »
What do you disagree with? Or did I misunderstand something?
I wasn't the one who disagreed, but perhaps this is the reason someone else did:
A 1000 calorie deficit can be excessive or not, depending on the circumstances. It's equivalent to a weight loss rate of 2lbs per week, which can be appropriate for some people. OP weighs 218 lbs, a rate of 2lbs per week isn't extreme if you go by the guideline of a weight loss rate of 0.5-1% of bodyweight per week.
And whether or not a deficit of 1000 calories will make someone feel ill and cause them to binge also depends on the circumstances (for example: a deficit of 1000 calories when your TDEE is 3000 calories isn't the same as a when your TDEE is 1600 calories).
Personally I agree though that a deficit of 1500 or 2000 doesn't sound like a good idea in this case.
Thanks for this thought. Some answers here suggested further cutting calories so that would take me to 1500 a day or more. Why do you think it isn't a good idea here? Do you thoughts about likely cause for my issue here?0 -
arisilbermann wrote: »DeesPancakes wrote: »
What do you disagree with? Or did I misunderstand something?
I wasn't the one who disagreed, but perhaps this is the reason someone else did:
A 1000 calorie deficit can be excessive or not, depending on the circumstances. It's equivalent to a weight loss rate of 2lbs per week, which can be appropriate for some people. OP weighs 218 lbs, a rate of 2lbs per week isn't extreme if you go by the guideline of a weight loss rate of 0.5-1% of bodyweight per week.
And whether or not a deficit of 1000 calories will make someone feel ill and cause them to binge also depends on the circumstances (for example: a deficit of 1000 calories when your TDEE is 3000 calories isn't the same as a when your TDEE is 1600 calories).
Personally I agree though that a deficit of 1500 or 2000 doesn't sound like a good idea in this case.
Thanks for this thought. Some answers here suggested further cutting calories so that would take me to 1500 a day or more. Why do you think it isn't a good idea here? Do you thoughts about likely cause for my issue here?
I was one who said, "Congrats, you're eating at Maintenance."
Because you are. If you haven't lost weight in five months, you have effectively established your Maintenance calories.
Your calorie intake/deficit...is only true IF
1. You are logging everything you eat (and even that off day) and you're using accurate food entries (that match the labels and/or a reputable nutrition list)
2. Your Garmin is set up correctly to give you a reasonable match to your daily Activity Level plus Exercise
Here: read this: https://support.myfitnesspal.com/hc/en-us/articles/360032625391-How-does-MyFitnessPal-calculate-my-initial-goals-
...and: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1080242/a-guide-to-get-you-started-on-your-path-to-sexypants/p1
My guess is that you aren't logging accurately, and/or you are counting on a number derived from a device or an online calculator. Do your own experiment over TIME, and use your own habits, logging and common sense to guide you after that. You can come up with your own numbers by this method. It's what we all have to do in the end. Online calculations and body devices are helpful and not helpful, depending on your individual usage.4 -
arisilbermann wrote: »DeesPancakes wrote: »
What do you disagree with? Or did I misunderstand something?
I wasn't the one who disagreed, but perhaps this is the reason someone else did:
A 1000 calorie deficit can be excessive or not, depending on the circumstances. It's equivalent to a weight loss rate of 2lbs per week, which can be appropriate for some people. OP weighs 218 lbs, a rate of 2lbs per week isn't extreme if you go by the guideline of a weight loss rate of 0.5-1% of bodyweight per week.
And whether or not a deficit of 1000 calories will make someone feel ill and cause them to binge also depends on the circumstances (for example: a deficit of 1000 calories when your TDEE is 3000 calories isn't the same as a when your TDEE is 1600 calories).
Personally I agree though that a deficit of 1500 or 2000 doesn't sound like a good idea in this case.
Thanks for this thought. Some answers here suggested further cutting calories so that would take me to 1500 a day or more. Why do you think it isn't a good idea here? Do you thoughts about likely cause for my issue here?
To make sure we're talking about the same thing: I'm talking about your calorie deficit - the difference between total calories burned in a day and how many calories you're actually consuming. A deficit of 1500 is the equivalent of losing 3lbs/1.4kg a week, which is too agressive for someone who weighs 99kg.
The problem is, of course, that what I'm saying relates to your actual TDEE and calorie consumption. If you're using your Garmin as a starting point for your TDEE, it may or may not be accurate (greater or smaller actual deficit). And if your logging isn't accurate, that could also make your deficit greater or smaller than intended. So that's where the idea comes from to cut calories: you're burning less than you think/consuming more than you think and your deficit isn't what you think it is.
You also mention trying a series of strategies to get out of your plateau, but I'm wondering if you stuck to them long enough. Sometimes it takes more than a few weeks to spot progress between the normal daily weight fluctuations.2 -
arisilbermann wrote: »DeesPancakes wrote: »
What do you disagree with? Or did I misunderstand something?
I wasn't the one who disagreed, but perhaps this is the reason someone else did:
A 1000 calorie deficit can be excessive or not, depending on the circumstances. It's equivalent to a weight loss rate of 2lbs per week, which can be appropriate for some people. OP weighs 218 lbs, a rate of 2lbs per week isn't extreme if you go by the guideline of a weight loss rate of 0.5-1% of bodyweight per week.
And whether or not a deficit of 1000 calories will make someone feel ill and cause them to binge also depends on the circumstances (for example: a deficit of 1000 calories when your TDEE is 3000 calories isn't the same as a when your TDEE is 1600 calories).
Personally I agree though that a deficit of 1500 or 2000 doesn't sound like a good idea in this case.
Thanks for this thought. Some answers here suggested further cutting calories so that would take me to 1500 a day or more. Why do you think it isn't a good idea here? Do you thoughts about likely cause for my issue here?
To make sure we're talking about the same thing: I'm talking about your calorie deficit - the difference between total calories burned in a day and how many calories you're actually consuming. A deficit of 1500 is the equivalent of losing 3lbs/1.4kg a week, which is too agressive for someone who weighs 99kg.
The problem is, of course, that what I'm saying relates to your actual TDEE and calorie consumption. If you're using your Garmin as a starting point for your TDEE, it may or may not be accurate (greater or smaller actual deficit). And if your logging isn't accurate, that could also make your deficit greater or smaller than intended. So that's where the idea comes from to cut calories: you're burning less than you think/consuming more than you think and your deficit isn't what you think it is.
You also mention trying a series of strategies to get out of your plateau, but I'm wondering if you stuck to them long enough. Sometimes it takes more than a few weeks to spot progress between the normal daily weight fluctuations.
Yes I hear what your saying...going on my first 5 months when I was at a (theoretical mfp/garmin) deficit of 1000 calories per day or say 6000 per week give or take I lost 1-2kg per month. That means very roughly that my actual deficit was more like 10000 calories a month and say 2500 a week or 300-400 a day. So it could just be that I've plateaued because of minor changes and therefore need to increase my 'theoretical mfp/garmin' deficit to 1500 but which may be more like 500 or 600 in real terms...4 -
arisilbermann wrote: »DeesPancakes wrote: »
What do you disagree with? Or did I misunderstand something?
I wasn't the one who disagreed, but perhaps this is the reason someone else did:
A 1000 calorie deficit can be excessive or not, depending on the circumstances. It's equivalent to a weight loss rate of 2lbs per week, which can be appropriate for some people. OP weighs 218 lbs, a rate of 2lbs per week isn't extreme if you go by the guideline of a weight loss rate of 0.5-1% of bodyweight per week.
And whether or not a deficit of 1000 calories will make someone feel ill and cause them to binge also depends on the circumstances (for example: a deficit of 1000 calories when your TDEE is 3000 calories isn't the same as a when your TDEE is 1600 calories).
Personally I agree though that a deficit of 1500 or 2000 doesn't sound like a good idea in this case.
Thanks for this thought. Some answers here suggested further cutting calories so that would take me to 1500 a day or more. Why do you think it isn't a good idea here? Do you thoughts about likely cause for my issue here?
You did say your bmr was 1,800 calories per day, so a deficit of 1,500 - 2,000 calories per day would put you at a total consumption of between 300 and negative 200, daily... which is pretty much starvation. I must be missing something here. There's no way people operate on 300 to -200 calories, daily. You'd eventually pass out.1 -
DeesPancakes wrote: »arisilbermann wrote: »DeesPancakes wrote: »
What do you disagree with? Or did I misunderstand something?
I wasn't the one who disagreed, but perhaps this is the reason someone else did:
A 1000 calorie deficit can be excessive or not, depending on the circumstances. It's equivalent to a weight loss rate of 2lbs per week, which can be appropriate for some people. OP weighs 218 lbs, a rate of 2lbs per week isn't extreme if you go by the guideline of a weight loss rate of 0.5-1% of bodyweight per week.
And whether or not a deficit of 1000 calories will make someone feel ill and cause them to binge also depends on the circumstances (for example: a deficit of 1000 calories when your TDEE is 3000 calories isn't the same as a when your TDEE is 1600 calories).
Personally I agree though that a deficit of 1500 or 2000 doesn't sound like a good idea in this case.
Thanks for this thought. Some answers here suggested further cutting calories so that would take me to 1500 a day or more. Why do you think it isn't a good idea here? Do you thoughts about likely cause for my issue here?
You did say your bmr was 1,800 calories per day, so a deficit of 1,500 - 2,000 calories per day would put you at a total consumption of between 300 and negative 200, daily... which is pretty much starvation. I must be missing something here. There's no way people operate on 300 to -200 calories, daily. You'd eventually pass out.
The calorie deficit is subtracted from the TDEE, not from the BMR.5 -
DeesPancakes wrote: »arisilbermann wrote: »DeesPancakes wrote: »
What do you disagree with? Or did I misunderstand something?
I wasn't the one who disagreed, but perhaps this is the reason someone else did:
A 1000 calorie deficit can be excessive or not, depending on the circumstances. It's equivalent to a weight loss rate of 2lbs per week, which can be appropriate for some people. OP weighs 218 lbs, a rate of 2lbs per week isn't extreme if you go by the guideline of a weight loss rate of 0.5-1% of bodyweight per week.
And whether or not a deficit of 1000 calories will make someone feel ill and cause them to binge also depends on the circumstances (for example: a deficit of 1000 calories when your TDEE is 3000 calories isn't the same as a when your TDEE is 1600 calories).
Personally I agree though that a deficit of 1500 or 2000 doesn't sound like a good idea in this case.
Thanks for this thought. Some answers here suggested further cutting calories so that would take me to 1500 a day or more. Why do you think it isn't a good idea here? Do you thoughts about likely cause for my issue here?
You did say your bmr was 1,800 calories per day, so a deficit of 1,500 - 2,000 calories per day would put you at a total consumption of between 300 and negative 200, daily... which is pretty much starvation. I must be missing something here. There's no way people operate on 300 to -200 calories, daily. You'd eventually pass out.
BMR is the calories you burn in a coma. Any activity increases calorie burn/output. So if she's walking around, doing exercise, working an even remotely physical job, just living and doing things in life her actual calorie burn is going to be higher by quite a lot. Meaning that subtracting her deficit could still well leave her a lot of calories to live on/not starvation.3 -
4-5 hrs weekly jogging/cycling.
Garmin is usually pretty decent about jogging calories, as they calculate by distance and HR, but give more weight to the distance estimate.
But if say your HRmax as input on Garmin is way off, you could be getting badly inflated calorie burn there.
And that effect would be even worse for cycling as that is all by HR-calc unless you have a power meter that is giving better info and being used.
Many 1.5-2 hrs rides during the summer, my Garmin estimated calories was 700-900 inflated over the power meter (mine doesn't integrate, I have to manually correct).
Last night cool temp and lower HR finally saw it only 200 inflated.
Couple of workouts like that, inflated like that - where did your on-paper deficit go?
Running is still tad inflated for me using strictly calculation based burn, which can be much more accurate than HR-based.
Go back to some recent workouts and see what this calc says the Gross burn would be. (net would be if you had no tracker synced to MFP and logging manually on MFP, not to use now for comparison).
https://exrx.net/Calculators/WalkRunMETs
Any other workouts?
Outside of exercise, what is your step count and average daily distance?
Any walking you log as a workout, or you allow to auto-start as a workout?
Walking is a known case of inflated HR-based calorie burn, much better for calories to be tracked as just normal distance for the day.
Unless newer watches have changed something, the per second HR and using HR-based calorie burn only happens during a workout. The FirstBeat technology they use in some devices (haven't kept up which ones) even has a white paper describing how it's wrong usage for daily level activity.0 -
arisilbermann wrote: »arisilbermann wrote: »DeesPancakes wrote: »
What do you disagree with? Or did I misunderstand something?
I wasn't the one who disagreed, but perhaps this is the reason someone else did:
A 1000 calorie deficit can be excessive or not, depending on the circumstances. It's equivalent to a weight loss rate of 2lbs per week, which can be appropriate for some people. OP weighs 218 lbs, a rate of 2lbs per week isn't extreme if you go by the guideline of a weight loss rate of 0.5-1% of bodyweight per week.
And whether or not a deficit of 1000 calories will make someone feel ill and cause them to binge also depends on the circumstances (for example: a deficit of 1000 calories when your TDEE is 3000 calories isn't the same as a when your TDEE is 1600 calories).
Personally I agree though that a deficit of 1500 or 2000 doesn't sound like a good idea in this case.
Thanks for this thought. Some answers here suggested further cutting calories so that would take me to 1500 a day or more. Why do you think it isn't a good idea here? Do you thoughts about likely cause for my issue here?
To make sure we're talking about the same thing: I'm talking about your calorie deficit - the difference between total calories burned in a day and how many calories you're actually consuming. A deficit of 1500 is the equivalent of losing 3lbs/1.4kg a week, which is too agressive for someone who weighs 99kg.
The problem is, of course, that what I'm saying relates to your actual TDEE and calorie consumption. If you're using your Garmin as a starting point for your TDEE, it may or may not be accurate (greater or smaller actual deficit). And if your logging isn't accurate, that could also make your deficit greater or smaller than intended. So that's where the idea comes from to cut calories: you're burning less than you think/consuming more than you think and your deficit isn't what you think it is.
You also mention trying a series of strategies to get out of your plateau, but I'm wondering if you stuck to them long enough. Sometimes it takes more than a few weeks to spot progress between the normal daily weight fluctuations.
Yes I hear what your saying...going on my first 5 months when I was at a (theoretical mfp/garmin) deficit of 1000 calories per day or say 6000 per week give or take I lost 1-2kg per month. That means very roughly that my actual deficit was more like 10000 calories a month and say 2500 a week or 300-400 a day. So it could just be that I've plateaued because of minor changes and therefore need to increase my 'theoretical mfp/garmin' deficit to 1500 but which may be more like 500 or 600 in real terms...
I'd suggest figure out the tweaks so the device can keep being used as seasons and activity level changes.
Or perhaps your workouts stay about the same no matter what, and daily activity.
Do you see step count changes much?0 -
So how many calories do you actually eat in a day on average? Ignoring all outgoings - what are the actual ingoings?1
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DeesPancakes wrote: »arisilbermann wrote: »DeesPancakes wrote: »
What do you disagree with? Or did I misunderstand something?
I wasn't the one who disagreed, but perhaps this is the reason someone else did:
A 1000 calorie deficit can be excessive or not, depending on the circumstances. It's equivalent to a weight loss rate of 2lbs per week, which can be appropriate for some people. OP weighs 218 lbs, a rate of 2lbs per week isn't extreme if you go by the guideline of a weight loss rate of 0.5-1% of bodyweight per week.
And whether or not a deficit of 1000 calories will make someone feel ill and cause them to binge also depends on the circumstances (for example: a deficit of 1000 calories when your TDEE is 3000 calories isn't the same as a when your TDEE is 1600 calories).
Personally I agree though that a deficit of 1500 or 2000 doesn't sound like a good idea in this case.
Thanks for this thought. Some answers here suggested further cutting calories so that would take me to 1500 a day or more. Why do you think it isn't a good idea here? Do you thoughts about likely cause for my issue here?
You did say your bmr was 1,800 calories per day, so a deficit of 1,500 - 2,000 calories per day would put you at a total consumption of between 300 and negative 200, daily... which is pretty much starvation. I must be missing something here. There's no way people operate on 300 to -200 calories, daily. You'd eventually pass out.
What the others said - but BMR + avg day for me brings it to about 2400 according to MFP. Then add to that exercise 4 times a week that can shoot it up another 500-1000 depending on the day.. So 1500-2000 deficit is theoretically possible for me on exercise days0 -
Pipsqueak1965 wrote: »So how many calories do you actually eat in a day on average? Ignoring all outgoings - what are the actual ingoings?
Looking at the MFP for the past 90 days looks like usually around 1700-2000 calories per day. Sometimes less sometimes a bit more but usually that range.0 -
4-5 hrs weekly jogging/cycling.
Garmin is usually pretty decent about jogging calories, as they calculate by distance and HR, but give more weight to the distance estimate.
But if say your HRmax as input on Garmin is way off, you could be getting badly inflated calorie burn there.
And that effect would be even worse for cycling as that is all by HR-calc unless you have a power meter that is giving better info and being used.
Many 1.5-2 hrs rides during the summer, my Garmin estimated calories was 700-900 inflated over the power meter (mine doesn't integrate, I have to manually correct).
Last night cool temp and lower HR finally saw it only 200 inflated.
Couple of workouts like that, inflated like that - where did your on-paper deficit go?
Running is still tad inflated for me using strictly calculation based burn, which can be much more accurate than HR-based.
Go back to some recent workouts and see what this calc says the Gross burn would be. (net would be if you had no tracker synced to MFP and logging manually on MFP, not to use now for comparison).
https://exrx.net/Calculators/WalkRunMETs
Any other workouts?
Outside of exercise, what is your step count and average daily distance?
Any walking you log as a workout, or you allow to auto-start as a workout?
Walking is a known case of inflated HR-based calorie burn, much better for calories to be tracked as just normal distance for the day.
Unless newer watches have changed something, the per second HR and using HR-based calorie burn only happens during a workout. The FirstBeat technology they use in some devices (haven't kept up which ones) even has a white paper describing how it's wrong usage for daily level activity.
I don't log walking or anything like that - just let garmin+MFP take care of the step calibrations between them. On non exercise days usually 5000-10000 steps depending. For HR I always use a heart strap so that should be quite accurate...or am I wrong? Ill have a look at the calc0 -
arisilbermann wrote: »4-5 hrs weekly jogging/cycling.
Garmin is usually pretty decent about jogging calories, as they calculate by distance and HR, but give more weight to the distance estimate.
But if say your HRmax as input on Garmin is way off, you could be getting badly inflated calorie burn there.
And that effect would be even worse for cycling as that is all by HR-calc unless you have a power meter that is giving better info and being used.
Many 1.5-2 hrs rides during the summer, my Garmin estimated calories was 700-900 inflated over the power meter (mine doesn't integrate, I have to manually correct).
Last night cool temp and lower HR finally saw it only 200 inflated.
Couple of workouts like that, inflated like that - where did your on-paper deficit go?
Running is still tad inflated for me using strictly calculation based burn, which can be much more accurate than HR-based.
Go back to some recent workouts and see what this calc says the Gross burn would be. (net would be if you had no tracker synced to MFP and logging manually on MFP, not to use now for comparison).
https://exrx.net/Calculators/WalkRunMETs
Any other workouts?
Outside of exercise, what is your step count and average daily distance?
Any walking you log as a workout, or you allow to auto-start as a workout?
Walking is a known case of inflated HR-based calorie burn, much better for calories to be tracked as just normal distance for the day.
Unless newer watches have changed something, the per second HR and using HR-based calorie burn only happens during a workout. The FirstBeat technology they use in some devices (haven't kept up which ones) even has a white paper describing how it's wrong usage for daily level activity.
I don't log walking or anything like that - just let garmin+MFP take care of the step calibrations between them. On non exercise days usually 5000-10000 steps depending. For HR I always use a heart strap so that should be quite accurate...or am I wrong? Ill have a look at the calc
It's not a matter of getting an accurate HR (unless using an optical sensor, and that almost has issues going the other direction - missing high HR), but rather the calculation for calories from that.
One simple aspect to those calculations is the HRmax figure.
Say Garmin still has the default HRmax set to 220-age, say 40 years old, so 180 HRmax is set.
What burns more for a workout, getting an avgHR of 140 (78% of HRmax), or 160 (89% of HRmax)?
Of course the higher.
Now, what if you indeed get an avg 160, but your HRmax is in reality 200.
Garmin thinks workout was 89% of HRmax, but it was actually 80%.
That's inflated calorie burn.
In my case 168 would be calculated HRmax, reality is about 190 now.
My ride Sat would be either 89% uncorrected or 79% corrected - that would have made inflated values worse.
There's more to the calculation (for instance assuming a higher BMI is a lower fitness level for VO2max), so bad HRmax figure isn't the whole reason, but could help estimates.
As to daily walking, extra calories is based on distance the steps take you, not merely a steps figure.
So comparing a known distance walk to what the Garmin sees might be useful - but you don't have a huge amount of steps that I think that would be an issue.
With Garmin you'd have to look at daily distance and steps, do your walk, and get ending distance and steps to compute if right on.
Suggest avg daily pace around 1.8 mph - which will seem slow.
Again, you don't have so many steps I'd do that process unless easy to work into schedule some day.
For the workout running - GPS is used for that right?1
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