Biggest Loser comment about high calorie day??
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Starvation mode is largely a myth, particularly for the morbidly obese. Sorry, Tom Venuto.[I personally dont think starvation mode sets in as easily as many of us tend to believe..I dont think the BL contestants even get near starvation mode.
In the famous Minnesota study that started the whole theory, the people in the study were not morbidly obese. They did experience a slow down in metabolism once they had been on a starvation diet for a while (longer than a few days), but they continued to lose fat during that time. They didn't stop losing fat until their body fat got down to 5%, in fact.
Also, when they repeated the starvation studies on obese people, they found that -- compared to the non-obese -- they preferencially lost fat over muscle. The body put that fat on so it had energy stores during time of "famine" and so it used them when starvation came.
Here are some articles about it:
http://www.healthscience.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=512:are-you-in-the-starvation-mode-or-starving-for-truth&catid=102:jeff-novicks-blog&Itemid=267
http://www.weightwatchers.com/util/art/index_art.aspx?tabnum=1&art_id=35501
http://caloriecount.about.com/truth-starvation-mode-ft28742
Btw, a starvation diet is cutting back your calories to 50% or less of what your body needs. If you have a RMR of 1200 and are lightly active (as most people who exercise some, but have a desk job are), a starvation diet is eating below 800 calories on average. It's not just not eating your exercise calories.
They gain back their weight because diet & exercise alone doesn't work for the morbidly obese. They are no different than all the other people who lose massive quantities of weight and can't keep it off because of ghrelin, body set point and other physiological factors.I think they gain back just like the majority of the world..lack of will power and dedication and not stepping outside of their comfort zone once the "show" is over..
I know that goes against the entire premise of the show and what people on diets want to believe, but that's what science and clinical data shows... your chances of losing 50 lb. or more and keeping it off for 5 years or more are around 2%, probably lower.
Why should the BL contestants be able to beat those odds? It's not realistic to expect that.0 -
Regarding exercise calories and The Biggest Loser, there have been a couple of contestants on the show (Mike most notably this season) where the trainers have had to tell them to increase their eating, so there is definitely some issues with finding the right balance. That being said, I agree with many others here that these contestants don't really have to worry about going into starvation mode, even given how much they are working out.
I will admit I've not researched this, but Jillian said on one of her radio shows that the recommended loss of weight per week of 1-2 pounds is set because that is the most practical amount to recommend. Without going too low in calories (below the 1200 for women and 1600 for men marks), it is very difficult for people to create a significant calorie deficit that would allow for much more weight loss than that if they aren't working out copious amount (like those people on The Biggest Loser).
I found that fascinating. Like I said, I've not researched the validity of that statement, but it does make me wonder if so many doctors/nutritionists/etc saying that 1-2 pounds a week is a 'safe' weight loss are saying that because they don't want to assume that people will actually exercise to create a larger calorie deficit and are, in fact, basing everything on creating a calorie deficit from diet alone (and, again, creating more than 1000 calorie a day deficit through diet is incredibly difficult--and could be dangerous--for many people).
MacMadame, interesting numbers of what constitutes 'starvation mode'. Thanks for posting those! That answers alot of my questions regarding the subject.0 -
Regarding exercise calories and The Biggest Loser, there have been a couple of contestants on the show (Mike most notably this season) where the trainers have had to tell them to increase their eating, so there is definitely some issues with finding the right balance. That being said, I agree with many others here that these contestants don't really have to worry about going into starvation mode, even given how much they are working out.
I will admit I've not researched this, but Jillian said on one of her radio shows that the recommended loss of weight per week of 1-2 pounds is set because that is the most practical amount to recommend. Without going too low in calories (below the 1200 for women and 1600 for men marks), it is very difficult for people to create a significant calorie deficit that would allow for much more weight loss than that if they aren't working out copious amount (like those people on The Biggest Loser).
I found that fascinating. Like I said, I've not researched the validity of that statement, but it does make me wonder if so many doctors/nutritionists/etc saying that 1-2 pounds a week is a 'safe' weight loss are saying that because they don't want to assume that people will actually exercise to create a larger calorie deficit and are, in fact, basing everything on creating a calorie deficit from diet alone (and, again, creating more than 1000 calorie a day deficit through diet is incredibly difficult--and could be dangerous--for many people).
MacMadame, interesting numbers of what constitutes 'starvation mode'. Thanks for posting those! That answers alot of my questions regarding the subject.
That's an interesting thought. I have lost vast amounts of weight before very quickly by working out TONS and not eating much (~1000 cal/day - not sure as I wasn't counting, just guestimating). I gained the weight when I went back to my old ways, but had I kept eating healthy I wonder if the weight would have stayed off.0 -
There bodies don't go into starvation mode because they have so much Fat that their bodies are using for fuel- Per What Jillian Michaels said on her talk show-
They also workout for 6-8 hours a day
and the women on the show are eating 1400-1600 calories a day
and the men around 1800
Jillian Doesn't do the whole eat your earned calories thing like MFP-- She told a lady that just had 20lbs to lose to eat 1600 calories Forever and just workout- she never said anything about eating your exercise calories just eat this amount and workout0 -
It's interesting to watch the contestants on BL work out. The producers only show them working out hard. I seriously doubt that they can sustain that workout intensity for 6-8 hrs per day. Heck, I'm in pretty good shape with very little fat on me and I would have a hard time exercising for that many hours! I can't imagine lugging around that much weight, and having been sedentary for their entire lives, working out that much...no way!
Bamboo, thanks for starting this post. Are you biking much yet? I finally got out a few times last week, around 50 miles so far.0 -
I hate that people mis-interpret the whole exercise calorie thing.
Jillian doesn't use any different concept than we do here. she just uses different semantics.
the term "exercise calories" is just a way for people to say, stay within a certain range. don't go too far below your maintenance calories.
Obese people can afford a bigger calorie deficit because they have more energy stores and their body won't see a fuel deficit until a FAR larger deficit is realized.
Net calories are a sliding scale, people need to stop thinking black and white about the term "exercise calories". Most of us that have been on here and buy into the "exercise calorie" thing, aren't saying anything like "you follow them or you don't" we are saying, you need to give your body enough fuel to work properly. And if you are already at a calorie deficit (MFP), and then you exercise, then your deficit can become larger then you can safely handle if you don't eat back enough to stay within that acceptable fuel level.
What this means is that the higher your body fat percentage is, the bigger the deficit can be without causing harm or slowing down progress.
The reason why Jillian gave that woman a 1600 calorie deficit (I listened to that one too) was because she was a small woman (I believe she said 5' 1") and older with probable underactive thyroid and her maintenance calories was somewhere around 1700 (she didn't say this, but I did the calculations). Jillian gave her a calorie range close to 1700, which gave her room to exercise and still lose weight.
Things to remember about the biggest loser.
They are wearing a heart rate monitor all day that is being checked by doctors (specialists), they are working out for an extended period and have none of the normal stress factors of every day life. They have a built in support group of other people right there with them, they have no triggers (or very few) in the house on a daily basis (I.E. they aren't going to restaurants or have cookies lying around the ranch), and they have a trainer that see's them 2 to 3 times a week on an individual basis.
And they STILL have times where they don't lose weight (I'll reference Kristin this week). Why? Because as you lose weight and lose body fat, you need to adjust your calories and change up your routine. Even experienced trainers and dietitians have to tweak numbers every once in a while and experiment, that has been clearly referenced many times on the show.
So that all being said, can we please stop the "exercise calorie" debate. I think most who have been on here for a while get's the concept of eating enough to keep your body feeling like it isn't starving. New people see this and think there are "sides", can we just try to give them the why, and keep feelings out of it?
And for anyone confused, it's this simple, the LESS weight you have to lose the smaller your deficit can afford to be. Why? Because the body takes all fuel sources into account when adjusting the metabolic rate, if you have lots of food coming in on a regular basis, then it stores fat, if you have just enough, and your fat stores are sufficient, then it burns the food calories first, and then fat, and then (if necessary) it breaks down protein, if you aren't taking in enough food, and your fat stores are low, the body sees this as famine, and starts reducing the things that USE that fuel, which is primarily muscle, it does this by breaking down the muscle and burning it, which raises your body fat % and makes you less defined and more "jiggly", AND it slows your metabolism making it harder to lose weight.
That's about as plain as I can make it.0 -
Oh and just wanted to add, I just redid the calculations for that woman on the Jillian Michaels show.
I couldn't remember her exact numbers but I estimated on what I thought It was (correct me if you have the exact numbers)
I thought she said her numbers were:
about mid 40's
about 140 lbs
about 5' 1"
and underactive thyroid (inactive lifestyle)
and her maintenance calories came out to just above 1600, so Jillian told her to slowly raise her calories to maintenance level and use exercise to slowly lose weight and stay at a certain level for the rest of her life, which I totally and completely agree with.
THIS DOES NOT MEAN EVERYONE ON HERE WHO IS 5' 1" AND ABOUT 140 should be at 1600 maintenance, everyone is different, do your own calculations.
here is a link to a calorie calculator where you can put your own numbers in and find out where your maintenance calories should be.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/calorie-calculator/NU005980 -
I think I read somewhere that when you eat the same amount of calories everyday you can hit a sort of plateau in your weight loss and your metabolism slows down a lot. I once did I diet where I had 1 meal, 2 treats a day, nothing else, and I could eat whatever I wanted (in sensible means) I suppose that was varied from day to day and I lost a stone in a couple of weeks0
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Oh and just wanted to add, I just redid the calculations for that woman on the Jillian Michaels show.
I couldn't remember her exact numbers but I estimated on what I thought It was (correct me if you have the exact numbers)
I thought she said her numbers were:
about mid 40's
about 140 lbs
about 5' 1"
and underactive thyroid (inactive lifestyle)
and her maintenance calories came out to just above 1600, so Jillian told her to slowly raise her calories to maintenance level and use exercise to slowly lose weight and stay at a certain level for the rest of her life, which I totally and completely agree with.
THIS DOES NOT MEAN EVERYONE ON HERE WHO IS 5' 1" AND ABOUT 140 should be at 1600 maintenance, everyone is different, do your own calculations.
here is a link to a calorie calculator where you can put your own numbers in and find out where your maintenance calories should be.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/calorie-calculator/NU00598
NOPE... thats IT!You said it so I am now going on 1600 because it is written!! LOL that story could be me. I have been very very slow to lose with 1200-1400 a day and 4 days a week exercise. I am going on maintenance for a few weeks and see what happens.
But in the great words of James Brown. "I feel good!!'' nananana I know that I would yeah!
Have a good day banksy!:flowerforyou:0 -
I hate that people mis-interpret the whole exercise calorie thing.
Jillian doesn't use any different concept than we do here. she just uses different semantics.
the term "exercise calories" is just a way for people to say, stay within a certain range. don't go too far below your maintenance calories.
Obese people can afford a bigger calorie deficit because they have more energy stores and their body won't see a fuel deficit until a FAR larger deficit is realized.
Net calories are a sliding scale, people need to stop thinking black and white about the term "exercise calories". Most of us that have been on here and buy into the "exercise calorie" thing, aren't saying anything like "you follow them or you don't" we are saying, you need to give your body enough fuel to work properly. And if you are already at a calorie deficit (MFP), and then you exercise, then your deficit can become larger then you can safely handle if you don't eat back enough to stay within that acceptable fuel level.
What this means is that the higher your body fat percentage is, the bigger the deficit can be without causing harm or slowing down progress.
The reason why Jillian gave that woman a 1600 calorie deficit (I listened to that one too) was because she was a small woman (I believe she said 5' 1") and older with probable underactive thyroid and her maintenance calories was somewhere around 1700 (she didn't say this, but I did the calculations). Jillian gave her a calorie range close to 1700, which gave her room to exercise and still lose weight.
Things to remember about the biggest loser.
They are wearing a heart rate monitor all day that is being checked by doctors (specialists), they are working out for an extended period and have none of the normal stress factors of every day life. They have a built in support group of other people right there with them, they have no triggers (or very few) in the house on a daily basis (I.E. they aren't going to restaurants or have cookies lying around the ranch), and they have a trainer that see's them 2 to 3 times a week on an individual basis.
And they STILL have times where they don't lose weight (I'll reference Kristin this week). Why? Because as you lose weight and lose body fat, you need to adjust your calories and change up your routine. Even experienced trainers and dietitians have to tweak numbers every once in a while and experiment, that has been clearly referenced many times on the show.
So that all being said, can we please stop the "exercise calorie" debate. I think most who have been on here for a while get's the concept of eating enough to keep your body feeling like it isn't starving. New people see this and think there are "sides", can we just try to give them the why, and keep feelings out of it?
And for anyone confused, it's this simple, the LESS weight you have to lose the smaller your deficit can afford to be. Why? Because the body takes all fuel sources into account when adjusting the metabolic rate, if you have lots of food coming in on a regular basis, then it stores fat, if you have just enough, and your fat stores are sufficient, then it burns the food calories first, and then fat, and then (if necessary) it breaks down protein, if you aren't taking in enough food, and your fat stores are low, the body sees this as famine, and starts reducing the things that USE that fuel, which is primarily muscle, it does this by breaking down the muscle and burning it, which raises your body fat % and makes you less defined and more "jiggly", AND it slows your metabolism making it harder to lose weight.
That's about as plain as I can make it.
Well said. I dont believe for a second it will stop the 'eat your exercise cals debate'!
People, especially Americans, have been taught that you need to be on a strict diet and take a pill to lose weight. No one actually BELIEVES me when I tell them I have lost 30 pounds by eating!! They laugh, roll their eyes and say "Yeah, right!"
The way I have lost all of my weight is by changing the foods that I eat. I still eat a burger-it is just a 3-7% fat burger, 3 oz, with 1/2 of american cheese and a whole wheat bun. I really could not eat a fast food burger at this point, cuz mine are so yummy.
Thanks for always taking the time to write an informative response that is helpful!!0 -
Well said. I dont believe for a second it will stop the 'eat your exercise cals debate'!
People, especially Americans, have been taught that you need to be on a strict diet and take a pill to lose weight. No one actually BELIEVES me when I tell them I have lost 30 pounds by eating!! They laugh, roll their eyes and say "Yeah, right!"
The way I have lost all of my weight is by changing the foods that I eat. I still eat a burger-it is just a 3-7% fat burger, 3 oz, with 1/2 of american cheese and a whole wheat bun. I really could not eat a fast food burger at this point, cuz mine are so yummy.
Thanks for always taking the time to write an informative response that is helpful!!
very welcome M'lady! :bigsmile:0 -
Im glad you stated this ........I hate that people mis-interpret the whole exercise calorie thing.
Jillian doesn't use any different concept than we do here. she just uses different semantics.
the term "exercise calories" is just a way for people to say, stay within a certain range. don't go too far below your maintenance calories.0 -
[They gain back their weight because diet & exercise alone doesn't work for the morbidly obese. They are no different than all the other people who lose massive quantities of weight and can't keep it off because of ghrelin, body set point and other physiological factors.
I know that goes against the entire premise of the show and what people on diets want to believe, but that's what science and clinical data shows... your chances of losing 50 lb. or more and keeping it off for 5 years or more are around 2%, probably lower.
Why should the BL contestants be able to beat those odds? It's not realistic to expect that.
I must be an odds beater then (I don't feel like one.) I lost over 100 pounds 6 years ago and have kept it off. Granted, I went back to work last year and gained back 21 pounds, but I've lost half of it again since January 9th.
What did it take? Daily exercise (typically an hour or more) and eating my maintenance calorie allotment (1700 calories.)
I agree that those folks didn't keep the weight off because they resumed old habits again. I found out the *hard* way when I stopped exercising because I was "too tired" after a long work day. Now I know I HAVE to buck it up and find time - or my body will respond with spongy muscles and increased fat!0 -
Weight Watcher's is pretty much a program that varies your calorie intake due to having weekly points and such that you can spread out over the week as you like.
I personally think that having a higher day here and there (not going super crazy) makes your body/metabolism go "Hey, what's going on" and you see a pretty good loss.0 -
Weight Watcher's is pretty much a program that varies your calorie intake due to having weekly points and such that you can spread out over the week as you like.
I personally think that having a higher day here and there (not going super crazy) makes your body/metabolism go "Hey, what's going on" and you see a pretty good loss.0 -
The contestants on the BL might be eating their exercise calories. They have a ton of weight lose, and the weight comes off easier in the state they are in. Jillian Michaels did say that their diet isn't realistic.0
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And for anyone confused, it's this simple, the LESS weight you have to lose the smaller your deficit can afford to be. Why? Because the body takes all fuel sources into account when adjusting the metabolic rate, if you have lots of food coming in on a regular basis, then it stores fat, if you have just enough, and your fat stores are sufficient, then it burns the food calories first, and then fat, and then (if necessary) it breaks down protein, if you aren't taking in enough food, and your fat stores are low, the body sees this as famine, and starts reducing the things that USE that fuel, which is primarily muscle, it does this by breaking down the muscle and burning it, which raises your body fat % and makes you less defined and more "jiggly", AND it slows your metabolism making it harder to lose weight.
That's about as plain as I can make it.
I WUV U Banks! :smooched:
This is perfectly stated... as usual! :glasses:0 -
This makes perfect sense. :noway:
Thank you!
:flowerforyou:0 -
Oh and just wanted to add, I just redid the calculations for that woman on the Jillian Michaels show.
I couldn't remember her exact numbers but I estimated on what I thought It was (correct me if you have the exact numbers)
I thought she said her numbers were:
about mid 40's
about 140 lbs
about 5' 1"
and underactive thyroid (inactive lifestyle)
and her maintenance calories came out to just above 1600, so Jillian told her to slowly raise her calories to maintenance level and use exercise to slowly lose weight and stay at a certain level for the rest of her life, which I totally and completely agree with.
THIS DOES NOT MEAN EVERYONE ON HERE WHO IS 5' 1" AND ABOUT 140 should be at 1600 maintenance, everyone is different, do your own calculations.
here is a link to a calorie calculator where you can put your own numbers in and find out where your maintenance calories should be.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/calorie-calculator/NU00598
The lady was active and worked out regularly- but since she hit 40 years old put on those female hormone driven 10lbs- She wasn't eating enough- Jillian told her to slowly increase her calories up to 1600 and to stay at that amount of calories forever and to continue to workout-- It wasn't her thyroid that was the other caller--
She said she doesn't want anyone eating 1200 calories she said that is too little amount of calories.-0 -
Great info! Thanks everyone! :flowerforyou:0
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