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Time-Restricted Eating - Early Shift

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  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,339 Member
    edited June 2024
    Adventurista wrote: »
    neanderthin wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    "Early time-restricted eating, especially 16:08 strategy, appears to be an effective strategy to decrease body weight, fat mass, abdominal obesity and inflammation, but less likely to decrease fat-free mass."

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1871402124000134?via=ihub

    Yeah, this is well documented and I've mentioned that a few time previously, ad nauseum I suspect.

    What's interesting is that short term fasting, within 24-48 hours is basically a survival mechanism that was adapted during our evolutionary past. Short term fasting actually increases metabolism by increasing our norepinephrine which promotes fat burning and energy usage which by default preserves lean fat mass. Basically a physiological response that helped optimize the body's energy usage during times of food scarcity and ensuring there is enough energy for crucial survival tasks. IF is also good and I would say crucial for our microbiome as well.

    over the years, various eating approaches have been strongly advocated, and particularly to 'not skip breakfast and/or lunch or meals' for a variety of stated reasons like better mental performance post-breakfast or to prevent ravenous eating/bingeing later in the day.

    So it, again, is a bit of mental whiplash to see opposite recommendations, and beyond to have a significant number of medical providers push 1 direction versus the other.

    As I read and try to sort the info, it is hard just as a non-medical or science professional... it is difficult to discern anymore what truly is a better/best... since recommendations are so opposite in approach.

    For me personally, I would be a sleep nightowl, and natural hunger does not appear until late afternoon... so I would be late shift.

    Beyond that, my fav meals out at restaurants/feasts are more than the body needs in a whole day, so whatever approach I use, i need to understand how much is enough and stop at that.

    My additional concern is how a quantity of carbs in a single meal evokes particular hormone/chemical responses, so I prefer not to have too much in a particular meal which necessitates shift the rest of the calories into fats and proteins, or dividing overall/carb amounts into more than 1 eating event.

    Beyond that, I wish there were definitive on impact of the macros in single eating events or across days or???

    And secondarily, i suppose, is to consider emotional satisfaction with the actual eating approach...

    Combined for me, eat enough, not too much, foods that nourish my body, that I also enjoy. Low carb seems to be better physically and emotionally with food/carbs limited and spread across the day - so don't do TRF at this time.

    I take more of an holistic approach to my wellbeing, which took me down a path that required more understanding of nutrition in general and how that might effect me. Basically it's a ground up approach, which turned out to pretty much be the opposite of the standard advice set, which from what I can tell is just a best guess that most agree with to try and keep a population happy and healthy, which so far hasn't worked out so well.

    The advice for the Med diet for example if I read just once, that we should be eating nose to tail and consuming brain and intestines and also include lard and fat from the animals that most people of the Med had on their own piece of land from time emporium and simply doing for thousands of years I might have taken the standard advice more seriously, but to tell you the truth I'm kind of glad it's so blatantly biased and obviously based in politics, large entities like the food and pharma and the obvious money and power plays that when just doing simple research it works out to be pretty glaring how ridiculous it all looks, but that's just my opinion. People should take on a more active roll in dicovering ways to improve their own health as oppose to worry if they go off the ubiquitous guidelines bad health and death is waiting, lol. Again just my opinion, but I am a contrarian. :)

  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,339 Member
    edited June 2024
    chris_in_cal wrote: »
    neanderthin wrote: »
    or maybe I'm not interpreting the definition properly.

    Communication can be tricky.

    My observations and the question I was trying to pose are: Nearly everyone I've read here on MFP who writes about their experiments with Time-Restricted Eating says something like -

    "I wake up from a night's sleep and do not eat for several hours. Then I eat starting later in my day, until before going to bed again for the night."

    The semantics of naming it "early shift" or "late shift" aren't important (and can be confusing).

    I've observed that most TRE people who responded concurred that they practice this technique: "I wake up from a night's sleep and do not eat for several hours."

    I was curious about others who might "Wake up from a night's sleep and eat, and then continue to eat for a few hours, and stop eating a much longer time before they go to bed."

    The people practicing TRE here on MFP seem to come mostly from just one group. Some of that group wrote that the timing is irrelevant. When I observe a majority going in one direction, I become curious: Why in that direction and not the other? An answer of "stop thinking about that, it doesn't matter, it is irrelevant." doesn't make me less curious.

    This one study's hypothesis is the same thing that makes me curious. Is there, in fact, any difference? I still don't know. It's just one study, but now, when someone writes, "Stop thinking about that; it doesn't matter," I'm buoyed by the fact that some researchers are wondering the same thing I am.

    I don't do any specific IF at all and just eat in a pretty consistent pattern which generally reflects a 14-16 hours of no consumption of food anyway, I rarely have breakfast.

    TRF originally had nothing to do with what a person eats or how much a person eats, it's all about how the body repairs and rejuvenates itself and how that on a timeline will adjust our metabolic health which also works in harmony with our circadian rhythm and other physiological aspects and hopefully if done consistently it could translate into better overall health in our later years, basically old age. If your doing it for weight loss then really the only factor that should be observed is, does it help create a situation where the person eats less and loses weight, full stop.

    Whether you do it early or late will has no consequences if weight loss is the main goal, other than a preference that would facilitate a better outcome for that weight loss. Also that study just showed that 16:8 had a more profound effect, which is a given considering the longer repair and rejuvenation down time, kind of a no brainer really. imo.
  • chris_in_cal
    chris_in_cal Posts: 2,627 Member
    neanderthin wrote: »
    Whether you do it early or late will has no consequences if weight loss is the main goal
    Maybe. You might be right.
  • COGypsy
    COGypsy Posts: 1,386 Member
    chris_in_cal wrote: »
    neanderthin wrote: »
    or maybe I'm not interpreting the definition properly.

    Communication can be tricky.

    My observations and the question I was trying to pose are: Nearly everyone I've read here on MFP who writes about their experiments with Time-Restricted Eating says something like -

    "I wake up from a night's sleep and do not eat for several hours. Then I eat starting later in my day, until before going to bed again for the night."

    The semantics of naming it "early shift" or "late shift" aren't important (and can be confusing).

    I've observed that most TRE people who responded concurred that they practice this technique: "I wake up from a night's sleep and do not eat for several hours."

    I was curious about others who might "Wake up from a night's sleep and eat, and then continue to eat for a few hours, and stop eating a much longer time before they go to bed."

    The people practicing TRE here on MFP seem to come mostly from just one group. Some of that group wrote that the timing is irrelevant. When I observe a majority going in one direction, I become curious: Why in that direction and not the other? An answer of "stop thinking about that, it doesn't matter, it is irrelevant." doesn't make me less curious.

    This one study's hypothesis is the same thing that makes me curious. Is there, in fact, any difference? I still don't know. It's just one study, but now, when someone writes, "Stop thinking about that; it doesn't matter," I'm buoyed by the fact that some researchers are wondering the same thing I am.

    I think there’s more of a social skew towards a skipping breakfast approach. Many people find dinner to be a more social meal. At least for me, I go out to dinner with friends and almost never breakfast, even though I far prefer to eat a large breakfast and don’t care much about dinner at all. If you adopt IF as a lifestyle, it’s a much better fit to be able to have a larger dinner with family or friends.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,934 Member
    neanderthin wrote: »
    Whether you do it early or late will has no consequences if weight loss is the main goal
    chris_in_cal wrote: »
    Maybe. You might be right.

    I think there's reasonable evidence at this point that weight loss is a direct function of calorie intake. There are subtleties to it because human bodies are dynamic, not static (calories in influence calories out); and because the behavioral side of reducing calories can be quite complex, among other factors.

    The meta-analysis I linked suggest there may be benefits of early TRE during weight loss, including possibly better retention of fat-free mass (FFM). FFM does have an effect - probably small - on long-term calorie expenditure . . . tiny in direct terms, perhaps more meaningful indirectly, though the indirect effect is speculative.

    My personal opinion, worth every penny anyone here ever pays me for it, is that compliance with reduced calories is a bigger factor in practical success than the theoretical benefits of any particular eating style (in an otherwise generally healthy person) or eating timing regimen.

    In other words: Finding the personally easiest to manage method is more important than theoretical differences between methods. Still talking weight management only, BTW.
  • rileysowner
    rileysowner Posts: 8,340 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    neanderthin wrote: »
    Whether you do it early or late will has no consequences if weight loss is the main goal
    chris_in_cal wrote: »
    Maybe. You might be right.

    In other words: Finding the personally easiest to manage method is more important than theoretical differences between methods. Still talking weight management only, BTW.

    This is very true in many aspects of weight loss and maintenance. The easiest to manage method for an individual will have a higher likelihood of improving adherence to the overall eating goals leading to increased long-term success at reaching one's goals.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,934 Member
    rileysowner wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    neanderthin wrote: »
    Whether you do it early or late will has no consequences if weight loss is the main goal
    chris_in_cal wrote: »
    Maybe. You might be right.

    In other words: Finding the personally easiest to manage method is more important than theoretical differences between methods. Still talking weight management only, BTW.

    This is very true in many aspects of weight loss and maintenance. The easiest to manage method for an individual will have a higher likelihood of improving adherence to the overall eating goals leading to increased long-term success at reaching one's goals.

    Exactly my point. True for eating style, timing, exercise, food choices, and much, much more. I'm a huge fan of "don't try to make it fast, try to make it easy".
  • evileyefirefly
    evileyefirefly Posts: 322 Member
    I usually start my fast around 6pm. I go to bed around 8pm since I'm getting up around 4:30am, I will usually eat around 10:30am. I think the early/late thing is more just based on your schedule/lifestyle. Depending on the day and if I'm teleworking or not I will go to the gym in the late afternoon, (4pm or so) this may end up pushing my fast a bit to the right depending on when I get home to eat after working out but not by too much.
  • chris_in_cal
    chris_in_cal Posts: 2,627 Member
    evileyefirefly wrote: »
    I'm getting up around 4:30am, I will usually eat around 10:30am. I think the early/late thing is more just based on your schedule
    That's true. If you don't eat for six hours after you wake up, that's a late shift. The early/late is just short hand.

    Eating soon after waking up, or waking up and then wait a big chunk of time before eating. (aka early/late)
  • SafariGalNYC
    SafariGalNYC Posts: 1,679 Member
    edited July 2024
    It’s been interesting reading all the responses.

    I’ve been a late bird lately and I’ve noticed when not being on an early bird IF schedule.. my sleep is impaired.

    Wonder if anyone sees any benefits to early shift IF besides weight management?

  • quigley636
    quigley636 Posts: 2 Member
    I definitely like late shift TRE. I’ve been trying TRE for about a month and find it very easy. I usually wake around 5 to 6 am and drink a couple of cups of black coffee but don’t have an appetite for food until 10:00 or 11:00 am. Between then and 5:00 to 6:00 pm I have two meals. Morning is usually lighter. I’ll occasionally have a mid afternoon snack but nothing after dinner. I go to bed around 9:00 pm. I am tracking and have cut about 500 calories a day and I am finally seeing some weight loss at 1200 calories a day. If I eat more I just don’t lose the pounds quickly enough. I’m managing 1 to 2 lbs loss a week. I’m a 69 yo female and have been frustrated at how difficult it is to lose at this age. This eating schedule is working for me. I was tired for the first few days but I feel that my body has adjusted. I have no other diet restrictions but keep processed foods to a minimum and watch my carbs. Getting enough protein is challenging some days. I usually manage around 60 grams but should really be at 80 or 90. Any suggestions to help up that number would be helpful.
  • chris_in_cal
    chris_in_cal Posts: 2,627 Member
    quigley636 wrote: »
    I definitely like late shift TRE. I’ve been trying TRE for about a month and find it very easy.
    Good, congratulations. Yes, you and nearly all other TRE people on MFP do this too. I'm still hoping that if there is an early shift eating person here on MFP, they'll speak up.

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