Intermittent Fasting
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I love how we went from intermittent fasting to eating insects
(We've probably lost the OP along the way...)
I'm glad you find it interesting and that it doesn't "bug" you too much....
@neanderthin - I surprise myself that I'm still squeamish about it. I hope that will change and that others will join me. I'm waiting to see them in the store. There was a local business here making cricket flour - easy to use, and you can kind of ignore where it's from. Kind of the way people buy meat in pre-wrapped containers and don't actually have to be intimately involved in the killing and butchering of animals in order to have a ribeye.2 -
I love how we went from intermittent fasting to eating insects
(We've probably lost the OP along the way...)
Haha, that happens a lot.
I wonder if early humans engaged in fasting. Paleolithic human engaged in what is called persistent hunting, a method that involved tracking an animal until it collapsed from exhaustion which required endurance, tracking skills and knowledge of animal behavior, all the time in a state of ketosis or mostly in that state, which was a normal metabolic state of Paleolithic human existence. This very well might have influenced and helped the evolution of human physiology and psychology. One adaption that seems to have been crucial was the ability to store adipose tissue where our ancestral primate cousin couldn't, being chimpanzees and bonobos who we share 99% of our DNA with, which allowed hominins to move from the comfort of the trees and jungle to venture out into the savanna and beyond. Yeah, I've also gone down the anthropologic rabbit hole.
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I'm not sure that the way paleolithic peoples ate is terribly relevant today. I remember hearing an in-depth science-oriented discussion of the "Paleo diet" (probably something like Science Friday though I don't recall with certainty). The evolutionary biology perspective was that 10,000 years was more than plenty enough time to have adapted to a more agrarian-style diet.
It's certainly off topic for this thread.3 -
I love how we went from intermittent fasting to eating insects
(We've probably lost the OP along the way...)
I'm glad you find it interesting and that it doesn't "bug" you too much....
@neanderthin - I surprise myself that I'm still squeamish about it. I hope that will change and that others will join me. I'm waiting to see them in the store. There was a local business here making cricket flour - easy to use, and you can kind of ignore where it's from. Kind of the way people buy meat in pre-wrapped containers and don't actually have to be intimately involved in the killing and butchering of animals in order to have a ribeye.
One of my other interests is mucking in the stock market and I particularly like immerging markets. I have an investment in a local company that produces insect protein in the millions of lbs a year, which has turned a decent return in 2 years, and I like AI companies, anyway, yeah insect protein is definitely an immerging market that I suspect has lots of room for growth and expansion, well into the future. Not so keen using it for a big part of my protein intake, I'll leave that with the WEF and when they're consuming it on a regular basis I may change my stance.0 -
I'm not sure that the way paleolithic peoples ate is terribly relevant today. I remember hearing an in-depth science-oriented discussion of the "Paleo diet" (probably something like Science Friday though I don't recall with certainty). The evolutionary biology perspective was that 10,000 years was more than plenty enough time to have adapted to a more agrarian-style diet.
It's certainly off topic for this thread.
There's lots of studies that show the impact of agrarian diets on pretty much every indigenous people from quite a few different countries where they switched from their ancestral diets to agrarian ones, it's certainly interesting.0 -
neanderthin wrote: »I'm not sure that the way paleolithic peoples ate is terribly relevant today. I remember hearing an in-depth science-oriented discussion of the "Paleo diet" (probably something like Science Friday though I don't recall with certainty). The evolutionary biology perspective was that 10,000 years was more than plenty enough time to have adapted to a more agrarian-style diet.
It's certainly off topic for this thread.
There's lots of studies that show the impact of agrarian diets on pretty much every indigenous people from quite a few different countries where they switched from their ancestral diets to agrarian ones, it's certainly interesting.
A quick shift, as we see in relatively recent times when isolated indigenous people suddenly switch diets into foods from the more developed world isn't really an analogue to (say) European heritage people who've had an opportunity to evolve more gradually with a shift in society-wide practices.
This is not an argument in favor of the SAD as we know it now. Certain features of SAD have a longer history, but a lot of it is things that have emerged over perhaps the past century.1 -
I understand what your saying but we were talking in reference to Paleolithic times.
And to your point, I read a few months ago that the grandchildren and children of the mountain shepherd people of Ikaria in Sardinia, who are the famous blue zone indigenous people that come back to their ancestral homes for a visit where apparently the adults said they preferred french fries to other potato preparations, but the interesting part is that potatoes were not known to Ikarians and were first imported around 50 years ago.0 -
So should I be ordering the dark chocolate or the milk chocolate crickets? Or are cricket brownies the way to go?2
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So should I be ordering the dark chocolate or the milk chocolate crickets? Or are cricket brownies the way to go?
Try them all!
I'll come eat some with you so we can compare notes.
I want to get the fried crickets like street food snacks in Asia. I want to feel less squeamish about eating grasshoppers. Will I get there? Who knows. First step is finding someone who wants to feed them to me.1 -
Need a bug thread...
Lol3 -
neanderthin wrote: »Didn't fare so well? Compared to what? Most paleoanthropologists agree that once infant mortality rates were removed which I believe was calculated after the age of 5, but I'd have to check, life span was calculated to between 70 and 80 years, the same rate as that found in contemporary industrialized societies.
Caveman compared to modern people.
But I think this tangent has run its course so not commenting further on that.
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Cavemen also only got about 20-30 years old and most children died before the age of 4. Maybe their diet was healthy kind of compared to nowadays, but their health was not good, and starvation was common. On that note, when talking about the classical Greek and Roman period, live expectancy also was very low, maybe even a wee bit lower on average. Imagine a society of young people with the occasional outliers.1
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Cavemen also only got about 20-30 years old and most children died before the age of 4. Maybe their diet was healthy kind of compared to nowadays, but their health was not good, and starvation was common. On that note, when talking about the classical Greek and Roman period, live expectancy also was very low, maybe even a wee bit lower on average. Imagine a society of young people with the occasional outliers.
I have a few flint and stone arrowheads in my collection from the Canadian pacific northwest but yeah, some lived in caves and others populated lands like North America which started about 40,000 years ago until the land bridge disappeared as the ice sheet that covered most of the northern hemisphere receded about 12,000 years ago and numbers seem to be thought in and around 3-5 million people. This was happening in every country despite as you say with bad health and starving most of the time, but I suspect intermittent fasting was alive and well back then. In North America the vast majority were hunting cultures so it was probably the saturated fat and cholesterol that killed everyone off early in life. Not sure if after colonization their life span increased though.
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So should I be ordering the dark chocolate or the milk chocolate crickets? Or are cricket brownies the way to go?
Try them all!
I'll come eat some with you so we can compare notes.
I want to get the fried crickets like street food snacks in Asia. I want to feel less squeamish about eating grasshoppers. Will I get there? Who knows. First step is finding someone who wants to feed them to me.
The ones I ate were deep fried and then put in a spice mixture and they were pretty tasty I will admit and I did come back for more a few days later. When in Rome as they say.
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I love how we went from intermittent fasting to eating insects
(We've probably lost the OP along the way...)
I'm glad you find it interesting and that it doesn't "bug" you too much....
@neanderthin - I surprise myself that I'm still squeamish about it. I hope that will change and that others will join me. I'm waiting to see them in the store. There was a local business here making cricket flour - easy to use, and you can kind of ignore where it's from. Kind of the way people buy meat in pre-wrapped containers and don't actually have to be intimately involved in the killing and butchering of animals in order to have a ribeye.
It would be hard for me to get over the "yuck" factor with whole insect. But I'd use powdered cricket. Probably not for flour. For my purposes, with few exceptions, it's hard to beat wheat flour.0 -
Many great posts both pro and con. I've fasted several times since I started this thread. I found 18 hours is too much for me. I did 15 hours just yesterday. What shocked me was my glucose levels went up. I don't quite understand it. I guess it's because your body is dumpling stuff into your system. How's that for being technical.
It appears there is no one way to lose weight. I've been down and up over the last 10 years. What's working for me is diabetic meal planning. I don't diet anymore. I lost 10 pounds in the last 22 days. I'm not starving myself. I eat healthier than I ever have. The real trick is to stay away from carbs and sugar. In the past it was burger biggie all the time. I'm down about 90 pounds now. However 70+ was from being sick for over a year. That was caused by diabetes. I didn't know. I should have but I didn't. The only smart thing I did was make a doctor's appointment after I fainted. The nurse said I had the highest A1C ever in that office, 14.7. Not only did they give me strong advice on what to eat and not eat they had the Wellness Center contact me. They meant business. So now I workout with a trainer 3 times a week and see a dietician as well. Some of those workouts are brutal for a 70 year old man. I try to play the "Age Card" as much as possible. Doesn't help.
In regards to older folks don't absorb protein as well as they should. I believe you. I've seen it first hand. My meals consist of Salmon, steak, chicken, legumes, and lean gound beef. The rest is veggies and fruits. Fruits that are not high in sugar and veggies that aren't full of starch.
I really enjoyed the comments, very well thought out.
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Many great posts both pro and con. I've fasted several times since I started this thread. I found 18 hours is too much for me. I did 15 hours just yesterday. What shocked me was my glucose levels went up. I don't quite understand it. I guess it's because your body is dumpling stuff into your system. How's that for being technical.
It appears there is no one way to lose weight. I've been down and up over the last 10 years. What's working for me is diabetic meal planning. I don't diet anymore. I lost 10 pounds in the last 22 days. I'm not starving myself. I eat healthier than I ever have. The real trick is to stay away from carbs and sugar. In the past it was burger biggie all the time. I'm down about 90 pounds now. However 70+ was from being sick for over a year. That was caused by diabetes. I didn't know. I should have but I didn't. The only smart thing I did was make a doctor's appointment after I fainted. The nurse said I had the highest A1C ever in that office, 14.7. Not only did they give me strong advice on what to eat and not eat they had the Wellness Center contact me. They meant business. So now I workout with a trainer 3 times a week and see a dietician as well. Some of those workouts are brutal for a 70 year old man. I try to play the "Age Card" as much as possible. Doesn't help.
In regards to older folks don't absorb protein as well as they should. I believe you. I've seen it first hand. My meals consist of Salmon, steak, chicken, legumes, and lean gound beef. The rest is veggies and fruits. Fruits that are not high in sugar and veggies that aren't full of starch.
I really enjoyed the comments, very well thought out.
Every single persons fasting blood sugar spikes first thing in the morning for example, and that's called the "dawn phenomena" The mechanisms are hormonal. When we sleep our blood sugar drops, mostly because we're not eating and it generally goes below base line, which is normal. Throughout the night certain hormones rise to help stabilized blood sugar which are cortisol, glucagon, adrenaline and human growth hormone and just before we wake up blood sugar rises to help us wake up, it happens to everyone. Mostly it goes undetected and most people aren't measuring their blood glucose levels either. That's one reason. Another is, if a person is IR, which you are the blood spike from just eating will be higher simply because your resistant to insulin and protein will effect insulin levels. If your using a glucose monitor you'll see all these effects. The main focus should be, so your not complicating it is to maintain those lower carb calories and higher fat and if your A1C is tracking lower, your weight is coming down then morning or inter day spiking is noise for the most part and your Doctor should know this, well, we hope they do. Also intermittent fasting's cumulative effect is increased insulin sensitivity.
The whole point of the ketogenic diet as it relates to IR and diabetes is to create a situation where your more insulin sensitive and blood sugar is actually a secondary effect so don't get too caught up with blood sugar levels, they will always fluctuate but it's how insulin sensitive the body is and it's ability to remove that sugar, which is always reflected in someones A1C, it's a little hard to understand I think, it took me a while to figure that out. Increasing Insulin sensitivity is one of the features and effects that comes with the ketogenic diet better than any other diet.
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Ty for the explanation @neanderthin .
It all can seem so incomprehensible, even after/with explanation, because? Of multi-contributing factors?
What i find helpful are actions, and from Neanderthin's description... would say...
To assist in bringing down bs#'s by increasing insulin sensitivity...
Exercise helps bring down, some things more so, like combo cardio/strength training 20 mins a day has perhaps the most enduring afterburn impact, 24+ hrs i have read.
A brisk 10 min walk right after eating can help minimize the hike spike from eating.
Re IF and dawn phenomena - crazy right? Liver dumps bs even without eating in the morning hours....
Re low-carb/super low carb, tried that when my bs tripled triggered from a med. Had no impact until med gradually left body over a year and had to use diabetic meds instead of food & exercise efforts...
Even now, to this day.. wish for a cure.... until then, it is totally worth doing what we can to improve, maintain and slow down progression of diabetes.
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EpochAhead wrote: »Ty for the explanation @neanderthin .
It all can seem so incomprehensible, even after/with explanation, because? Of multi-contributing factors?
What i find helpful are actions, and from Neanderthin's description... would say...
To assist in bringing down bs#'s by increasing insulin sensitivity...
Exercise helps bring down, some things more so, like combo cardio/strength training 20 mins a day has perhaps the most enduring afterburn impact, 24+ hrs i have read.
A brisk 10 min walk right after eating can help minimize the hike spike from eating.
Re IF and dawn phenomena - crazy right? Liver dumps bs even without eating in the morning hours....
Re low-carb/super low carb, tried that when my bs tripled triggered from a med. Had no impact until med gradually left body over a year and had to use diabetic meds instead of food & exercise efforts...
Even now, to this day.. wish for a cure.... until then, it is totally worth doing what we can to improve, maintain and slow down progression of diabetes.
Yep. It's more than just the morning though, it can be anytime where the body requires glucose. We have to remember first that the glucose that stored in muscle (glycogen) is only available for that muscle and isn't used in any other cells in the body whatsoever. So, if we get up and decide not to eat and miss lunch and have something to eat say at 3:00 or when we're sleeping the body will generate glucose for other organs and the brain that require some glucose all the time for example, through a process called "glycogenolysis" also known as "gluconeogenesis" and believe it or not to supplement that limited glucose supply the liver also produces another substrate called ketones and that's called "ketogenesis". Most people think ketones only get generated in a ketogenic diet but the body actually produces them in small amounts daily for everyone for this expressed usage. 0 -
jennywren93 wrote: »Dr. Fung is a great resource. If you think back to caveman days, they ate when food was around, and didn't when there wasn't any. There is nothing wrong with fasting, it helps bring down your blood sugar (using glycogen stores) and breaking down fat for energy. I don't do OMAD so that I reduce my calorie intake (CICO), but to gain lower blood sugar, more energy and better mental health. I track, but don't care about calories, I am focusing on reaching my fat/protein goals. I am carnivore for the most part. And when I'm not carnivore, I'm still single ingredient foods - like adding tomatoes and cheese to have a "carnivore pizza" etc. Feel free to reach out about any questions for fasting, I've been doing it a while now
In a hunter-gather society, if there was no food around, they moved on to somewhere that had a food supply, dug deeper (literally, for grubs and tubers), or starved. It wasn't some natural, idyllic, weight-control mechanism.5
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