Those of you that lift heavy and distance run
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I've never been able to do both productively for any amount of time. Back when I lived in Chicago, I used the winters to lift heavy, get stronger/bigger and eat all the Ginos East I could fit in my mouth. Around Easter I'd start running, and I'd lift as much as I could, but after a month of running my max lifts would decrease and my month 3 I could barely lift anything. Recovering from hard lifting was pretty much non existent as well. I tried several schedule variations over the years but to me running and lifting were just opposite goals that work against each other. Creatine may help you in the lifting department, but you've got a pretty brutal run/row/cardio schedule that I'm pretty sure is the Lex Luthor to your Superman workouts
Now I'm in SoCal where the weather is great but the pizza is crap so I don't get to have winter binges anymore. Sigh.....0 -
Well, just to clarify. I'm not looking to be a "bodybuilder", I just want strength. I'd probably be more inclined to competitive lifting than bodybuilding type workouts.
I have no desire to do anything incredibly fast for a half-marathon. I'd like to just finish with a modest 12min/mile pace.Nothing has helped my running (and my biking for that matter) like lifting. I lift heavy 3x week, 5 sets, 5-8 reps. I do squats, bench, pull-ups, deads and should presses each workout.
As for cardio, 5-8 miles is my comfort zone, but I'm trying to push that to 12-15 miles over the next couple of months in preparation for a few events I have this summer. I run when I can based on my kids' schedules, work, etc. I also do speed work once a week.
Could I ask what your background is in lifting and running? What kind of numbers do you put up on the big 3 and over what amount of time did you increase those from your beginning numbers?0 -
I feel better and stronger doing NROLFW 2x per week (down from 3x) . I run and do circuit training as well.I do both but it is sometimes better to get used to one first for 3 or 4 weeks then add in the other, otherwise I would take at least 2 rest days a week. Maybe one week do 3x weights and 2x running and the next week do 2x weights and 3x running.
Also, once you build up your running do only 1 long run a week.
That's kind of why I thought I would be fine -- I've been teaching spin for 8 years, so I figured that adding the lifting would be ok. I'm finding it is not the case for me. Weights knock me out like nothing I have ever done before.0 -
Well, just to clarify. I'm not looking to be a "bodybuilder", I just want strength. I'd probably be more inclined to competitive lifting than bodybuilding type workouts.
I have no desire to do anything incredibly fast for a half-marathon. I'd like to just finish with a modest 12min/mile pace.Nothing has helped my running (and my biking for that matter) like lifting. I lift heavy 3x week, 5 sets, 5-8 reps. I do squats, bench, pull-ups, deads and should presses each workout.
As for cardio, 5-8 miles is my comfort zone, but I'm trying to push that to 12-15 miles over the next couple of months in preparation for a few events I have this summer. I run when I can based on my kids' schedules, work, etc. I also do speed work once a week.
Could I ask what your background is in lifting and running? What kind of numbers do you put up on the big 3 and over what amount of time did you increase those from your beginning numbers?
Background is purely "self-developed" I don't especially like lifting, but it's hard to argue with the benefits. I've tried all the typical routines (upper/lower splits, push/pull splits, isolation lifts, compound lifts, etc). I've been doing StrongLifts for about 4 months because it's benefits are largely functional strength and with only 5 exercises I'm in and out of the gym fairly quickly (generally about 45mins).
Squats haven't increased much, but that's mostly a form thing (I've only recently started getting deep enough on my squats which required me to back off the weight a bit). Bench is slowly progressing, up about 10lbs since I started. Pull-ups I've gone form 3-4 reps per set to 6-8. Deads have progressed the most, up something like 40lbs. Shoulder presses are up ~10lbs from the start.
To be perfectly honest though, some of that "progress" isn't actually progress as much as it is just pushing myself harder than I though I could. When I first started lifting form was a problem for me, and what I thought was max effort really wasn't. As I've gotten better with my technique and gotten more accustomed to lifting I've been able to push myself harder.
The only times workouts I do with any regularity is a speed workout I do with the local triathlon club (1.1 mile run, 7.5 mile bike, 1.1mile run). Last season (before I started lifting), my splits were generally around 8:20, 22:45, 9:00. This season I'm averaging around 7:45, 21:30, 7:45. My average time this year is 2 minutes faster than my BEST time last year, and it's mostly because my legs are still strong during the second run leg.0 -
If I am marathon training and I start to go heavy, my IT band gets all F'd up. Squats are so hard on the ITB. I always end up scrapping the lifting to finish the training. When I had a running coach, he never wanted me to lift at the same time. Half marathons are a lot less hard on the body, so it might be much more possible at that distance.0
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I run a lot slower if I'm achy from running, but as long as I give myself a couple days of rest before a race, I can turn it up.0
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I was also figuring out how to handle reintroducing heavy lifting to an already cardio intense workout regime a little while ago. This is what I came up with and it's been awesome for the last month!
I think the biggest thing is that I combined my 3 lifting sessions into 2 (by the 3rd workout of the week I am just ready for rest!) and I do my easiest cardio workouts on my lifting days. This has helped me focus on my intense cardio on the other days (which I do in two sessions to get enough rest). Also, keep in mind that you'll be the most sore from lifting the first few weeks and this will hurt your cardio for a little bit but it'll level out eventually.
My workout routine now:
Monday: wrestling class then weights/strength immediately after
Tuesday: Run in the morning and Spin in the evening
Wednesday: same as Monday
Thursday: same as Tuesday
Friday: Rest up, do some yoga/stretching
Saturday: Run (short and fast)
Sunday: Run (long and slow-er)
I think I might incorporate yoga into Monday and Wednesday also and then I can do absolutely nothing on Friday.0 -
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I don't run, but I am a cyclist, paddleboarder, dancer and spin instructor. I started lifting heavy about a month ago and it is literally wiping me out; it seems I can't do both heavy lifting and intense cardio. Especially since I hit 100# on the weights, everything else is suffering - terribly. This past week I made myself take 4 consecutive days off to recover and hopefully prevent further exhaustion. I've been back on it 2 days (spin Tues and did 105# squats 95# deadlifts and a few other things yesterday. I have to teach spin again in about an hour and I can tell right now I'm going to struggle.
Prior to starting lifting I did about 13-15 hours week cardio. I was never tired. Now I'm doing 3 hours lifting and 3 hours cardio, and I'm spent.
Right now I'm trying to figure out how to keep doing everything I love, but I don't know how it can happen when I'm falling over by 6 pm.
I've posted about my fatigue on here and people have suggested I was overtraining. I am taking care to eat around 2000 calories a day and 30 % protein, so I guess they are right. Many people have said you can't push both weights and cardio hard at the same time. I think they're right.
I was really hoping there was a way to do this as well - I am a long distance runner and am usually training for a marathon - I am currently training for a marathon where I am trying to increase my speed and also trying to include more weight lifting as well - guess I am going to have to figure out a nice balance to make this work - thanks for your feedback!
Just wanted to say, be careful. Heavier weights, means more muscle - more muscle means more oxygen needed when running - you know where I am going with this regarding your marathon........ more oxygen needed means a faster heartbeat - you have 26.2 miles to run in that marathon.......0 -
Here's my training schedule:
M - Warm up, lift heavy, cool down
T - Warm up, run 5k
W - Warm up, lift heavy, cool down
R - Warm up, run 5k
F - Warm up, lift heavy, cool down
S - Run 5k
I worked with a trainer for a long time so on my lifting days, I'm doing something that he taught me or, more recently, I've incorporated the New Rules of Lifting for Women. I also do some kettlebells and circuit training.0 -
What does your training schedule look like? What kind of lifting do you do and how far are you running? Are you focusing on one of the two or trying to improve both? Do you ever running hindering your recovery time for lifting or vice versa?
I'm currently doing Practical Programming (a linear progression strength training program 3x a week) and do a modified C25K with a friend (usually on off days, but it tends to be whenever we can coordinate our schedules). I've only been doing this particular strength training program for 2 weeks now. Before that it was a squat/bench/deadlift MWF schedule. Every now and then it seems the soreness of my back and legs makes the running grueling. That usually happens when I do the running on the same day though. I'd like to do a half-marathon in December or January, but it seems like that and strength gains become counterproductive to one another. Does anyone have any experience training for both strength and running endurance at the same time?
I started lifting while training for a half marathon. I squat and deadlift about 140 lbs. currently. I didn't notice any detriment to my running. My long runs were almost always on Sundays so I made sure that the days around my long run with lifting-free. However, I only lift 2x/week. I was doing 3x/week, but my schedule was too packed to fit it all in. All that being said, hills have become much easier since I started lifting. I run 4x/week, usually my mileage is around 20-30 miles/week depending on where I am in my training.
I'm still lifting and I have a half marathon on the schedule for July and for August. Feel free to add if you'd like.
ETA: I'm not a fast runner. I usually average about 10-11 min/mile pace0 -
I tried this route, here's my feedback. I'm a runner, who lifts.
I consider "Long distance" running to be 25+ miles per week, with weekly long runs of 90 minutes or more.
I consider "heavy lifting" to be 3-5 reps x 3-5 sets. Max effort, with longer breaks between sets.
For a few months, I dabbled in both running and lifting (4 days per week of each) -
Squats of 225lb (sets)
Deadlifts of 300lb (sets)
Bench 175 -200lbs (sets)
My average 10 mile pace (not race), is around 7:45 -8:00mm.
My take - the two events are not compatible. They are opposing forces.
1. The heavy lifting fatigues the legs enough to compromise your run, and your body is always in 'recovery' mode.
2. Lifting hits the fast-twitch muscles, where LDR hits the slow-twitch muscles. No real benefit.
3. You will certainly get stronger, and if in a calorie surplus, risk building more muscle, which only serves to work against you on the run.
After I run my marathon in 10 days, I'm going back to regular lifting, except I'll be upping my reps around 12-15, but still where I'm hitting failure. Your body will produce lactic acids at the higher rep range, which helps the running.
That is my take on it.0 -
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I'm training for my first half. I follow a program that looks something like this.
Mon: 1 mile as fast as I can + lifting (I do a full body workout, but try to change it up every 6 weeks or so)
Tues: 3-4 miles
Wed: off
Thurs: 1 fast mile + weights OR 6 miles, depending on what I feel like
Fri: off
Sat: long run (right now I'm at 9 or 10 miles)
Sun: off
Good luck!0 -
I tried this route, here's my feedback. I'm a runner, who lifts.
I consider "Long distance" running to be 25+ miles per week, with weekly long runs of 90 minutes or more.
I consider "heavy lifting" to be 3-5 reps x 3-5 sets. Max effort, with longer breaks between sets.
For a few months, I dabbled in both running and lifting (4 days per week of each) -
Squats of 225lb (sets)
Deadlifts of 300lb (sets)
Bench 175 -200lbs (sets)
My average 10 mile pace (not race), is around 7:45 -8:00mm.
My take - the two events are not compatible. They are opposing forces.
1. The heavy lifting fatigues the legs enough to compromise your run, and your body is always in 'recovery' mode.
2. Lifting hits the fast-twitch muscles, where LDR hits the slow-twitch muscles. No real benefit.
3. You will certainly get stronger, and if in a calorie surplus, risk building more muscle, which only serves to work against you on the run.
After I run my marathon in 10 days, I'm going back to regular lifting, except I'll be upping my reps around 12-15, but still where I'm hitting failure. Your body will produce lactic acids at the higher rep range, which helps the running.
That is my take on it.
Most helpful post on heavy lifting and long distance running. Thank you!0 -
This is a fantastic question...I've been lifting and am going to start the NRFL program Monday.....I plan to continue with my current schedule.
M, W, F 2.5-4 miles runs followed by core in the ams. Evening lifting.
Tues & Thur yoga/swimming.
Not sure if I am going to continue giving myself active rest days on weekend to fully recover. I'm gonna go back and read all the answers and see if I'm on the right track.0 -
Hmm, well I did it and was pretty successful during my last half. I think I lift pretty heavy, DL 185, Squat 140, press 75. I weigh 110. My last half was 10 minutes better (2:11) than the half before that. So, IDK.... I felt like I got faster once I started lifting heavy, since the lifting was the major change from one half to the other, (besides diet).
Here was my schedule at the time
Monday, am- crossfit; pm- cycle 1 hour
Tuesday am- hills or tempo run or repeats
Wednesday am- crossfit; pm BRICK, (bike 1 hour, 20-30 minute run- tempo)
Thursday am - medium long run
Friday am- crossfit; pm- hour+ run easy pace.
Saturday OFF
Sunday- Long run
Planning on a similar schedule as I head into another marathon season.
Obviously, this is just my schedule. It's a little nuts I understand that. I'm just pointing out that it's possible to make progress in both areas. I mean how do we really know if we are getting the FULL effect of any one thing all the time. If you are doing things you love and getting stronger and running longer and most importantly setting goals and accomplishing them, you're doing good. Right?
Edited to add: I completely agree that they are opposing forces. Which is why I think it's important to do both if that makes sense. I lost a lot of muscle running endurance WITHOUT lifting. I think it's helpful to do both to hopefully at least maintain.0 -
I'm not much of a runner, but I've done a couple 5K's. In the winter I was toying with the idea that this would be the summer that I did a 10K, half, then Marathon in the Fall. As I was thinking about that I'd started New Rules and I LOVE IT SO MUCH.
Then, in late December, I was offered top join a group doing the Tough Mudder. I decided to focus on that for May first and defer the possibility of serious distance running goals til after I make it through Tough Mudder.
TM is a heavy strength event, even though it is nearly as long as a half marathon. My focus/obsession has been on doing New Rules and getting stronger. It has exhausted me and I really do need the rest days as recommended in the book. My running practice has suffered. However, I did a 5K for charity with a friend and actually PR'd my 5K. So who knows. What I know is that while doing New Rules, *I* don't have it in me to do a proper running plan for a proper distance race. And, my fear is that I won't have the gas to run in the event. But I think I will.
I love lifting, and strength is reasonably my goal right now. I'm not sure how I'd set up my training plans if/when distance and speed become my goal. I know I won't have a time when I don't lift at all, though. It's nice to not get over-use injury.0 -
Hmm, well I did it and was pretty successful during my last half. I think I lift pretty heavy, DL 185, Squat 140, press 75. I weigh 110. My last half was 10 minutes better (2:11) than the half before that. So, IDK.... I felt like I got faster once I started lifting heavy, since the lifting was the major change from one half to the other, (besides diet).
Here was my schedule at the time
Monday, am- crossfit; pm- cycle 1 hour
Tuesday am- hills or tempo run or repeats
Wednesday am- crossfit; pm BRICK, (bike 1 hour, 20-30 minute run- tempo)
Thursday am - medium long run
Friday am- crossfit; pm- hour+ run easy pace.
Saturday OFF
Sunday- Long run
Planning on a similar schedule as I head into another marathon season.
Obviously, this is just my schedule. It's a little nuts I understand that. I'm just pointing out that it's possible to make progress in both areas. I mean how do we really know if we are getting the FULL effect of any one thing all the time. If you are doing things you love and getting stronger and running longer and most importantly setting goals and accomplishing them, you're doing good. Right?
Edited to add: I completely agree that they are opposing forces. Which is why I think it's important to do both if that makes sense. I lost a lot of muscle running endurance WITHOUT lifting. I think it's helpful to do both to hopefully at least maintain.
Strength training is definitely crucial for strong running, but I believe the emphasis here is on "heavy" lifting, as in powerlifting (very heavy weight from 3-5 reps). From what I understand Crossfit is NOT powerlifting, but quite the opposite... higher reps and faster paced. Actually, from everything I've read, Crossfit is probably one of the better forms of strength training for Long Distance Runners. (Basing my reply on the schedule you listed).
I've considered getting into a Crossfit group, but I live no where near any.0
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