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"Anything is better than being obese"?
trixsterjl31
Posts: 140 Member
in Debate Club
I've seen this idea kind of floating out there. Sometime it is said outright, some times you see it in peoples choices to cut really deep in deficits....A discussion about weight lose meds made me ponder this one. I think mostly it is true. Getting thinner makes you healthier across the board and increases lifespan. Where does it not stop though:
About 1 in 2000 die as a result of gastric bypass surgery and about 150 died over the course of the last 6 years that Ozempic was used. A very small number unless you are that number. At what point is it worth it to go these routes?
For me the answer would be when doctor says to do it or you are going to die.
About 1 in 2000 die as a result of gastric bypass surgery and about 150 died over the course of the last 6 years that Ozempic was used. A very small number unless you are that number. At what point is it worth it to go these routes?
For me the answer would be when doctor says to do it or you are going to die.
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Replies
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Uh…
There are worse things than being obese.
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MargaretYakoda wrote: »Uh…
There are worse things than being obese.
True, but from a health standpoint, being obese exacerbates most of these things4 -
I suppose some people implicitly think that, and some even say/write it. That doesn't make it accurate or sensible.
Sure, being obese generally isn't ideal, for a variety of reasons. But "anything is better than being obese" is silly nonsense. Probably being a lower weight is better than being obese, sure.
Weight management isn't the only realm - by far - where people accept increased risks, even death risks, in return for some perceived benefit. (I took multiple medications each of which kill some people, because the risk of the disease killing me was a higher risk.)
You say "About 1 in 2000 die as a result of gastric bypass surgery and about 150 died over the course of the last 6 years that Ozempic was used." That doesn't have much meaning, statistically speaking, without some context like how many premature deaths result from staying obese.
FWIW: "In a meta-analysis study of 2.88 million individuals, obesity was associated with an increase in mortality rate, with a hazard ratio of 1.18 (95% CI, 1.12–1.25)". Source: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5401682/
It's a reasonable choice to skip surgical or medication interventions for weight loss, if the goal can be achieved in other ways. But risk tolerance and importance/difficulty of the goal matter to an individual choice, too.
My choices are my responsibility. Generally, I'm not going to judge someone for their choices that don't affect me directly. I don't see why I would want to do that? (Yes, I do give people advice here sometimes to do things differently than they currently are, when I think they're jeopardizing their health or chances of success. I don't volunteer those judgements to strangers on the street, though, or even people IRL who aren't looking for advice.)3 -
@AnnPT77 As always good input. The risks from both Ozempic and Gastric bypass are exceedingly small. If it gets someone where they need to be to live a happier and longer life I'm all for it. I was just thinking of the lines of personal risk assessment. I've been asked by my doctor in the past if I want to see a specialist about gastric bypass and more recently about the success rates of wag/oz. In the end for me I know that if I really commit to change I can change. If I had to do one or the other i'd probably opt for the riskier gastric bypass. I look at it like sky diving. Once you are out of the plane you are committed, where the drugs can just be stopped. I also think that anyone that can't change behavior really needs to do a deep introspection into why. I am not judging I spent 20 years drinking regularly thinking I'll fix this issue tomorrow. I can only pray that This is the one that sticks. I've quit twice for about a year once and six months the other. Ok i'm rambling but good points above.3
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Uh…
There are worse things than being obese.
True, but from a health standpoint, being obese exacerbates most of these things
I’ve been homeless, and lived in my car.
My dad died when I was a teen and we struggled financially for years because of medical bills.
My mom was very thin because she smoked like a chimney - which eventually resulted in throat cancer, which killed her.
I’ve had an unattended miscarriage at four months.
I watched my house burn down to ashes.
I could go on.
My point stands.
There are worse things than being obese.6 -
MargaretYakoda wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Uh…
There are worse things than being obese.
True, but from a health standpoint, being obese exacerbates most of these things
I’ve been homeless, and lived in my car.
My dad died when I was a teen and we struggled financially for years because of medical bills.
My mom was very thin because she smoked like a chimney - which eventually resulted in throat cancer, which killed her.
I’ve had an unattended miscarriage at four months.
I watched my house burn down to ashes.
I could go on.
My point stands.
There are worse things than being obese.
Sorry for your issues, but my statement still stands. Obesity (as well as extreme underweight) exacerbates most health issues. Never said there aren't some things that are worse than being obese.2 -
There are a number of dueling arguments and points here.
If we are talking about risk assessment- I think it’s a personal decision to weigh the risks vs benefits. I personally would rather try diet and exercise before injections but there are people who do the Injections and find success that has evading them for whatever reason.
The title - anything is worse than being obese.. well- I do think there are things worse than being obese.. that still doesn’t negate the health implications of actually being obese or overweight.
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For years, I thought that if you drank or ate sugar substitutes, you’d die of cancer or endless other dread diseases. Avoided products containing them like the plague.
Til I started to lose weight and realized the extra weight was going to kill me or ruin my health a darn sight faster than any sugar-free soda would.
Btw, (and totally OT!) made a dual batch of muffins Friday. One completely to recipe with sugar and real butter. The other with granulated sucralose, margarine and egg whites. Obvs, the original recipe was much richer, but the tinkered-with recipe wasn’t half bad, and was probably half the calories. If anything, too sweet, but didn’t taste unnatural.
If anything, OP seems to be wrangling with the decision. Anything that gets the weight off successfully - and that also includes exercise and more informed food choices - is an improvement over the toll extra weight will eventually take.
You do what you need to do, just do it diligently and effectively.
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[quote="springlering62;c-48338607"}
If anything, OP seems to be wrangling with the decision. Anything that gets the weight off successfully - and that also includes exercise and more informed food choices - is an improvement over the toll extra weight will eventually take.
You do what you need to do, just do it diligently and effectively. [/quote]
I often post w/e is on my mind when i'm at work. I'm not really struggling with the idea of a bypass or drug atm. I'm well on my way down. Gave up beer. got a good eating system that works for me. It could be lower it could be higher. So pretty much it will carry me through with minimal adjustments as I go down.
The actual thought was more about people I see drastically cutting calories to the core and thinking that, that is going to be a fix. Or taking a medication that they will eventually have to come off.... Everyone has to decide what is going to work for them. I just wonder at the long term viability of quick fixes and decision process for nuclear options.
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Uh…
There are worse things than being obese.
True, but from a health standpoint, being obese exacerbates most of these things
I’ve been homeless, and lived in my car.
My dad died when I was a teen and we struggled financially for years because of medical bills.
My mom was very thin because she smoked like a chimney - which eventually resulted in throat cancer, which killed her.
I’ve had an unattended miscarriage at four months.
I watched my house burn down to ashes.
I could go on.
My point stands.
There are worse things than being obese.
Sorry for your issues, but my statement still stands. Obesity (as well as extreme underweight) exacerbates most health issues. Never said there aren't some things that are worse than being obese.
Please note OP header is literally “Anything is better than being obese”
That is an incredibly toxic point of view that can lead to eating disorders, and often (not always) medical issues caused by healthcare professionals dismissing every symptom as being weight related.
Is being overweight associated with negative health outcomes?
Undoubtedly.
But it’s nuanced. And there are other things that are at least as bad, or perhaps worse.
I’m not going to do a deep dive into statistics, but living in a city and breathing polluted air is pretty bad for you.
Living with an extreme level of stress is associated with a lot of health issues.
Sleep apnea can kill you. And yes, thin people have sleep apnea too.
My point is that the discussion is far too nuanced and individualistic to make a sweeping statement that there is nothing worse than being obese.3 -
trixsterjl31 wrote: »I often post w/e is on my mind when i'm at work. I'm not really struggling with the idea of a bypass or drug atm. I'm well on my way down. Gave up beer. got a good eating system that works for me. It could be lower it could be higher. So pretty much it will carry me through with minimal adjustments as I go down.
Sounds like you’re doing great! An excellent mindset, with good adjustments to your old habits.trixsterjl31 wrote: »The actual thought was more about people I see drastically cutting calories to the core and thinking that, that is going to be a fix.
100% that is never a good idea.
And it’s a constant struggle here on these forums (and other apps’ forums) to get people to see how they are potentially contributing to - at the very least- their own failure at dietary management, and possibly some severe health consequences.trixsterjl31 wrote: »Or taking a medication that they will eventually have to come off....
1) Not everyone who is prescribed GLP-1 meds is destined to stop taking them. Like other blood glucose management medications, for some people they’re likely to be on them for a very long time, perhaps even for life.
2) Taking a medication for the rest of your life is not a bad thing if the alternative is a decline in health, or death.trixsterjl31 wrote: »Everyone has to decide what is going to work for them. I just wonder at the long term viability of quick fixes and decision process for nuclear options.
I get that.
Quick fixes almost never work.
Medications are not always a “quick fix” though. Certainly not when cautiously prescribed and paired with nutritional education and advice on appropriate exercise and activities. Which is almost always the case.
(noting that there is currently a crackdown against internet quacks who specialize in “compounded oral Ozempic” and related NO OFFICE VISIT REQUIRED sketchy practices)
And, as always, every individual needs to carefully consider these decisions with their medical team, and weigh their individual options. What is right for one person may not be right for someone else who has different risk factors.
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trixsterjl31 wrote: »The actual thought was more about people I see drastically cutting calories to the core and thinking that, that is going to be a fix. Or taking a medication that they will eventually have to come off.... Everyone has to decide what is going to work for them. I just wonder at the long term viability of quick fixes and decision process for nuclear options.
Hang around these boards for a while. You’ll be horrified. Some of the posts alternately break my heart and some make me furious.
90% of the people who join expect a nuclear option to work magically. “I’m going to do keto / one meal a day / I can be successful on 800 calories a day! Join me! We’ve got this!”
And the ever popular “what food / supplement / vinegar “ is best for fat burning?
If I never hear the term “belly fat” again, I’ll be a happy woman.
Newbs act like those of us who’ve been successful are holding out the secrets of our success. When we tell them it’s simply burning more calories than we eat, their ears perk up. “Burn?” Cycle begins again. We burn, secretly effectively magically selfishly and won’t share the elixir they’re sure we’ve got.
What I really feel bad for is the youngsters so immersed and engrossed in social media, that they feel they have to look like these artificial, altered people they see or their lives are somehow less than.
I’ve reached the point I have a tough time looking at the Introduction posts, but a few intro posts filter out into other threads.
Maybe a better title would be “so much is better not being obese”, but that wouldn’t be any fun to debate, now would it?3 -
MargaretYakoda wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Uh…
There are worse things than being obese.
True, but from a health standpoint, being obese exacerbates most of these things
I’ve been homeless, and lived in my car.
My dad died when I was a teen and we struggled financially for years because of medical bills.
My mom was very thin because she smoked like a chimney - which eventually resulted in throat cancer, which killed her.
I’ve had an unattended miscarriage at four months.
I watched my house burn down to ashes.
I could go on.
My point stands.
There are worse things than being obese.
Sorry for your issues, but my statement still stands. Obesity (as well as extreme underweight) exacerbates most health issues. Never said there aren't some things that are worse than being obese.
Please note OP header is literally “Anything is better than being obese”
That is an incredibly toxic point of view that can lead to eating disorders, and often (not always) medical issues caused by healthcare professionals dismissing every symptom as being weight related.
Is being overweight associated with negative health outcomes?
Undoubtedly.
But it’s nuanced. And there are other things that are at least as bad, or perhaps worse.
I’m not going to do a deep dive into statistics, but living in a city and breathing polluted air is pretty bad for you.
Living with an extreme level of stress is associated with a lot of health issues.
Sleep apnea can kill you. And yes, thin people have sleep apnea too.
My point is that the discussion is far too nuanced and individualistic to make a sweeping statement that there is nothing worse than b eing obese.
Though it wasn't crystal clear, I read the OP mostly as meaning that people used "anything is better than being obese" as a rationale for adopting what he perceived as extreme weight loss methods . . . though he did write that he thinks it's "mostly true", if I read it correctly.
I don't share the view that gastric bypass or GLP-1 drugs are that extreme, and think "anything is better than obesity" . . . well, suggests that anyone saying that has severely limited life experience at best, or at least isn't thinking very deeply about the experiences they may have.
When something like 80% of weight loss efforts fail regardless of method, it doesn't make sense to me to pick on gastric bypass or GLP-1 drugs (or whatever) because those efforts often fail, too. With literally any method I can think of, if the person doesn't adopt permanent new habits going forward, they're going to regain. That's what usually happens, or so the statistics tell us. There are even sources that try to pick apart why/how some people do keep weight off longer term. (Example: National Weight Control Registry, http://nwcr.ws/default.htm )
Certainly, I think that in many cases extreme calorie deficits aren't a great plan, and probably are part of the history of many "I'm back" posts we so often see here. That's why I often urge people who are new and asking for tips to consider a mindset reset, to think about how to make progress easier rather than trying to make it faster.
It was a confusing post, or at least it confused me.4 -
MargaretYakoda wrote: »trixsterjl31 wrote: »I often post w/e is on my mind when i'm at work. I'm not really struggling with the idea of a bypass or drug atm. I'm well on my way down. Gave up beer. got a good eating system that works for me. It could be lower it could be higher. So pretty much it will carry me through with minimal adjustments as I go down.
Sounds like you’re doing great! An excellent mindset, with good adjustments to your old habits.trixsterjl31 wrote: »The actual thought was more about people I see drastically cutting calories to the core and thinking that, that is going to be a fix.
100% that is never a good idea.
And it’s a constant struggle here on these forums (and other apps’ forums) to get people to see how they are potentially contributing to - at the very least- their own failure at dietary management, and possibly some severe health consequences.trixsterjl31 wrote: »Or taking a medication that they will eventually have to come off....
1) Not everyone who is prescribed GLP-1 meds is destined to stop taking them. Like other blood glucose management medications, for some people they’re likely to be on them for a very long time, perhaps even for life.
2) Taking a medication for the rest of your life is not a bad thing if the alternative is a decline in health, or death.trixsterjl31 wrote: »Everyone has to decide what is going to work for them. I just wonder at the long term viability of quick fixes and decision process for nuclear options.
I get that.
Quick fixes almost never work.
Medications are not always a “quick fix” though. Certainly not when cautiously prescribed and paired with nutritional education and advice on appropriate exercise and activities. Which is almost always the case.
(noting that there is currently a crackdown against internet quacks who specialize in “compounded oral Ozempic” and related NO OFFICE VISIT REQUIRED sketchy practices)
And, as always, every individual needs to carefully consider these decisions with their medical team, and weigh their individual options. What is right for one person may not be right for someone else who has different risk factors.
I read an article by a doctor yesterday responding to “should GLPs be over the counter?” He had a very considered response that he doubted it ever would because it affects people’s blood sugars, and also because people in a hurry to lose weight (paraphrasing) would bypass slow buildup tolerance to go straight to full strength- or more, in an effort to speed things up.
I posted a pic on another thread of a weight loss doctor who entered our local scarecrow contest with a scarecrow doctor giving compounded GLP to a patient scarecrow, while a scarecrow nurse waited nearby with her Botox and something else. That’s the lowest kind of “professionals” who are attracted to this. They can print their own money. I’ve got several friends who are using compounded GLP and have made zero effort to change nutrition or exercise.
Maybe part of me is jealous. Their weight loss has been a doddle versus my logging, working out, changing eating habits. But I feel like I’ve gained far more than weight loss doing it the “hard way”.
Can you imagine if it was OTC? People would go nuts. It would be a stampede. cVS and Walgreens would have to reopen all those stores they’re closing. 😅2 -
springlering62 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »trixsterjl31 wrote: »I often post w/e is on my mind when i'm at work. I'm not really struggling with the idea of a bypass or drug atm. I'm well on my way down. Gave up beer. got a good eating system that works for me. It could be lower it could be higher. So pretty much it will carry me through with minimal adjustments as I go down.
Sounds like you’re doing great! An excellent mindset, with good adjustments to your old habits.trixsterjl31 wrote: »The actual thought was more about people I see drastically cutting calories to the core and thinking that, that is going to be a fix.
100% that is never a good idea.
And it’s a constant struggle here on these forums (and other apps’ forums) to get people to see how they are potentially contributing to - at the very least- their own failure at dietary management, and possibly some severe health consequences.trixsterjl31 wrote: »Or taking a medication that they will eventually have to come off....
1) Not everyone who is prescribed GLP-1 meds is destined to stop taking them. Like other blood glucose management medications, for some people they’re likely to be on them for a very long time, perhaps even for life.
2) Taking a medication for the rest of your life is not a bad thing if the alternative is a decline in health, or death.trixsterjl31 wrote: »Everyone has to decide what is going to work for them. I just wonder at the long term viability of quick fixes and decision process for nuclear options.
I get that.
Quick fixes almost never work.
Medications are not always a “quick fix” though. Certainly not when cautiously prescribed and paired with nutritional education and advice on appropriate exercise and activities. Which is almost always the case.
(noting that there is currently a crackdown against internet quacks who specialize in “compounded oral Ozempic” and related NO OFFICE VISIT REQUIRED sketchy practices)
And, as always, every individual needs to carefully consider these decisions with their medical team, and weigh their individual options. What is right for one person may not be right for someone else who has different risk factors.
I read an article by a doctor yesterday responding to “should GLPs be over the counter?” He had a very considered response that he doubted it ever would because it affects people’s blood sugars, and also because people in a hurry to lose weight (paraphrasing) would bypass slow buildup tolerance to go straight to full strength- or more, in an effort to speed things up.
I posted a pic on another thread of a weight loss doctor who entered our local scarecrow contest with a scarecrow doctor giving compounded GLP to a patient scarecrow, while a scarecrow nurse waited nearby with her Botox and something else. That’s the lowest kind of “professionals” who are attracted to this. They can print their own money. I’ve got several friends who are using compounded GLP and have made zero effort to change nutrition or exercise.
Maybe part of me is jealous. Their weight loss has been a doddle versus my logging, working out, changing eating habits. But I feel like I’ve gained far more than weight loss doing it the “hard way”.
Can you imagine if it was OTC? People would go nuts. It would be a stampede. cVS and Walgreens would have to reopen all those stores they’re closing. 😅
OMG over the counter GLP-1 would be an absolute healthcare disaster.
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Maybe, but there’s unprecedented demand, there’s big bucks to be made (or is there? As an OTC surely the price would drop?), the current legit and regulated supply is already badly infiltrated and tainted by fakes supported (reportedly) by the Turkish government.
There’s already a case of a “Botox party” (you can’t make this *kitten* up) in NY, where someone brought a bowl of GLP pens and they were injecting one another. It was fake, just intentionally mislabeled insulin. One died and several other hospitalized.
Those are the type of people who would abuse an OTC version in an effort to lose fast and “easy”.
I wouldn’t be surprised to start hearing about the cartels getting into it. It’s probably as much or
more of a moneymaker than cocaine, and a lot easier to cope with.
Can you imagine the political mileage to be made by cheap effective diets for all? “They” don’t want you to be thin and happy. I care. Vote for me.
My body is not a temple, however, a bed-sheet sized warning pamphlet with a new thyroid prescription was what it took to snap me to attention and finally start the weight loss process. I never took that prescription.3 -
We live in an instant gratification society. Everyone wants what they want now and they don't want to work for it or be patient. Hence Ozempic and surgeries to fix a weight issue quickly with little effort.
I lost the weight naturally through a personal commitment to be the best version of myself. It is easy to get off course if you become complacent or stop caring about yourself.
Self-love and discipline are the keys to a happy life and healthy weight...
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MargaretYakoda wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Uh…
There are worse things than being obese.
True, but from a health standpoint, being obese exacerbates most of these things
I’ve been homeless, and lived in my car.
My dad died when I was a teen and we struggled financially for years because of medical bills.
My mom was very thin because she smoked like a chimney - which eventually resulted in throat cancer, which killed her.
I’ve had an unattended miscarriage at four months.
I watched my house burn down to ashes.
I could go on.
My point stands.
There are worse things than being obese.
Sorry for your issues, but my statement still stands. Obesity (as well as extreme underweight) exacerbates most health issues. Never said there aren't some things that are worse than being obese.
Please note OP header is literally “Anything is better than being obese”
That is an incredibly toxic point of view that can lead to eating disorders, and often (not always) medical issues caused by healthcare professionals dismissing every symptom as being weight related.
Is being overweight associated with negative health outcomes?
Undoubtedly.
But it’s nuanced. And there are other things that are at least as bad, or perhaps worse.
I’m not going to do a deep dive into statistics, but living in a city and breathing polluted air is pretty bad for you.
Living with an extreme level of stress is associated with a lot of health issues.
Sleep apnea can kill you. And yes, thin people have sleep apnea too.
My point is that the discussion is far too nuanced and individualistic to make a sweeping statement that there is nothing worse than being obese.
I wasn't responding to the OP, I was responding to your comment. My comment is correct.
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Uh…
There are worse things than being obese.
True, but from a health standpoint, being obese exacerbates most of these things
I’ve been homeless, and lived in my car.
My dad died when I was a teen and we struggled financially for years because of medical bills.
My mom was very thin because she smoked like a chimney - which eventually resulted in throat cancer, which killed her.
I’ve had an unattended miscarriage at four months.
I watched my house burn down to ashes.
I could go on.
My point stands.
There are worse things than being obese.
Sorry for your issues, but my statement still stands. Obesity (as well as extreme underweight) exacerbates most health issues. Never said there aren't some things that are worse than being obese.
Please note OP header is literally “Anything is better than being obese”
That is an incredibly toxic point of view that can lead to eating disorders, and often (not always) medical issues caused by healthcare professionals dismissing every symptom as being weight related.
Is being overweight associated with negative health outcomes?
Undoubtedly.
But it’s nuanced. And there are other things that are at least as bad, or perhaps worse.
I’m not going to do a deep dive into statistics, but living in a city and breathing polluted air is pretty bad for you.
Living with an extreme level of stress is associated with a lot of health issues.
Sleep apnea can kill you. And yes, thin people have sleep apnea too.
My point is that the discussion is far too nuanced and individualistic to make a sweeping statement that there is nothing worse than being obese.
I wasn't responding to the OP, I was responding to your comment. My comment is correct.
My comment is also correct.
Even if limiting the discussion to health aspects? As a physically disabled person I can 100% assure you that there are worse things than being obese.1 -
xbowhunter wrote: »We live in an instant gratification society. Everyone wants what they want now and they don't want to work for it or be patient. Hence Ozempic and surgeries to fix a weight issue quickly with little effort.
I lost the weight naturally through a personal commitment to be the best version of myself. It is easy to get off course if you become complacent or stop caring about yourself.
Self-love and discipline are the keys to a happy life and healthy weight...
I’m happy that worked so well for you.
These GLP-1 discussions on the forums are filled with people who have tried everything and found it hard or even impossible.
It’s not about loving yourself.
There does really seem to be something else going on in people who really struggle with being more than merely overweight.1 -
MargaretYakoda wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Uh…
There are worse things than being obese.
True, but from a health standpoint, being obese exacerbates most of these things
I’ve been homeless, and lived in my car.
My dad died when I was a teen and we struggled financially for years because of medical bills.
My mom was very thin because she smoked like a chimney - which eventually resulted in throat cancer, which killed her.
I’ve had an unattended miscarriage at four months.
I watched my house burn down to ashes.
I could go on.
My point stands.
There are worse things than being obese.
Sorry for your issues, but my statement still stands. Obesity (as well as extreme underweight) exacerbates most health issues. Never said there aren't some things that are worse than being obese.
Please note OP header is literally “Anything is better than being obese”
That is an incredibly toxic point of view that can lead to eating disorders, and often (not always) medical issues caused by healthcare professionals dismissing every symptom as being weight related.
Is being overweight associated with negative health outcomes?
Undoubtedly.
But it’s nuanced. And there are other things that are at least as bad, or perhaps worse.
I’m not going to do a deep dive into statistics, but living in a city and breathing polluted air is pretty bad for you.
Living with an extreme level of stress is associated with a lot of health issues.
Sleep apnea can kill you. And yes, thin people have sleep apnea too.
My point is that the discussion is far too nuanced and individualistic to make a sweeping statement that there is nothing worse than being obese.
I wasn't responding to the OP, I was responding to your comment. My comment is correct.
My comment is also correct.
Even if limiting the discussion to health aspects? As a physically disabled person I can 100% assure you that there are worse things than being obese.
And being obese makes those issues worse. My point.2 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Uh…
There are worse things than being obese.
True, but from a health standpoint, being obese exacerbates most of these things
I’ve been homeless, and lived in my car.
My dad died when I was a teen and we struggled financially for years because of medical bills.
My mom was very thin because she smoked like a chimney - which eventually resulted in throat cancer, which killed her.
I’ve had an unattended miscarriage at four months.
I watched my house burn down to ashes.
I could go on.
My point stands.
There are worse things than being obese.
Sorry for your issues, but my statement still stands. Obesity (as well as extreme underweight) exacerbates most health issues. Never said there aren't some things that are worse than being obese.
Please note OP header is literally “Anything is better than being obese”
That is an incredibly toxic point of view that can lead to eating disorders, and often (not always) medical issues caused by healthcare professionals dismissing every symptom as being weight related.
Is being overweight associated with negative health outcomes?
Undoubtedly.
But it’s nuanced. And there are other things that are at least as bad, or perhaps worse.
I’m not going to do a deep dive into statistics, but living in a city and breathing polluted air is pretty bad for you.
Living with an extreme level of stress is associated with a lot of health issues.
Sleep apnea can kill you. And yes, thin people have sleep apnea too.
My point is that the discussion is far too nuanced and individualistic to make a sweeping statement that there is nothing worse than being obese.
I wasn't responding to the OP, I was responding to your comment. My comment is correct.
My comment is also correct.
Even if limiting the discussion to health aspects? As a physically disabled person I can 100% assure you that there are worse things than being obese.
And being obese makes those issues worse. My point.
No one is saying otherwise…
But if you want to discuss the factors that cause or make chronic illness worse?
I really don’t think it’s all about obesity. Because if it were, then skinny people would never have serious health issues.
Keep in mind that underweight people are also at higher risk for a variety of health problems.
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I really liked this article as it just focuses on the prevention of disease.
"Doctors should be encouraging all of their patients to be active and maintain a balanced diet for the benefit of their overall health (while also recognizing that factors like time, financial resources, and abilities may affect their options). And, depending on a patient’s individual factors (weight, perhaps, being one of them), those behaviors may be even more important.
But your success, self-worth, or even your health don’t just come down to the numbers on a scale. Only you and your doctor know what makes sense for you."
https://www.self.com/story/the-science-on-weight-and-health3 -
Seriously? if there's a medication that helps with losing weight and all you have to do is sign up and you can still eat ding dongs, that's a drug. The down side is like most medication when you stop taking them the effects no longer work and the ding dongs kick in fast and furious. It's the allure of minimal work along with it's effectiveness that is the euphoria that is the illusion, with the intended parties making a lot of money and it's all about shareholder value and knowing they have you by your shorts, because they know you'll blame yourself for any impending failure and you'll try and try again, it's just psychology 101 and a cocktail of food science and this doesn't apply to everyone and suspect most aren't taking these drugs for life. The need for a complete reevaluation of what constitutes your lifestyle is probably in order. imo2
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Except that is not at all how the drug works. The GLP-1 drugs removed the craving. Or at least that is what people say. It is a step above the stuff like Phentermine(sp) that removed cravings by making you think you were full. The GLP-1 supposedly help change your mindset so you are dwelling on food all the time even when your not hungry. I cant say how that works but i know that i've in the short term used drugs to help with sever depression due to personal lose. I literally stopped dwelling on not living constantly for a month and it was a big relief. It worked but I didn't really want to depend on it for my happiness. I really needed it because I couldn't function for a short time. When it was up for renewal I did not renew it. Honestly I slipped back toward depression and had to work my way back out but I had a better support system by then.neanderthin wrote: »Seriously? if there's a medication that helps with losing weight and all you have to do is sign up and you can still eat ding dongs, that's a drug.
I was going to say "if they ever come up with a drug were I can eat w/e I want i'll be first in line". The twist to that is that you really can eat whatever you want. In moderation. Serving size is hilarious some times. Twinkies only have 140 calories a cake. 280 a pack. You can work that into any eating plan even every day if you wanted. It is just a mater of would you rather have 2 twinkies or 60 strawberries. Man i want a twinkie now though. Have a good day.
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….. and the above is why major hedge funds and financial investment groups buy large amount % of stock in BOTH junk food AND weight loss injectables markets.
Have you ever looked at how many stakeholders have money in Both??
Makes sense to keep marketing to people to eat highly palatable processed snack foods and then market medication to undo the damage. They don’t have an edge unless they keep people fat and unwell.
Too many Twinkie’s = glp1 med usage. Buy now for retirement funds.
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From a health point of view Anything is better than being obese - or turning it around, the best thing you can do for your health is maintain in, or reasonably close to, healthy weight range.
I would say that statement is almost correct - it is the second best thing you can do for your health.
The first one is Don't smoke.0 -
These last few posts have been excellent!
Now. A total OT aside.
Even at peak gluttony, Twinkies and Ding Dongs held no allure.
Oatmeal pies, Swiss Rolls, Nutty Bars? A box at a time, baby. I treated oatmeal pies like giant Oreos. Try to unscrew them and eat the frosting first. I can sincerely say, nothing beats a really fresh oatmeal pie, but they so seldom were, and I wasn’t choosy.
/sugarymemories
Even if I could now, I wouldn’t. Just the treats while traveling and visitors over the past few weeks utterly wiped me out- and showed me how easy it would be to revert to form.
And in another weird OT’ness, thye brought us a foil-wrapped packet of locally made pumpernickel. It’s a regional specialty where they live. A package about the size of half a brick weighed a half kilo. It was pre sliced into thin, thin slices, crazy dense, and tasted like a cross between chocolate cake and gingerbread. I read up on it and it’s because it’s baked 20 hours at very low temps and something about the Maillard Reaction sweetens it?.
A slice apiece and into the Freezer of Forgetfulness it went.
In the off chance your Lidl or Aldi have foil wrapped pumpernickel bricks in the holiday/foreign aisle, highly recommend.
Please, return to your excellent debating now. I’ll just finish my coffee and fantasize about Oatmeal Pies.3 -
Well there is a certain population among obese individuals who do have what would be considered good health, and numbers are obviously hard to accurately tabulate but the group referred to "metabolically healthy obese" is around 10 to 20 percent. Basically there's many health issues a lot worse that being obese, just thought I'd mention that and the fact that at least with obesity it can be reversed quite effectively, which also mitigates many of the diseases that were directly associated with gaining weight to that obese designation. Exceptions are mostly from countries like India and China where there's a large population that is very unhealthy while having a BMI that would dictate a normal and acceptable weight otherwise.1
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paperpudding wrote: »From a health point of view Anything is better than being obese - or turning it around, the best thing you can do for your health is maintain in, or reasonably close to, healthy weight range.
I would say that statement is almost correct - it is the second best thing you can do for your health.
The first one is Don't smoke.
And buckle your seat belt.
And limit your alcohol consumption.
And protect yourself from the sun.
And don't get addicted to heroin.
Not sure how to rank order all these and other risks, but "anything is better than being obese" seems false.2
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