Address body fat or stick to bulking?

No need to apologize for a post full of nice detail. That's really helpful.

I think we've found the culprit

"my maintenance calories are 2,600... Peanut butter is a big staple for me."

Are you measuring that peanut butter? Or if that's too much hassle, make sure you're the only person using the container, and average your daily calories from it based on how long the container lasts you. That is stacked in calories, so that alone could be putting you into the calorie surplus you're noting.

As you're probably aware, it sounds like your calipers approach needs some work. The Navy method is good, assuming you're sure you measured correctly at the right places? I ask because I think that 18.6% may be on the high side. 165 pounds at 6ft isn't all that much, and you've clearly got a lot of good definition in your arms and upper back, and appear quite lean except for the developing tummy you mentioned. If you're actually below 18.6, it's probably only by 1-2%, is my guess.

Regardless of your actual bf %, what's important is how you feel about it. Based on your post, it sounds like you're in a surplus and have been for some weeks at least probably. Do you know how much your weight has changed recently? Since that would inform you of your calorie surplus.

You have to choose what's best for you. Based on everything you've said, it sounds like stopping the calorie surplus is the priority. Stay at real maintenance for a while, i.e. slightly below where you are now, keep doing the lifting, and if the tummy fat starts to recede, consider then adding a small surplus back.

It sounds like you're on the right track. Honestly though, you're not gonna keep a lean physique while bulking. Putting on some fat is just a part of it. If you can't deal with that, then bulking isn't for you. I would say if gaining mass is the goal, then continue the bulk. You have a good physique now, but if you're coming from being lean/jacked, it can be weird switching mentalitys into a bulk phase. It's just part of it. Keep training hard, and aim for about a .5 -1lb a week gained. Adjust your calories accordingly. If you're only worried about the belly fat, then do a small cut. Peanut butter is really calorie dense, which may be fine depending on what your calorie goals are, but measure it accurately so that you know how many calories you're eating. You could always try switching to PB Fit instead, if it's something you enjoy, but don't want all the calories. Good luck!

Retroguy2000 wrote: »

claireychn074 wrote: »

I can’t comment on a bulk as I don’t train that way (more recomp) but I can tell you that I’m lifting heavier each year (50 this year, started at 42) so I haven’t yet peaked: I eat more than I ever have, and have bigger muscles than I ever have. Any early sarcopaenia has more than reversed. But I have to plan my recovery more than I did in my 20s (different sports) otherwise I feel dreadful.

Has your weight changed in that time? Just wondering if that's 100% recomp, or a very long lean bulk.

Good question. I lost weight originally as I’d put on about a stone of fat over two years following a rotator cuff tear, which meant I had to stop swimming. So I found an S&C coach to get mobility back and start strength training. I went from just over 60kg to 53kg - low body fat but not great muscle mass. Went up to 55.5kg in about 5-6 years, and in the last 12 months I’ve been on a hypertrophy journey so have put on nearly 2kg. I’m guessing that might be a lean bulk even though I’m calling it a recomp? 🤔

Retroguy2000 wrote: »

claireychn074 wrote: »

Good question. I lost weight originally as I’d put on about a stone of fat over two years following a rotator cuff tear, which meant I had to stop swimming. So I found an S&C coach to get mobility back and start strength training. I went from just over 60kg to 53kg - low body fat but not great muscle mass. Went up to 55.5kg in about 5-6 years, and in the last 12 months I’ve been on a hypertrophy journey so have put on nearly 2kg. I’m guessing that might be a lean bulk even though I’m calling it a recomp? 🤔

Your bw has increased 8% from the low, over quite a few years. Recomp generally implies maintenance calories or slight deficit, which would mean constant bw or slow drop. It's also not a lean bulk though, which is often defined as 5%-10% increase to maintenance, which would be about 100-300 calories. Your bw increase is far slower than that.

I think maingaining is the best way to define your situation. That term has some ambiguity too depending who you ask, but I like the way Coach Greg Doucette talks about it which is gaining muscle while keeping bf % constant, i.e. slowly increasing weight without increasing bf %. That definition puts it sort of in the middle between lean bulk and recomp.

Do you mind me asking if you needed surgery for the rotator cuff issue and did it recover to 100%? Asking because I felt a shoulder impingement a while ago and I think it's nearly 100% recovered thanks to doing some rehab including more dead hangs, and switching up how I did a couple of exercises. That's a relief.

I haven’t heard of maingaining - I’m nicking that! I think my body fat was a bit low at 15% for my age and time of life, so 23% feels healthier.

My rotator cuff tear was only partial and yes, it’s recovered. I won’t say healed as I’m not sure it has technically healed (haven’t had a scan recently) but I went from not being able to lift my arm above shoulder height to now being able to snatch and jerk. I spent two years with limited mobility and pain, had three injections and saw four surgeons, with two recommending surgery and two not. All the traditional advice to immobilise and not work the area caused more pain. It actually only took about four months to get full range of mobility back without pain with the correct exercises. My coach focuses on building up my shoulders and traps and that supports the shoulder. So yep, definitely possible to heal the shoulder but I think the right exercises are really important.

I had shoulder impingement in both shoulders (at the same time!), severely aggravated by being stupid in a too-rapid bench press progression. X-rays showed surgery was not needed, doc put me in PT. Worked PT with a trainer for about two months, continued the PT for another 3-4 months on my own before I felt well enough to resume normal lifting. Only residual lasting effect is my shoulder range of motion is decreased to where I can put my arms out straight to my sides, 180 degrees from arm to arm, but cannot go back further. (A few degrees further if my arm is close to my ribs.) I cannot do Olympic lifts (never did before, so no loss for me), and I have to be VERY focused doing bench presses, which no longer allow the bar to touch my chest at the lowest point. Not sure if further PT would enhance my range of motion or not, but I'm able to do all my daily life activities just fine, and only a couple limits in the gym, so I've seen no reason to force the issue.

mlujan8 wrote: »

Timewaitz4no1 wrote: »

It sounds like you're on the right track. Honestly though, you're not gonna keep a lean physique while bulking. Putting on some fat is just a part of it. If you can't deal with that, then bulking isn't for you. I would say if gaining mass is the goal, then continue the bulk. You have a good physique now, but if you're coming from being lean/jacked, it can be weird switching mentalitys into a bulk phase. It's just part of it. Keep training hard, and aim for about a .5 -1lb a week gained. Adjust your calories accordingly. If you're only worried about the belly fat, then do a small cut. Peanut butter is really calorie dense, which may be fine depending on what your calorie goals are, but measure it accurately so that you know how many calories you're eating. You could always try switching to PB Fit instead, if it's something you enjoy, but don't want all the calories. Good luck!

Right on, this makes a lot of sense. I think the small cut sounds like my best bet at the moment, so I will proceed accordingly.

One thing I also wonder about. As a middle aged guy now, I know I can't train the way a 20-something would, as well as eat a ton of calories like they would. Given that metabolism slows down and age-related muscle loss increases, is it still recommended to follow a traditional bulk with consuming upwards of 3,000+ calories a day? I figured something like 200 calories above maintenance would be a good place to start, and then assess from there. Thanks for your insight!

mlujan8 wrote: »

Timewaitz4no1 wrote: »

It sounds like you're on the right track. Honestly though, you're not gonna keep a lean physique while bulking. Putting on some fat is just a part of it. If you can't deal with that, then bulking isn't for you. I would say if gaining mass is the goal, then continue the bulk. You have a good physique now, but if you're coming from being lean/jacked, it can be weird switching mentalitys into a bulk phase. It's just part of it. Keep training hard, and aim for about a .5 -1lb a week gained. Adjust your calories accordingly. If you're only worried about the belly fat, then do a small cut. Peanut butter is really calorie dense, which may be fine depending on what your calorie goals are, but measure it accurately so that you know how many calories you're eating. You could always try switching to PB Fit instead, if it's something you enjoy, but don't want all the calories. Good luck!

Right on, this makes a lot of sense. I think the small cut sounds like my best bet at the moment, so I will proceed accordingly.

One thing I also wonder about. As a middle aged guy now, I know I can't train the way a 20-something would, as well as eat a ton of calories like they would. Given that metabolism slows down and age-related muscle loss increases, is it still recommended to follow a traditional bulk with consuming upwards of 3,000+ calories a day? I figured something like 200 calories above maintenance would be a good place to start, and then assess from there. Thanks for your insight!

There's no way around it. If you want to put on size, you have to eat more calories. Don't get caught up limiting yourself based on your age. I completely reject the thought that you can't eat, or train as hard as someone in their 20's. The only real disadvantage with getting older as a guy, is that your testosterone #'s won't be where they were when you were younger, so you may not progress at the same rate, with everything else being equal. Irregardless, I'd recommend the same exact path as someone that's younger. Train hard while progressively overloading the weight, get your protein in, and back fill the rest of your calories in a smart way. As I said before, aim for that .5 -1 lb gained per week mark, and adjust your calories to that number. So for example, if over a month, you put on 6-7lbs, just scale the calories back a bit to get back within that .5 - 1lb per week range. If your not gaining in that range, adjust them up. Don't worry about the number of calories your eating, just focus on how quickly your gaining weight. The reason is that anything over that .5 - 1lb gained per week, and your going to put on a higher fat to muscle ratio. The goal is to put on as much muscle as you can without excess fat. I would start with eating 2-300 calories over whatever your maintenance is, and see where your weight goes from there. The body is always trying to find homeostasis, even at a higher calorie intake. I cut my cardio in half, progressed up to 3k calories a day, And still plateaued lol. For reference, I'm 49 (6'2) and bulked through the fall/winter, going from 190ish up to 208. I'm now doing a light cut and am down to 203. I'll see what I'm looking like around 195-200, but I'm happy with my progress so far. Keep grinding, brother!

mlujan8 wrote: »

Timewaitz4no1 wrote: »

It sounds like you're on the right track. Honestly though, you're not gonna keep a lean physique while bulking. Putting on some fat is just a part of it. If you can't deal with that, then bulking isn't for you. I would say if gaining mass is the goal, then continue the bulk. You have a good physique now, but if you're coming from being lean/jacked, it can be weird switching mentalitys into a bulk phase. It's just part of it. Keep training hard, and aim for about a .5 -1lb a week gained. Adjust your calories accordingly. If you're only worried about the belly fat, then do a small cut. Peanut butter is really calorie dense, which may be fine depending on what your calorie goals are, but measure it accurately so that you know how many calories you're eating. You could always try switching to PB Fit instead, if it's something you enjoy, but don't want all the calories. Good luck!

Right on, this makes a lot of sense. I think the small cut sounds like my best bet at the moment, so I will proceed accordingly.

One thing I also wonder about. As a middle aged guy now, I know I can't train the way a 20-something would, as well as eat a ton of calories like they would. Given that metabolism slows down and age-related muscle loss increases, is it still recommended to follow a traditional bulk with consuming upwards of 3,000+ calories a day? I figured something like 200 calories above maintenance would be a good place to start, and then assess from there. Thanks for your insight!

Well . . . recent research suggests metabolism doesn't slow down much until around age 60, and then it's pretty gradual:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8370708/

Age related muscle loss does happen eventually, but for most people an early start on that comes from not routinely working hard enough to remind the body that they want to keep and grow those muscles, and/or maybe some sub-par protein intake alongside. (Spreading ample protein through the day may be more important with age, too, vs. when younger.)

Yes, the so-called calorie calculators say older people burn fewer calories. That's probably more because the statistically average person's total life habits (work, home, exercise, etc.) become more sedentary as years go on, and most people's muscle mass decreases through inactivity. There are some research-based formulas that will take body fat percent into account. This is an example that shows some of those formulas:

https://www.sailrabbit.com/bmr/

If I run those formulas with my rough-estimated body fat percent, they estimate I'd burn the same BMR (basal metabolic rate) calories at 68 (my actual age) as at 20 with the same body fat percent. From other sources, the average woman my age/height/weight probably runs mid- to high 30s percent body fat; I'm more in the mid-20s according to multiple estimating methods ( . . . and I'm no workout beast, just more active than average).

Don't be too quick to believe the "aging is doom" nonsense in the popular culture blogosphere. Individuals vary. Also, compared to me, you're a mere youth.

Best wishes!