The only difference between a "clean" and "dirty" food is...

I don't think I could eat dirty and not be hungry as hell. Just sayin'

To a person doing low carb, a bowl of oatmeal is "dirty."

So you don't consider meats with cancer causing nitrates and obscene amounts of sodium dirty? It's within portion control then? Did you know eating deli meats/hot dogs, one serving per day, has shown an increased risk of colon cancer by 21-25 (varying studies)%? http://planetgreen.discovery.com/food-health/a-hot-dog-a-day-increases-your-risk-of-colorectal-cancer-by-21-percent.html

I generally agree with the idea of eating whole foods and "clean" foods. However, be careful when interpreting those studies that suggest "Eating X will increase you risk of Y cancer by Z%"! They are often observational studies based on correlations. You can find correlations in anything and controlling for all the variables is almost impossible. Personally I wouldn't eat a hot dog every day, but I also am extremely skeptical about any study that makes those sorts of claims.

That study can be disregarded because it is not published. You are right in the sense that context must be established. Even water can kill you.

There are many scientific studies. All published, where else? Pubmed.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8671549
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21685410
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2062934/
http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/10/5/439.short
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20681011
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19808637

This just shows that you're great at searching the database. Did you review the methods? Did you review the data? None of it has any relevance to the real world. None of them made clear conclusions.

I'm not disputing any of the findings. What I'm pointing out is, you lack the understanding of dosing and context and simply making poor conclusions based on them.
Simply posting studies without understanding methodology and data will not do.

You are knowledgeable no doubt, but I question your interpretations and deduction skills.

LOL. I've read them. I've read a lot of things over the years. I understand them. Why? Because I don't just read diet books, I read about chemistry, biology, physiology, kinesiology, in university text books and medical publications, just because I don't spout jargon that no one will understand here doesn't mean I lack understanding, what I'm saying comes within logical reasoning abilities.

Well great then, glad we're on the same page. Logically speaking, within context of proper amounts, we shouldn't be worried about ill effects whatsoever. That is the whole point of this thread. You didn't need to bring up studies done on cancer in the first place. Thats what many people took issue with.

And I take issue with people, nonchalantly running their mouths off about "clean" and "dirty" foods and how "moderation" is all that matters, when in fact people should be educated about "dirty" foods like deli meats etc, so they can make informed choices in regards to their daily consumption. Thanks for the discussion. Ciao.

Lol! You're not helping anyone by coming off as an alarmist. It was nice talking to you. Stay safe. Beware of the evil deli meats!

From where I am sitting and reading, there are plenty of those people on this site. There are so many people that have diaries filled with frozen foods, diet soda, candy bars, fast food, etc.............

And they think it is all good because they are within their calorie limits. There is nothing healthy about that.

Personally, I am sick of the attitude of topics such as the OP posted, it perpetuates a mindset that really needs to be changed, especially in the United States.

I am sick and tired of paying more for health insurance because people don't give a *kitten* to shop and cook properly for themselves and their family all in the name of convenience.

_______________________________________


Me! Me! I'm one of "those" people. I'll eat whatever I want, thank you. Always have. My bloodwork is PHENOMENAL. My weight is considered "normal" (although obviously I'm on here to lose some weight - I like to be thin). If I don't have time as a full-time working mother of two, wife, and graduate student to buy fresh vegetables every couple of days to COOK, it's my own business. And, it doesn't have one single thing to do with your health insurance. But thanks for your condescending opinion of it all. Oh, and my mindset is just fine, thank you.

I find it funny, when people claim to be die hard clean eaters. No processed food whatsoever. Yet they turn around and take all kinds of supplements, medicine. Where is the logic in that? The term "clean" or "dirty" has no standard definition. It varies a lot. Therefore it shouldn't be used to describe foods.

Agreed. The one that gets me every time is the protein shakes - they seem to be right outside the definition for "clean eating" for many people. I don't see how drinking a mixture of highly processed powder fits with "clean" eating.
But hey, it's a free world (for the most part) and what everyone else eats has no impact on me (except for my husband, but luckily we have a similar food philosophy).

Whey protein isn't highly processed, it's just the liquid skimmed from the top of dairy products, which is then dried. You don't have to get it with additives like artificial sweeteners, many people shop around for purer forms of unflavoured whey or even organic dairy non additive types.

Yeeeessss, I'm sure there are plainer versions, but whenever I skim discussions on the topic they mostly seem to revolve around things like "i love the XYZ super chocolate mocha double lalalala". They never sound very "clean" to me.
Any of the ones I've picked up to check out before have hideously long ingredient lists containing things I've never heard of - but it's good to know that there are some "less processed" versions, thanks for the info.

Yeah, there are a lot of great organic isolates without any fillers, they do have an "off" sort of dried milk flavour though so they are best used in smoothies where you can cover that up, LOL, hence why so many people find the flavoured ones preferable. Even better though is dried egg white powder.

Or... eggs???

I find it funny, when people claim to be die hard clean eaters. No processed food whatsoever. Yet they turn around and take all kinds of supplements, medicine. Where is the logic in that? The term "clean" or "dirty" has no standard definition. It varies a lot. Therefore it shouldn't be used to describe foods.

Agreed. The one that gets me every time is the protein shakes - they seem to be right outside the definition for "clean eating" for many people. I don't see how drinking a mixture of highly processed powder fits with "clean" eating.
But hey, it's a free world (for the most part) and what everyone else eats has no impact on me (except for my husband, but luckily we have a similar food philosophy).

Whey protein isn't highly processed, it's just the liquid skimmed from the top of dairy products, which is then dried. You don't have to get it with additives like artificial sweeteners, many people shop around for purer forms of unflavoured whey or even organic dairy non additive types.

Yeeeessss, I'm sure there are plainer versions, but whenever I skim discussions on the topic they mostly seem to revolve around things like "i love the XYZ super chocolate mocha double lalalala". They never sound very "clean" to me.
Any of the ones I've picked up to check out before have hideously long ingredient lists containing things I've never heard of - but it's good to know that there are some "less processed" versions, thanks for the info.

Yeah, there are a lot of great organic isolates without any fillers, they do have an "off" sort of dried milk flavour though so they are best used in smoothies where you can cover that up, LOL, hence why so many people find the flavoured ones preferable. Even better though is dried egg white powder.

Or... eggs???

Yea, make sure they're organic free range eggs .

I don't eat organic free range eggs. I just eat grade A Canadian eggs without any cracks in them and hope for the best.

So you don't consider meats with cancer causing nitrates and obscene amounts of sodium dirty? It's within portion control then? Did you know eating deli meats/hot dogs, one serving per day, has shown an increased risk of colon cancer by 21-25 (varying studies)%? http://planetgreen.discovery.com/food-health/a-hot-dog-a-day-increases-your-risk-of-colorectal-cancer-by-21-percent.html

I find it funny, when people claim to be die hard clean eaters. No processed food whatsoever. Yet they turn around and take all kinds of supplements, medicine. Where is the logic in that? The term "clean" or "dirty" has no standard definition. It varies a lot. Therefore it shouldn't be used to describe foods.

Agreed. The one that gets me every time is the protein shakes - they seem to be right outside the definition for "clean eating" for many people. I don't see how drinking a mixture of highly processed powder fits with "clean" eating.
But hey, it's a free world (for the most part) and what everyone else eats has no impact on me (except for my husband, but luckily we have a similar food philosophy).

Whey protein isn't highly processed, it's just the liquid skimmed from the top of dairy products, which is then dried. You don't have to get it with additives like artificial sweeteners, many people shop around for purer forms of unflavoured whey or even organic dairy non additive types.

Yeeeessss, I'm sure there are plainer versions, but whenever I skim discussions on the topic they mostly seem to revolve around things like "i love the XYZ super chocolate mocha double lalalala". They never sound very "clean" to me.
Any of the ones I've picked up to check out before have hideously long ingredient lists containing things I've never heard of - but it's good to know that there are some "less processed" versions, thanks for the info.

Yeah, there are a lot of great organic isolates without any fillers, they do have an "off" sort of dried milk flavour though so they are best used in smoothies where you can cover that up, LOL, hence why so many people find the flavoured ones preferable. Even better though is dried egg white powder.

Or... eggs???

Yea, make sure they're organic free range eggs .

I don't eat organic free range eggs. I just eat grade A Canadian eggs without any cracks in them and hope for the best.

Usually I eat eggs from my sister's farm, so I know they are organic and very free range (the chooks often break into her veggie garden and eat her fresh organic veggies.... I'm sure that's got to be good for me!).
The eggs are sometimes "dirty" though. But I wash them and then they are "clean"

(snipping all the previous quotes, it's getting wayyyy too long)
Aw!! That's cute, your very lucky to have that ability, I'd love to have my own hens one day! Soon enough I'll have an acreage and be self sustainable, one day... one day. (One can dream) I used to be a country girl, grew up on the farm, horses, cows, pigs, chickens all that jazz, but for now I'm a city girl. I miss the fresh produce/meats!

I know, "real" freerange eggs are a completely different thing to shop eggs - they are such a bright yellow colour, they almost look artificial - thanks to the greens they eat (probably sis's broccoli!)
We get broccoli and spinach and zuccini and other veggies in season too, I'm lucky!

From where I am sitting and reading, there are plenty of those people on this site. There are so many people that have diaries filled with frozen foods, diet soda, candy bars, fast food, etc.............

And they think it is all good because they are within their calorie limits. There is nothing healthy about that.

Personally, I am sick of the attitude of topics such as the OP posted, it perpetuates a mindset that really needs to be changed, especially in the United States.

I am sick and tired of paying more for health insurance because people don't give a *kitten* to shop and cook properly for themselves and their family all in the name of convenience.

. Quote is broke. ugh.

From where I am sitting and reading, there are plenty of those people on this site. There are so many people that have diaries filled with frozen foods, diet soda, candy bars, fast food, etc.............

And they think it is all good because they are within their calorie limits. There is nothing healthy about that.

Personally, I am sick of the attitude of topics such as the OP posted, it perpetuates a mindset that really needs to be changed, especially in the United States.

I am sick and tired of paying more for health insurance because people don't give a *kitten* to shop and cook properly for themselves and their family all in the name of convenience.

_______________________________________


Me! Me! I'm one of "those" people. I'll eat whatever I want, thank you. Always have. My bloodwork is PHENOMENAL. My weight is considered "normal" (although obviously I'm on here to lose some weight - I like to be thin). If I don't have time as a full-time working mother of two, wife, and graduate student to buy fresh vegetables every couple of days to COOK, it's my own business. And, it doesn't have one single thing to do with your health insurance. But thanks for your condescending opinion of it all. Oh, and my mindset is just fine, thank you.

That is a another major pet peeve of mine that people claim to be so busy that they can't feed their children properly really irks me. I find it to be excuses.

This! I gave up on processed food, artificial sweeteners, fructose, and meat. I'm dairy free (except eggs), soy-free, wheat/gluten/grain free. My BF % has dropped, my weight has dropped, my skin is acne free and glowing, my hair has grown alot and is shiny and I have plenty of energy throughout the day!

Listen I'm not one of those serious forum people who eats clean like a freak everyday of my life and lectures people. I'm just saying, you do people a disservice by saying that it's okay to eat certain types of known "dirty" foods on a regular basis that medical studies are showing to be terrible for us. You can go have your hay day, I'm not going to get my panties all tied in a wad over the stupid retorts people are making about a "Dirty" food, everyone should know.

I agree with you in a sense.

Health and body composition (ratio of fat to muscle) are not one and the same thing.

Anyone who says you must eat clean exclusively whatever that means to achieve a decent body composition or level of health is misguided. By the same token anyone who really recommends a "Twinkie" style diet as a legitimate strategy for the average dieter is equally misguided. Most people will do far better on a diet high in lean protein, fibrous veg and a few portions of fruit with some calorie dense foods (chocolate, cake etc) thrown in for good measure than a diet high in calorie dense food with only a few items of fresh food thrown into the mix.

Eggs are dairy?

Cow eggs are yummy!