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Do you NEED to deadlift?
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I do deadlifts because I like them - they are pretty much my favorite lift.
Please tell me I don't need to do squats ....
Squats will help keep you out of the home
https://seniorslifestylemag.com/health-well-being/how-the-squat-is-the-most-important-exercise-for-seniors/1 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »I do deadlifts because I like them - they are pretty much my favorite lift.
Please tell me I don't need to do squats ....
Squats will help keep you out of the home
https://seniorslifestylemag.com/health-well-being/how-the-squat-is-the-most-important-exercise-for-seniors/
Damn my terrible knees and bad balance ...
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Need to.......no, however it is a functional movement that most people do daily. Getting up from a seat as an example. You can supplement with leg press, lunges, etc., but doing a form of squat is beneficial overall.I do deadlifts because I like them - they are pretty much my favorite lift.
Please tell me I don't need to do squats ....
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Yeah I was joking - I just really hate them. My doctor already told me I need to do squats.
Me: "But I hate them."
Her: "You can hate me while you do them."
I share your pain. I actively dislike back squats (and split squats) and whinge heartily whilst doing them. But I love front squats 🤷♂️1 -
theres a reason why people can get great gains from just 3 compound exercises: bench/deadlift/squat. however, thats GENERAL CONTEXT. we're unique and need to know how our bodies respond to deadlift. if it works then yes, if it doesn't or your body doesn't respond well to it then theres plenty of other exercises to compensate2
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Even barbend, the website that was linked here is saying that the dumbbell deadlift is more suited for hypertrophy. I also linked an article earlier that everyone should read.
https://barbend.com/dumbbell-deadlift-benefits/1 -
The hip hinge is one of the basic functional movement patterns and critical to physical performance, whether in athletic endeavors or just life.
I don't think you have to have a deadlift to train the same movement pattern -- but pull-ups and rows aren't it (they're great exercises just not hinges).
Kettlebell swings (properly done) would be an alternative. Med ball slams would be another one. And of course the olympic lifts clean and snatch. Of course all of these are explosive whereas the deadlift is a grind so they're a little different. A grind alternative might be good mornings but I probably wouldn't program these in place of a deadlift.
I personally like deadlifting with a trap bar with the high handles (I'm very tall) -- better for longevity and injury prevention for me, and I get a ton of benefits from it.0 -
@ninerbuff I'm curious to know where you consider the "too old" cutoff to be, generally speaking.0
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Usually 50 and over. Lots of people this age already suffer from arthritis, tendonitis and generally "creaky" joints. Ideally you want to start getting lighter by this age and up just to reduce the stress on your joints and wear and tear to slow down.SuzanneC1l9zz wrote: »@ninerbuff I'm curious to know where you consider the "too old" cutoff to be, generally speaking.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Interesting. Thanks.0
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Nooooo! 😮😮😮 I’m only two years away from that and I am defo not slowing down! Haven’t quite got 2x bw on my deadlifts yet! And still have to win the BWL Masters 😀
Usually 50 and over. Lots of people this age already suffer from arthritis, tendonitis and generally "creaky" joints. Ideally you want to start getting lighter by this age and up just to reduce the stress on your joints and wear and tear to slow down.SuzanneC1l9zz wrote: »@ninerbuff I'm curious to know where you consider the "too old" cutoff to be, generally speaking.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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@claireychn074 I asked because I'm 45 years old and trying to work up to competitive powerlifting 😉 Of course my trainer's opinion, who has assessed me in person, gets more weight.5
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SuzanneC1l9zz wrote: »@claireychn074 I asked because I'm 45 years old and trying to work up to competitive powerlifting 😉 Of course my trainer's opinion, who has assessed me in person, gets more weight.
TBF to @ninerbuff he (think he’s a chap?!) did say earlier that it depends on the client and he is training someone much older. I think as a general rule of thumb, people who haven’t done much sport before the age of 50 might find that maxing out causes injury (especially if not done under the eagle eye of a coach). I only started lifting when I was 42 but I had always been active - I used to train martial arts and then did a lot of swimming - so weights were just a new fun thing. I will continue to compete until I physically can’t, but my coach is sensitive to my age and programmes accordingly I.e. I don’t max out that often. He definitely programmes me differently to the 20 year old men, but I train HARD and I am defo getting stronger. I do have to watch my nutrition and recovery more than when I did martial arts in my 20s as I get worse doms and I need sleep, but it’s fine. I also take longer to warm up and mobilise, so I can see how time-poor people over 50 could rush that, struggle with the hours of training needed and get injured. I think it’s completely down to the individual and the aims - in order to compete I am putting myself at a higher risk of injury, but I get an enormous buzz out of my sport and I love it. At 45 you’re a wee young thing - go and powerlift and enjoy it 😀3 -
Oh, no slight meant to @ninerbuff at all! I was just curious where I stood against his generic recommendation. Like you @claireychn074 I've always been active, and I've actually been lifting & loving it since my mid-teens, but before it was always to support my primary sport. This is the first time the lifting itself has been the point 🙂1
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I don’t get many of my clients to deadlift.
I’ve trained many people, from those going into specialist divisions of armed forces to people who are models (my specialism was always occupational personal training).
Deadlifting to me has its benefits but not nearly enough benefits for me to waste time on it for the majority of peoples goals - including those with fairly advanced training needs I.E. Armes forces, etc.
The scope for it going wrong and injury is just too high for it to be recommended for anybody that has goals that doesn’t require it.
I’m sure that many will disagree with me but I just find deadlifting to be pointless for all but very few goals and isn’t anything that the benefits of, can’t be achieved in different and safer ways.2 -
Lol, people who feel they can do it safely and have an actual goal with doing them, can probably do them fine. Even for myself, I only do them occasionally because I do so much everyday physically anyway. Just make sure you're really paying attention and focusing when you do them.claireychn074 wrote: »
Nooooo! 😮😮😮 I’m only two years away from that and I am defo not slowing down! Haven’t quite got 2x bw on my deadlifts yet! And still have to win the BWL Masters 😀
Usually 50 and over. Lots of people this age already suffer from arthritis, tendonitis and generally "creaky" joints. Ideally you want to start getting lighter by this age and up just to reduce the stress on your joints and wear and tear to slow down.SuzanneC1l9zz wrote: »@ninerbuff I'm curious to know where you consider the "too old" cutoff to be, generally speaking.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Many of the younger do it as a measure of their strength. Lol, us older people don't care about that as much.AdamAthletic wrote: »I don’t get many of my clients to deadlift.
I’ve trained many people, from those going into specialist divisions of armed forces to people who are models (my specialism was always occupational personal training).
Deadlifting to me has its benefits but not nearly enough benefits for me to waste time on it for the majority of peoples goals - including those with fairly advanced training needs I.E. Armes forces, etc.
The scope for it going wrong and injury is just too high for it to be recommended for anybody that has goals that doesn’t require it.
I’m sure that many will disagree with me but I just find deadlifting to be pointless for all but very few goals and isn’t anything that the benefits of, can’t be achieved in different and safer ways.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition 1 -
@AdamAthletic - Do you cut them out altogether or replace them? And if the latter, what would you suggest for a 58 year old beginner with an achy lower back?0
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CeeBeeSlim wrote: »@AdamAthletic - Do you cut them out altogether or replace them? And if the latter, what would you suggest for a 58 year old beginner with an achy lower back?
@CeeBeeSlim
From the very limited information that I have to go off, you’d be far better working on a stretch routine for your lower back.
It all depends on the cause of the aches, the exercises can alleviate the aches but if there’s something that causing it, you’re better off addressing the cause alongside the alleviation.
Personally, whether I cut them out or substitute them depends massively on the persons goals. Typically, as Niner mentioned above, people tend to do them as a show of strength and to test themselves - I don’t find them to be the best way to obtain any specific result other than that.
There are also a multitude of machines now that mimic deadlifting without the need for the mentoring to achieve the right technique.
Alternatively, there are a great number of calisthenics workouts that achieve some, if not many of the benefits of deadlifting.
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Many of the younger do it as a measure of their strength. Lol, us older people don't care about that as much.AdamAthletic wrote: »I don’t get many of my clients to deadlift.
I’ve trained many people, from those going into specialist divisions of armed forces to people who are models (my specialism was always occupational personal training).
Deadlifting to me has its benefits but not nearly enough benefits for me to waste time on it for the majority of peoples goals - including those with fairly advanced training needs I.E. Armes forces, etc.
The scope for it going wrong and injury is just too high for it to be recommended for anybody that has goals that doesn’t require it.
I’m sure that many will disagree with me but I just find deadlifting to be pointless for all but very few goals and isn’t anything that the benefits of, can’t be achieved in different and safer ways.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
@ninerbuff
True. I think it just becomes less appealing when you just don’t feel to have anything to prove.
For me, I see very little joy in doing something that with even the slightest miscalculation can put me out of action for a week.
I do see the fun that people have with it though and I’m all about doing whatever feels right for yourself, so long as you take care to get the correct technique.
Sometimes I cringe when I see people doing it - on more than one occasion I’ve gone over and helped to get somebodies stance right and posture closer to where it should be. I can’t just sit back and watch somebody potentially hurt themselves.
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@AdamAthletic Thanks for the thorough reply. A bit complicated as there’s no move that seems to exacerbate it and all X-rays and mris indicate minor bulging disc. I’m not like some others where the back pain is constant - in fact I only feel it when I’m sleeping and only if I touch a certain spot. stretching does seems to help.
It may be as simple as that old joke where if it only hurts to touch it, stop touching it!
If I had to guess I think I did a lot of damage when I worked with a personal trainer (I was a total newbie) who believed in lifting heavy. But her coaching cues with deadlifts and squats were to “pretend you’re flirting” - so every squat and deadlift I did - along with some YouTube videos with just those two moves - were done with me in an exaggerated anterior tilt and arched back. I never braced core or pulled my butt in - which is what I’m supposed to do I think.0 -
CeeBeeSlim wrote: »@AdamAthletic Thanks for the thorough reply. A bit complicated as there’s no move that seems to exacerbate it and all X-rays and mris indicate minor bulging disc. I’m not like some others where the back pain is constant - in fact I only feel it when I’m sleeping and only if I touch a certain spot. stretching does seems to help.
It may be as simple as that old joke where if it only hurts to touch it, stop touching it!
If I had to guess I think I did a lot of damage when I worked with a personal trainer (I was a total newbie) who believed in lifting heavy. But her coaching cues with deadlifts and squats were to “pretend you’re flirting” - so every squat and deadlift I did - along with some YouTube videos with just those two moves - were done with me in an exaggerated anterior tilt and arched back. I never braced core or pulled my butt in - which is what I’m supposed to do I think.
@CeeBeeSlim
It’s a difficult one, especially with the slight herniated disk.
I did a quick search and found a resource that might be useful for you:
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/324311#exercises-for-low-back-pain
Particular attention to the ones that focus on the area that you’re having trouble with.
I was going to say but it also mentions it in the article, physiotherapy might be your best way to help to address the issue.
I’m going pretty far off topic here so, please feel free to add me and drop me a message if I can offer any more basic guidance or help.0 -
@AdamAthletic Thanks so much for the link. Very helpful. Will start trying those today!1
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Very welcome!CeeBeeSlim wrote: »@AdamAthletic Thanks so much for the link. Very helpful. Will start trying those today!
Good luck with everything 🙂
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I don't think a traditional deadlift is all that important outside of actual strength training. I'm 48 in a couple of months and at this point, my lifting is primarily about physical competence and maintaining physical competence as I age. I think some kind of hinge movement is important as it is a pretty basic function of the human body but I can't remember the last time I did a traditional deadlift and I haven't lifted "heavy" in a number of years...in my day to day life I will never have the need to lift a gazillion Lbs off of the floor or push a gazillion Lbs off my chest or put a gazillion Lbs on my back to squat.
As hinge movements go, I usually do RDLs with a moderate amount of weight. I don't flat BB bench...I either use dumbbells or do incline as I do have a dodgy right shoulder that is aggravated by flat BB bench. I do a variety of different squat variations including back squat...but again, moderate weight.0 -
I do light deadlifting now. I didn't used to, but I found one of those X3 Bar imitations that uses heavy bands (like Rogue Monster Bands). I love to do them now, but, realistically, it's only like 140 or 150 lbs with the bands. I do that and heavy KB swings, some squats, not a lot of lunges (right knee is terrible). I liked this bar (mine is called a Teslang Resistance Band Bar (like 79 bucks on Amazon) as a trainor to do deadlifts. I believe my form is pretty good -- I had my son check it -- he's into heavy lifting, last time he was here. I now feel pretty confident if I decided to go to my gym and do deadlifts (lighter ones) that I could, just fine.
I'll be 58 this year, so I'm good with what I'm doing -- I do around 100 or so reps (six or seven sets of 15) three times a week. I use a 35kg (72 pound) KB for swings. I'm very, very careful with the lower back when I lift. I'm not a huge barbell guy, I feel like I can get decent lifting done at home that supplements the six days a week that I do the rowing machine.
Functionally, the most recent time I had to use it is a couple of months ago I sold a used refrigerater (a big one) to my neighbors daughter for cheap. She didn't have a lot of money for movers and the guy that came to get it didn't have a clue how to move it. He brought a kid as a "helper" that was probably 120 lbs soaking wet. I had to deadlift the refrigerator onto his flatbed trailor. It was already slanted a bit so it wasn't a full load, but likely 250 to 300 lbs and I had no issues at all. Don't want to do it every day, but it was nice to know, especially at my age, that I could.1 -
For me, the increased hamstring strength has been useful for running (it was previously the weak point when running uphill...hamstrings would fatigue long before quads) and cycling. That particular move is also frequently useful (at least for me) for lifting shoulder bags (I often shop with a large newsbag-type bag that holds a lot and that I often really, really overfill...put it down to grab something from freezer compartment and basically deadlift it back up off the floor with the strap over my shoulders. Also for heavy backpacks set down on a low table - in both cases, I find my movement very, very similar to a deadlift).1
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Now, to ask the corollary question: should I STOP deadlifting?
Age 45 male, been lifting consistently for almost 13 years now, deadlifts are part of my weekly plan. Current fitness goals are primarily keeping functional fitness as I age, with a secondary goal of looking good for my age. No sports, no competitions, work a desk job with a long commute. I currently enjoy doing deadlifts.
Given the reluctance of multiple trainers in this thread to START adding deadlifts, should I be thinking about STOP including deadlifts?1 -
Now, to ask the corollary question: should I STOP deadlifting?
Age 45 male, been lifting consistently for almost 13 years now, deadlifts are part of my weekly plan. Current fitness goals are primarily keeping functional fitness as I age, with a secondary goal of looking good for my age. No sports, no competitions, work a desk job with a long commute. I currently enjoy doing deadlifts.
Given the reluctance of multiple trainers in this thread to START adding deadlifts, should I be thinking about STOP including deadlifts?
I wouldn't think so...if you enjoy them and you're getting what you want out of them and have the experience to do them correctly I wouldn't see why you would stop outside of some kind of physical limitation (which a lot of older people have, particularly if they haven't been very physically active). For myself, I stopped strength training (heavy) several years ago and with using more moderate weight I felt like I was getting more bang for my buck with RDLs than higher rep, lower weight traditional deadlifts...plus I never really liked deadlifts and dreaded doing them. I do think doing some kind of hinge movement is pretty important though as it is a basic function of the human body that should be maintained for physical competency.
I personally do cleans regularly as a part of my routine which I think most trainers would also not train an older person on without previous experience, nor are they particularly necessary to stay in shape or remain physically competent. I've been doing them since high school as a track and field sprinter and jumper and I do them now primarily because they're just hella fun to do...I don't think they have all that much translation to my day to day life though since I don't sprint or jump or otherwise engage in much more than physical recreational activity these days.1 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfnvSasqybw
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