What will make you fatter...?

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  • songbyrdsweet
    songbyrdsweet Posts: 5,691 Member
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    No one ever talks to me on these threads.


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  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679
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    No one ever talks to me on these threads.


    alone1.jpg

    I would if I knew what you were talking about. :)
  • TitanGM
    TitanGM Posts: 1,161 Member
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    Lol... either way is the same. Extra cals go as fat either if that is carbs or fat. Is like saying which is heavier 1 pound of iron or 1 pound of cotton... Tricky question from you ;)
  • Deathangl13
    Deathangl13 Posts: 38 Member
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    Both 1,000 calories so it wouldn't matter...
  • suprfast
    suprfast Posts: 49
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    Let's assume you are currently maintaining on 2,000 calories a day 50/30/20 C/F/P and you were to overeat consistently by 1,000 calories of either pure carbs or pure fat for a month, which would make you fatter, or would there be no difference and why?

    Curious as to what people think. I've seen people state that anything over 15g of cho in a meal will be stored as fat or that fat makes you fat etc etc. So which is worse to overeat, carbs or fats or does it not matter?

    Why is your protein so low to begin with? Up that and lower the carbs. Fats might even be a tad low still.
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
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    In a healthy individual, your body will shift to oxidize whatever you're feeding it. However, obese individuals are metabolically inflexible, meaning they primarily oxidize glucose regardless of whether they're being challenged with a high-fat meal. So those FA's are stored rather than being oxidized.

    Interestingly enough in the study posted, fat oxidation did not increase significantly to the fat overfeeding, but CHO oxidation did
  • ycbrewster
    ycbrewster Posts: 5 Member
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    I'm going more with this thought process too. If you spike your sugar level, your body is going to start storing carbs as fat. It's not so much the calories you take in as much as it is the calories you take in and what you BURN...if you peak your sugar levels in essence you're changing your metabolism and burning less...so I'd say the carbs will make you fatter...
  • Kevww1982
    Kevww1982 Posts: 76
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    What weighs more a ton of bricks or a ton of feathers?
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,018 Member
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    Acg, another thing I don't understand is why fasting insulin levels were so different in lean individuals on Day 0 between CHO and Fat overfeeders. Wasn't this before the overfeeding began?

    That is a good question and isn't brought up in the study, I'll have to think why that could be.
    I'm assuming naturally lean individuals have lower and better regulated insulin levels than overweight individuals.

    If insulin has nothing to do with obesity, then why would you think that?

    And can you answer the question I am still confused about? It seems like CHO overfeeding defies the laws of physics, unless someone can help me explain the discrepancy.
    The variances in insulin sensitivity and other personal metabolic behaviours are all taken into account on the outside of the energy balance equation. It's the reason carb sensitive people eat fewer carbs like people that have diabetes, PCOS etc, not to be confused with the thought that somehow lower carbs has a metabolic advantage. I eat few carbs because it helps me regulate my eating patterns so I don't overfeed on carbs I can believe for me that lower carbs have a meaning in my weight loss goal (satiating) and it's a more natural way of eating for me now.

    But do you think insulin has anything to do with your eating patterns as it pertains to carbs? The consensus on this forum is that the majority of obese people have no problem with carbs or insulin at all, and that the number of people who do is so small that it shouldn't even be mentioned as a possibility most of the time. Do you take that stance as well?
    No, I don't think it has anything to do with insulin but has do do with a multiple of factors that create an overeating situation for any one individual. Insulin sensitivity is easily controlled with diet, but their addiction to carbs and a very poor relationship with food in general is not. Lets face it almost all dieters fail unless there's an asserted effort to completely change their lifestyle.
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679
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    In a healthy individual, your body will shift to oxidize whatever you're feeding it. However, obese individuals are metabolically inflexible, meaning they primarily oxidize glucose regardless of whether they're being challenged with a high-fat meal. So those FA's are stored rather than being oxidized.

    Interestingly enough in the study posted, fat oxidation did not increase significantly to the fat overfeeding, but CHO oxidation did

    There was no need to increase fat oxidation because there was plenty of glucose available.
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
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    Acg, another thing I don't understand is why fasting insulin levels were so different in lean individuals on Day 0 between CHO and Fat overfeeders. Wasn't this before the overfeeding began?

    That is a good question and isn't brought up in the study, I'll have to think why that could be.

    You still haven't answered my other question. Can you explain in your own words why there seems to be a contradiction between Figures 1 and 2 when looking at Table 2. True or false, the dieters gained the same amount of fat mass on both fat and CHO overfeeding? If so, how is it possible that CHO overfeeding led to higher total energy expenditure?

    False, more fat was gained witht he fat overfeeding as stated. TEF of CHO > TEF of fat
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679
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    Acg, another thing I don't understand is why fasting insulin levels were so different in lean individuals on Day 0 between CHO and Fat overfeeders. Wasn't this before the overfeeding began?

    That is a good question and isn't brought up in the study, I'll have to think why that could be.
    I'm assuming naturally lean individuals have lower and better regulated insulin levels than overweight individuals.

    If insulin has nothing to do with obesity, then why would you think that?

    And can you answer the question I am still confused about? It seems like CHO overfeeding defies the laws of physics, unless someone can help me explain the discrepancy.
    The variances in insulin sensitivity and other personal metabolic behaviours are all taken into account on the outside of the energy balance equation. It's the reason carb sensitive people eat fewer carbs like people that have diabetes, PCOS etc, not to be confused with the thought that somehow lower carbs has a metabolic advantage. I eat few carbs because it helps me regulate my eating patterns so I don't overfeed on carbs I can believe for me that lower carbs have a meaning in my weight loss goal (satiating) and it's a more natural way of eating for me now.

    But do you think insulin has anything to do with your eating patterns as it pertains to carbs? The consensus on this forum is that the majority of obese people have no problem with carbs or insulin at all, and that the number of people who do is so small that it shouldn't even be mentioned as a possibility most of the time. Do you take that stance as well?
    No, I don't think it has anything to do with insulin but has do do with a multiple of factors that create an overeating situation for any one individual. Insulin sensitivity is easily controlled with diet, but their addiction to carbs and a very poor relationship with food in general is not. Lets face it almost all dieters fail unless there's an asserted effort to completely change their lifestyle.

    My take is you can optimally control leptin and insulin on a low-carb diet, and exercise is useless when used to burn calories, but effective when used to improve insulin sensitivity. And I think the problem that still remains is food reward, where your brain wants you to cheat and eat those high-carb, low-nutritional value foods. Ultimately I think avoiding those foods makes it easy to create a caloric deficit, but trying to eat them regularly but still within moderation can lead to insulin and leptin to act in ways that will induce over-eating. Of course this is the simplified version.
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679
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    Acg, another thing I don't understand is why fasting insulin levels were so different in lean individuals on Day 0 between CHO and Fat overfeeders. Wasn't this before the overfeeding began?

    That is a good question and isn't brought up in the study, I'll have to think why that could be.

    You still haven't answered my other question. Can you explain in your own words why there seems to be a contradiction between Figures 1 and 2 when looking at Table 2. True or false, the dieters gained the same amount of fat mass on both fat and CHO overfeeding? If so, how is it possible that CHO overfeeding led to higher total energy expenditure?

    False, more fat was gained witht he fat overfeeding as stated. TEF of CHO > TEF of fat

    So why does Table 2 say the following:

    Change in fat mass from CHO: 1.48kg

    Change in fat mass from Fat: 1.51kg

    So they draw this conclusion that fat is bad because of a 0.03kg gain in the fat diet?
  • songbyrdsweet
    songbyrdsweet Posts: 5,691 Member
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    In a healthy individual, your body will shift to oxidize whatever you're feeding it. However, obese individuals are metabolically inflexible, meaning they primarily oxidize glucose regardless of whether they're being challenged with a high-fat meal. So those FA's are stored rather than being oxidized.

    Interestingly enough in the study posted, fat oxidation did not increase significantly to the fat overfeeding, but CHO oxidation did

    A friend! :D

    Ugh, I really do have to look at this study now to give any feedback. But I don't want to. So I will say....

    If they were fasted, FA oxidation will increase simply because they were fasted when the measurements were taken
    If they were fed, CHO oxidation will increase simply because they were fed etc. as above

    If they were obese, they won't see an increase in FA oxidation either way
    If they are lean, they should see an increase in the oxidation of whatever macronutrient was the primary source of calories

    If they are taking in a caloric excess, FA oxidation will be low (depending on the time of feeding) because you can't oxidize FA's at the same time you're making triglycerides
    Same thing goes for carbohydrates

    End.
  • songbyrdsweet
    songbyrdsweet Posts: 5,691 Member
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    No one ever talks to me on these threads.


    alone1.jpg

    I would if I knew what you were talking about. :)

    Haha, my area of study is very new. Hasn't filtered in to mainstream information yet. But I appreciate that! :]
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
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    Acg, another thing I don't understand is why fasting insulin levels were so different in lean individuals on Day 0 between CHO and Fat overfeeders. Wasn't this before the overfeeding began?

    That is a good question and isn't brought up in the study, I'll have to think why that could be.

    You still haven't answered my other question. Can you explain in your own words why there seems to be a contradiction between Figures 1 and 2 when looking at Table 2. True or false, the dieters gained the same amount of fat mass on both fat and CHO overfeeding? If so, how is it possible that CHO overfeeding led to higher total energy expenditure?

    False, more fat was gained witht he fat overfeeding as stated. TEF of CHO > TEF of fat

    So why does Table 2 say the following:

    Change in fat mass from CHO: 1.48kg

    Change in fat mass from Fat: 1.51kg

    So they draw this conclusion that fat is bad because of a 0.03kg gain in the fat diet?

    You're projecting, where did anyone or the study conclude fat was bad?
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,018 Member
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    but trying to eat them regularly but still within moderation can lead to insulin and leptin
    Your assuming too much with insulin and leptin.....naturally lean individuals can eat whatever they want and still stay lean.........their lifestyle is the key, not their insulin or leptin levels. I eat icecream, pasta, bread, basically all the bad carbs, but not much of them because I'm not predisposed or conditioned to overeat at those obesity levels and I eat them in moderation without thinking about it. If you or anyone else can't then of course they need to be careful.
  • songbyrdsweet
    songbyrdsweet Posts: 5,691 Member
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    Actually naturally lean individuals have a different profile of gut bacteria from naturally heavy individuals. That seems to play a larger role than anything else because the gut bacteria can influence hormone levels via the endocannabinoid system. They can do tons of other stuff as well.
  • hpsnickers1
    hpsnickers1 Posts: 2,783 Member
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    No one ever talks to me on these threads.


    alone1.jpg

    I'll talk to you! :wink:

    Lean individuals don't necessarily have better insulin sensitivity. There are thin diabetics out there (just like there are obese people that have high blood sugars but will never become diabetic - my grandma was one of them). Most of them are probably undiagnosed because doctors only seem to check blood sugars/inslin when you're obese. I'm pre-diabetic (Reactive Hypoglycemia). I have insulin resistance and I've had it my whole life - I just thought the blood sugar crash was hunger. -Yes part of that is genetic but genetics aren't destiny. There has got to be a defining mechanism. I wish I could've started life eating like a diabetic should but my parents didn't know any better. Thin offspring of diabetics have more insulin resistance than "normal" people.

    I'm fat-adapted now so eating too carbs at one time REALLY screws my body up now. My body has no use for all that glucose. My brain even prefers fat.

    I'm with you on the gut thing... I think the research being done on Leaky Gut Syndrome is going to get us somewhere - hopefully - it will depend on who does the research. Chris Kresser has discussed this before. Wouldn't it just be a hoot if we found out the pretty much every modern chronic disease is started with a "mess up" in the gut? And when the gut is messed up the brain is messed up. And other systems are messed up. I know this because I have had gut issues my entire life.

    I think it's funny how hard people try to stay bacteria-free. Sanitizers, anti-bacterial soaps, etc. There isn't enough sanitizer in world to get rid of all the "germs" on us. Bacteria rule this world and when we are all gone the bacteria will still be here.
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679
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    but trying to eat them regularly but still within moderation can lead to insulin and leptin
    Your assuming too much with insulin and leptin.....naturally lean individuals can eat whatever they want and still stay lean.........their lifestyle is the key, not their insulin or leptin levels. I eat icecream, pasta, bread, basically all the bad carbs, but not much of them because I'm not predisposed or conditioned to overeat at those obesity levels and I eat them in moderation without thinking about it. If you or anyone else can't then of course they need to be careful.

    I thought it was obvious I was only talking about people with weight problems. Naturally lean individuals will be lean regardless of their lifestyle because they are genetically blessed. Naturally lean individuals can eat ice cream, white bread, and other junk foods and they don't get fat because their body will suppress their appetite to maintain homeostasis and avoid weight gain.

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