Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.

Do you NEED to deadlift?

2456

Replies

  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 47,921 Member
    edited June 2022
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    The hip hinge (basic deadlift motion) is considered to be one of the basic human movement patterns, some sources:

    https://www.otpbooks.com/dan-john-5-basic-human-movements/
    https://www.strongfirst.com/seven-basic-human-movements/
    https://robertsontrainingsystems.com/blog/7-exercises/
    https://www.t-nation.com/training/the-6-foundational-movement-patterns/
    https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/a38375837/athlean-x-essential-exercises-program-cavaliere/

    Now remember, this is saying you need to train the hip hinge pattern. While deadlifts with a barbell off the floor is one way, it's not the only way.

    A good trainer/lifter should train the pattern, adapting the specific exercise(s) to the individual's needs/limitations.
    Hip thrust, rack deadlifts, squats and RDLs (with moderate resistance) all address these and I use them somewhere with every client regardless of age.


    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png


  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 47,921 Member
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    Training so many people of different age ranges in my clientele, I was asked one time by one of my older clients on why I don't have him deadlift in our program. He marvels at some of the younger ones deadlifting 315lbs + off the floor. Even girls are lifting 250lbs off the floor.
    I mentioned to him that based on his goals and because I want to keep him safe and injury free as possible (he's in his 60's), I don't include deadlifts in the program, but we do a lot of back work with rows, pullups, etc.
    Now IF a client really wants to deadlift, I'll include it in a program, but max lifts aren't for anyone over a certain age IMO. The risk/satisfaction just isn't worth it since I've seen many a member doing them over a certain age get injured somehow and recovery is quite long.
    Many clients over 50, I'll have do rack deadlifts if they want to have deadlifts in their program. It's rarely a few (I can count on one hand how many I've had in years over 50 years old) that do it from the floor.

    But in reality, what does one apply a heavy deadlift to in everyday life? I mean even if say a box was 100lbs, I don't see many lifting it off the floor without assistance.

    Thoughts?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png

    Rows and pull-ups don't really target the same muscles as the deadlift https://barbend.com/deadlift/#MUSCLE

    From the article:

    "In a 2018 study from the Journal of Exercise and Fitness, authors noted that the gluteus maximus, rectus femoris, and biceps femoris were highly active during the conventional deadlift"

    Not getting near as much glute work from rows and pullups as hip hinge (deadlift) movements.

    Another good article

    https://hashimashi.com/deadlift-muscles-worked/#what muscles do deadlifts work the most
    Which is why I mentioned above exercises.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png

  • Mellouk89
    Mellouk89 Posts: 469 Member
    The deadlift is far from being the most effective exercise for your glutes. You don't deadlift for the sole purpose of training your glutes.
  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,289 Member
    edited June 2022
    Mellouk89 wrote: »
    The deadlift is far from being the most effective exercise for your glutes. You don't deadlift for the sole purpose of training your glutes.

    Of course you don't do deadlifts solely for glutes, it's pretty much a full body exercise.

    Deadlifts will make the top 3-5 in virtually any list of movements to train the glutes so yeah pretty effective, not far from it as you say.
  • nossmf
    nossmf Posts: 7,141 Member
    Once I started adding weighted hip thrusts for glutes into my routine, my deadlift numbers leaped higher.
  • Mellouk89
    Mellouk89 Posts: 469 Member
    edited June 2022
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    Mellouk89 wrote: »
    The deadlift is far from being the most effective exercise for your glutes. You don't deadlift for the sole purpose of training your glutes.

    Of course you don't do deadlifts solely for glutes, it's pretty much a full body exercise.

    Deadlifts will make the top 3-5 in virtually any list of movements to train the glutes so yeah pretty effective, not far from it as you say.

    According to who?

    You can read this article as to why the barbell deadlift is not particularly great for hypertrophy :


    https://www.rntfitness.co.uk/deadlifts-overrated-muscle-building/
  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,289 Member
    Mellouk89 wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    Mellouk89 wrote: »
    The deadlift is far from being the most effective exercise for your glutes. You don't deadlift for the sole purpose of training your glutes.

    Of course you don't do deadlifts solely for glutes, it's pretty much a full body exercise.

    Deadlifts will make the top 3-5 in virtually any list of movements to train the glutes so yeah pretty effective, not far from it as you say.

    According to who?

    You can read this article as to why the barbell deadlift is not particularly great for hypertrophy :


    https://www.rntfitness.co.uk/deadlifts-overrated-muscle-building/

    Here are a few examples. The Internet is your friend.

    https://central.gymshark.com/article/top-5-exercises-to-grow-your-glutes
    https://barbend.com/best-glutes-exercises/
    https://powerliftingtechnique.com/compound-glute-exercises/
    https://swolverine.com/blogs/blog/best-glute-exercises
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 47,921 Member
    edited June 2022
    33gail33 wrote: »
    I do deadlifts because I like them - they are pretty much my favorite lift.

    Please tell me I don't need to do squats .... :wink:
    Need to.......no, however it is a functional movement that most people do daily. Getting up from a seat as an example. You can supplement with leg press, lunges, etc., but doing a form of squat is beneficial overall.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png

  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,289 Member
    33gail33 wrote: »
    I do deadlifts because I like them - they are pretty much my favorite lift.

    Please tell me I don't need to do squats .... :wink:

    Squats will help keep you out of the home

    https://seniorslifestylemag.com/health-well-being/how-the-squat-is-the-most-important-exercise-for-seniors/
  • 33gail33
    33gail33 Posts: 1,155 Member
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    I do deadlifts because I like them - they are pretty much my favorite lift.

    Please tell me I don't need to do squats .... :wink:

    Squats will help keep you out of the home

    https://seniorslifestylemag.com/health-well-being/how-the-squat-is-the-most-important-exercise-for-seniors/

    Damn my terrible knees and bad balance ... :neutral:
  • claireychn074
    claireychn074 Posts: 1,166 Member
    33gail33 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    I do deadlifts because I like them - they are pretty much my favorite lift.

    Please tell me I don't need to do squats .... :wink:
    Need to.......no, however it is a functional movement that most people do daily. Getting up from a seat as an example. You can supplement with leg press, lunges, etc., but doing a form of squat is beneficial overall.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png

    Yeah I was joking - I just really hate them. My doctor already told me I need to do squats. :(

    Me: "But I hate them."
    Her: "You can hate me while you do them."

    I share your pain. I actively dislike back squats (and split squats) and whinge heartily whilst doing them. But I love front squats 🤷‍♂️
  • azuki84
    azuki84 Posts: 212 Member
    theres a reason why people can get great gains from just 3 compound exercises: bench/deadlift/squat. however, thats GENERAL CONTEXT. we're unique and need to know how our bodies respond to deadlift. if it works then yes, if it doesn't or your body doesn't respond well to it then theres plenty of other exercises to compensate
  • Mellouk89
    Mellouk89 Posts: 469 Member
    Even barbend, the website that was linked here is saying that the dumbbell deadlift is more suited for hypertrophy. I also linked an article earlier that everyone should read.

    https://barbend.com/dumbbell-deadlift-benefits/
  • kponds_901
    kponds_901 Posts: 1 Member
    The hip hinge is one of the basic functional movement patterns and critical to physical performance, whether in athletic endeavors or just life.

    I don't think you have to have a deadlift to train the same movement pattern -- but pull-ups and rows aren't it (they're great exercises just not hinges).

    Kettlebell swings (properly done) would be an alternative. Med ball slams would be another one. And of course the olympic lifts clean and snatch. Of course all of these are explosive whereas the deadlift is a grind so they're a little different. A grind alternative might be good mornings but I probably wouldn't program these in place of a deadlift.

    I personally like deadlifting with a trap bar with the high handles (I'm very tall) -- better for longevity and injury prevention for me, and I get a ton of benefits from it.
  • SuzanneC1l9zz
    SuzanneC1l9zz Posts: 439 Member
    @ninerbuff I'm curious to know where you consider the "too old" cutoff to be, generally speaking.
  • Mellouk89
    Mellouk89 Posts: 469 Member
    edited June 2022
    Why "functional training" is waste of time :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfnvSasqybw
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 47,921 Member
    SuzanneC1l9zz wrote: »
    @ninerbuff I'm curious to know where you consider the "too old" cutoff to be, generally speaking.
    Usually 50 and over. Lots of people this age already suffer from arthritis, tendonitis and generally "creaky" joints. Ideally you want to start getting lighter by this age and up just to reduce the stress on your joints and wear and tear to slow down.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png

  • SuzanneC1l9zz
    SuzanneC1l9zz Posts: 439 Member
    Interesting. Thanks.

Categories