Does it REALLY matter where calories come from?

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Replies

  • BondBomb
    BondBomb Posts: 1,781 Member
    I don't even know where to begin with some of these answers.
    I feel like my degrees in biochem are a total waste because the laws of biology and physiology are somehow negated by mfp.

    SMDH
  • yoovie
    yoovie Posts: 17,121 Member
    A calorie is always a calorie. It is a measurement of burning energy,

    However, some come with nutrients and minerals and things your body needs and some come with nothing. So some are 'empty calories' and some are 'healthy calories'. Ifyou fill up on empty calories- congratulations, you both checking what the rest of your numbers are for the day? how much caffeine? How many carbs? Enough protein? Enough fiber? Enough Vit D?

    Doubt it.

    So you can eat all you want- you can eat a 2000 calorie dessert and that its for the day- or you can eat smarter calories- fill up on healthy food- and give your body the nutrients and fuel that it REQUIRES to burn off the excess fat SO you can actually afford the energy it takes to lose the weight you already carry. Im not talking about fuel o make it through your workout, Im talking about things your body will use to break down fat and metabolise it while you are sleeping. Im talking about the actual loss of weight process.

    Your choice. Your war.
  • galegetsthin
    galegetsthin Posts: 1,340 Member
    ^ I agree- also- white sugar is a toxin and your body has no use for it. Read what happens to you when you drink a coke, and what happens when you eat a TBSP of white sugar.

    Your body can use white sugar and coke as an energy source. Aside from the lacking nutritional value of a coke, what does your body do with the coke when you compare it to vegetables, for example?

    Well........ it doesnt get the fiber, or vitamins, or full feeling. If you drink a coke, it is mostly sugar, which converts to energy, so you get energy from it, but it is used much faster than the carbs that you would get from a sweet potato that has fiber to slow the process down and make you feel satisfied longer, so you wind up being hungry faster. In a 1 cup serving of sweet potato - you get 180 calories, 7 g of fiber, 4 g of protein and 13 g of sugar...... in a 1 cup serving of coke, you get 100 calories, NO fiber, NO protein and 27g of sugar. Most people dont have 1 cup of soda, then you have to eat other things to get the fiber and protein, so you end up consuming MORE calories and still have to eat more food - with calories- to get the full feeling and the stuff you need.
  • melonsss
    melonsss Posts: 144 Member
    you don't want to go over sodium cause it makes you retain water and so does sugar, which will make you bloated and actually weight more even if you stay under your calorie goal. Do you track your sugar and sodium?

    Interesting...I don't track sugar really because the first 6 weeks I was always over by like noon...it was all pretty much coming from fruit so I stopped worrying about it. I try to keep an eye on my sodium but I guess I didn't pay a lot of attention last week. That could have something to do with it as well I suppose.


    I looked at your journal (sorry for the stalking). But def let up on some sodium. Sugar is hit or miss because fruit sugar isn't so bad but certain fruits should be eatten earlier in the day (like grapes). Sodium is def kep though. I know if I go over sodium by just a little I gain 3lbs....

    Why should certain fruits be eaten earlier in the day?


    Because of the sugars and how your body burns them off. Grapes have 35g of sugar for 15, which is only a serving. Plus you don't want to spike your sugar's up before bed. They also say before yoga or stuff like that that banana's are good.
    Very informative. Thank you
  • yoovie
    yoovie Posts: 17,121 Member
    ^ I agree- also- white sugar is a toxin and your body has no use for it. Read what happens to you when you drink a coke, and what happens when you eat a TBSP of white sugar.

    Your body can use white sugar and coke as an energy source. Aside from the lacking nutritional value of a coke, what does your body do with the coke when you compare it to vegetables, for example?

    Well first of all, there is so much sugar in a Coke that it would cause a severe gag reflex when you first drink it- except that they supressed it with phosphoric acid.

    Then your blood sugar spikes and this causes your liver to react quickly by trying to gather up all sugar in your system and turn it into fat as quickly as possible to reblance your chemistry.

    But then it dumps more sugar in to your system as a result of the caffeine you just absorbed- now your adenosine is blocked and you get drowsy- and the caffeine spends all its time fighting that.

    So your brain dumps a bunch of dopamine into your system- giving your pleasure center all kinds of foreplay.

    Now- all of the nutrients that are actually in Coke and that are floating around your digestive system already- like calcium, zinc, etc- are stuck to the phosphoric acid! So you pee them out- repeat- the acid in coke- sucks helpful nutrients OUT of your diestive system and causes them to leave your body when you urinate.

    Then you sugar crash, get irritated and short fused and lazy as hell, and youre dehydrated and you just pissed out all the healthy stuff you ate earlier.

    On the other hand... wait you want me to compare Coke to vegetables- would you rather I compared it to like... V8 or something- as a beverage thing- or can I just pick broccoli?
  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member
    ^ I agree- also- white sugar is a toxin and your body has no use for it. Read what happens to you when you drink a coke, and what happens when you eat a TBSP of white sugar.

    Your body can use white sugar and coke as an energy source. Aside from the lacking nutritional value of a coke, what does your body do with the coke when you compare it to vegetables, for example?

    Well........ it doesnt get the fiber, or vitamins, or full feeling. If you drink a coke, it is mostly sugar, which converts to energy, so you get energy from it, but it is used much faster than the carbs that you would get from a sweet potato that has fiber to slow the process down and make you feel satisfied longer, so you wind up being hungry faster. In a 1 cup serving of sweet potato - you get 180 calories, 7 g of fiber, 4 g of protein and 13 g of sugar...... in a 1 cup serving of coke, you get 100 calories, NO fiber, NO protein and 27g of sugar. Most people dont have 1 cup of soda, then you have to eat other things to get the fiber and protein, so you end up consuming MORE calories and still have to eat more food - with calories- to get the full feeling and the stuff you need.

    This is a pretty good answer. My point was that the implication that the coke or the sugar is a poison is simply ridiculous. There are plenty of other reasons to choose vegetables or other food sources over a coke, but it being a poison is not one of them, and it still can be utilized to some degree by your body. It just doesn't provide you with anything useful beyond the carbohydrates contribution to energy.
  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member
    ^ I agree- also- white sugar is a toxin and your body has no use for it. Read what happens to you when you drink a coke, and what happens when you eat a TBSP of white sugar.

    Your body can use white sugar and coke as an energy source. Aside from the lacking nutritional value of a coke, what does your body do with the coke when you compare it to vegetables, for example?

    Well first of all, there is so much sugar in a Coke that it would cause a severe gag reflex when you first rink it- except that they supressed it with phosphoric acid. Then your blood sugar spikes and this causes your liver to react quickly by trying to gather up all sugar in your system and turn it into fat as quickly as possible to reblance your chemistry.

    Assuming you're in a caloric deficit, the insulin spike won't really be relevant since your net fat oxidation will exceed fat storage. See here if you would like more information on this: http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319

    Now- all of the nutrients that are actually in Coke and that are floating around your digestive system already- like calcium, zinc, etc- are stuck to the phosphoric acid! So you pee them out- repeat- the acid in coke- sucks helpful nutrients OUT of your diestive system and causes them to leave your body when you urinate.
    Then you sugar crash, get irritated and short fused and lazy as hell, and youre dehydrated and you just pissed out all the healthy stuff you ate earlier.

    Do you have anything to back this up?
    On the other hand... wait you want me to compare Coke to vegetables- would you rather I compared it to like... V8 or something- as a beverage thing- or can I just pick broccoli?

    My point was simply that your body still can use the coke or the sugar for energy since it's a carbohydrate just like a vegetable is. The major, major difference between the two (aside from any tooth decay from not brushing, perhaps) is that the vegetable provides you with several other useful things that the coke doesn't.
  • white sugar is a toxin and your body has no use for it. Read what happens to you when you drink a coke, and what happens when you eat a TBSP of white sugar.

    Seriously- some people can eat whatever and they are fine... but they arent fine.

    Anyone that thinks that weight loss is as easy as playing by numbers and waiting for your winnings, needs to do more research.

    And prepare for a rocking disappointment.

    This post has so many assumptions that I don't even know where to start.

    First off, your body DOES have use for sugar. It's a form of carbohydrate and your body can use it for energy. This is absolute basic physiology. Hell, paramedics carry Glucola in their bags for diabetics who need insulin spikes. People who run marathons ingest gel-based sugar in high amounts. A lot of olympic lifters drink coke after their lifting session in order to replenish muscles so they can lift again later. Hell, I down sugary food like crazy after a 4 hour mountain bike ride. If by "toxin" you mean "amazing and makes you feel better after exercise" then yes, you're right.

    Weight loss DOES have to do with numbers. That's why the Twinkie diet and other crap weight-loss programs can work. It's thermodynamics. Is it healthy? No. Does a calorie deficit make you lose weight even when it's unhealthy? Yes.

    As long as you're not shorting yourself with micro-nutrients, you can eat whatever you want depending on your activity level, allergic reactions and tolerance levels for certain foods. When I was training for triathlons, I didn't have a day when I ate under 5,000 calories and yet I was still losing weight. I was eating pizza, ice cream, burgers, etc. I was also having blood work done constantly from my doctor and my cholesterol levels at the time were the lowest they'd seen in years. (less than 120)

    And finally, most of the research done on what happens with sugar and cola intake has two major problems:

    1) It's usually in massive amounts that aren't realistic, very similar to aspartame studies that show how dangerous it is

    and

    2) It's ingested by itself. Who sits down at the kitchen table and takes teaspoons of sugar and eats them without anything else? Mixing that sugar with protein, fat or complex carbs changes the insulin response to the whole meal.
  • sobriquet84
    sobriquet84 Posts: 607 Member
    YES!!!!! It most CERTAINLY matters where your cals come from!!!!

    I have seen so many people say "a calorie is a calorie"... this couldn't be further from the truth.

    I would most definitely attribute your frustration to your sugar intake. I have a challenge for you... for ONE WEEK, have your net carb intake be 15-30% of your source of calories. And the carbs you do have, keep them as low glycemic as possible (a good rule of thumb is to stay away from refined/processed crap, and watch your fruit intake-- focus more on vegetables). Remember, net carbs means total carbs minus fiber and anything that is unabsorbable or is absorbed at such a slow pace that it does not impact blood sugar. Sugar alcohols are an example of this. But I also recommend eating as clean as possible.
  • yoovie
    yoovie Posts: 17,121 Member
    ^ I agree- also- white sugar is a toxin and your body has no use for it. Read what happens to you when you drink a coke, and what happens when you eat a TBSP of white sugar.

    Your body can use white sugar and coke as an energy source. Aside from the lacking nutritional value of a coke, what does your body do with the coke when you compare it to vegetables, for example?

    Well first of all, there is so much sugar in a Coke that it would cause a severe gag reflex when you first rink it- except that they supressed it with phosphoric acid. Then your blood sugar spikes and this causes your liver to react quickly by trying to gather up all sugar in your system and turn it into fat as quickly as possible to reblance your chemistry.

    Assuming you're in a caloric deficit, the insulin spike won't really be relevant since your net fat oxidation will exceed fat storage. See here if you would like more information on this: http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319

    Now- all of the nutrients that are actually in Coke and that are floating around your digestive system already- like calcium, zinc, etc- are stuck to the phosphoric acid! So you pee them out- repeat- the acid in coke- sucks helpful nutrients OUT of your diestive system and causes them to leave your body when you urinate.
    Then you sugar crash, get irritated and short fused and lazy as hell, and youre dehydrated and you just pissed out all the healthy stuff you ate earlier.

    Do you have anything to back this up?
    On the other hand... wait you want me to compare Coke to vegetables- would you rather I compared it to like... V8 or something- as a beverage thing- or can I just pick broccoli?

    My point was simply that your body still can use the coke or the sugar for energy since it's a carbohydrate just like a vegetable is. The major, major difference between the two (aside from any tooth decay from not brushing, perhaps) is that the vegetable provides you with several other useful things that the coke doesn't.

    so we had the same point?

    http://www.fitnesstipsforlife.com/the-effect-of-coca-cola-on-your-body.html <~ easy source reference

    Im not saying you are wrong- Im telling you that white sugar, because it was broken down from its original structure- which included the thigs necessary tobreak it down- leaves it as a poiison- and here is why- if you really truly care and aren't being a troll.

    Raise your hand if you know how much sugar the American Heart Association recommends daily, added sugar... not naturally occuring sugar.

    5 tsp.

    FIVE TEASPOONS.

    Now, I go over that, I think. I probably have somewhere between 5 tsp and 2 tbsp of added sugar a day- between coffee and a snack, etc.

    But I want to give you a breakdown, because there are a few people that are going around offering a 'tip' that eating a cup or a half cup of sugar instead of a candy bar is so much better for you because pure sugar does not contain fat....

    PLEASE... LET ME SQUASH THE BS OUT OF THIS "TIP". (With the help of Dr William Coda Martin and William Dufty)

    FIRST: THE NUTRITIONAL FACTS...

    1 cup of sugar....
    calories 774
    carbs 200
    ZERO nutritional value.

    the challenger: Let's use a standard sized Snickers bar...

    calories 280
    fat 14 g
    sodium 140 mg
    potassium 184 mg
    carbs 35
    protein 4g
    fiber 1g
    b-12 1.5%
    b-6 2.6%
    Vitamin E 4.3%
    Copper 7.7%
    Folate 4%
    Iron 2%
    Magnesium 10%
    Manganese 10%
    Niacin 10%
    Phosphorus 11%
    RIboflavin 4.4%
    Selenium (cancer fighting!) 6.4%
    Zinc 10%
    (and other Im sure)

    NOW....

    If your point is that a cup of sugar has less already existing fat than a snickers, you are right.

    If your point is that this makes it a healthier alternative, you are whacked.

    Sugar is a food... but it is also A POISON which is why we can only have it in small doses.

    elling words!

    World English Dictionary:
    poison (ˈpɔɪz ə n)
    — n
    1. any substance that can impair function, cause structural damage, or otherwise injure the body
    2. something that destroys
    3. a substance that retards a chemical reaction or destroys or inhibits the activity of a catalyst
    — vb
    10. to retard or stop by the action of a poison
    11. to inhibit or destroy (the activity of a catalyst) by the action of a poison
    Related: toxic

    How is sugar a poison?

    Well let's see how overdosing on sugar can impair function, cause damage, injur the body, retard chemical reactions, inhibit catalysts and be overall TOXIC.

    1. It is a poison because it has been depleted of its life forces, vitamins and minerals (as I showed you above). All that's left is pure cabs that your body CANNOT USE without the proteins, vitamins and minerals that were yanked out of it.

    Every plant is supplied with all of these things because they are required for their own metabolism, without excess, a perfect balance. Without all this other stuff, these carbs turn into dangerous kinds of sugar, one kind accumulates in the brain and nervous system, anoher in red blood cells. This keeps the little red guys from getting the oxygen they need to just act normal, much less be able to get enough oxygen all over your body to exercise!!!! So... Poison #1- beginning of a degenerative disease

    Nutritionists consider refined sugar to be a "lethal substance" because it provides only empty caloriesand none of the minerals which are present in the actual plant. The parts you need to process it, have been removed.

    2. On TOP of that: the digestion of sugar robs the body of the good vitamins and minerals it DOES have JUST trying to BREAK IT DOWN TO GET RID OF IT.
    The "detoxification and elimination" of sugar wreaks havoc on your entire system.

    "So essential is balance to our bodies that we have many ways to provide against the sudden shock of a heavy intake of sugar. Minerals such as sodium (from salt), potassium and magnesium (from vegetables), and calcium (from the bones) are mobilized and used in chemical transmutation; neutral acids are produced which attempt to return the acid-alkaline balance factor of the blood to a more normal state."
    SOURCE: www.globalhealingcenter.
    com/sugar-problem/refined-
    sugar-the-sweetest-poison-of-all

    ^ remember how all those things are in a Snickers bar... mhmmmm

    Eating plain or "raw" sugar by itself leaves your body with an abundance of acid that just keeps growing and growing and effing up your fragile balance. At least when mixed or dilluted or dissolved in other foods, it has HELP being broken down. But making a habit of this means that your bodyhas to start pulling minerals from deep deep deep down inside of you to try to fix it. So its causing your body to destroy itself and lose all of its strongest structural support, just so you can soothe a pure sugar addiction. NOT NICE PEOPLE! THATS MEAN! MEAN TO YOUR BODY! VERY MEAN!

    "Excess sugar eventually affects every organ in the body. Initially, it is stored in the liver. Since the liver's capacity is limited, a daily intake of refined sugar (above the required amount of natural sugar) soon makes the liver EXPAND LIKE A BALLOON. When the liver is filled to its maximum capacity, the excess is returned to the blood in the form of fatty acids. These are taken to every part of the body and stored in the most inactive areas: THE BELLY, THE BUTTOCKS, THE BREASTS AND THE THIGHS.

    When these comparatively harmless places are completely filled, fatty acids are THEN distributed among ACTIVE ORGANS, such as the HEART AD KIDNEYS. These begin to SLOW DOWN; finally their TISSUES DEGENERATE AND TURN TO ***FAT***. The whole body is affected by their reduced ability, and ABSNORMAL BLOOD PRESSURE is created. The parasympathetic nervous system is affected; and organs governed by it, such as the small BRAIN, become INACTIVE OR PARALYZED.....Too much sugar makes one sleepy; OUR ABILIT TO CALCULATE AND REMEMBER... IS LOST."
    (same source as above)

    DONT even get me started on type 2 diabetes.

    3. Anything that causes withdrawal symptoms is obviously a poison. You might as well do drugs.

    YES IM UPSET ABOUT THIS.

    YES I THINK THAT PEOPLE WITH A POOR DIET ARE OBSESSED WITH FINDING LOOPHOLES THAT ALLOW THEM TO CONTINUE TO EAT LIKE UNSUPERVISED CHILDREN.

    YES I THINK THAT IS EMBARRASSING.

    YES I THINK WE ARE HERE BECAUSE WE ARE READY TO FACE THE UGLY TRUTH AND CHANGE OUR LIVES, NOT EXHAUST OURSELVES TRYING TO JUSTIFY WHAT WE DONT WANT TO CHANGE, NO MATTER HOW MUCH IT HURTS US.

    If you want to cook your food in butter, baby go for it.
    If you want bacon with breakfast, baby do your pig right, I know I do.
    If you want to have a Snickers bar, baby get you one, but workout later k? lol
    If you want to add sugar to your coffee, me too baby, 2 packets in my 16 ouncer, please.
    If you want to sit down and measure out a pile of sugar to crunch on, baby stop that insanity.... its poison.
  • UponThisRock
    UponThisRock Posts: 4,519 Member
    If you want to sit down and measure out a pile of sugar to crunch on, baby stop that insanity.... its poison.

    um...nobody does that
  • I like linking to journals.

    Low Carb study:
    http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/88/4/1617.short

    Maybe it's the protein instead of the lack of carbs?:
    http://www.ajcn.org/content/82/1/41.short
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0031938498000614

    Don't forget that alcohol is one of the four macronutrients, and you shouldn't leave it out of your diet entirely:
    http://eurheartj.oxfordjournals.org/content/29/2/204.abstract
  • eve7166
    eve7166 Posts: 218 Member
    I do not know where everyone is coming up that sugar doesnt make a difference..YES IT DOES... Sugar TURNS TO FAT..so in essence no you are not eating in calorie form but the sugar will eventually turn to fat if not burned off either... your body can not burn more then one thing at a time and will go for easiest burn first...

    Hence why things that are low/fat free still are BAD for you becuase of all the sugar....

    However I do not think that fruit sugars are equal to table sugar your body burns fruit sugars at a different rate.

    Anyhow thats my two cents.,... I would talk to a dietician and do more research ...
  • yoovie
    yoovie Posts: 17,121 Member
    First off, your body DOES have use for sugar.

    I didnt say fructose, I didnt say glucose, I say plain white sugar. Of COURSE there are many kinds of sugar thatyour body needs. I specified one.
    Weight loss DOES have to do with numbers. That's why the Twinkie diet and other crap weight-loss programs can work. It's thermodynamics. Is it healthy? No. Does a calorie deficit make you lose weight even when it's unhealthy? Yes.

    correct also. I said its not JUST a numbers game and you cant just play it and expect it to just be handed to you. You have to be smart and still allow a margi of error for your body taking its own time to adjust as you change your diet. If you say to yourself- Im going to burn 3500 calories today and that will guarantee that I will lose one pound- then youre just playing the numbers game.

    You aren't truly paying attention to all the science.
    As long as you're not shorting yourself with micro-nutrients, you can eat whatever you want depending on your activity level, allergic reactions and tolerance levels for certain foods. When I was training for triathlons, I didn't have a day when I ate under 5,000 calories and yet I was still losing weight. I was eating pizza, ice cream, burgers, etc. I was also having blood work done constantly from my doctor and my cholesterol levels at the time were the lowest they'd seen in years. (less than 120)

    that is incredible fortunate for you- but not every person is the same.
    And finally, most of the research done on what happens with sugar and cola intake has two major problems:

    1) It's usually in massive amounts that aren't realistic, very similar to aspartame studies that show how dangerous it is

    and

    2) It's ingested by itself. Who sits down at the kitchen table and takes teaspoons of sugar and eats them without anything else? Mixing that sugar with protein, fat or complex carbs changes the insulin response to the whole meal.

    unfortunately- I know several sick sick sick individuals that measure out a cup of sugar and eat it with a spoon after work because they think it is healthier than eating a candy bar.

    First time I heard that- I wanted to die a little.

    How can you even??? crunchcrunchcrunch

    VOMIT
  • yoovie
    yoovie Posts: 17,121 Member
    If you want to sit down and measure out a pile of sugar to crunch on, baby stop that insanity.... its poison.

    um...nobody does that

    unfortunately- yes- there are some sick individuals that are addicted to pure white sugar and I hear from them all the time- and it never ceases to shock me. Its a bit terrifying.
  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member
    I do not know where everyone is coming up that sugar doesnt make a difference..YES IT DOES... Sugar TURNS TO FAT..so in essence no you are not eating in calorie form but the sugar will eventually turn to fat if not burned off either... your body can not burn more then one thing at a time and will go for easiest burn first...


    But trying to micromanage the acute process of fat loss is silly. In a caloric deficit, fat oxidation exceeds fat storage.
    Once again:

    http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319
  • eve7166
    eve7166 Posts: 218 Member
    and if all else fails try it out for yourself and see if it makes a difference for you or not... I just went back and read some post and it seems we have a lot of people with PHDs on Nutrition in here... :) GL!
  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member


    http://www.fitnesstipsforlife.com/the-effect-of-coca-cola-on-your-body.html <~ easy source reference

    Im not saying you are wrong- Im telling you that white sugar, because it was broken down from its original structure- which included the thigs necessary tobreak it down- leaves it as a poiison- and here is why- if you really truly care and aren't being a troll.

    Blog =/= science. If you have any actual research I would say that you may have something to back up your claim that sugar is a poison.
  • yoovie
    yoovie Posts: 17,121 Member
    not sure why Im the bad guy here.

    seriously I thought we were all hoping to learn more so we could succeed here.

    The snark and negative reception of strangers here is embarassing.

    Im going to go take a shirtless pic so I can get some respect.

    Luke, darlin, the best answer is always the smartest one- and dont ever take shortcuts. Nothing worth it, has shortcuts.

    And I listed my sources - Dr William Coda Martin and William Dufty =/= a blog just because I listed them in writing.

    How else did you want me to show you- you want me to telepathically imprint their names on your brain?
  • lukeout007
    lukeout007 Posts: 1,237 Member
    not sure why Im the bad guy here.

    seriously I thought we were all hoping to learn more so we could succeed here.

    The snark and negative reception of strangers here is embarassing.

    Im going to go take a shirtless pic so I can get some respect.

    Luke, darlin, the best answer is always the smartest one- and dont ever take shortcuts. Nothing worth it, has shortcuts.

    And I listed my sources - Dr William Coda Martin and William Dufty =/= a blog just because I listed them in writing.

    How else did you want me to show you- you want me to telepathically imprint their names on your brain?

    You may be my new favorite person on here. Seriously.

    And thank you for the long and incredibly detailed response above. It does make sense and I will definitely keep watch on my sugar intake.