Ketone Bodies, the Brain, and Cancer - Low Carb
DB_1106
Posts: 154 Member
Another low carb myth I see flying around all the time is that our brains need carbohydrates to survive.
Let's discuss.
We have a terrific system of fuel for periods of fasting or low carbohydrate eating - our body and brain can readily shift from burning glucose to burning what are called ketone bodies.
It is true that some parts of some brain cells can only burn glucose, but fortunately our bodies can turn protein into glucose through a process known as gluconeogenesis. This fact means that while there are essential requirements for both fat or protein (meaning we would die without eating at least some fat and at least some protein), we can live quite happily while consuming no carbohydrates at all. That's not saying there aren't some disadvantages or side effects to a so-called "zero carb" diet, but it won't cause the massive health problems and death that consuming zero fat or zero protein would.
After getting into the state of ketosis, the brain can use up to 75% of it's total energy requirements from ketone bodies.
Also, while the brain's own neurons thrive on ketone bodies, cancer cells are not equipped for a ketogenic environment. They do not have the mechanisms for breaking ketone bodies into usable fuel. To divide and grow, cancer cells need sugar. Without sugar, they fail to grow and divide, or they die off. As sugar is a carbohydrate and the ketogenic diet restricts carbohydrates, the ketogenic diet makes it difficult for cancer cells to function. A sugar free diet that does not limit the intake of carbohydrates and protein does not have the same effect on cancer cells, as both carbohydrates and protein can be converted into sugar. Fat, on the other hand, can only be converted into small amounts of sugar when the body breaks down a small component of fat called glycerol.
The first clinical trial testing of a ketogenic diet was conducted in Germany in 2007. The German hospital continues to recommend the diet for cancer patients with advanced cancer. In the initial trial, some patients died before the end of the trial, others went off the diet because of the prohibition of sweets. But all five patients who lasted till the end of the diet had positive outcomes. The cancer growth had either slowed down or stopped completely. In a couple of patients, the tumors shrunk. The doctors at the hospital continue to have very positive results in the treatment of advanced cancer.
Let's discuss.
We have a terrific system of fuel for periods of fasting or low carbohydrate eating - our body and brain can readily shift from burning glucose to burning what are called ketone bodies.
It is true that some parts of some brain cells can only burn glucose, but fortunately our bodies can turn protein into glucose through a process known as gluconeogenesis. This fact means that while there are essential requirements for both fat or protein (meaning we would die without eating at least some fat and at least some protein), we can live quite happily while consuming no carbohydrates at all. That's not saying there aren't some disadvantages or side effects to a so-called "zero carb" diet, but it won't cause the massive health problems and death that consuming zero fat or zero protein would.
After getting into the state of ketosis, the brain can use up to 75% of it's total energy requirements from ketone bodies.
Also, while the brain's own neurons thrive on ketone bodies, cancer cells are not equipped for a ketogenic environment. They do not have the mechanisms for breaking ketone bodies into usable fuel. To divide and grow, cancer cells need sugar. Without sugar, they fail to grow and divide, or they die off. As sugar is a carbohydrate and the ketogenic diet restricts carbohydrates, the ketogenic diet makes it difficult for cancer cells to function. A sugar free diet that does not limit the intake of carbohydrates and protein does not have the same effect on cancer cells, as both carbohydrates and protein can be converted into sugar. Fat, on the other hand, can only be converted into small amounts of sugar when the body breaks down a small component of fat called glycerol.
The first clinical trial testing of a ketogenic diet was conducted in Germany in 2007. The German hospital continues to recommend the diet for cancer patients with advanced cancer. In the initial trial, some patients died before the end of the trial, others went off the diet because of the prohibition of sweets. But all five patients who lasted till the end of the diet had positive outcomes. The cancer growth had either slowed down or stopped completely. In a couple of patients, the tumors shrunk. The doctors at the hospital continue to have very positive results in the treatment of advanced cancer.
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Was this an official study? I would definitely like to read more!0
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You're on a crusade, aren't you? Second thread on evil carbs from you today. Do you have some repressed childhood memories of being force fed carbs by your mother?
Cutting out whole food groups deprives the body of necessary nutrition. No food group is bad for you.
What is bad is eating too much of any food. Very simply: Eat less, move more and you will lose weight in a healthy way. You don't have to cut out anything.0 -
I am assuming this is the study in Germany that you are referring to?
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1662484,00.html
Slightly related, fasting (in which the body would be burning ketones) can reduce the side effects of chemotherapy:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2815756/0 -
Another low carb myth I see flying around all the time is that our brains need carbohydrates to survive.
It is true that some parts of some brain cells can only burn glucose, but fortunately our bodies can turn protein into glucose through a process known as gluconeogenesis.
So what is glucose?0 -
I am not an expert, far from it, on diet and nutrition, but I am not convined that we don't need carbs.
The food made by humans, for humans, is 37% carbs. Sure it's lactose, but it's not carb free. It would seem that the human body is designed to eat a balance.0 -
Cutting out whole food groups deprives the body of necessary nutrition.
I agree - so wouldn't vegetarians/vegans be malnourished??
Also, carbs are a macronutrient, not a food group. I still eat veggies and some fruit, which contain carbs.0 -
I am low carb and now cured of diabetes because of it.
And I am training for a triathlon, so all the people who say you have no energy on a low carb diet are crazy or doing something wrong.0 -
I am not an expert, far from it, on diet and nutrition, but I am not convined that we don't need carbs.
The food made by humans, for humans, is 37% carbs. Sure it's lactose, but it's not carb free. It would seem that the human body is designed to eat a balance.
Yes, but you are talking about people like me whose body does not properly handle carbs. Would you feed peanuts to someone allergic to them? I have to be very selective about what I eat to keep my body running properly. Plus, the backup fuel source for the body is ketones. It is an extremely natural process.0 -
The March 2012 issue of Harper's magazine had an in-depth article about this that cited clinical studies. It is available online but only if you have a subscription.
See also:
http://www.webmd.com/cancer/news/20080331/fasting_may_improve_cancer_chemotherapy0 -
Thanks for posting this information! I've been sharing information like this with people I know (including cancer patients) for several years. Cancer cells need sugar to survive. I've never claimed low-carb eating was a "cure-all", but I've been a firm believer for years now that a low-carb diet can be an important part of cancer prevention and recovery.
I know one woman with advanced stage cancer with a very poor 5-year survival rate. She is alive and well after 7 1/2 years and has been following a low-carb eating plan since she was diagnosed...so far with no sign of recurrence or further spread of her original cancer.0 -
Cutting out whole food groups deprives the body of necessary nutrition. No food group is bad for you.
I'm only here to play devil's advocate, I'm not against carbs.
But when you say that grain is a "food group", you're referring to a fabricated classification of food that humans created to describe a modern diet. You could make a statement that lab-created sugar substitutes are a "food group".0 -
You're on a crusade, aren't you? Second thread on evil carbs from you today. Do you have some repressed childhood memories of being force fed carbs by your mother?
Cutting out whole food groups deprives the body of necessary nutrition. No food group is bad for you.
What is bad is eating too much of any food. Very simply: Eat less, move more and you will lose weight in a healthy way. You don't have to cut out anything.
I absolutely agree with you. I think low-carb diets are foolish. But if this can be an effective method to treat cancer, I think I could probably support it. I mean after all, the logic behind chemo is to kill the cancer by filling the body with poison. How much more harmful can a keto diet be?0 -
I am not an expert, far from it, on diet and nutrition, but I am not convined that we don't need carbs.
The food made by humans, for humans, is 37% carbs. Sure it's lactose, but it's not carb free. It would seem that the human body is designed to eat a balance.
Yes, but you are talking about people like me whose body does not properly handle carbs. Would you feed peanuts to someone allergic to them? I have to be very selective about what I eat to keep my body running properly. Plus, the backup fuel source for the body is ketones. It is an extremely natural process.
Yes, you and all the people with PA out there.0 -
Thanks for posting this information! I've been sharing information like this with people I know (including cancer patients) for several years. Cancer cells need sugar to survive. I've never claimed low-carb eating was a "cure-all", but I've been a firm believer for years now that a low-carb diet can be an important part of cancer prevention and recovery.
I know one woman with advanced stage cancer with a very poor 5-year survival rate. She is alive and well after 7 1/2 years and has been following a low-carb eating plan since she was diagnosed...so far with no sign of recurrence or further spread of her original cancer.
Correlation does not equal causation.
My friend just beat breast cancer. She adopted a vegan diet, with a healthy amount of carbohydrate.
I think she'd probably give chemo, radiation and surgery credit for her continued remission.0 -
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Thanks for posting this information! I've been sharing information like this with people I know (including cancer patients) for several years. Cancer cells need sugar to survive. I've never claimed low-carb eating was a "cure-all", but I've been a firm believer for years now that a low-carb diet can be an important part of cancer prevention and recovery.
I know one woman with advanced stage cancer with a very poor 5-year survival rate. She is alive and well after 7 1/2 years and has been following a low-carb eating plan since she was diagnosed...so far with no sign of recurrence or further spread of her original cancer.
Correlation does not equal causation.
My friend just beat breast cancer. She adopted a vegan diet, with a healthy amount of carbohydrate.
I think she'd probably give chemo, radiation and surgery credit for her continued remission.
I didn't say she beat cancer because of it actually...just said that her doctors believed it played an important role in her recovery - from surgery, chemo, etc. Her health is better now than it was for years prior to her diagnosis. She was skeptical of the diet at first, but soon became a believer or she wouldn't have followed it for this many years.
But you know...to each his own. I'm more than fine with closed-minded people NOT trying a dietary change if they are diagnosed with advanced cancer. I mean...it might help, but do we really care if they die prematurely because they were too busy being self-righteous to try something new (and non-toxic)? I don't.0 -
Another low carb myth I see flying around all the time is that our brains need carbohydrates to survive.
It is true that some parts of some brain cells can only burn glucose, but fortunately our bodies can turn protein into glucose through a process known as gluconeogenesis.
So what is glucose?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucose
Here you go, read away.0 -
the human body looks better when you consume carbohydrates.. muscle glycogen.0
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Another low carb myth I see flying around all the time is that our brains need carbohydrates to survive.
It is true that some parts of some brain cells can only burn glucose, but fortunately our bodies can turn protein into glucose through a process known as gluconeogenesis.
So what is glucose?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucose
Here you go, read away.
Is it a carbohydrate or not?0 -
the human body looks better when you consume carbohydrates.. muscle glycogen.
That is up for debate, but that is not what we are really discussing here.
I am strictly talking about the effects of no carbs and how the brain still processes and works.0 -
So, let's assume that the low-carb diet is helping people beat cancer (I am not saying it is true or untrue). Different cancers react to different things in the body, some are fueled by hormones, and some do seem to grow much quicker in a high-sugar environment. Again, assuming the diet is really helping those people with advanced cancer, doesn't mean that it is a change I should make to my lifestyle. After all, chemo, radiation and other drugs are helping them too. That doesn't make it right for me right now.
There are plenty of people who really do need to restrict their carb intake. Again, just because a low-carb diet is essential to someone with PCOS, diabetes, or any number of metabolic issues, doesn't mean that it is right for everyone to switch to a low carb diet.
I did a lower carb diet several years ago. The fat was melting off of my body. I got pregnant and had to add the carbs back into my diet. I was horribly ill for several months. Does that mean the diet was good or bad for me? No. That doesn't prove one thing either way.
Low carb isn't going to be sufficient for everyone, high carb isn't going to be sufficient for everyone. Tell me what is working for you, not that you have found the magic, one and only way that people should eat. That one and only way doesn't exist.0 -
Another low carb myth I see flying around all the time is that our brains need carbohydrates to survive.
It is true that some parts of some brain cells can only burn glucose, but fortunately our bodies can turn protein into glucose through a process known as gluconeogenesis.
So what is glucose?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucose
Here you go, read away.
Is it a carbohydrate or not?
It's the most common carbohydrate.0 -
Another low carb myth I see flying around all the time is that our brains need carbohydrates to survive.
It is true that some parts of some brain cells can only burn glucose, but fortunately our bodies can turn protein into glucose through a process known as gluconeogenesis.
So what is glucose?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucose
Here you go, read away.
Is it a carbohydrate or not?
It's the most common carbohydrate.
So you say the brain doesn't need carbs but then say parts of it require carbs to function, so does the brain need carbs or not?0 -
yeh the science is there i agree with you i used to low carb.. but if you diet and workout for aesthetics you need the carbohydrates. there is no metabolic advantage when you low carb. the more bodyweight you hold from glycogen the more calories you burn as well.the human body looks better when you consume carbohydrates.. muscle glycogen.
That is up for debate, but that is not what we are really discussing here.
I am strictly talking about the effects of no carbs and how the brain still processes and works.0 -
the human body looks better when you consume carbohydrates.. muscle glycogen.
Yes, you wear your glycogen well. :drinker:0 -
Again ACG, I am not playing a gotcha word game with you. You know damn well what I mean, and if you don't then I really overestimated your intelligence to even discuss anything with you. So if you want to really discuss this, then let's discuss it, but if you are going to twist words and play gotcha games, I'm not interested.0
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Again ACG, I am not playing a gotcha word game with you. You know damn well what I mean, and if you don't then I really overestimated your intelligence to even discuss anything with you. So if you want to really discuss this, then let's discuss it, but if you are going to twist words and play gotcha games, I'm not interested.
I didn't twist any words, I only went by what you posted. So you stated glucose was a carbohydrate and that parts of the brain need glucose, which would seem to go against your first statement that you don't need carbs for the brain.0 -
Again ACG, I am not playing a gotcha word game with you. You know damn well what I mean, and if you don't then I really overestimated your intelligence to even discuss anything with you. So if you want to really discuss this, then let's discuss it, but if you are going to twist words and play gotcha games, I'm not interested.
I didn't twist any words, I only went by what you posted. So you stated glucose was a carbohydrate and that parts of the brain need glucose, which would seem to go against your first statement that you don't need carbs for the brain.
But if you read further what I wrote you would have read that the brain can use up to 75% of it's energy from ketone bodies and the rest from glucose that is converted from protein.
Maybe I should have clarified, but I figured you knew (which I know you do), but I should have said glucose is sugar. You caught me in the word game - you win. Can we discuss the facts though?0 -
bump :happy:0
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