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Deep Ketosis
Replies
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JenniferTucker3881 wrote: »I've been carnivore for just over a year. It resolved my anemia, but I did gain weight because I was eating more calories. I'm getting back on track now with calories though. Lots of critics with keto/carnivore diets. Do what works best for you! Good luck in April with your competition!
Thank you0 -
Milton Friedman, "The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem"One of the great mistakes is to judge policies and programs by their intentions rather than their results"
2 of my favorite quotes
Some other things to think about
The "fallacy of thinking your uniqueness" refers to the cognitive bias where someone believes their thoughts, experiences, or traits are significantly more unique or different from others than they actually are, essentially overestimating their individuality and underestimating how common their perspectives might be; it's also sometimes called the "false uniqueness effect.". AND A species-specific diet is a diet that's designed for a specific species of animal. It's the diet that an animal's body is able to consume and digest, and is necessary for the animal to thrive. " Surviving and Thriving are 2 different things. Don't have an open mind because anything can get in and plant seeds by a critical thinker.1 -
Almost 6 weeks in, I feel amazing, digestion is great, gym is great still getting great pumps. I am down 15 pds and I am eating more now. Sleeping like a rock for a solid 6-8 hours craving have been zero the last 2 weeks since I upped my fat intake. IDK but I'm going to keep going and keep pushing myself to the best me I can and learn myself along the way.2
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You can eat and you can be full, but you may still be suffering from malnutrition. Carbs are not need they are not an essential nutrient or macro. Our brain will make us eat until our needs are met, sodium, protein and fats I believe are the top nutrients it wants us to have. People on low sodium diets gain weight overtime because they will eat till there sodium needs are met, and in feed lots when they are fatting up a cow the feed is low sodium. Protein is awesome and so much BS out there about the adverse side effects from eating too much, if anything we are not eating enough. Fat is essential, ever cell is made of fat, hormones, our brains, keep it easy build your nutritional foundations starting on what is needed. I know there are other minerals, vitamins we need and when we are craving something there usually is a reason, we may misinterpret the signals or the reason, sweet cravings could be from bad gut bacteria.1
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I have done Keto several times in the past 20 yrs and loved it, responded very well to it, most of the time I have been what some people would refer to as hyper carnivore which is mostly all my foods coming from the animal kingdom, I really like the taste of meat, bacon and eggs. The last six weeks has been carnivore and lion most days and I love it too. We need challenges in our lives, we need that eustress, we need to challenge ourselves metabolically, physically and emotionally.0
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Being metabolically flexible is a good thing but doesn't mean we should flex that muscle 😁0
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Happy Monday MFP's great day to be alive. Everything still going great, every morning I look in the mirror and it seems like a little more fat disappears! This WOE is simple and easy, and fun pulling on different levers and seeing what happens. Some days I eat higher fat and some days higher protein, and I have been tracking that and also tracking my performance and how I feel inside and outside of the gym. Slightly higher fat and slightly lower protein seems to be the sweet spot. Was thinking about and probably will do some calorie cycling, 1 lower day followed by 2 days at maintenance. I am a firm believer that your weekly or monthly caloric intake has a bigger impact than your daily, Yes, I know daily adds up to your weekly and monthly intake. I think we all can agree when we talk about dieting for weight loss and we go 5 days in a row in a deficit and making strides in the right direction, one Friday or Saturday night blow out/cheat meal or whatever can sabotage and move the scale in the opposite direction we want. And sometimes that can lead to dysfunctional dieting cycles1
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Experimenting with C8 powder 😁0
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This WOE has made things easier!!!0
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Going back to the basics and just keeping everything simple frees up time to really start doing a deeper dive into nutrition, which turns into diving into the metabolism, and now has made it to looking up and reading about the mitochondria, how everything is so connected.0
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Realizing that we overestimate are own Inteligent's is the beginning of a great journey of learning.0
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Low Carb and Zero Carb athletes.
According to research by Jeff Volek, low-carb athletes can effectively replenish a significant portion of their depleted glycogen stores within 2 hours post-workout, even while maintaining a low-carb diet, due to their body's increased ability to utilize fat as fuel once keto-adapted; meaning they don't necessarily need large amounts of carbohydrates to fully restore glycogen levels like a high-carb athlete would.
Interesting read to help understand the metabolism0 -
PiPDream01 wrote: »Low Carb and Zero Carb athletes.
According to research by Jeff Volek, low-carb athletes can effectively replenish a significant portion of their depleted glycogen stores within 2 hours post-workout, even while maintaining a low-carb diet, due to their body's increased ability to utilize fat as fuel once keto-adapted; meaning they don't necessarily need large amounts of carbohydrates to fully restore glycogen levels like a high-carb athlete would.
Interesting read to help understand the metabolism
Nope, that's not the way it works.
Glycogen stores will never be full when someone is on a keto diet and if they were then the metabolic machinery would switch that person to carbs (sugar burner) and they would be using those for fuel. They will manufacture some through a process called gluconeogenesis but that's to supply glucose for any machinery that exclusively uses glucose, mostly. That process when efficiently working maxes out around 250g's of carbs per day forget about just after a workout with most going to the brain which relies heavily on glucose and red blood cells as well because they don't have any mitochondria which is where energy for the body is produced so they use glucose for that energy and yes some goes to muscle especially for high-intensity or anaerobic exercises. Full glycogen stores will need around 500 g's and gluconeogenesis might generate around 250 a day with most going to that machinery I talked about.0 -
Science for this? While HIGH BLOOD sugar isn't ideal, the statement is over reach. The body has enzymes in it to break down carbs and sugars to it's simplest form to be UTILIZED for energy and storage.PiPDream01 wrote: »sollyn23l2 wrote: »PiPDream01 wrote: »sollyn23l2 wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »If you do nothing but deep ketosis, YOU WILL lose muscle at a faster rate.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 40 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Maybe explain the science behind that, I'm sure people doing or thinking of doing the lion diet might find it interesting and not quite sure what "deep ketosis" even means, it's not a scientific term and I'm guessing @PiPDream01 picked it thinking it might describe the lion diet when comparing to say, something like keto or other carnivore variants for example as a descriptor.
What kind of science would convince you that keto hurts muscle gain?
Any, really how would it hurt muscle gain? Muscle gain is because of muscle stimulation from mechanical tension recruiting muscle fibers. There are studies that show, science studies that show the Pump actually impedes muscle hypertrophy. We have been around 2000,000 to 300,000 years and for all that we ate are animals. Also myself, I have done it and I am doing it. Looks at any study in the last 30 years and look who funded it and it supports there business products, You can studies that support drinking alcohol which is a drug, a poison. Show me a independent study like Tim Noakes has shown that shows keto interferes with muscle growth? Vince Gironda is a great example of keto and muscle building, he was the Father of Bodybuilding. In the time there wasn't rampant PEDs being used.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7911670/
Keep in mind, I don't think there's anything wrong with a ketogenic diet. It can be beneficial for metabolic health, it just may not be ideal if hypertrophy is the goal. Carbohydrates and insulin are an important part of protein synthesis, it's what helps get the protein into your cells. Without it, that may be hindered. But, every individual needs to find what works for them.
Your body releases insulin when you ingest anything the amount is based on the food being brought in, because more glucose coming in more insulin, why because glucose is damaging in the blood the body wants it out of the blood as soon as possible.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 40 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Science for this? While HIGH BLOOD sugar isn't ideal, the statement is over reach. The body has enzymes in it to break down carbs and sugars to it's simplest form to be UTILIZED for energy and storage.PiPDream01 wrote: »sollyn23l2 wrote: »PiPDream01 wrote: »sollyn23l2 wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »If you do nothing but deep ketosis, YOU WILL lose muscle at a faster rate.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 40 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Maybe explain the science behind that, I'm sure people doing or thinking of doing the lion diet might find it interesting and not quite sure what "deep ketosis" even means, it's not a scientific term and I'm guessing @PiPDream01 picked it thinking it might describe the lion diet when comparing to say, something like keto or other carnivore variants for example as a descriptor.
What kind of science would convince you that keto hurts muscle gain?
Any, really how would it hurt muscle gain? Muscle gain is because of muscle stimulation from mechanical tension recruiting muscle fibers. There are studies that show, science studies that show the Pump actually impedes muscle hypertrophy. We have been around 2000,000 to 300,000 years and for all that we ate are animals. Also myself, I have done it and I am doing it. Looks at any study in the last 30 years and look who funded it and it supports there business products, You can studies that support drinking alcohol which is a drug, a poison. Show me a independent study like Tim Noakes has shown that shows keto interferes with muscle growth? Vince Gironda is a great example of keto and muscle building, he was the Father of Bodybuilding. In the time there wasn't rampant PEDs being used.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7911670/
Keep in mind, I don't think there's anything wrong with a ketogenic diet. It can be beneficial for metabolic health, it just may not be ideal if hypertrophy is the goal. Carbohydrates and insulin are an important part of protein synthesis, it's what helps get the protein into your cells. Without it, that may be hindered. But, every individual needs to find what works for them.
Your body releases insulin when you ingest anything the amount is based on the food being brought in, because more glucose coming in more insulin, why because glucose is damaging in the blood the body wants it out of the blood as soon as possible.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 40 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Actually what the body wants to do is bring it back down to base line which also prevent hyperglycemia which is what happens when that process doesn't happen efficiently. Biochemically we don't want chronically elevated blood sugar which leads to all sorts of heath issues, this is really nutritional science 101. Maybe I'm not understanding properly what your inquiring about. What exactly are you asking?0 -
I have a different view and by learning to look at information from different angles you extract the same information but understand it differently. Maybe I'm not making myself clear, but I will explain those differences. I have read, and heard glucose is the preferred fuel because the body utilizes it first, but maybe there is a different reason why it does, maybe it is because it is inflammatory, we can live a very healthy life with being zero carb, the mitochondria is healthier without it and the very small amount of glucose the body needs it can make without bringing in any sugars and carbs are sugar plain and simple.
Just learning about mitochondria health and being a critical thinking and asking yourself question about why, if you are being open to learning it will shed light on these. I have heard we need a verity of fruits and vegetables in our diets for gut microbiomes, I have read studies that even if you don't eat that or not a verity you still have the same bacteria but just different amounts, and have you ever thought that maybe why do you need to feed them what do they add to my body making it heathier that I don't already have or get from other sources. The same when you do a deep dive into fiber, almost everything said about fiber is a contradiction of itself.0 -
It takes years to understand nutrition and scientists will spend a lifetime just trying to understand one mechanism. What your experiencing is information overload and with your limited knowledge about nutrition in general your drawing conclusion that support your ideology, basically it's confirmation bias on steroids, how do I know, because we all go through it and that includes scientists and layman like myself. Many of your points are correct but you then draw conclusions that support your idea of what your reality is as opposed to dealing with one biochemical mechanism in exhaustive detail.
What you needed to do imo was to find the science that disputed what I said in my previous post where a conversation about the minutia could have been discussed but instead you want to tell me that you think differently and bring up strawmen arguments that deal with a totally different subject matter all together. It's common but not very productive. imo.3 -
neanderthin wrote: »It takes years to understand nutrition and scientists will spend a lifetime just trying to understand one mechanism. What your experiencing is information overload and with your limited knowledge about nutrition in general your drawing conclusion that support your ideology, basically it's confirmation bias on steroids, how do I know, because we all go through it and that includes scientists and layman like myself. Many of your points are correct but you then draw conclusions that support your idea of what your reality is as opposed to dealing with one biochemical mechanism in exhaustive detail.
What you needed to do imo was to find the science that disputed what I said in my previous post where a conversation about the minutia could have been discussed but instead you want to tell me that you think differently and bring up strawmen arguments that deal with a totally different subject matter all together. It's common but not very productive, mostly for you imo.
so basically, you are drawing your conclusion about me from not even knowing me and how many years I have studied this, and using your own biased on steroids to define me, my exact point people are so intrenched in their own thoughts they cannot see past their own nose. Thank you for proving my point2 -
I draw conclusion by what is said regardless of who is saying it.meaning they don't necessarily need large amounts of carbohydrates to fully restore glycogen levels like a high-carb athlete would.
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neanderthin wrote: »I draw conclusion by what is said regardless of who is saying it.meaning they don't necessarily need large amounts of carbohydrates to fully restore glycogen levels like a high-carb athlete would.
🤦♀️0 -
PiPDream01 wrote: »Low Carb and Zero Carb athletes.
According to research by Jeff Volek, low-carb athletes can effectively replenish a significant portion of their depleted glycogen stores within 2 hours post-workout, even while maintaining a low-carb diet, due to their body's increased ability to utilize fat as fuel once keto-adapted; meaning they don't necessarily need large amounts of carbohydrates to fully restore glycogen levels like a high-carb athlete would.
Interesting read to help understand the metabolism
I think the primary concern here is the use of the word "significant". Though not an exacting science, most studies show that even with heavy carb consumption, it can still take 10-12 hours to replenish half the glycogen stores in your body after exhausting most of those stores. The same studies state up to two days to replenish glycogen to the level at before the exercise.
Being that eating carbs is the most direct and efficient pathway to glycogen replenishment, low carb diets would increase the time needed to replenish. Protein is the second most efficient method, and fats are the third.
So while a fat adapted athlete might recover quicker than one not fat adapted, the rate of recovery would still be much slower than if one simply consumed more carbs.2 -
This is just an journey for me, I have competed in races, powerlifting and BB for 30 years and I just enjoy the journey. It's fun1
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IDK but I really like this, at 48 I feel amazing1
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PiPDream01 wrote: »IDK but I really like this, at 48 I feel amazing
Seems to be the consensus of everyone trying it. I'm not carnivore but I've been keto for a dozen years and I have no desire to change that. Are you still on the lion diet?0 -
neanderthin wrote: »PiPDream01 wrote: »IDK but I really like this, at 48 I feel amazing
Seems to be the consensus of everyone trying it. I'm not carnivore but I've been keto for a dozen years and I have no desire to change that. Are you still on the lion diet?
Yes, I eat 2 to 3 pounds of beef a day and sometimes a little butter and salt and love it1 -
I can eat anything I want and that is real freedom realize you are in control; I choose to eat beef salt and some butter, and it has been really good, it's easy it's simple no thoughts about what I am going to eat. I through in a steak or ribs once in a while maybe eggs or fish if I am feeling it. I'm not locked into this. If I was at a birthday party or something and feel like something I will choose to have it or not. I'm in control not the food and as I am going along if I think some food is going to make a positive difference in my life physically and mentally, I will choose to have it.2
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It may be in covenant but doesn't matter how smart we think we are or aware of ourselves we still are an animal0
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Authority: noun
1.the power or right to give orders, make decisions, and enforce obedience.
"he had absolute authority over his subordinates"
2. a person or organization having power or control in a particular, typically political or administrative, sphere.
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Give yourself the power and do your own research, years ago when I wanted to learn more about nutrition and diet I went to a used bookstore and found Advanced Nutrition and Human Metabolism
By Timothy P CarrJack L SmithSareen and Nutritional Sciences: From Fundamentals to...
By Michelle McGuire, Kathy A. Beerman, Kathy Beerman for about $5 bucks a piece. I read them and I made notes and read them again and I found that the books actually have some contradictory information, what was stated in chapter 3 was contradicted in chapter 6 on so on. You need to do your own educating buy a book on vegetarian diet Paleo diet Mediterranean diet keto diet. You can find all this books at thrift stores or online used for a few dollars and just read them reread them with a critical thinking mind and ask questions and then dig deeper. Always found that so called experts aren't 🤔0
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