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Using Semaglutides is cheating or not?
Tilran
Posts: 627 Member
in Debate Club
Since this is the debate page, I figured I'd ask the masses here how they feel about someone or themselves using Semaglutides for weight loss such as Wegovy, Ozempic or other Compound Semaglutide forms.
I've found in my personal circle that there is a mixed feeling in this as some people consider it "cheating" and some say any form of weight loss is acceptable.
How do you feel about it?
I've found in my personal circle that there is a mixed feeling in this as some people consider it "cheating" and some say any form of weight loss is acceptable.
How do you feel about it?
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Replies
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Who is it "cheating"? Why do they care? I wouldn't use them myself, the potential side effects just aren't worth it. But I don't care if other people use them, why would I?11
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To me, the idea doesn't even really make sense. I agree with COGypsy.
If someone makes a choice that doesn't affect me at all**, I don't see why I'd even have an opinion about whether they're cheating or not. Cheating what, cheating whom? They're certainly not cheating me! Are people supposed to struggle and suffer to lose weight, because being fat is a sin to be expiated or something, so if it's easier it's cheating? I don't think so.
** In the US, I get that the drugs' costs are redistributed via insurance schemes, and in other countries taxpayers pay for the drugs, but there are economic costs of others' obesity, too - I don't pretend to know where the balance falls on that.
I'm concerned about whether people using the drugs are really registering the long term implications (i.e., I'm concerned for them). Will they continue the drug regimen permanently? What are the long term side effects? Does the drug make it less likely that someone will develop a long-term maintenance strategy that will work? I don't know. (Keeping weight off long term seems to be a problem for many, so I'm not sure the drug adds special risk here.)
Truly fast weight loss does have some health risks, including the risk of losing unnecessarily much lean mass alongside fat mass. That can have implications for future well-being. Since these drugs seem to result in very fast weight loss for some, is that well understood by people making the choice? Again, this is an abstract 3rd-party concern on my part, for the people who are taking the drug. It has nothing to do with "cheating".7 -
I’m not sure there really is any “cheating” when it comes to losing or maintaining weight. Cheating how? And who? I’m almost 50 and, in my life, with weight or with anything else, I’ve found there’s no such thing as a free lunch. You eventually pay for it some way or another.
I’ve seen the debate for “cheating” both with semaglutides and with weight loss surgery. When I was 24, I started the process during which I eventually lost 150 pounds. I did this by changing how much I ate and by increasing my activity. It took two years. Weight loss surgery wasn’t mainstream then and wasn’t even covered by my insurance at the time but even if it had been, I wouldn’t have done it as I didn’t like the idea of permanently altering my internal organs.
Later on, people I know have lost large amounts of weight with WLS. I never thought they cheated and I did it the “right” way. My way was right for me; their way was right for them. Plus, they still had to change how much they ate and they still had to increase their activity. The WLS was an extra tool but in exchange for that tool, they take a chance with complications, and are physically limited to how much and what kinds of foods they can and can't eat. And, just like with any other weight loss, you can gain back weight if you don't maintain. There was no free lunch. We just paid differently.
Same with the semaglutides. I have T2D and have seen the “cheating” debate on diabetes groups where some feel that non-diabetics should not be able to take semaglutides for weight loss. I'm not going to make that judgment. It is a stereotype that all type 2 diabetics are overweight but it is true that obesity and lack of physical activity are large risk factors. Obesity can also cause or exacerbate a lot of other health issues. It’s not a moral issue; it’s medical. I don’t see the difference if I were to ask my doctor for semaglutides for T2D and an obese non-diabetic asking for it to assist with weight loss to alleviate a different health issue.
I’ve never taken semaglutides and hope never to have to. I don’t like what I’ve read about the side effects, especially gastroparesis, and I don’t want the cost. Losing the 40 pounds I gained during the pandemic was free and that also allowed me to discontinue Metformin, which was only $2.00 a month. That decision turned out to be right for me; it might not be right for someone else. For someone else, the side effects and cost are acceptable for the benefits they receive. We all pay differently but we still all pay.10 -
Since this is the debate page, I figured I'd ask the masses here how they feel about someone or themselves using Semaglutides for weight loss such as Wegovy, Ozempic or other Compound Semaglutide forms.
I've found in my personal circle that there is a mixed feeling in this as some people consider it "cheating" and some say any form of weight loss is acceptable.
How do you feel about it?
Those are typically prescribed to the very obese population for which losing weight may be a matter of life or death and can be very beneficial as it can help them drop weight pretty quickly, which in that situation is probably pretty important. These meds are typically pretty expensive as well.
There are however people who are forking out thousands of dollars for these meds to lose 20 Lbs or whatever of vanity weight...I don't know that I'd call it cheating, but it's pretty ridiculous. Most people can lose that kind of weight on their own, but the success rate dips with natural weight loss when you start talking about hundreds of pounds to lose...not that it can't be done, but I have rarely run into anyone IRL that has lost hundreds of pounds without some kind of intervention whether that was surgery or medication.1 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Since this is the debate page, I figured I'd ask the masses here how they feel about someone or themselves using Semaglutides for weight loss such as Wegovy, Ozempic or other Compound Semaglutide forms.
I've found in my personal circle that there is a mixed feeling in this as some people consider it "cheating" and some say any form of weight loss is acceptable.
How do you feel about it?
Those are typically prescribed to the very obese population for which losing weight may be a matter of life or death and can be very beneficial as it can help them drop weight pretty quickly, which in that situation is probably pretty important. These meds are typically pretty expensive as well.
There are however people who are forking out thousands of dollars for these meds to lose 20 Lbs or whatever of vanity weight...I don't know that I'd call it cheating, but it's pretty ridiculous. Most people can lose that kind of weight on their own, but the success rate dips with natural weight loss when you start talking about hundreds of pounds to lose...not that it can't be done, but I have rarely run into anyone IRL that has lost hundreds of pounds without some kind of intervention whether that was surgery or medication.
The thing is, many people deal with food addiction to which semaglutides help with regardless if they have 30 pounds to lose or 100 pounds. I should be around 165-170 to be in great shape....I'm 205. So I have roughly 30-40 pounds to lose. The issue for me is food addiction and "food noise". I think Semaglutides might help me in that regard, but as you mentioned, the cost is extreme and has potential negative effects.7 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Since this is the debate page, I figured I'd ask the masses here how they feel about someone or themselves using Semaglutides for weight loss such as Wegovy, Ozempic or other Compound Semaglutide forms.
I've found in my personal circle that there is a mixed feeling in this as some people consider it "cheating" and some say any form of weight loss is acceptable.
How do you feel about it?
Those are typically prescribed to the very obese population for which losing weight may be a matter of life or death and can be very beneficial as it can help them drop weight pretty quickly, which in that situation is probably pretty important. These meds are typically pretty expensive as well.
There are however people who are forking out thousands of dollars for these meds to lose 20 Lbs or whatever of vanity weight...I don't know that I'd call it cheating, but it's pretty ridiculous. Most people can lose that kind of weight on their own, but the success rate dips with natural weight loss when you start talking about hundreds of pounds to lose...not that it can't be done, but I have rarely run into anyone IRL that has lost hundreds of pounds without some kind of intervention whether that was surgery or medication.
The thing is, many people deal with food addiction to which semaglutides help with regardless if they have 30 pounds to lose or 100 pounds. I should be around 165-170 to be in great shape....I'm 205. So I have roughly 30-40 pounds to lose. The issue for me is food addiction and "food noise". I think Semaglutides might help me in that regard, but as you mentioned, the cost is extreme and has potential negative effects.
Naltrexone has been known to help with this as well. I take it to curb alcohol cravings and it's helped a lot. It is also prescribed to opioid addicts and food addicts. It inhibits excessive dopamine reception so you don't actually get the high, so the behavior no longer becomes worth it. It also doesn't really have many side effects and my insurance covers it 100%...it's been out forever so even if insurance doesn't cover it 100%, it's very cheap.
I'd probably at least give it a whirl before using semaglutides. A friend of mine has been taking Ozempic because he was about 400+ Lbs and it's helping him quite a bit (I think he's down about 100 Lbs), but definitely has it's side effects.2 -
Since this is the debate page, I figured I'd ask the masses here how they feel about someone or themselves using Semaglutides for weight loss such as Wegovy, Ozempic or other Compound Semaglutide forms.
I've found in my personal circle that there is a mixed feeling in this as some people consider it "cheating" and some say any form of weight loss is acceptable.
How do you feel about it?
After reading some of the replies here, @Tilran, I'm curious: Was there any pattern amongst the people in your circle when it comes to whether the people of one opinion or the other had ever needed to lose weight, had lost a significant amount of weight (with regain, without regain), or had tried but failed to lose weight?
It could be unrepresentative as this thread goes on, but so far there seems to be a leaning toward "not cheating" in the replies here so far. This site probably over-represents people who've either lost weight or who are seriously trying to lose weight.
That makes me wonder if having lost weight, or seriously tried, made people more likely to lean toward "not cheating". Did you notice any patterns? ("No" is a perfectly valid answer.
) 3 -
Using semaglutides doesnt mean you don't have to put in the work as well. The weight doesn't just fall off! In fact as a person who gained over 100lbs due to Narcolepsy and the medications I had to take for it, I couldnt lose weight at all when sticking to the guides on My Fitness Pal because people with Narcolepsy typically eat less and have slower metabolism. So I didnt lose any much weight on 1mg semaglutide in the 6 months I was on it....despite eating between 1500 and 1800 a day which this App while connected to my Fitbit, said would lose me 1.5lbs a week but for me was actually a normal days eating.
To lose weight I had to cut to 1400 calories or less a day, go to semi personal weights training x3 a week, walk fast for an hour the other days, and take Liraglutide (I was prescribed that officially as Semaglutide not yet licensed for weight loss in my country even though liraglutide twice as expensive and half as effective!!). I lost 40bs in 7 months being strict with exercise and diet (on Saxenda for 5 of these months) and gained 7 in the past 2 months not being strict about diet (still under 1800 though) and slightly less strict about exercise though still hitting 5 days a week. I feel Saxenda has not made me lose weight though it brought down my blood sugar levels from pre diabetic to normal. However I'm probably unusual as I'm missing the main neuropeptides that regulate weight and sleep...Orexins 1 and 2. Bit of a bummer!
Now I need to kickstart the weight loss again and get back to tracking every morsel...its so difficult to do for such a long time. Been at it 12 months now bar the last two.
By the way I've had no side effects bar a bit of burping for a week or two on full dose of Ozempic. None on Saxenda at all. Or should I say, none that I can see!
Imo they just cut out the noise for some people who actually eat too much. For me, the issue is not eating too much by normal standards but eating normal levels IS eating too much for a person with Narcolepsy sadly. This is difficult and I'm not so sure Liraglutide is doing anything more than what I'm doing myself anyway. It certainly hasn't lost me anything in the past 2 months...and that's just been eating a little less carefully...not pigging out or drinking alcohol!
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The number of people suffering from the complications of obesity cannot be underestimated. Thus, the promise of semaglutides are enormous. This is potentially the biggest health breakthrough since the invention of bariatric reduction. I'm sure we'll learn more about the medication as time goes by, and hopefully (for the sake of those who need it) it will remain promising.
I think that the many of us who have controlled their weight by "sheer willpower" have a tendency to become smug. But, the urge to over-eat varies by individual and may require intervention.10 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »I have rarely run into anyone IRL that has lost hundreds of pounds without some kind of intervention whether that was surgery or medication.
I've lost 150lbs naturally. But i put it back on. Then I took it off again. Then I put it back on, etc. I have an IRL buddy who lost ~250lbs and seems to be maintaining.
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Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »The number of people suffering from the complications of obesity cannot be underestimated. Thus, the promise of semaglutides are enormous. This is potentially the biggest health breakthrough since the invention of bariatric reduction. I'm sure we'll learn more about the medication as time goes by, and hopefully (for the sake of those who need it) it will remain promising.
I think that the many of us who have controlled their weight by "sheer willpower" have a tendency to become smug. But, the urge to over-eat varies by individual and may require intervention.
This was incredibly well said.4 -
If taking a specific medicine is considered "cheating", then is all medicine considered "cheating"? Should we go back 500 years where no medicine exists?8
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I got prescribed metformin for type 2 diabetes. I love that one of the side effects is lack of hunger. Between the metformin and using MFP down 20 lbs in a month and half. I don't consider it cheating.
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I don't consider it cheating.
I'm leery of new drugs, especially if you're considering them for a condition that is not near-term life-threatening or likely to cause major, irreversible damage (like organ failure). So for people with Type 2 diabetes or morbid obesity, it might make sense to take a chance on something still relatively new if more established treatments aren't sufficient for you, but to do so if you're just overweight or even class I obese -- well, it's everybody's individual choice, but for me, I think I'd defer until there's more history of the drug in large populations.
Of course, that's easy for me to say, since the traditional method of counting calories worked for me.
Also, I would be uncomfortable taking a drug that seems to be suffering from scarcity if my health issues from my weight didn't carry a high short-term risk, given reports that people with diabetes are having a hard time getting the drug.1 -
IF we were on the Biggest Loser, than yes. But we're not. This ain't a contest.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
6 -
I don't feel anything about what someone else does, because it's none of my business and doesn't affect me.
Cheating on who or what?
Unless you're involved in a weight loss bet or contest, MYOB.0 -
Since this is the debate page, I figured I'd ask the masses here how they feel about someone or themselves using Semaglutides for weight loss such as Wegovy, Ozempic or other Compound Semaglutide forms.
I've found in my personal circle that there is a mixed feeling in this as some people consider it "cheating" and some say any form of weight loss is acceptable.
How do you feel about it?
After reading some of the replies here, @Tilran, I'm curious: Was there any pattern amongst the people in your circle when it comes to whether the people of one opinion or the other had ever needed to lose weight, had lost a significant amount of weight (with regain, without regain), or had tried but failed to lose weight?
It could be unrepresentative as this thread goes on, but so far there seems to be a leaning toward "not cheating" in the replies here so far. This site probably over-represents people who've either lost weight or who are seriously trying to lose weight.
That makes me wonder if having lost weight, or seriously tried, made people more likely to lean toward "not cheating". Did you notice any patterns? ("No" is a perfectly valid answer. )
This is a great observation! I think you may be right. The people in my circle who consider it cheating, are all more on the fit side. They go to the gym regularly, eat right etc. Could be that they feel threatened that their hard work and discipline is being threatened by an "easy" fix. Great observation1 -
Since this is the debate page, I figured I'd ask the masses here how they feel about someone or themselves using Semaglutides for weight loss such as Wegovy, Ozempic or other Compound Semaglutide forms.
I've found in my personal circle that there is a mixed feeling in this as some people consider it "cheating" and some say any form of weight loss is acceptable.
How do you feel about it?
After reading some of the replies here, @Tilran, I'm curious: Was there any pattern amongst the people in your circle when it comes to whether the people of one opinion or the other had ever needed to lose weight, had lost a significant amount of weight (with regain, without regain), or had tried but failed to lose weight?
It could be unrepresentative as this thread goes on, but so far there seems to be a leaning toward "not cheating" in the replies here so far. This site probably over-represents people who've either lost weight or who are seriously trying to lose weight.
That makes me wonder if having lost weight, or seriously tried, made people more likely to lean toward "not cheating". Did you notice any patterns? ("No" is a perfectly valid answer. )
This is a great observation! I think you may be right. The people in my circle who consider it cheating, are all more on the fit side. They go to the gym regularly, eat right etc. Could be that they feel threatened that their hard work and discipline is being threatened by an "easy" fix. Great observation
You know your friends best, so I'm just speculating here: If these are people who've pretty much always been at a healthy weight and active, and find that life a relatively/easy happy thing for them, I wonder if they might underestimate the difficulty of weight loss or fitness improvement for people who have a much different history, and possibly different genetics.
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I'd have to say no. It's the most effective way to lose weight and keep it off, but that is over a 2 years period which is what the research shows and I'm comparing it to the normal dietary strategies that wain pretty much after about 6 months. It's the best weight loss medicine that I know exists at the moment.
The problem that will never go away is deciding what your going to do with this weight loss. Eventually a person might stop taking the medication for various reasons and if just going back to eating the foods that resulted in that weight gain they're more than likely just going to gain the weight back and then some. It's the perfect time to reassess and consider different lifestyle changes that will help prevent future weight gain, and in that respect it's a very good alternative therapy. imo0 -
I don't think there is a way to cheat. If it's a tool you can use, and it works for you and helps you get healthier, then by all means use it.
I went on them, for Type 2 Diabetes though. After I lost enough to be weaned off insulin and glimepiride, I still needed help to lose weight & keep my blood sugar stable. So they started me on Bydureon, then switched to Ozempic, and finally when Ozempic became scarce they put me on Mounjaro. Those helped me with weight loss for a while but they also didn't sit well with me and screwed up my digestion badly so I went off them.
Going from a balanced ADA diet to controlled carb, then low carb, and then very low carb was more effective for me in the long run. Sometimes I also get from people that very low carb is "cheating", lol.
If someone loses 100 lbs and gets healthier with injections, or weight loss surgery, or a certain type of diet/meal plan, or whatever... and it helps/no bad side effects, I say go for it. Along the way everyone has to make changes on an as-needed basis, sure, however using whatever tools work for you isn't cheating anything.2 -
" For someone else, the side effects and cost are acceptable for the benefits they receive. We all pay differently but we still all pay. [/quote]"
really good answer. We all do pay just differently. My sister had bariatric surgery and even though she has loss a lot of weight, fundamentally she hasn't learned any new nutrition skills just smaller portions of junk. The price she pays is the restriction in her portions as well as a limitation in how much water she can drink, which is a big issue in Australia.
I hope my path will be different. I am changing and learning new skills
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I have an IRL buddy who lost ~250lbs and seems to be maintaining.
[/quote]
what is IRL?0 -
"" For someone else, the side effects and cost are acceptable for the benefits they receive. We all pay differently but we still all pay.
really good answer. We all do pay just differently. My sister had bariatric surgery and even though she has loss a lot of weight, fundamentally she hasn't learned any new nutrition skills just smaller portions of junk. The price she pays is the restriction in her portions as well as a limitation in how much water she can drink, which is a big issue in Australia.
I hope my path will be different. I am changing and learning new skills
[/quote]
To be fair to your sister, on some level, smaller portions of junk is a new nutritional skill compared to large portions of junk. And yes, absolutely, every form of weight loss has its own "price" to pay in its own way. I agree.1 -
This drug has been in trials for years. The side effects are really typical of most drugs. You are under Drs care while taking it like any other drug.
I truly believe it is a personal choice but I feel bad for people who are considering it and all the noise by nay sayers. Some people can barely walk or breathe. If they had control this wouldn’t even be an issue. This drug can really help get things started and get them motivated, moving.2
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