The Latest Trend is Fasting: What say you?

cwolfman13 · January 2022

For starters, "breakfast is the most important meal of the day" was coined by the Kellogg corporation, there weren't any experts involved. It was just a marketing slogan.

IF is just a tool which may help people better maintain their calories. Studies on the health benefits of IF, if any are pretty inconclusive and more or less in their infancy. I have done IF at various times throughout my life and have gained weight, maintained weight, and lost weight depending on my overall calorie intake. For most of my weight gain years I inadvertently practiced IF as I never used to consume anything before my lunch except black coffee...but my lunches, snacking, and dinners were large. My personal preference now is 3 meals per day with an afternoon snack. I do tend to skip breakfast if I know I'm going to have higher calories later in the day...like if we're planning to go out or we're attending some kind of party or something as it helps keep calories in check.

sijomial · January 2022

Talking of studies.....
This is an interesting one that seems well designed, good size sample and duration.
It was also run by a fasting enthusiast (time restricted eating version) .

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2771095

Highlights:
Time Restricted Eating....
Showed more moss of lean mass compared to eating in a more time-balanced way.
Showed a spontaneous reduction in activity
Showed no advantage (or disadvantage) as regards resting metabolic rate. The common claim of boosted metabolism doesn't seem evidence-based.

Here's a review of the study including some suggestions that might mitigate or avoid the lean mass and activity issues.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o_Qd7tcB3E

(What say I? Personally I will continue mostly skipping breakfast as it makes my weight maintenance easier and more enjoyable.)

Xellercin · January 2022

RobertaMoore2022 wrote: »

What I personally think...
I am from South of Italy, and my maternal grandparents were from Apulia. My granddad died of Alzheimer at 82, otherwise he was very very healthy, his wife my grandma died at 97, she got diabetes type 2 after menopause, although she had quite a healthy diet.

ANYWAY, when they were young they used to fast, not because they wanted to, but it was the II world war, there was poverty before it and after. My grandad's family was of farm workers (not owner of land!) and they used to have No breakfast at all or just soup (yeah, vegetables and that is it). They did not have it for breakfast, they used to go to bed at 9, wake up at 4, work until 12 and then have "breakfast" which was...soup and maybe, MAYBE a piece of bread (sometimes stale). They were all slim..but they were healthy?
Not sure.

Luckily enough, they managed to get passed the War, got better jobs and had a healthy diet, but still, breakfast..meh. maybe a coffee (home made), rarely milk and never ever croissants. I think they never had that.

So I think there's a need to divide between the WILL to fast, the NEED to fast (for medical reason) and well, Fasting because you do not have food.

We have food, plenty. Food is accessible and yes, junk food is even cheaper than proper food in some countries (and I am not talking of 2nd or 3rd world countries- I hate this distinction, but it is to explain myself better). When I was living in central London, I remember that buying fresh fennel would cost me 1.50 pound per piece (back in 2019), and the same in central Dublin, when I moved there. Here In Italy, you can buy 1 kg fennel for max 4 euro (so at least 4 or 5 pieces). Junk Food in London was way too cheap, and in Dublin too, in Italy you have junk food but is as expensive as good food. So I am not sure why, but still, processed food in some countries is cheaper than whole food.
So yes, we have plenty of food, and we feel the need to fast. Why?

Do we need to fast to lose weight? Would not not eat better to eat properly during the day, the 5 meals a day rule (not my opinion, doctors ' opinion!), than skip breakfast ?
Why do we need to workout on an empty stomach?To better perform? To burn more calorie?
And then, how do we feel after working out on an empty stomach, first thing in the morning?

I personally can't do it. I tried, but I can't. In the morning, I am hungry. I suffer from PCOS and Hypersulinism, and in the morning I need fuel. I can skip lunch, to be honest, and have an early dinner, but this does not count as fasting.

That said, I would love to go to a retreat to do fasting, meditation, reading, walks, swim, massages, Spa treatments.. Yet I do not have 5 k to fast

ps: sorry, my English got worse since I got back to Italy

There's a huge difference between intermittent fasting and starving.

What I like about intermittent fasting compared to eating multiple very low calorie meals a day to lose weight is that I feel LESS deprived.

I eat one meal a day, but man do I eat during that meal. I just pile my plate high with whatever sounds tasty and I go to town on it. I find it much more satisfying than eating 3 small meals a day. Plus I can eat significantly more calories now than I could when I was eating multiple times a day.

So for me, IF is the exact *opposite* of starving.

The rest of the day, I'm just not hungry. Because I'm not starving and underweight like many Europeans during WWII, my body slips into ketosis and uses the ample fat supplies that I have to keep me highly energized.

In fact, I've had to move my eating window to the evening because the ketones were so energizing, they were giving me insomnia if I ate in the morning. Now a big evening meal is a surefire way to get me all happy and sleepy by bedtime.

As for exercise, yeah, it was hard for exercise fasted for the first few weeks, but like almost every other IFer I know, once I adapted, I now would never eat before exercise. It's WAY easier to exercise while fasted.

I don't know if everyone adapts after a month or two, but I know that you couldn't pay me to go back to eating multiple times a day. I don't do this because I feel I have to to lose weight. I do this because I significantly prefer it as a lifestyle.

And that's speaking as someone who already had a very healthy, whole food, plant based diet that I enjoyed. IF for me is just so much better.

Xellercin · January 2022

cwolfman13 wrote: »

For starters, "breakfast is the most important meal of the day" was coined by the Kellogg corporation, there weren't any experts involved. It was just a marketing slogan.

IF is just a tool which may help people better maintain their calories. Studies on the health benefits of IF, if any are pretty inconclusive and more or less in their infancy. I have done IF at various times throughout my life and have gained weight, maintained weight, and lost weight depending on my overall calorie intake. For most of my weight gain years I inadvertently practiced IF as I never used to consume anything before my lunch except black coffee...but my lunches, snacking, and dinners were large. My personal preference now is 3 meals per day with an afternoon snack. I do tend to skip breakfast if I know I'm going to have higher calories later in the day...like if we're planning to go out or we're attending some kind of party or something as it helps keep calories in check.

This is also true.

As much as I love IF, it's also kind of how I gained weight in the first place...sort of.

During med school, we were going 100hr work weeks and I never had time to eat. So I would get home from the hospital, eat way too much pizza from the place in my building, and then wash it down with 3-4 glasses of wine most nights.

I gained only a pound or two a month, but over 4 years, that adds up to obese.

IF can't compensate for a terrible diet and too much alcohol. It's not magic. Granted, it was never actually IF, because I was drinking coffee all day long with cream in it. But still, black coffee 16 hours a day wouldn't have miraculously saved me from gaining weight on a diet of pizza and wine.

I love IF now, because it's just a really great refinement of an already on-point diet.

That said, on fasting forums, many people have reported that their appetite and food choices have gotten healthier since starting IF. That they've eliminated sugar cravings, binge episodes, and start craving a lot more vegetables.

So that effect for some people alone would be a massive benefit, and have a huge impact on weight.

JBanx256 · January 2022

For me personally, IF just ain't my thing. I usually train first thing after I wake up and I perform much better with at least a couple hundred calories in me before I am out the door to head to the gym. Most of my meals are on the small-ish side (then again, I am in a cut, so take that with a grain of salt!), with one larger meal (usually dinner), and then a small bedtime meal/snack just before turning in, so generally 4-5 meals/snacks throughout the day. But once again, that's just me and how I do things.

HelPur25 · January 2022

I've done IF, alt day, and a longer water fast in the past, each for different reasons. I like 16:8 IF in general on a regular basis because otherwise I snack too much in the evening. Keeping all my meals in an 8 hr window helps me control total calories. It's also taught me to recognize true hunger vs. boredom or stress eating. I've used alt day fasting to get through a weight loss stall. The longer water fast was for other health issues, but in general, I feel like I lost muscle and my metabolism decreased, so I wouldn't recommend it unless you have a really specific reason for doing it besides weight loss. I gained back all that I lost once I started eating again, only it's not muscle now.

carlorie_deficit · January 2022

Personally I like it, its not superior to any diet because all diets require a deficit to work if we are talking weight loss

I like IF because it tailors well to my lifestyle and I just find it easy, I think some of the benefits that people claim you get from IF is true, like I feel mental clarity, less brain fog, less hunger, more control over calories etc, but again, its down to the individual

Peppegal · January 2022

I started the fasting and more fiber the end of December. I started losing more weight because it was so slow I half a pound a week before Christmas. It was so frustrating I just said I have to make a change somehow so my son directed me to fasting. Honestly, I just didn't think I could do it.
When I check my nutrition I realize I was having enough protein and probably still don't but my fiber content is way up. The fiber is allowing me to go longer without eating. For me it goes hand-in-hand.

paperpudding · January 2022

@Peppegal - according to your profile you only have 7lb left to lose
Correct me if this is wrong and 7lb is a mini goal rather than to your end goal

if it is to your end goal, 1/2 lb per week is good rate at that stage.

If IF suits you, that's great - but I dont think you needed to change to it to up your loss rate because 1/2 lb is 'so frustrating'

amfmmama · February 2022

IF is not magic for me, but it does help me stay on track, and provides structure. I am a teacher, an rarely have time to eat anything until at least 11 am on a weekday anyway... so why not. 16:8 is also really just the old "do not eat after 7" with a different name, and people still swear by that.

lemurcat2 · February 2022

Except it's not -- many people do 16:8 and eat late. Personally, looking back at my own weight loss success, I would swear by ignoring the don't eat after 7 advice. Making things simple and figuring out what worked for me was important in that, and I usually worked until 7 and even when I didn't often worked out after work and then commuted home. So if I had stressed about a pointless rule like not eating after 7, it would have derailed me -- I would have worried about whether it was hopeless anyway or tried to find a way to eat dinner at work (which would have interfered with my enjoyment of eating and ability to have fresh cooked meals, etc.). As it was, I went with the schedule that worked for me, logged, saw results, and realized that for me eating around 9 worked great as I was never hungry before bed and could easily stick with my own preferred (not saying anyone else should prefer it) plan to eat only at meals, no snacking.

Anyway, I did a form of IF for a while when it fit my schedule, as I can basically take or leave breakfast. I'm back to eating 3x/day, no snacks, since I find that fits my preferences better, at least with my current schedule and nutrition goals. I can see why it would be helpful for some, but I don't see it as any different in kind or having greater effects than any other schedule that helps someone (for those of us who find schedules useful in controlling cals).

Thewonderofitall · February 2022

I believe that IF has helped me lose weight! I started my quest at 239 pounds. By just diet adjustment and exercise alone, I got down to about 170 lbs. I really wanted to get centered in my BMI index at 155. I started doing 16:8 IF the five work days of the week last Spring. I really didn't think this would be possible as for years if I didn't eat within a half an hour of getting up in the morning my stomach would be messed up for the whole day. It was tough the first week to skip breakfast. As I went along it got easier and I started doing a 23 hour fast on Wednesday's. I had read about autophogy and thought I'd give it a try. There's some debate whether autophagy takes place in 23 hours, but I tried it anyhow. It wasn't all that hard! I did drink a lot of water however. Then just to prove to myself that I could do it, I did a 47 hour fast! Once again, it wasn't all that hard and indeed as they said would happen, I really felt great the last 8 hours! I found it important to understand that food does not make you or rule you and that you posses the power to control consumption.

I managed to not only meet my goal of 155 lbs, but my all time low is 152.3 lbs! Now that the cold weather has arrived with Winter, I have found myself much hungrier in the morning. Seeing as I'm down to around 18% body fat and lifting weights more, I am now going to start with "protein shakes" in the morning and will adjust my calories through the rest of the day to allow this.

Stay tuned...

AnnPT77 · February 2022

lemurcat2 wrote: »

Except it's not -- many people do 16:8 and eat late. Personally, looking back at my own weight loss success, I would swear by ignoring the don't eat after 7 advice. Making things simple and figuring out what worked for me was important in that, and I usually worked until 7 and even when I didn't often worked out after work and then commuted home. So if I had stressed about a pointless rule like not eating after 7, it would have derailed me -- I would have worried about whether it was hopeless anyway or tried to find a way to eat dinner at work (which would have interfered with my enjoyment of eating and ability to have fresh cooked meals, etc.). As it was, I went with the schedule that worked for me, logged, saw results, and realized that for me eating around 9 worked great as I was never hungry before bed and could easily stick with my own preferred (not saying anyone else should prefer it) plan to eat only at meals, no snacking.

Anyway, I did a form of IF for a while when it fit my schedule, as I can basically take or leave breakfast. I'm back to eating 3x/day, no snacks, since I find that fits my preferences better, at least with my current schedule and nutrition goals. I can see why it would be helpful for some, but I don't see it as any different in kind or having greater effects than any other schedule that helps someone (for those of us who find schedules useful in controlling cals).

This is not a disagreement with the post quoted (I agree with it), just continuing this line of conversation with an opinion/observation.

I've seen some posts here on MFP sometimes that say "I lost weight immediately when I stopped eating after 7" (or 6, 8, whatever), and in the course of the post/thread, it becomes clear that the person does AM weigh-ins.

Speaking as a person who never does IF (unpleasant and unnecessary for me), and who often eats a big dinner very late, shortly before bed . . . eating a large volume, very late, does increase my morning weight, compared to rare days when I stop eating earlier for some reason. However, eating early or late makes zero difference in my longer-term weight trend or weight range, that I've ever observed over almost 7 continuous years of calorie counting.

I do occasionally step on the scale at other times of day (not out of obsession, but curiosity about exercise hydration or whatever), and on days when my morning weight is high from a big, late meal the day before, I'll see a lower weight sometime later in the day. It's about the fluctuation in digestive contents on their way to becoming waste, nothing about body fat changes.

I'm far from arguing that this is true for everyone who IFs - a strategy I think is reasonable for those whom it suits - but I do think a few people are deceived into believing that IF has special weight-loss effects, from this kind of observation. It's somewhat similar to people thinking they've regained fat or are in a stall/plateau when it becomes clear after discussion that they're seeing a water weight jump, and misinterpreting it as fat regain or stalled loss.

Repeating: I think IF is fine as a strategy for those it suits (though I have reservations about multi-day water fasts' impact on optimal well-being), and I don't think every IF-er is misinterpreting food/waste fluctuations as body fat changes. I think it happens sometimes, and can contribute to some people perceiving IF as having special weight-loss powers.

Nicoles0305 · March 2022

I have been IFing since 2014. I love it. Back then, I tipped the scales at just under 400lbs. I’m now 183lbs. IF alone had worked for a while, but once I got closer to goal, I had to start fine tuning. I got to 165 once, then started gaining, until I hit about 220. I stayed there for about 2 years before I got pregnant and spent the subsequent year not really adhering to any kind of IF plan. Now I’m going on 3 years post baby, and I’ve gone from my post pregnancy weight of 287 to 183 in that time.

What I’ve learned over the years is that too much fasting- IE one meal a day or extended fasting- makes me overeat. Eating too little in a day, regardless if I’m IFing or not, triggers my food addiction. So for me, IF provides me great structure, and the feeling of not really “dieting” when I follow a two meal, 16:8-19:5 plan. I get to eat two rather large meals- typically 600-800 calories a piece- which negates any feelings of deprivation. However, I also have to make sure I’m eating enough, as I have had experiences in eating too little in my window for an extended period of time that backfired. It led me to overeating and probably even bingeing quite a few times. So for me, it’s a matter of finding the right balance. I love IF and do not enjoy the way I feel if I eat all day long anymore. I feel sluggish and nauseous. IF gives me energy, the structure I need, and the feeling of not being deprived that I have had in the past when dieting without IF.

I know it’s not for everyone, but it is for me.

milk_n_cookies · March 2022

it rlly depends on the person. i'm muslim & we fast for around 16 hrs in ramadan but eat towards the end of the day. ++ i have an eating disorder that's restrictive and i fast because of it (as in full days no food which yes i'm aware is totally wrong) and i think the way i do it is v unhealthy, going something like 100 hrs with no food etc is not good at all but i think fasting is nice if there;s an eating window in the same day

ccrdragon · March 2022

Thewonderofitall wrote: »

I believe that IF has helped me lose weight! I started my quest at 239 pounds. By just diet adjustment and exercise alone, I got down to about 170 lbs. I really wanted to get centered in my BMI index at 155. I started doing 16:8 IF the five work days of the week last Spring. I really didn't think this would be possible as for years if I didn't eat within a half an hour of getting up in the morning my stomach would be messed up for the whole day. It was tough the first week to skip breakfast. As I went along it got easier and I started doing a 23 hour fast on Wednesday's. I had read about autophogy and thought I'd give it a try. There's some debate whether autophagy takes place in 23 hours, but I tried it anyhow. It wasn't all that hard! I did drink a lot of water however. Then just to prove to myself that I could do it, I did a 47 hour fast! Once again, it wasn't all that hard and indeed as they said would happen, I really felt great the last 8 hours! I found it important to understand that food does not make you or rule you and that you posses the power to control consumption.

Let me be the first to congratulate you @Thewonderofitall for reaching autophagy!!! Oh, and congrats to every other person who lives on the planet, because they have 'reached' autophagy as well!!

First off, let's define our terms...
Autophagy -> the process that the body goes thru to cleanup dead and dying cells (nothing more, nothing less).

There is nothing magical about autophagy... your body is very skilled at doing it and does it 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, regardless of your eating patterns. There is some evidence that there is a slight uptick in autophagy as a result of fasting, but it is a SLIGHT uptick (there is also some evidence that the uptick actually occurs after you break your fast and not during the fast).

To get back to the original topic, IF is a great tool for controlling the amount of food that a person eats (for some at least), but there is nothing magical about it - calories consumed still count and it is scarily easy to over-consume calories even during IF.

noel2fit · March 2022

Fasting, skipping breakfast, eating low calorie- it's all the same. Calorie deficit is why it works. I actually do "IF" most days because I prefer to workout on an empty stomach (otherwise I feel pukey during a hard workout). Workout 830-930, get home around 10am... Also have small kids so dinner at 530 and done by 6. So technically I'm doing 16:8 most days. On weekends we eat breakfast around 8 and I do find it tough not to snack until lunch at noon. I imagine it's just that- snacking vs not snacking can make or break your deficit depending on what you're having. It's all deficit though and timing is just psychology and limiting your chances to mess up the deficit.

Thewonderofitall · March 2022

ccrdragon wrote: »

Let me be the first to congratulate you @Thewonderofitall for reaching autophagy!!! Oh, and congrats to every other person who lives on the planet, because they have 'reached' autophagy as well!!

Well that was kind of snotty!

ccrdragon wrote: »

There is nothing magical about autophagy... your body is very skilled at doing it and does it 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, regardless of your eating patterns. There is some evidence that there is a slight uptick in autophagy as a result of fasting, but it is a SLIGHT uptick (there is also some evidence that the uptick actually occurs after you break your fast and not during the fast).

Not from everything I've read. I have to strongly disagree with this.

ccrdragon wrote: »

To get back to the original topic, IF is a great tool for controlling the amount of food that a person eats (for some at least), but there is nothing magical about it - calories consumed still count and it is scarily easy to over-consume calories even during IF.

So you're just ignoring the "Fed" and "Fasted" body states? Well it helped me lose weight a lot better then non-fasting while consuming the same number of calories.

To each their own!

AnnPT77 · March 2022

Thewonderofitall wrote: »

ccrdragon wrote: »

Let me be the first to congratulate you @Thewonderofitall for reaching autophagy!!! Oh, and congrats to every other person who lives on the planet, because they have 'reached' autophagy as well!!

Well that was kind of snotty!

ccrdragon wrote: »

There is nothing magical about autophagy... your body is very skilled at doing it and does it 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, regardless of your eating patterns. There is some evidence that there is a slight uptick in autophagy as a result of fasting, but it is a SLIGHT uptick (there is also some evidence that the uptick actually occurs after you break your fast and not during the fast).

Not from everything I've read. I have to strongly disagree with this.

ccrdragon wrote: »

To get back to the original topic, IF is a great tool for controlling the amount of food that a person eats (for some at least), but there is nothing magical about it - calories consumed still count and it is scarily easy to over-consume calories even during IF.

So you're just ignoring the "Fed" and "Fasted" body states? Well it helped me lose weight a lot better then non-fasting while consuming the same number of calories.

To each their own!

Full digestive transit, according to research, can take up to 2 days (50+ hours), and in some cases probably longer. During much of that transit, nutrients (using the term broadly) are being harvested from the food intake, and metabolized by the body. The even includes, as it's coming to be understood, nutrients metabolized by several pounds of gut microbes that aren't even genetically "us", microbes whose waste becomes a biochemical influence on our well-being in various ways.

"Fasted" and "fed" states are a little complicated, in that context. There are sources that seek to oversimplify that. (I don't know your sources, so I'm not asserting they're among them, just that it's a common thing.)

Intermittent fasting (IF) can be a fine strategy. If it helps a specific individual person eat appropriate number of calories, get overall good nutrition, stay energetic and happy, reach and sustain good health markers (blood tests and all that), I'm all for it . . . for that person.

I'd encourage everyone to look at sound, research-based sources, and seek out critiques of those sources, too, before buying into any one/few advocates' analysis, or explanation of underlying mechanisms. To be clear, I'd say that about any subject where a person is making important life decisions, not just eating strategies.

While I try to avoid getting into personal critiques with others who post here - perhaps not always successfully - I'd underscore that autophagy is a normal body process that occurs in everyone, at least everyone healthy, routinely. The argument at the margin is whether it happens more in people who intentionally fast, in what ways, and to what extent that's a good thing or not. Normal people don't need to fast in order for autophagy to take place at all.

I'd observe that in most human cultures across centuries of history, most people have avoided fasting most of the time (other than some religious/cultural practices that tend to be time limited, or a small minority of people); and that generally people have been as relatively long-lived and thriving as their overall life context permitted. There have been periods of food scarcity, or course, and I'm sure natural selection has shaped human physiology to survive them. The specific historical groups affected by serious food scarcity are not likely to have been in peak health, but it's conceivable that some of the adaptive mechanisms could be carefully engaged to individual benefit. It's an interesting and evolving topic.

ccrdragon · March 2022

Thewonderofitall wrote: »

ccrdragon wrote: »

Let me be the first to congratulate you @Thewonderofitall for reaching autophagy!!! Oh, and congrats to every other person who lives on the planet, because they have 'reached' autophagy as well!!

Well that was kind of snotty!

ccrdragon wrote: »

There is nothing magical about autophagy... your body is very skilled at doing it and does it 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, regardless of your eating patterns. There is some evidence that there is a slight uptick in autophagy as a result of fasting, but it is a SLIGHT uptick (there is also some evidence that the uptick actually occurs after you break your fast and not during the fast).

Not from everything I've read. I have to strongly disagree with this.

ccrdragon wrote: »

To get back to the original topic, IF is a great tool for controlling the amount of food that a person eats (for some at least), but there is nothing magical about it - calories consumed still count and it is scarily easy to over-consume calories even during IF.

So you're just ignoring the "Fed" and "Fasted" body states? Well it helped me lose weight a lot better then non-fasting while consuming the same number of calories.

To each their own!

You also might not want ot be in such a hurry to try and induce autophagy...

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/autophagy

From the article linked above:

"Autophagy itself is not always positive. StudiesTrusted Source have shown that excessive autophagy may kill cells in the heart, and scientists have linked excessive autophagy to some heart problems."

also from that same article:
"For instance, a recent 2019 study surveys existing research into autophagy and cancer. It finds that while autophagy can help to stall the development of cancer cells, it may also promote their growth, depending on the stage of the tumor."

And from the summary of that article:
"Autophagy is an essential bodily process that removes damaged and unnecessary parts of cells. There is evidence that it can have both positive and adverse health effects.

Although research has shown that dietary restriction, exercise, and curcumin intake may influence autophagy, most studies have taken place on non-human animals.

Scientists do not have a full picture of the health implications of autophagy, nor of how individuals might induce it."

So, I don't know which of the "guru's" you are reading, but you might try expanding your reading...

Wanted to note - where it says 'Trusted Source' in the above quotes, those are links in the original article that didn't cut/paste with the quote. All of the links from the article are listed at the bottom in the bibliography.

The Latest Trend is Fasting: What say you?

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