Body Recomp & Hunger

This makes me wonder if I should maintain for a few months before starting a new fitness adventure if you will. Or just doing something so small where it doesn’t effect my maintenance routine too much.

This is most certainly what *I* did. Probably closer to the second part (doing things that didn't affect my new maintenance routine much in either direction). Of course I was coming from a different perspective (obese) and the maintenance part was, in my mind, CRITICAL.

Basically I started from "learned helplessness" = I can't possibly lose weight and maintain the loss successfully. To: "you know, I can actually lose weight for more than a few months at a time and arrange things so that I don't give up". To: I really do need to stick the landing/there is nothing more important than the landing.

So I went into the landing fully prepared to fight the statistics. And the statistics are fairly dismal. So I can't in any way shape or form find fault with someone spending months in making sure the landing worked.

Of course I was coming from more than a year in deficit... albeit stopping at a point of significantly more plentiful energy reserves than you (i.e. my stopping is closer to where you started--and that's not even counting relative fat % between M-F). But basically it took more than a year of stable weight and maintenance eating before "I woke up one morning" and felt both mentally and physically that maintenance and my maintenance calories were my default and normal and that it was 'easier' to continue as I was. and that my hunger cues COULD be trusted.


While the standard bodybuilding cycle of leaning out and then bulking may get the best/fastest/most impressive results, to me it does NOT sound like it would be a good adventure for you.

Sometimes what's optimum is finding the right balanced way of getting where we want.

@ddsb1111, I hope you're realizing that "essential fat" is defined as the level of fat needed for healthy physiological functioning, not the amount it's essential to get down to for best health?

Some elite athletes or female body builders might get below that, either for performance reasons (less weight to propel through space) or because bodybuilders do have some compensatory extra body mass in the form of muscle.

For reference, though this is BMIs rather than BF%:

https://www.runnersworld.com/health-injuries/a20793992/bmis-of-champions-womens-edition/

If you're actually at 21%, that's pretty reasonable ("fitness" level of body fat on most rankings is 20-24% for women). I'm not arguing with your contention that you'd prefer to lose a bit more fat, either, just saying you may be in a good spot to start maintaining weight and building fitness.

If you want another estimate of body fat, you could run one of the online "Navy Body Fat" calculators online, such as this one:

https://www.calculator.net/body-fat-calculator.html

It's just another estimate, not gospel, but looking at multiple free sources/estimates may give you a better feel for probable range. Another source is the visual charts (photos or drawings) of what particular body fat levels look like on women (though body configuration does matter!).

I used to have a link to one that used more measurements as input, but I can't find it just now.

ddsb1111 wrote: »

Retroguy2000 wrote: »

Here's a good example from a YouTuber I follow, Mark Lewis, with him and his wife talking about her fitness journey. This is why you don't aim to overshoot on the way down.

Key part at 15m-18m, should be time stamped. She was focused on her weight, the number on the scale, thinking she could only look better if that number went down. She started lifting and working out more. She gained 4.4 pounds while greatly improving body composition and posture, and she likes the way she looks here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUXjbINwTfA&t=900s

Thanks for linking this video I’ll definitely take a look. A lot of women my age are stuck on a ridiculous number created by movies and magazines from when we were teens. It was a big deal in my generation to have the lowest number possible. I’m relieved the newer gens have shifted that thinking by quite a lot and embrace strength, curves, and food!

I’m comfortable with recomp and not a specific number. I wish I could figure out the hunger and neat issue though so I can knock out my workout and move on 😊. So much respect for the vets on this side of the fence cause this is tricky!

I don't have any good videos to support this opinion, but my intuition from experience is that if we build up our exercise routine somewhat gradually, with attention to sufficient recovery built into the schedule, the hunger/NEAT thing will be easier to figure out and manage.

"Build up" is referring to the combination of exercise type, frequency, duration, and intensity. Unfortunately, I do think which combinations are most fatiguing or appetite-spiking is somewhat individual, and probably interacts with sleep, nutrition quality, and calorie intake . . . among other things.

IMO, too many people dive into a challenging routine all at once. For fitness development, that's not essential, maybe not even a great idea. A manageable challenge at all times, progressively building up that combination (type, frequency, etc.) as one gets fitter, seems like a better approach to me.

If we don't want to feel like we got hit by a Mack truck, maybe don't step in front of one, metaphorically speaking.

A person can make amazing progress with a gradual build up, with consistency and patience, IME.

ddsb1111 wrote: »

Per the Runnersworld link apparently Tatyana Lysenko (hammer throw) 23.4 and I are about the same. Why no one thought to recommend the hammer throw is beyond me.

At one point when I was substantially overweight, I learned that the US Women's Olympic hockey team goalie was about my height and weight. I joked that all I needed to do was become an Olympic athlete . . . .

Retroguy2000 wrote: »

ddsb1111 wrote: »

I’d also be okay with being at a tiny deficit and building muscle to maintain my weight, but I didn’t think we could do that?

[SNIP]

Re your OP, IMO you should focus on zone 2 cardio. Brisk walks, low effort cycling, that sort of thing. In my experience, strenuous cardio or a really good weights session can produce not only more hunger, but also reduced NEAT for a portion of the remainder of the day. Thus when adding say 400 exercise calories burned into MFP and thinking you can eat 400 more, but your NEAT drops by say 200, if you actually eat back all those exercise calories you'll be in a surplus. OTOH, a lower effort cardio session is easier, and doesn't result in reduced NEAT or increased hunger.

As for food, focus on protein and fiber of course to feel satiated, and help with muscle building. With weights, I find it best to plan eating around the session time into my daily totals, e.g. a snack an hour before, and soon after, both with some protein.

Yup, after snow shoeing my appetite is spiked and I'm glued to the sofa.

But usually the weather doesn't cooperate well enough for me to do it more than a few times a year, and none at all last winter.

With swimming, I have to be careful not to overdo it - about a half hour is my sweet spot - and hydrate very thoroughly immediately afterwards.