Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Do you think people are realistic about what being healthy can do for us?
shaumom
Posts: 1,003 Member
in Debate Club
I know a lot of folks who are eating better, losing weight, exercising, etc... do so because they think it's healthier for them. So I'm wondering...
What DOES being healthy do for us? (fight off illness better, less wear and tear, longer lives, what do you feel like it does for you?)
Do you think you are realistic about what being 'healthy' can do for you?
Do you think people in general are realistic about what being 'healthy' can do for themselves?
Because while I think there's a lot of studies on various conditions we can develop if we are nutrient deficient, or have too much excess weight or cholesterol, etc... That is just a small list of what can, well, bejank our bodies.
I don't think anyone would argue that we can control what genes we can inherit from our parents, or control what injuries we get from any accidents that might occur (get hit by a car, for example). We are exposed to bacteria and viruses whether we want to or not. We are exposed to various toxins without our being aware (like in Flint, Michigan).
But I still frequently see people who will, say, develop an incurable illness, or an injury that isn't fully treatable, and react with shock, or even anger, because 'I did everything right. I ate healthy, i exercised, I took care of myself.' (I see much less of people who think good health doesn't impact anything)
As though being healthy meant they could never have anything bad happen to their body again.
You even see it, constantly, in media, as though if you just do certain things, make certain habits, you won't get sick or ill. 'The 6 Secrets of Super Healthy People.' '30 secrets of people who never get sick' '9 habits of people who never get sick' (these are all real articles, btw).
So to repeat:
What DOES being healthy do for us?
Do you think you are realistic about what being 'healthy' can do for you?
Do you think people in general are realistic about what being 'healthy' can do for themselves?
What DOES being healthy do for us? (fight off illness better, less wear and tear, longer lives, what do you feel like it does for you?)
Do you think you are realistic about what being 'healthy' can do for you?
Do you think people in general are realistic about what being 'healthy' can do for themselves?
Because while I think there's a lot of studies on various conditions we can develop if we are nutrient deficient, or have too much excess weight or cholesterol, etc... That is just a small list of what can, well, bejank our bodies.
I don't think anyone would argue that we can control what genes we can inherit from our parents, or control what injuries we get from any accidents that might occur (get hit by a car, for example). We are exposed to bacteria and viruses whether we want to or not. We are exposed to various toxins without our being aware (like in Flint, Michigan).
But I still frequently see people who will, say, develop an incurable illness, or an injury that isn't fully treatable, and react with shock, or even anger, because 'I did everything right. I ate healthy, i exercised, I took care of myself.' (I see much less of people who think good health doesn't impact anything)
As though being healthy meant they could never have anything bad happen to their body again.
You even see it, constantly, in media, as though if you just do certain things, make certain habits, you won't get sick or ill. 'The 6 Secrets of Super Healthy People.' '30 secrets of people who never get sick' '9 habits of people who never get sick' (these are all real articles, btw).
So to repeat:
What DOES being healthy do for us?
Do you think you are realistic about what being 'healthy' can do for you?
Do you think people in general are realistic about what being 'healthy' can do for themselves?
1
Replies
-
Well, I'm 68 and a lot of people I know are dead or very ill. The ones that take care of themselves--exercise, eat right, and keep their weight at a reasonable level, can still walk and do normal things. THAT'S the idea. Statistics are on your side. Using the "well I could get hit by a car, or get cancer, or blah, blah" are just excuses. Keeping up normal functions for as long as possible, is the idea. Quality of life in old age is what we're striving for, but you do you.18
-
I don't know about 'people'. For myself, I think of it in terms of odds. No guarantee for sure, but improving the odds is a good thing.
Side note: but 'healthy' is a vague term too. Healthy weight? Other things?
The number one reason I lost weight was not because of the odds, but simply because I was tired of being obese. The physical side of it and the lack of self confidence.
Risk of cardiac issues and diabetes minimal in my case (based on family history) but just seeing my mom struggle with just plain walking at a normal speed definitely pushed me in the right direction too.
Feeling how i feel now, just reinforces my motivation to stay at my current weight. Because it feels great. Better odds of not getting ill and better quality of life later on is a bonus.8 -
Many of my friends' mothers died in their 70's. My mom is 85 and quite healthy and active for her age. If she ends up in a nursing home, it won't be because she is no longer able to get off the toilet by herself, it will be because she fell off the ladder while cleaning gutters >.<
Being healthy does wonders for my mental health and sleep. I was in a funk most of the day, and went for a short walk, which "cleared out the cobwebs." I was then able to start being productive.8 -
I was healthy before I got cancer. I climbed mountains for fun —big ones. And ran marathons and did yoga and pilates and spin and swimming and I was at a healthy weight. It did not prevent me from getting the most aggressive form of breast cancer (triple negative ) that you can get. But I firmly believe that my pre-cancer lifestyle helped me beat it. I had serious complications after, lost the ability to walk for a while, was put on a laundry list of medicines that affected all aspects of my well-being, I became depressed, ate and drank too much and gained a lot of weight. I felt worse than when I had cancer and was undergoing chemo for several years.I’ve since stopped taking all the medicine, lost all the weight and more, can walk again (sadly can’t run anymore or hike/climb in any meaningful way), but I swim, do pilates, walk , do tai chi, dance (badly), and otherwise am healthy again so that I can take care of my family as well as myself.
Low/healthy weight is but one factor among many that contributes to health outcomes, but it is one we have more direct control over than most other factors. So why not try to do what we can to improve the metrics somewhat? Not so much to prolong life, but to make it more livable.12 -
My father and grandfather died of heart attacks at age 51. I was 40 and 388 pounds. I've lost 160 pounds in a little over a year. Maybe I still will die at age 50-51 but I'll at least enjoy my life a hell of a lot more! I'm turning 41 in a couple of months and will be running my first 5km on April.2nd race in 15 years13
-
Like others, I also think of it as odds-shifting, in part.
I have different groups of friends. One group are recreational athletes (mostly rowers), another group is non-professional hobby-type mixed-media artists. They're roughly similar age groups, mostly 50s-70s, a few younger and older. Most of the athletes are slim to slightly overweight, pretty strong and physically capable. Most of the artists are very sedentary and inactive, nearly all obese or at least substantially overweight. The average quality of life difference is huge.
I could go into full comparatives, but I won't. It's dramatic, on average. One thing I'd mention because I think it's ironic (but sad). The overweight/inactive people got that way in part by eating anything they wanted to, and all of it they wanted (but didn't burn it off). The athletes were somewhat more moderate, at least in calorie-balance terms. Now, the overweight/inactive folks tend to have health conditions and take drugs that limit what they can eat and drink, unless they accept pretty dire immediate consequences. The athletes can still eat (and drink) pretty much what they want, including a bunch of things that are now off-limits to those with health conditions/drug contraindications.
Beyond the odds-shifting, personal experience:
Until my 40s, I was pretty inactive. Then I got much more active than average, over a couple/few years. It improved my quality of life dramatically in diverse ways, some of which I hadn't anticipated.
Until I was 59, I was overweight to obese most of my adult life (including a dozen years while very active, working out regularly, decent objective fitness metrics). Then I got thin, over about a year. That also improved my quality of life dramatically in diverse ways, some of which I hadn't anticipated.
The combination is gangbusters, stunning, huge quality of life improvement.
So, that's what "being healthy" means for me: Better quality of life, better odds for future quality of life. No guarantees, but better odds.
10 -
Being healthy isn't just about food and exercise. There is also, genetics, how much rest you get, stress, environment you live in, risk behavior (like extreme sports IE), mental health and a few other variables.
With the exception of COVID for 5 days, I haven't called in sick to work since 2015. Being as healthy as I can be, I am able to physically do a lot of things that people my age can't. Also it TOTALLY affects my attitude not only for me but how I'm perceived by others. I'm very optimistic and am usually always in a good mood. I rarely get worn out in the day and love my life more. Many people will pay just about anything to just have good health for a year. I think most people think being healthy is just being at a good weight, exercising and eating healthy. I'll be the FIRST to tell you that I eat fast food every week along with good meals. I indulge in desserts and sweets, but in moderation. The average age of death in my family has been in the age of 90's. But a lot of my relatives and family don't exercise like I do. I do have an issue now with uticaria from execise due to my high immunity system though. I break out in hives if I start getting heated up. It's temporary but a nuisance.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
6 -
I think the problem is that healthy means different things to different people. My sport borders on the obsessive; it therefore might be classed as veering into unhealthy (ie risk of injury, training too hard when fatigued etc). But I could easily be obsessed with alcohol or drugs and that would definitely be unhealthy.
I am one of those people who complained that my “healthy” lifestyle didn’t stop me getting cancer, but that was less about belief in nature’s preventative powers, and more about the stages of grief (disbelief/ bargaining). It did mean I came back from major surgery quickly and heeled well. And it means if I have to enter that fight again, I will have given myself the best possible chance to beat it again.5 -
I've only been diligently tracking for four months this time, so I'll offer some short-term health improvements that I believe are due to better nutrition, better habits, and a 16-pound loss:
- Better sleep. This is quantifiable, because my Fitbit gives me a sleep score. It's "good" or "excellent" almost every night.
- The side effect to better sleep, and probably better nutrition, is more energy.
- Improved digestion. I had heartburn every night when I went to bed. I don't eat nightly snacks anymore, so that could be why. I also make sure I hit 25 grams of fiber per day, so... ahem.
- My hips don't hurt! They were SO stiff. I don't know if it's less weight (probably) or the collagen and biotin supplements or making sure I stay hydrated, but I don't really care. I'll take it.
It's not measurable, but feeling good is, in my book, a health benefit. Not just physically, but mentally. I'm proud of myself and excited about my progress, and I love that my clothes fit again. It probably makes me a more pleasant human being. My relationships benefit, my quality of life improves, I have more fun, etc.
I do know that while I can't be sure I'm going to live longer, I for sure know I'd rather have fully mobile hips during the years I have left!
5 -
What does "Being Healthy" do for us? It gives us the best chance of good outcomes based on where we started.
There are a number of "health measures" that are correlated with various outcomes. Obesity is linked to type 2 diabetes. Avoiding becoming obese or losing weight to a healthy weight if you are reduces the odds you will be stricken. Are there obese people who never get diabetes or healthy weight people who do? Sure. It's correlation, not causation. There is a correlation with leading a sedentary lifestyle with other poor health outcomes. Moving your body decreases the chances of illness or death from these factors. Smoking is correlated with emphysema and lung cancer. Avoiding smoke increases your chances of avoiding these diseases. There are people who live to over 90 years old who smoke cigars every day and drink plenty of booze. It's correlation, not causation.
Think about playing a game of draw poker. Let's say you get four aces in your hand on the initial deal. Odds are pretty good you'll win the hand, and of course since you get to SEE the cards, you know what your odds are. Life is different because we don't get to see the cards. Then there's also two other hands that will beat your four aces, so you're not even guaranteed a win. An "unhealthy" choice would be to put down three of those four aces and drawing three fresh cards. Odds are you'll come out with a lower hand, but maybe you'll get a Royal Flush if you're holding one of the five cards needed in addition to the ace and draw the other three. Most likely you'll be in a worse situation. If all you have in your hand is a pair of twos, you'd be wise to trade in some cards and hope for a better outcome.
Doing things that are correlated with good health outcomes are like trading in a poor hand for a good hand or keeping the good hand you were dealt initially. It's making personal decisions that might lead to good outcomes, but no guarantees.
Yes, cards are a pretty poor analogy, but some aspects apply. It also doesn't speak to the issue of how you FEEL. I know that my body feels better and has more energy and fewer aches and pains if I give it some exercise and feed it good fuel. That's of course subjective, but I think it's extremely common.
4 -
(snip)
But I still frequently see people who will, say, develop an incurable illness, or an injury that isn't fully treatable, and react with shock, or even anger, because 'I did everything right. I ate healthy, i exercised, I took care of myself.' (I see much less of people who think good health doesn't impact anything)
As though being healthy meant they could never have anything bad happen to their body again.
(snip)
Do you think you are realistic about what being 'healthy' can do for you?
Do you think people in general are realistic about what being 'healthy' can do for themselves?
I want to come back in about two things. One is the "life-threatening illness" issue, the other is whether I/others are being realistic.
Some people's thought patterns are . . . weird, around life-threatening illness. Magical thinking is common, I think. (And for sure, most people are terrible at assessing risk, understanding statistics, etc., besides.)
I had a life-threatening illness, stage III locally-advanced breast cancer. I didn't hide it. (Why?)
There were some people who would question me quite intently about why I thought this would happen, kind of peppering me with questions about diet, exercise, genetics, environmental factors, you name it. In these cases, once they hit on some major "risky" thing that I had done, that they didn't do, they usually settled down and stopped the cross-examination. You could see it in their affect, even though they didn't say it: They were looking for the magical reason that I got cancer, but they wouldn't, the magical thing that made them safe. I'm not saying this was super common, but it wasn't super rare, either. (Probably many people would be too diplomatic - or kind - to ask all those questions.
).
To me, that's an example of a more common type of magical thinking about health: Something we do is a magical talisman against some bad thing happening, like we won't get cancer because we eat our veggies, or we won't have a heart attack because we ride our bike once a week. I'm not saying this is a fully thought-out thing, but I think it's a common-ish implicit assumption. We can't bear to think of the Bad Thing happening, so we use our talisman as reassurance. I think I do that by default in some respects, unless I pick apart my own logic (or lack).
OK, on to the next: Am I realistic about what being 'healthy' can do for me?
I think more than I used to be. I'm a cancer survivor and a cancer widow. After that, I tried for years to convince myself that I was healthy because I'd started being athletically active after cancer treatment, was objectively pretty fit, and that fitness made it not matter (much) that I was still fat. Eventually, the facts chased me down, and I had to admit that my weight itself was a health problem. So I lost weight.
Have I gotten rid of every single thing that creates health risk for me? No. But I think I'm more clear-eyed about the implications of my choices than I used to be. None of us are getting out of here alive. Quality of life vs. length of life can have some complex tradeoffs. Random bad things can happen at any time.
And finally: Do I think people in general are realistic about what being 'healthy' can do for themselves?
It varies, of course. But there are at least two kinds of "no, they aren't", IMO.
One "no" is the magical thinking, or distorted thinking - things like I wrote about above in myself and others.
The other "no" is about what I learned, viscerally, when I took steps that improved my health in significant ways: First, going from a sedentary blob to a recreational athlete, over a small number of years in my late 40s/early 50s; second, losing from just over the line into class 1 obese to a healthy weight (BMI 21-22ish) at 59-60, and staying there until now (67) while remaining quite active.
Before doing either of those things, I absolutely had no idea how profound the life improvement would be from either one, or how compatible with general life balance and happiness each could be.
I couldn't imagine how people could work out intensely at the "advanced" age of 50, find the hours in the week to be active without it being a trial or sacrifice, and that sort of thing. I couldn't remotely imagine how much better I'd feel once reasonably fit, how much more I could do than I'd ever thought - not just the sport itself, but more daily life stuff that had previously been out of reach - and how much fun it would be getting there and staying there.
Weight loss was similar. It was so much more straightforward and doable than I'd imagined, and the results so much better. There were things I knew intellectually would probably improve (like joint pain), but I didn't have a visceral sense of that. There were things I didn't anticipate: Just an overall better sense of well being, day to day, a psychological lightness added to the physical lightness. (I've wondered if this is an effect of reduced systemic inflammation, without any concrete reason to think that.) There's also, for me, some additional sense of empowerment, the clear instantiation that I have the power to change my own life, and I can apply that power in other parts of life, too. That's heady.
So, no, I think many people aren't realistic about what being healthy means, but there quite a variety of ways in which that's so, not just one.
7 -
snowflake954 wrote: »Well, I'm 68 and a lot of people I know are dead or very ill. The ones that take care of themselves--exercise, eat right, and keep their weight at a reasonable level, can still walk and do normal things. THAT'S the idea. Statistics are on your side. Using the "well I could get hit by a car, or get cancer, or blah, blah" are just excuses. Keeping up normal functions for as long as possible, is the idea. Quality of life in old age is what we're striving for, but you do you.
So, then, in your opinion, what healthy does for us is making it more likely we maintain functionality and quality of life, as we get older, yes?
But not sure about something you said, so just want to check. When you're mentioning someone saying 'well I could get hit by a car, etc...' and that this is an excuse, do you mean an excuse someone uses to NOT bother worrying about being 'healthy?'
Or basically, are you trying to say you think that some people choose to not bother worrying about maintaining their health by copping a kind of 'I have no control, so why bother' type of reasoning? That essentially, they aren't reasonable about what being healthy can do for a person, in terms of considering the potential positives?0 -
Sinisterbarbie1 wrote: »I was healthy before I got cancer. I climbed mountains for fun —big ones. And ran marathons and did yoga and pilates and spin and swimming and I was at a healthy weight. It did not prevent me from getting the most aggressive form of breast cancer (triple negative ) that you can get. But I firmly believe that my pre-cancer lifestyle helped me beat it. ... Low/healthy weight is but one factor among many that contributes to health outcomes, but it is one we have more direct control over than most other factors. So why not try to do what we can to improve the metrics somewhat? Not so much to prolong life, but to make it more livable.
Congratulations on beating that crap. I am glad that you are doing better again, since recovering. I know for myself, making my life as livable as I can is definitely one of my motivations in trying to get my body in better shape as I get older.0 -
Side note: but 'healthy' is a vague term too. Healthy weight? Other things?
The number one reason I lost weight was not because of the odds, but simply because I was tired of being obese. The physical side of it and the lack of self confidence.
Risk of cardiac issues and diabetes minimal in my case (based on family history) but just seeing my mom struggle with just plain walking at a normal speed definitely pushed me in the right direction too.
Feeling how i feel now, just reinforces my motivation to stay at my current weight. Because it feels great. Better odds of not getting ill and better quality of life later on is a bonus.
OH yeah, 'healthy' is super vague, but that's kind of why I was curious how different people view it, and what they think it can do for them, you know?
So, kind of a combination of avoiding some negative situations/consequences, plus having some positives of quality of life, is what you'd say being healthy does for you?
Do you think that you viewed it the same when you started out as you do now, in terms of what matters more? (avoiding negative, gaining positive) Or has your view changed as you've made more progress to your goal?
0 -
My father and grandfather died of heart attacks at age 51. I was 40 and 388 pounds. I've lost 160 pounds in a little over a year. Maybe I still will die at age 50-51 but I'll at least enjoy my life a hell of a lot more! I'm turning 41 in a couple of months and will be running my first 5km on April.2nd race in 15 years
Oh, hey, congratulations! I hope you have a fabulous time.
Do you feel like you have seen a lot of noticeable positive effects from losing the weight? Is it what you expected, or were their some surprises as your health has changed?1 -
Rockmama1111 wrote: »It's not measurable, but feeling good is, in my book, a health benefit. Not just physically, but mentally. I'm proud of myself and excited about my progress, and I love that my clothes fit again. It probably makes me a more pleasant human being. My relationships benefit, my quality of life improves, I have more fun, etc.
I do know that while I can't be sure I'm going to live longer, I for sure know I'd rather have fully mobile hips during the years I have left!
Viewing good health as something that isn't quantifiable seems very viable. Seems like a lot of folks view quality of life as a big part of what they view good health to do for us, and that's just so hard to pin down, as it just means something different for each of us, yeah?
And I totally get it making me a more pleasant person? I am SO much more able to be kind and patient if I am consistently active. Just elevates my mood. I hadn't thought about it being more than just me, LOL.
2 -
snowflake954 wrote: »Well, I'm 68 and a lot of people I know are dead or very ill. The ones that take care of themselves--exercise, eat right, and keep their weight at a reasonable level, can still walk and do normal things. THAT'S the idea. Statistics are on your side. Using the "well I could get hit by a car, or get cancer, or blah, blah" are just excuses. Keeping up normal functions for as long as possible, is the idea. Quality of life in old age is what we're striving for, but you do you.
So, then, in your opinion, what healthy does for us is making it more likely we maintain functionality and quality of life, as we get older, yes?
But not sure about something you said, so just want to check. When you're mentioning someone saying 'well I could get hit by a car, etc...' and that this is an excuse, do you mean an excuse someone uses to NOT bother worrying about being 'healthy?'
Or basically, are you trying to say you think that some people choose to not bother worrying about maintaining their health by copping a kind of 'I have no control, so why bother' type of reasoning? That essentially, they aren't reasonable about what being healthy can do for a person, in terms of considering the potential positives?
I think many people KNOW they need to do something to better their health situation, especially as they age. Younger folks are more inclined to think of the aesthetics because normally health problems hit when you're older.
Many, I think the majority, put off doing something about it with excuses (as @88olds has said many times--your mind works against you and lies). The excuses are sometimes the "why bother" or "what happens, happens", until IT DOES HAPPEN. The excuses are because they don't want to make the effort.
We had very good friends like that here, in Italy, they justified not exercising, even walking very far, and eating all the foods (they were eating healthy after all), and both became obese, which is an anomaly for here. They have 10 yrs on us, but are now almost home bound, both have had strokes, and can hardly walk. They still don't recognize their past lifestyle as the problem.2 -
If Covid didnt wake people up to the fact that being healthy is advantageous than nothing will. The 2 biggest factors in 99.9% of Covid deaths were age and obesity. Now we cant stop aging, but we sure as hell can control obesity and how well we do age. The bottomline with Covid was, if you were healthy before you got it, you werent going to die.....Now everyone can pull up some outliers on anything, but the stats and numbers dont lie. The pandemic should be everyone's wake up call that while being in the best health you can be in is not going to make you invincible, it will never be a detriment and could possibly save your life when things do go bad. I generally rarely get sick, i too got Covid. Im 52 and barely knew i had it. Being healthy did not stop me from getting it, but it damn sure helped how it effected me. There are tons of reasons to take care of yourself. In an unfair world where so many times you cannot control the narrative, but your own personal health and fitness is directly in your control. Its a great way to 'win" everyday in a world that so many times seems unfair. You can control what you eat, and how you exercise.....its awesome. There are no gaurantees that something might not come along that is out of your control one day and destroy your health and well being like cancer, or some type of accident. But if that day ever came not only is being healthy your best shot of living through it, but there is nothing more painful than losing rhe ability to do something that you always wanted but never got around to doing. You never know what tomorrow may bring so why not live your best life today.7
-
My father and grandfather died of heart attacks at age 51. I was 40 and 388 pounds. I've lost 160 pounds in a little over a year. Maybe I still will die at age 50-51 but I'll at least enjoy my life a hell of a lot more! I'm turning 41 in a couple of months and will be running my first 5km on April.2nd race in 15 years
Oh, hey, congratulations! I hope you have a fabulous time.
Do you feel like you have seen a lot of noticeable positive effects from losing the weight? Is it what you expected, or were their some surprises as your health has changed?
My goodness have I ever. My gf randomly commented that my mood has done a 180. I'm full of energy and super happy.
I don't really know what I expected. The task on front of me was so huge that I wasn't thinking that far ahead. I sure as hell didn't expect to be running, let alone down 160 pounds in a year and at my lowest weight since I was 25. A few friends commented that I look 5-8 years younger. It's all been very overwhelming to be honest.
I'm still in the "I can't believe I actually did this" phase.5 -
If Covid didnt wake people up to the fact that being healthy is advantageous than nothing will. The 2 biggest factors in 99.9% of Covid deaths were age and obesity. Now we cant stop aging, but we sure as hell can control obesity and how well we do age. The bottomline with Covid was, if you were healthy before you got it, you werent going to die.....Now everyone can pull up some outliers on anything, but the stats and numbers dont lie. The pandemic should be everyone's wake up call that while being in the best health you can be in is not going to make you invincible, it will never be a detriment and could possibly save your life when things do go bad. I generally rarely get sick, i too got Covid. Im 52 and barely knew i had it. Being healthy did not stop me from getting it, but it damn sure helped how it effected me. There are tons of reasons to take care of yourself. In an unfair world where so many times you cannot control the narrative, but your own personal health and fitness is directly in your control. Its a great way to 'win" everyday in a world that so many times seems unfair. You can control what you eat, and how you exercise.....its awesome. There are no gaurantees that something might not come along that is out of your control one day and destroy your health and well being like cancer, or some type of accident. But if that day ever came not only is being healthy your best shot of living through it, but there is nothing more painful than losing rhe ability to do something that you always wanted but never got around to doing. You never know what tomorrow may bring so why not live your best life today.
In general, being in otherwise good health helped people who got COVID fare better. Certainly not across the board. A group of nine friends, all healthy individuals who eat well and have their weight well under control, all got COVID the same day/place. Ages ranged between 34 and 57 years old. Symptoms were all over the map. The worst case was a 39-year old, very active, until an injury was routinely running in and finishing competitively in 100-mile trail-running races. One of the older two or three people who really could stand to lose 50-75 pounds but is active in his job was the first to test positive; he said it was more mild than the mildest cold he ever had. A few weeks later, a 45-year-old friend who is very healthy and active and who is near ideal weight got it. His was worse than all of ours. There seemed to be no pattern except none were hospitalized, and all survived.
Cards.....
2 -
So, first, let me define what "healthy" means to me, for me specifically: Right now, it means:
- Bringing my fitness and strength to new levels (even though I'm in my 40's)
- Managing and supporting past "memories" (aka, injuries)
- Providing my body with the fuel it needs to perform well
- Maintaining a healthy body fat for me, and one I find attractive on my frame
- Not feeling like I'm starving all the time
- Continuing to improve my "health metrics" including but not limited to: Blood pressure; cholesterol; cardio health; how long I'm "down" with a virus; how quickly I recover from an injury; etc.
I also know that I generally heal very quickly compared to "predictions" or what I see peers deal with. I know I have reduced stress and improved my health and fitness to take my blood pressure from 189/102 down to 135/85 with NO meds in 18 months (and still dropping - slowly at this point, but still getting lower readings over time).
I see fit friends who are 10ish years older than I who are still running tough mudders, recovering quickly from things like a knee surgery or even replacement, etc.
I also know that while I might catch a virus (like covid - more than once lol) it was nothing more than a typical flu for me at worst (couple days knocked on my butt, couple days recovering, and on my way full steam ahead).
Now this was 5.5 years ago, but my last "major" injury was a "pilon" fracture (almost compound) and subsequent infection from a fracture blister. My body fought the infection off so well it took a long time for it to get to a point where it could be diagnosed as such, and once known, while I went through the full treatment program, I was also continuing on with all other activities, including racing my motorcycle. Yes, I was also sure to provide my body fuel and supplements to support itself, but kept up with my activities, too. My fracture (despite the infection) healed ahead of schedule, and hardware was removed ahead of schedule and again, healed very quickly.
I do have the ankle, a shoulder I posterior dislocated, and torn meniscus in both knees that require I keep up with a number of PT type exercises, along with DDD, but again, as long as I keep up with those things in addition to regular workouts (or integrated into my workouts I should say), I would hardly know I have these injuries half the time - the ankle is fubared and hard to ignore as it does limit some movement, but training has helped me adjust to the "new normal" much better, and I doubt a lot of people would even realize how screwed up it is if I don't tell them about it.
I race (road) motorcycles, and still ride on the street too. I have no delusions about any guarantees other than every time I swing a leg over, I might die that day (try not to lol, but it's a reality of the sport you have to accept). I also ride horses. I've lost several friends to cancer. I've also seen some survive major health issues when they made better choices than some others. Maybe it wouldn't have saved someone else, but let's face it, the more odds you can have in your favor, the better.
Just from riding, I'm well aware of the fact that injuries "compound" meaning 1 major injury by itself might be livable, but if someone has that plus several smaller injuries, they might die. Well, if you're going to face down some major unforeseeable issue, why not be sure all of those "injuries" you can mitigate/avoid aren't a problem so your body can focus on fighting the major thing?? Seems like a no-brainer to me. I know many in the world don't want to do the work involved, but asking if it's worth it? Again - no-brainer.2 -
Yes. And, if we meander too far outside of our normal river banks, there is always someone here... to steer us, right back on course.
I still live in a world where people are trying to improve their health. We arrive with our own set of biases and experiences. We learn how to smooth out our bad decisions with better decisions. Very few have a perfect record. Those who are still standing, after all of these years, are very passionate about their quality of health.
Our approaches may be different, but we care. We share a common goal, make it to that finish line, intact. We can trace our hard times back to our choices and decisions. Some are very precise, scientifically logical and numbers oriented. Some are artists and not analysts. I'm buck wild with a down-home twang, but I know what discipline is.
Realistically, it starts with one good decision. Every. Single. Day. When our feet hit that floor, we turn around and make our own bed. We follow through. We take a step. We choose our breakfast foods. All of these little decisions lead to the big ones. We move. We walk out out front door, and walk or run down the road.
We put one foot in front of the other. We don't quit. Just for today, we'll make a series of decisions, that put us in control of how we will feel at the end of the day. We improve daily, with our small decisions. This is how we realistically make all of our big decisions.
Will I join the U.S. Marine Corp or will I choose a different career path. It all starts with learning how to make good decisions and better choices for ourselves. Our bodies remember what our mind forgets. Your body remembers how good you used to feel as a kid. It wants that back.
Today is not the day to give up. One day. One decision. Our bodies are always realistic. It's our head and emotions that we have to convince.1 -
I want to come back in about two things. One is the "life-threatening illness" issue, the other is whether I/others are being realistic.
I just realized that most people may be viewing 'incurable illness' as 'life-threatening illness,' based on responses. I was actually thinking of incurable, but not necessarily life threatening. I myself, and many family and friends, have incurable conditions and illnesses that impact quality of life rather than threatening it completely, although there are definitely folks I know who have the latter.Some people's thought patterns are . . . weird, around life-threatening illness. Magical thinking is common, I think...I had a life-threatening illness, stage III locally-advanced breast cancer. I didn't hide it. (Why?)
There were some people who would question me quite intently about why I thought this would happen, kind of peppering me with questions about diet, exercise, genetics, environmental factors, you name it. In these cases, once they hit on some major "risky" thing that I had done, that they didn't do...looking for the magical reason that I got cancer, but they wouldn't, the magical thing that made them safe.
Magical thinking is the most perfect explanation of what I've witnessed in some of the folks I know - thanks for that. I have a rare disorder that is incurable, seriously impacts my day to day life, and I had the same experience of questioning. Although rather than worries about catching my disease, they often looked for the differences between our lifestyles that were positive on their part. And then would proceed to tell me that if I just adopted X activity/food/exercise/meditation, then I would be cured, no longer in pain, etc...
I have to be very careful about my diet, my physical health, and even my mental health (stress sets off symptoms, too), just to survive. But even seeing that, many people felt that my accepting that I have a disease, that it is permanent, and that there is nothing that can improve symptoms past a certain level, is wrong. By numerous people, I was told that they wouldn't have 'given up' like I was doing. They would 'keep looking' or 'keep trying.'
They don't seem to be able to accept that no amount of 'healthy' behaviors are going to make things better enough to 'be' healthy by their standards. It absolutely makes a difference in my life, but I am still never going to be 'well.' And I have been surprised at how many people seem to think that is an impossibility.
I think I saw this in over 50% of the people who I knew, but it's hard to tell sometimes if it was just a skewed sample size, or if this type of unrealistic thinking/belief is common outside my experience. I appreciate your detailed answer about your own experiences.OK, on to the next: Am I realistic about what being 'healthy' can do for me? ...I think more than I used to be.
I feel that way about myself as well, although I wasn't thinking about the positive side of things until reading your response. I feel more realistic about how fragile and easily lost our health can be, no matter how healthy we try to be to ward against it, since I fell ill. But...I do also feel more realistic about how much even small changes can improve what we have. My life is so much better if I am eating safely and making sure to be as active as I can. Huge positive changes, in many ways.
I think I never considered, before getting sick myself, how individual our own successes are, with re: to our health. Or how individually we could view what being 'healthy' is, and what it does for us. It's been interesting so far to see how different people view it, overall.
Thanks again for the response. And I'm so happy that you survived what you have to get to a better place.2 -
FWIW, I didn't particularly conflate your "incurable" with "life threatening". I posted that because of other comments on the thread about people feeling cheated or that it was unfair that they got cancer, when they'd "done all the right things". That's another manifestation of the magical thinking, I believe.I want to come back in about two things. One is the "life-threatening illness" issue, the other is whether I/others are being realistic.
I just realized that most people may be viewing 'incurable illness' as 'life-threatening illness,' based on responses. I was actually thinking of incurable, but not necessarily life threatening. I myself, and many family and friends, have incurable conditions and illnesses that impact quality of life rather than threatening it completely, although there are definitely folks I know who have the latter.Some people's thought patterns are . . . weird, around life-threatening illness. Magical thinking is common, I think...I had a life-threatening illness, stage III locally-advanced breast cancer. I didn't hide it. (Why?)
There were some people who would question me quite intently about why I thought this would happen, kind of peppering me with questions about diet, exercise, genetics, environmental factors, you name it. In these cases, once they hit on some major "risky" thing that I had done, that they didn't do...looking for the magical reason that I got cancer, but they wouldn't, the magical thing that made them safe.
Magical thinking is the most perfect explanation of what I've witnessed in some of the folks I know - thanks for that. I have a rare disorder that is incurable, seriously impacts my day to day life, and I had the same experience of questioning. Although rather than worries about catching my disease, they often looked for the differences between our lifestyles that were positive on their part. And then would proceed to tell me that if I just adopted X activity/food/exercise/meditation, then I would be cured, no longer in pain, etc...
It's interesting to me that you've seen a similar reaction from some people about your actually-incurable condition that I did to my life-threatening (but survived (so far)) thing.
I'm going to bury some other comments in a spoiler because I think they're responsive to your interesting post that I've quoted, but they really aren't about the topic in your OP.
This next is a complete aside, and I'm absolutely not questioning that your condition is actually incurable (some things are!). It's more the flip side: Now that I think about it, I also see some people around me thinking that certain things are unchangeable that actually are changeable - but that change would be uncomfortable or inconvenient for them. (Isn't change usually uncomfortable in some way, even good change? )
I'm talking about - for example - some friends my age who are obese and physically very out of shape, who are absolutely rock-solid in their belief that they can't lose weight, or that they're too far gone to make any fitness progress at all. There may be cases where that's true (?), but these are people who I'm pretty sure could improve their health, but are using that sense of inevitability of the condition as a reason not to commit to what's required. It's a self-disempowerment.I have to be very careful about my diet, my physical health, and even my mental health (stress sets off symptoms, too), just to survive. But even seeing that, many people felt that my accepting that I have a disease, that it is permanent, and that there is nothing that can improve symptoms past a certain level, is wrong. By numerous people, I was told that they wouldn't have 'given up' like I was doing. They would 'keep looking' or 'keep trying.'
They don't seem to be able to accept that no amount of 'healthy' behaviors are going to make things better enough to 'be' healthy by their standards. It absolutely makes a difference in my life, but I am still never going to be 'well.' And I have been surprised at how many people seem to think that is an impossibility.
Yes. The "don't give up" rhetoric seems like a variation on "blame the victim", besides.
A pernicious variation on this theme, IMO, is people who told me I needed to have a positive attitude, that that was key to surviving cancer. Also, heaven forbid they should have to, but my exasperated thought was that they should just try staying positive every single second in the face of something either life threatening or incurable! Maybe someone can do that, but I can't.
(In the case of cancer, FWIW, there's actual research suggesting no difference in mortality amongst people who were positive vs. grumpy about it.)
Another variation is people who told me in so many words that "God doesn't give us anything we can't handle . . . and I (the speaker) couldn't handle what you're going through." That observation is not a diss of religious belief, which I respect in others, but it's IMO an example of people using a twist on their belief as that kind of magical talisman: They won't get cancer because God knows they couldn't handle it.
Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure that's not how it works. (I also internally eye roll at the "you're so brave" kind of reaction: It's surprising what a person can handle when there literally is no other realistic choice but to handle it, y'know? There's nothing brave about it.)
P.S. The exasperation and eye-rolls are internal. I try to react to people's intentions, i.e., be nice to people when the things they say to me are meant kindly, even if I think some of the logic is way askew, or the word choices undiplomatic. Bless their hearts, y'know?I think I saw this in over 50% of the people who I knew, but it's hard to tell sometimes if it was just a skewed sample size, or if this type of unrealistic thinking/belief is common outside my experience. I appreciate your detailed answer about your own experiences.OK, on to the next: Am I realistic about what being 'healthy' can do for me? ...I think more than I used to be.
I feel that way about myself as well, although I wasn't thinking about the positive side of things until reading your response. I feel more realistic about how fragile and easily lost our health can be, no matter how healthy we try to be to ward against it, since I fell ill. But...I do also feel more realistic about how much even small changes can improve what we have. My life is so much better if I am eating safely and making sure to be as active as I can. Huge positive changes, in many ways.
I think I never considered, before getting sick myself, how individual our own successes are, with re: to our health. Or how individually we could view what being 'healthy' is, and what it does for us. It's been interesting so far to see how different people view it, overall.Thanks again for the response. And I'm so happy that you survived what you have to get to a better place.
Thanks! I'm glad you've found some strategies that help you manage your illness: That's a great example of being clear-eyed and realistic about health, grabbing the reins to drive the situation in the best direction you can find. Some of your "don't give up" friends could take a lesson about what "keep trying" really means, IMO.
I'm enjoying this thread, too - thanks for starting it.0 -
I want to come back in about two things. One is the "life-threatening illness" issue, the other is whether I/others are being realistic.
I just realized that most people may be viewing 'incurable illness' as 'life-threatening illness,' based on responses. I was actually thinking of incurable, but not necessarily life threatening. I myself, and many family and friends, have incurable conditions and illnesses that impact quality of life rather than threatening it completely, although there are definitely folks I know who have the latter.Some people's thought patterns are . . . weird, around life-threatening illness. Magical thinking is common, I think...I had a life-threatening illness, stage III locally-advanced breast cancer. I didn't hide it. (Why?)
There were some people who would question me quite intently about why I thought this would happen, kind of peppering me with questions about diet, exercise, genetics, environmental factors, you name it. In these cases, once they hit on some major "risky" thing that I had done, that they didn't do...looking for the magical reason that I got cancer, but they wouldn't, the magical thing that made them safe.
Magical thinking is the most perfect explanation of what I've witnessed in some of the folks I know - thanks for that. I have a rare disorder that is incurable, seriously impacts my day to day life, and I had the same experience of questioning. Although rather than worries about catching my disease, they often looked for the differences between our lifestyles that were positive on their part. And then would proceed to tell me that if I just adopted X activity/food/exercise/meditation, then I would be cured, no longer in pain, etc...
I have to be very careful about my diet, my physical health, and even my mental health (stress sets off symptoms, too), just to survive. But even seeing that, many people felt that my accepting that I have a disease, that it is permanent, and that there is nothing that can improve symptoms past a certain level, is wrong. By numerous people, I was told that they wouldn't have 'given up' like I was doing. They would 'keep looking' or 'keep trying.'
They don't seem to be able to accept that no amount of 'healthy' behaviors are going to make things better enough to 'be' healthy by their standards. It absolutely makes a difference in my life, but I am still never going to be 'well.' And I have been surprised at how many people seem to think that is an impossibility.
I think I saw this in over 50% of the people who I knew, but it's hard to tell sometimes if it was just a skewed sample size, or if this type of unrealistic thinking/belief is common outside my experience. I appreciate your detailed answer about your own experiences.OK, on to the next: Am I realistic about what being 'healthy' can do for me? ...I think more than I used to be.
I feel that way about myself as well, although I wasn't thinking about the positive side of things until reading your response. I feel more realistic about how fragile and easily lost our health can be, no matter how healthy we try to be to ward against it, since I fell ill. But...I do also feel more realistic about how much even small changes can improve what we have. My life is so much better if I am eating safely and making sure to be as active as I can. Huge positive changes, in many ways.
I think I never considered, before getting sick myself, how individual our own successes are, with re: to our health. Or how individually we could view what being 'healthy' is, and what it does for us. It's been interesting so far to see how different people view it, overall.
Thanks again for the response. And I'm so happy that you survived what you have to get to a better place.
First of all, your question was something I responded to in a generale way. However, I would have answered differently if you had mentioned an incurable illness. Getting one of those depends on genetics, or just plain bad luck. You can better your situation trying to stay as healthy as possible (all of that has been covered), so that you can concentrate on the illness and the way you react to it. You just do your best. Be the best you can be. The mental place one is in will be important to keep keeping on.
Best wishes OP. You seem to be handling this as best you can, and I admire that.1 -
But I still frequently see people who will, say, develop an incurable illness, or an injury that isn't fully treatable, and react with shock, or even anger, because 'I did everything right. I ate healthy, i exercised, I took care of myself.' (I see much less of people who think good health doesn't impact anything)
That was me, I was one of the unrealistic ones. In fairness I had a long history of rarely getting sick, being told by medical professionals that I healed freakishly quickly, etc. Other than some chronic conditions (hypertension, allergies, lymphedema) outside my control I was ridiculously healthy.
My first come-uppance was when I quit smoking. I went from being a heavy smoker who maybe caught a mild cold every three years or so to an ex-smoker who got hit with every bug going around the office. I felt like I was being punished for doing a good thing. That little blip lasted for about a year then I returned to my previous exceptional health.
More recently I had a ruptured appendix. Realistically I know there is nothing a person can do to prevent this. But I remember lying there on the hospital stretcher thinking, "Why is this happening to me? I do everything right! I take such good care of my body and this is how it repays me?" I don't know if that was unrealistic or just a little fit of pique.
In reality, taking care of our own health doesn't make us invincible, it just confers a degree of protection against some ailments and conditions.3 -
The healthier I eat, the more energy I have.
My skin also looks better…2 -
snowflake954 wrote: »Well, I'm 68 and a lot of people I know are dead or very ill. The ones that take care of themselves--exercise, eat right, and keep their weight at a reasonable level, can still walk and do normal things. THAT'S the idea. Statistics are on your side. Using the "well I could get hit by a car, or get cancer, or blah, blah" are just excuses. Keeping up normal functions for as long as possible, is the idea. Quality of life in old age is what we're striving for, but you do you.
bold is mine....
this "well, I could get hit by a car, or...." had me thinking back over the decades and perhaps it is a cultural response - have heard it used, in defiance/defense against doing what would be recommended as good/better for 'you' (as a person) with whatever is being pushed - from 'wear a seatbelt' before it was mandatory, same with helmets... to quitting drinking, smoking or losing weight or whatever else... and.... along with this statement tends to go 'live free or die!' or some such other defiance... (the only ones that come to mind are rather potty mouthed, so will stop at this illustration.)
and in a sense - the sentiment is correct - something 1 way or another will be the end of us...
further, back in the day - people did not know what we know now... that may seem trite, but for example, the cigarette ad suggested smoking for our health. the diet approach suggested nearly eliminating all fats... or that we could lose weight by hooking up to straps that frappe'd our bodies! lol
fortunately, more information is emerging - so we have an opportunity to adjust our lifestyle - which may make life easier physically as we age and/or become ill.
will people use the new/emerging information and change their lifestyle choices? some do, more seem to be but many still don't and I still hear people using the 'something will get me - might get hit by a bus!' and they continue with smoking, vaping, drugs, drinking, feasting... or whatnot... still rings as defiance when I hear it.2 -
In a similar vein to @LifeChangz post, I've often heard a sort of fatalistic "When your time's up, your time's up" approach. (The SO follows this philosophy) Like you have a predestined expiry date and nothing you do will alter that.2
-
@ythannah ~ yes, I was just thinking that about "yolo" ~ you only live once!
on thought - we can find reasons to 'not' or we can find reasons 'to do' ~ it's a very different mindset and how do you get a whole society to shift? In the current environment of working out at the gyms paired with eating out/ginormous servings - it's a bit of mixed messages.... the phrases/reasons that spring to mind for me reach back to childhood, like a parrot of those experiences with those people - changing that is a very conscious shift to make. And, I think involves releasing the old ways of eating/thinking, turning and embracing new, healthier ways of eating/thinking.. I like to envision how my life could be better tomorrow because of the choices i make today - i hope to live a long time without needing other's help to do things like get dressed or even eat... and that is where I so agree that seeking healthy is for me about future quality of life.1
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.6K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.3K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.5K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 431 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.6K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.8K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions