Intermittent Fasting

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  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,921 Member
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    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    jennywren93 wrote: »
    Dr. Fung is a great resource. If you think back to caveman days, they ate when food was around, and didn't when there wasn't any. There is nothing wrong with fasting, it helps bring down your blood sugar (using glycogen stores) and breaking down fat for energy. I don't do OMAD so that I reduce my calorie intake (CICO), but to gain lower blood sugar, more energy and better mental health. I track, but don't care about calories, I am focusing on reaching my fat/protein goals. I am carnivore for the most part. And when I'm not carnivore, I'm still single ingredient foods - like adding tomatoes and cheese to have a "carnivore pizza" etc. Feel free to reach out about any questions for fasting, I've been doing it a while now ;)

    In a hunter-gather society, if there was no food around, they moved on to somewhere that had a food supply, dug deeper (literally, for grubs and tubers), or starved. It wasn't some natural, idyllic, weight-control mechanism.

    Absolutely. Although there were time, extended times, where food for their clans/immediate family would be almost non existent and would need to survive for many days before they procured any. We do know that people can fast for extended periods of time living off adipose, so not really out there in left field. and of course if they didn't find any food, well that would be their demise, no doubt. imo
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 13,637 Member
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    So you select for success in the game of "less likely to lose weight when there is less food around" and "more easy to add fat reserves when there is ANY food around" bodies and brains. Gotcha.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 32,166 Member
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    jennywren93 wrote: »
    Dr. Fung is a great resource. If you think back to caveman days, they ate when food was around, and didn't when there wasn't any. There is nothing wrong with fasting, it helps bring down your blood sugar (using glycogen stores) and breaking down fat for energy. I don't do OMAD so that I reduce my calorie intake (CICO), but to gain lower blood sugar, more energy and better mental health. I track, but don't care about calories, I am focusing on reaching my fat/protein goals. I am carnivore for the most part. And when I'm not carnivore, I'm still single ingredient foods - like adding tomatoes and cheese to have a "carnivore pizza" etc. Feel free to reach out about any questions for fasting, I've been doing it a while now ;)

    So cheese counts as a single ingredient food now? Interesting.

    (Not a criticism of cheese, BTW. I eat quite a lot of the stuff myself.)
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 13,637 Member
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    PAV8888 wrote: »
    So you select for success in the game of "less likely to lose weight when there is less food around" and "more easy to add fat reserves when there is ANY food around" bodies and brains. Gotcha.

    And then the successfully bred bodies and brains land on MFP....

    .... is the bit that didn't make it in before the "gotcha" :wink:
  • claireychn074
    claireychn074 Posts: 1,340 Member
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    Going back to eating insects. I’m sure I saw an article ages ago saying people with allergies to house dust mites shouldn’t eat insects - anyone seen anything along those lines / any evidence to the contrary? It’s not a real issue for me as my local Tesco isn’t exactly selling insects - yet - but I’d always thought I’d be happy to try insect protein powder. Except I am asthmatic and dust mites set me off 🤷‍♂️
  • mtaratoot
    mtaratoot Posts: 13,239 Member
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    claireychn074 wrote: »
    Going back to eating insects. I’m sure I saw an article ages ago saying people with allergies to house dust mites shouldn’t eat insects - anyone seen anything along those lines / any evidence to the contrary? It’s not a real issue for me as my local Tesco isn’t exactly selling insects - yet - but I’d always thought I’d be happy to try insect protein powder. Except I am asthmatic and dust mites set me off 🤷‍♂️

    I think I remember from Daniella Martin's book, people with shellfish allergies might also have allergies to insects because there are similar proteins in their exoskeletons. I suppose they could be the same proteins that cause dust mite allergies.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,921 Member
    edited March 5
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    claireychn074 wrote: »
    Going back to eating insects. I’m sure I saw an article ages ago saying people with allergies to house dust mites shouldn’t eat insects - anyone seen anything along those lines / any evidence to the contrary? It’s not a real issue for me as my local Tesco isn’t exactly selling insects - yet - but I’d always thought I’d be happy to try insect protein powder. Except I am asthmatic and dust mites set me off 🤷‍♂️

    Yeah, I looked into this a while back and it's all speculative with no actual studies or science to back it up. A mechanism which is thought to be a problem is tropomyosin a protein in dust mites that people can be allergic to, but that compound is also in shellfish, tofu and soy beans. Tropomyosin for the most part is found in the exoskeleton of insects, so I suspect that is why they say if a person is actually allergic to dust mites, then it's probably makes sense not to eat grasshoppers for example, but it would also be advisable to avoid seafoods with exoskeletons like shrimp, crab, lobster and also clams and mussels and of course tofu and soy beans. The problem is it might not be the tropomyosin because there's not been any actual studies and they're basically assuming it's not a good idea. A controlled study would sus out all of these confounders and with feces and decaying bodies of actual dust mites that go along with inhaling these mites that might have something to do with it.....a lot. And if they were more thorough in their recommendations and really want people to avoid any anaphylaxis they would have also said to avoid shellfish and soy but they don't from what I can tell.
  • claireychn074
    claireychn074 Posts: 1,340 Member
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    neanderthin wrote: »
    claireychn074 wrote: »
    Going back to eating insects. I’m sure I saw an article ages ago saying people with allergies to house dust mites shouldn’t eat insects - anyone seen anything along those lines / any evidence to the contrary? It’s not a real issue for me as my local Tesco isn’t exactly selling insects - yet - but I’d always thought I’d be happy to try insect protein powder. Except I am asthmatic and dust mites set me off 🤷‍♂️

    Yeah, I looked into this a while back and it's all speculative with no actual studies or science to back it up. A mechanism which is thought to be a problem is tropomyosin a protein in dust mites that people can be allergic to, but that compound is also in shellfish, tofu and soy beans. Tropomyosin for the most part is found in the exoskeleton of insects, so I suspect that is why they say if a person is actually allergic to dust mites, then it's probably makes sense not to eat grasshoppers for example, but it would also be advisable to avoid seafoods with exoskeletons like shrimp, crab, lobster and also clams and mussels and of course tofu and soy beans. The problem is it might not be the tropomyosin because there's not been any actual studies and they're basically assuming it's not a good idea. A controlled study would sus out all of these confounders and with feces and decaying bodies of actual dust mites that go along with inhaling these mites that might have something to do with it.....a lot. And if they were more thorough in their recommendations and really want people to avoid any anaphylaxis they would have also said to avoid shellfish and soy but they don't from what I can tell.
    Interesting, thanks. Insects certainly seem an alternative and possibly more ecologically sound source of protein than some intensively-farmed meat or dairy, so I’ll be watching with interest to see how it takes off.
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 13,637 Member
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    I stuff up and eye water and sneeze when I inhale sufficient dust mites. I eat shellfish including their shells in the case of prawns 🤷‍♂️
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,921 Member
    edited March 5
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    claireychn074 wrote: »
    neanderthin wrote: »
    claireychn074 wrote: »
    Going back to eating insects. I’m sure I saw an article ages ago saying people with allergies to house dust mites shouldn’t eat insects - anyone seen anything along those lines / any evidence to the contrary? It’s not a real issue for me as my local Tesco isn’t exactly selling insects - yet - but I’d always thought I’d be happy to try insect protein powder. Except I am asthmatic and dust mites set me off 🤷‍♂️

    Yeah, I looked into this a while back and it's all speculative with no actual studies or science to back it up. A mechanism which is thought to be a problem is tropomyosin a protein in dust mites that people can be allergic to, but that compound is also in shellfish, tofu and soy beans. Tropomyosin for the most part is found in the exoskeleton of insects, so I suspect that is why they say if a person is actually allergic to dust mites, then it's probably makes sense not to eat grasshoppers for example, but it would also be advisable to avoid seafoods with exoskeletons like shrimp, crab, lobster and also clams and mussels and of course tofu and soy beans. The problem is it might not be the tropomyosin because there's not been any actual studies and they're basically assuming it's not a good idea. A controlled study would sus out all of these confounders and with feces and decaying bodies of actual dust mites that go along with inhaling these mites that might have something to do with it.....a lot. And if they were more thorough in their recommendations and really want people to avoid any anaphylaxis they would have also said to avoid shellfish and soy but they don't from what I can tell.
    Interesting, thanks. Insects certainly seem an alternative and possibly more ecologically sound source of protein than some intensively-farmed meat or dairy, so I’ll be watching with interest to see how it takes off.

    I look at it a little different. I think insect protein is a great source to compliment meat and dairy and I think it's a forgone conclusion that will happen in the future and I've invested financially in a company that produces insect protein and in 2 years it's been a good investment and I don't see that segment drying up or slowing down anytime soon.
  • Aesop101
    Aesop101 Posts: 758 Member
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    I'm not eating insects (intentionally). Animals that eat insects have developed a way to digest them and as far as I know humans haven't. Let the WHO eat them. That'll be a great way to keep them at bey.
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 8,995 Member
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    But in parts of Asia eating insects is common - indigenous Australians pre arrival of Europeans too - and I suspect many other hunter/gatherer societies.
    Would be unlikely to be such widespread practice if humans could not digest them
  • claireychn074
    claireychn074 Posts: 1,340 Member
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    Aesop101 wrote: »
    I'm not eating insects (intentionally). Animals that eat insects have developed a way to digest them and as far as I know humans haven't. Let the WHO eat them. That'll be a great way to keep them at bey.

    I would also add that most products have an allowable percentage of insects in them, it varies per country and insect but one figure is 3% by weight. That means 3% of flour etc is potentially insect. So we’re kind of eating them already.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,921 Member
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    claireychn074 wrote: »
    Aesop101 wrote: »
    I'm not eating insects (intentionally). Animals that eat insects have developed a way to digest them and as far as I know humans haven't. Let the WHO eat them. That'll be a great way to keep them at bey.

    I would also add that most products have an allowable percentage of insects in them, it varies per country and insect but one figure is 3% by weight. That means 3% of flour etc is potentially insect. So we’re kind of eating them already.

    Yeah, 3% doesn't sound like a lot but it's nowhere near that high. Even 0.1% is considered very high. For example the FDA allows 75 insect fragments per 50 grams of flour and by percentage that is about 0.015%, so not close to 3%. It looks like it depends on the product and it's exposure to insects, but I could be wrong there, anyway. For example, peanut butter can have 4 insect fragments per tbsp. pasta can have 450 fragments per pound, cinnamon 400 per 50g's, oregano 1150 per 10g's, chocolate 100g's 60.

    The Hadza tribe of the riff valley in Tanzania have a long tradition of collecting honey and when they consume the comb they're eating everything attached and that includes the larvae, small whole bees, everything, so we've been doing that I'd imagine the first time a human came across honey, and of course there's the fact that most Americans won't for the most part consume offal, so I suspect if it's not pretty and all packaged up it's probably not going to be eaten, shout out to the eatable coating on all vegetables and their uniformity. Immune systems unite, eat dirty organic food, lol, we need our insect quotient for the day. :)

  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 33,960 Member
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    OH. Please don't ruin peanut butter for me, neanderthin. It's a whole food group unto itself.

    >>>>LaLaLaLaLa<<<<< I cant' hear you!!!
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,921 Member
    edited March 12
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    cmriverside wrote: »
    OH. Please don't ruin peanut butter for me, neanderthin. It's a whole food group unto itself.

    >>>>LaLaLaLaLa<<<<< I cant' hear you!!!

    Haha, sorry but every plant food, because that's where the insects live, will have some fragments, embrace the extra protein. :D
  • claireychn074
    claireychn074 Posts: 1,340 Member
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    cmriverside wrote: »
    OH. Please don't ruin peanut butter for me, neanderthin. It's a whole food group unto itself.

    >>>>LaLaLaLaLa<<<<< I cant' hear you!!!

    No no - this is good! You’re actually getting more protein than you thought! 🤣🤣
  • mtaratoot
    mtaratoot Posts: 13,239 Member
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    Aesop101 wrote: »
    I'm not eating insects (intentionally). Animals that eat insects have developed a way to digest them and as far as I know humans haven't. Let the WHO eat them. That'll be a great way to keep them at bey.


    You are mistaken.

    Humans evolved eating insects. It might have been that the protein that insects provided allowed humans to evolve at all. Even the story of the exodus of the ancient Isrealites from Egypt has references to eating insects. One of the ten plagues was locusts. When that plague was over, the locusts were blown out to sea rather than just fall on the ground. Had they fallen on the ground, the Egyptians would have feasted on them. The dietary laws outlined in Leviticus allows certain insects. Many people believe that "manna from heaven" was locusts.

    Humans have a long history of eating insects, and our bodies have no problem digesting them. Lots of people eat crab, lobster, or shrimp. These are essentially sea insects.


  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 32,166 Member
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    I hate to break it to the "insects are icky" crowd, but they're not just a contaminant in "non-insect" foods.

    Food grade shellac is an exudate of the Indian lac bug, sort of insect poo or sweat (by analogy). Confectioner's glaze contains it, and many shiny candies are coated with that. Examples: Junior Mints, Milk Duds, Jelly Bellies, candy corn and other "Mellocreme" candies like them, plus some medications, chewing gum, and more.

    Cochineal insects are crushed to provide ingredients for some common "natural" red dyes used in foods or cosmetics.

    L-Cysteine, used as a dough conditioner in some baked goods among other uses, may be synthetic, or be processed from sources including human hair, duck feathers, or insect shells.

    You're eating insects, much more than likely. You might as well use the cricket flour, unless you're vegetarian/vegan.

    OP, apologies for continuing the digression.
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 8,995 Member
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    Humans have a long history of eating insects, and our bodies have no problem digesting them. Lots of people eat crab, lobster, or shrimp. These are essentially sea insects.

    I agree with your post - as indeed you were furthering my point about humans digesting insects.

    Being pedantic - yes I agree many western culture people eat crab, lobster, shrimp (prawns)

    However many people throughout the world eat 'actual insects' they just aren't part of our western culture idea of food- this idea that humans cannot digest insects defies any logic or simple observance beyond our own time and culture.

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