Thoughts on Pro-Anorexia Diets
bipolaroutloud
Posts: 20
It makes me sad seeing all these young ladies doing pro-anorexia diets. You're only hurting yourselves. If you're feeling this low about your body, you don't need a diet, you need a psychiatrist. The ONLY way to really lose weight, stay healthy and keep it off is to adopt a healthy nutrition plan and get regular exercise. These are not quick fixes you can make, they are life changes. You need calories for your brain, muscles, and cells to survive and anything less than around 1200 calories a day is starvation. These kind of diets kill people. Please please please lose weight the smart way. Lean muscle and nutrition is the key to weight loss. I'm a personal trainer and I know the human body very well. Anorexia is not simply a physical illness but a mental one that should be taken just as serious as any other illness.
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It makes me sad seeing all these young ladies doing pro-anorexia diets. You're only hurting yourselves. If you're feeling this low about your body, you don't need a diet, you need a psychiatrist. The ONLY way to really lose weight, stay healthy and keep it off is to adopt a healthy nutrition plan and get regular exercise. These are not quick fixes you can make, they are life changes. You need calories for your brain, muscles, and cells to survive and anything less than around 1200 calories a day is starvation. These kind of diets kill people. Please please please lose weight the smart way. Lean muscle and nutrition is the key to weight loss. I'm a personal trainer and I know the human body very well. Anorexia is not simply a physical illness but a mental one that should be taken just as serious as any other illness.
nice post, i think a lot of people on here could do with reading it.
Some do it intentionally, but a lot eat 1200 and then exercise most of it off without eating back the cals, which is pretty much the same result!0 -
You need calories for your brain, muscles, and cells to survive and anything less than around 1200 calories a day is starvation.
Can you define "starvation" please, as used in this sentence.
I am not in favour of anorexia or extreme diets, but I am even less in favour of junk science.0 -
People get into a vicious cycle and the outdated dieting beliefs are to blame. You're always told to eat less and move more, but sometimes that really isn't the answer. They get to the point where they start to lose their lean mass rapidly, and their BMR falls accordingly, so to keep losing weight they cut their intake and exercise even more, which leads to more lean mass loss and their BMR falls accordingly, so to keep losing weight they cut their intake and exercise even more, which leads to more lean mass loss and their BMR falls accordingly, so to keep losing weight they cut their intake and exercise even more, which leads to more lean mass loss and their BMR falls accordingly, so to keep losing weight they cut their intake and exercise even more, which leads to more lean mass loss and their BMR falls accordingly, so to keep losing weight they cut their intake and exercise even more, which leads to more lean mass loss and their BMR falls accordingly, so to keep losing weight they cut their intake and exercise even more, which leads to more lean mass loss and their BMR falls accordingly, so to keep losing weight they cut their intake and exercise even more, which leads to more lean mass loss and their BMR falls accordingly...you get the idea.
Deprivation over an extended period of time is starvation. Starvation doesn't have to mean the complete absense of food. 1200 calories a day is okay for very very few people - not the masses of people here alone eating that little.You need calories for your brain, muscles, and cells to survive and anything less than around 1200 calories a day is starvation.
Can you define "starvation" please, as used in this sentence.
I am not in favour of anorexia or extreme diets, but I am even less in favour of junk science.0 -
Deprivation over an extended period of time is starvation.
so that moves the target to "deprivation" - how are you defining that ? eating less than the rate that got us fat in first place ?0 -
Eating less than is necessary to preserve the mass of your organs, bones and muscles.Deprivation over an extended period of time is starvation.
so that moves the target to "deprivation" - how are you defining that ? eating less than the rate that got us fat in first place ?0 -
OP I agree, there are so many people on here that are just not trying to lose weight in a healthy way. It's disturbing.0
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Eating less than is necessary to preserve the mass of your organs, bones and muscles.
Presumably the number of calories involved is only one factor in this, as with enough protein (and possibly resistance training) the mass preservation can be achieved at varying calorie levels.0 -
By extension, calories carry the nutrients you need. I doubt resistance training does much for the preservation of your liver, kidneys etc but granted it can certainly help preserve muscle mass along with sufficient protein intake.Eating less than is necessary to preserve the mass of your organs, bones and muscles.
Presumably the number of calories involved is only one factor in this, as with enough protein (and possibly resistance training) the mass preservation can be achieved at varying calorie levels.0 -
By extension, calories carry the nutrients you need.
So if we get all the nutrients and enough protein in (say) 600 calories we're neither in starvation nor deprivation, as defined thus far.0 -
I feel your pain, sadly I've had to defriend a few who were eating less than 800 calories but burning up to 1000 a day. I tried to advise this was unhealthy and got a load of abuse from the girls and their pro-ana friends.
I hope they realise this kind of diet is not sustainable before it has a negative impact on their body that can take years to recover from.
"Food is fuel"/"your body is a machine"/"feed your workouts" are all very cliche but I still think they carry an important message. xxx0 -
Yarwell we have enough threads on starvation I don't think your comment was appropriate when discussing pro-anorexia diet.0
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I'm on 1200 calories a day and I eat most of my exercise calories - to be honest I'm pretty sedentary on the days I don't do exercise so the 1200 more than fills me - and my food is all healthy. I have seen some SHOCKING food diaries on here, people getting praise for eating 600-700 calories, and it's made up of complete crap like fast food, soda, chocolate - how is that good??!! I saw someone complain about hair loss, with a food diary of 1-2 items, and then get praised for losing .5lbs??!! That should not be allowed in my humble opinion, there should be something that prevents you from completing your food diary unless you hit your minimum.
The only thing I'd love to know about the 1200=starvation is this: I used weightwatchers to lose my first 30+lbs. I've added up my food diaries on here and converted them to points - and sometimes I'm over my "daily points" limit on 1200. I don't use their system anymore because I found it unsustainable.
I'm not arguing or picking a fight here, I'm just genuinely interested as to why it and its counterparts are such successful programs when they are allowed to advocate that.0 -
This site is detrimental to those with EDs. It's a pity some use it for a purpose other than what it was designed for.0
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Yarwell we have enough threads on starvation I don't think your comment was appropriate when discussing pro-anorexia diet.
shame.
Merely requesting a definition of the terms used, makes it easier to follow a discussion I find.0 -
I'm just genuinely interested as to why it and its counterparts are such successful programs when they are allowed to advocate that.
Weight Watchers does well in part because of the group support in its classes. May be less relevant now with online support but has been shown to give better results.
I suspect if you follow their system as intended it's low or zero risk, but it would be easy to use "points" in an inappropriate way.0 -
wrong topic... my mistake lol0
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You need calories for your brain, muscles, and cells to survive and anything less than around 1200 calories a day is starvation.
Can you define "starvation" please, as used in this sentence.
I am not in favour of anorexia or extreme diets, but I am even less in favour of junk science.
That would be something defined a bit like this :
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11430776
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19660148
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20054213
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17260010
Not seeing results that are predicted based on the assumption that your metabolism follows the norm for your weight as it decreases. Nice thread hijacking though...
A lot of the "starvation", or whatever you want to call it, were done with ED patients before they studied it's effect on fat people on diets, so it's in fact pretty relevant. Metabolic damage and other health issues related with massive caloric deficit from ED have been shown and not challenged in recent studies, as far as I know. The question of whether it translates to dieting the wrong way is the debate, though the body of evidence as a whole seems to point that it affects dieters too
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It makes me sad seeing all these young ladies doing pro-anorexia diets. You're only hurting yourselves. If you're feeling this low about your body, you don't need a diet, you need a psychiatrist. The ONLY way to really lose weight, stay healthy and keep it off is to adopt a healthy nutrition plan and get regular exercise. These are not quick fixes you can make, they are life changes. You need calories for your brain, muscles, and cells to survive and anything less than around 1200 calories a day is starvation. These kind of diets kill people. Please please please lose weight the smart way. Lean muscle and nutrition is the key to weight loss. I'm a personal trainer and I know the human body very well. Anorexia is not simply a physical illness but a mental one that should be taken just as serious as any other illness.
I used to be like that and it led to me developing an eating disorder, anorexia nervosa.
It's true, diets such as the ABC Diet and the Skinny Girl Diet are horrible- they lead to so many problems, the first of which being EDs. You don't NEED a psychiatrist, but it's recommended, because then you'll get the help you need, like I did.
Eating so much calories may seem frightening, trust me I know, but it's the only way to be healthy, along with regular exercise.
Skinny isn't beautiful; it's deadly.
So chin up lovelies.0 -
The only thing I'd love to know about the 1200=starvation is this: I used weightwatchers to lose my first 30+lbs. I've added up my food diaries on here and converted them to points - and sometimes I'm over my "daily points" limit on 1200. I don't use their system anymore because I found it unsustainable.
I used to use a points based diet as well Scottish Slimmers. I was allowed 45 "checks" per day, each check amounted to 25 calories - thats only 1125 calories. On top of that you were allowed 2 pieces of fruit, unlimited veg and a calcium allowance all of which amounted to approx 200 cals plus veggies and I found that unsustainable and far too limiting! I supposed these things work for some and not for others. Personally I am on 1500 NET cals per day and even then I am still hungry sometimes and go over a bit and am still losing weight (allbeit slowly!).0 -
That would be something defined a bit like this
Well the first one doesn't even contain the word "starvation" so I won't be looking any further. I'm familiar with metabolic rate reduction in response to reduced calorie intake, it's a few hundred calories at most.
However I don't know what the "Pro-Anorexia diet" referred to in the OP is ? and we've converged on a definition of starvation / deprivation as losing organ, bone or muscle mass.0 -
I had a friend request yesterday.. I looked and read her status' and threads. I was completely shocked to see she was a young girl (18) living at home asking others advise on fasting and how she could hide a 10day fast from her parents! The replies consisted of taking an apple to the room where her parents were, taking a bite, then going back to the kitchen and spitting it out. She and others seemed to be in competition on how few cals they could survive on and her diary was no more than 400 cals a day.
I also saw others who had tried to help her and had to defriend her as she was not listening to any of their advise. After this I thought , as a fitness website the 'owners' need to hold some responsibility here to help this young girl. If only there was a help button others could press where MFP can offer support.
so yes it is a great site for those who wish to be healthy/ fit / wanting to lose weight / build muscle /
but can be very dangerous for those with eating disorders..............0 -
I'm just genuinely interested as to why it and its counterparts are such successful programs when they are allowed to advocate that.
Weight Watchers does well in part because of the group support in its classes. May be less relevant now with online support but has been shown to give better results.
I suspect if you follow their system as intended it's low or zero risk, but it would be easy to use "points" in an inappropriate way.
It's definitely easy to use the points inappropriately, I have heard people raving about how they can have 2 bars of chocolate every day and still lose weight. I think it's ridiculous. I do agree that the support probably has a lot to do with it, it's almost mob mentality in a friendly "we're all in the same boat" kind of way!0 -
It makes me sad seeing all these young ladies doing pro-anorexia diets. You're only hurting yourselves. If you're feeling this low about your body, you don't need a diet, you need a psychiatrist. The ONLY way to really lose weight, stay healthy and keep it off is to adopt a healthy nutrition plan and get regular exercise. These are not quick fixes you can make, they are life changes. You need calories for your brain, muscles, and cells to survive and anything less than around 1200 calories a day is starvation. These kind of diets kill people. Please please please lose weight the smart way. Lean muscle and nutrition is the key to weight loss. I'm a personal trainer and I know the human body very well. Anorexia is not simply a physical illness but a mental one that should be taken just as serious as any other illness.
I used to be like that and it led to me developing an eating disorder, anorexia nervosa.
It's true, diets such as the ABC Diet and the Skinny Girl Diet are horrible- they lead to so many problems, the first of which being EDs. You don't NEED a psychiatrist, but it's recommended, because then you'll get the help you need, like I did.
Eating so much calories may seem frightening, trust me I know, but it's the only way to be healthy, along with regular exercise.
Skinny isn't beautiful; it's deadly.
So chin up lovelies.
respect to you for coming out the other side, i hope that everything works out for you:flowerforyou:0 -
By extension, calories carry the nutrients you need.
So if we get all the nutrients and enough protein in (say) 600 calories we're neither in starvation nor deprivation, as defined thus far.
I'm really really sick of reading your posts. Every freaking topic is an excuse for you to argue starvation and claim it's ok to eat very little. You show a picture of the Minnesota Starvation Experiment and then claim starvation isn't real.
Starvation Mode is a REAL THING.
NO, you will NOT hold on to all your fat, as your picture states. But yes, you will lose weight at a slightly slower rate than if you ate a little more, so why not eat 1400 or 1500 and lose the same as 800, to eat 800 would be intentional deprivation to the point of having the "control issues" mindset that defines anorexia.
Also, you will drastically damage your metabolism to the point where if you ever tried to eat your previous TDEE to maintain, you would gain, since your TDEE would have been drastically reduced.
Why would anyone promote "slower weight loss while being really hungry and ruining your metabolism long term", over "eating a healthy amount over BMR, still losing, and having energy and being healthy"?
Your argument is invalid, sir.
Yes, many people use "starvation mode" VERY VERY wrong. They say they're "in it" if they fast one day (IF is actually very good, IMO), or worry if they eat very low ONE day they'll be "in it" when it really takes a LONG period of time at significantly reduced calories to be affected by Adaptive Thermogenesis (starvation mode's REAL name). And NO, you WILL NOT hold onto ALL your fat, you will STILL lose weight while in SM but your BMR is lowering itself and you would be in less of a deficit due to that and therefore could lose the same amount eating more, so WHY eat less?0 -
If only there was a help button others could press where MFP can offer support.
there is a "report post" button below each message.0 -
The only thing I'd love to know about the 1200=starvation is this: I used weightwatchers to lose my first 30+lbs. I've added up my food diaries on here and converted them to points - and sometimes I'm over my "daily points" limit on 1200. I don't use their system anymore because I found it unsustainable.
I used to use a points based diet as well Scottish Slimmers. I was allowed 45 "checks" per day, each check amounted to 25 calories - thats only 1125 calories. On top of that you were allowed 2 pieces of fruit, unlimited veg and a calcium allowance all of which amounted to approx 200 cals plus veggies and I found that unsustainable and far too limiting! I supposed these things work for some and not for others. Personally I am on 1500 NET cals per day and even then I am still hungry sometimes and go over a bit and am still losing weight (allbeit slowly!).
I found it limiting with me too. I did not like the fact that if I was hungry at 6pm, that I felt guilty for having some toast or whatever. I can't completely knock it, I mean I did lose a good bit of weight but I find now I'm enjoying my food far more and if I want to have a drink or some crisps at night (as happened with the footy the other night) - I know that I can up my exercise that day, fit in an extra walk and I can safely have my treat.
I actually feel very, very sad reading some food diaries. I also don't think that people should be allowed weigh in every day. I think there should be a setting that only allows that once a week.0 -
That would be something defined a bit like this
Well the first one doesn't even contain the word "starvation" so I won't be looking any further. I'm familiar with metabolic rate reduction in response to reduced calorie intake, it's a few hundred calories at most.
However I don't know what the "Pro-Anorexia diet" referred to in the OP is ? and we've converged on a definition of starvation / deprivation as losing organ, bone or muscle mass.
Well in the case of extreme anorexia, yeah, they do lose hair, organ functions and eventually die... So things like a strict 1200 or less diet probably falls in the category the OP meant, especially when it's not seen (as it should be seen) as something that has to me met, but something you should keep away from. Some people here try to leave a few hundred calories on that 1200, then train on top of it and not eat back. All those little things you can add up and obsess about that can lead you further down to the point of developing and ED like anorexia or bulimia. And they are enabled here since they can get praise from their friends about it too, etc.
If I read correctly, that would be what she meant by "Pro-Anorexia diets".0 -
I'm not for them but I have had an eating disorder for most of my teenage and adult life. I tried to get healthy but did it wrong by eating the wrong foods and too much, and ended up overweight. I'm now trying to lose weight in a healthier way but it's not easy when I have this voice in the back of my mind telling me I'm eating too much...
I agree with what you're saying though, people I go to college with come and ask me for 'tips' on how to lose weight but I outright refuse! (I've lost 28lbs since I started college so it's obvious to them..) I have a disorder, it's not something I want and I certainly don't want to wish it upon them but they don't understand and just think it's about losing weight.
I wouldn't wish the way I feel on my worst enemy, it's a hell. I wish people would realize it hurts when they ask me about what I'm trying to deal with!
I aim for 1200, I reach it on a good day. I admit, if I'm having a bad day I don't reach 1000, sometimes I have as little as 600. But everyday is a battle and I try and get through it.
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That would be something defined a bit like this
Well the first one doesn't even contain the word "starvation" so I won't be looking any further. I'm familiar with metabolic rate reduction in response to reduced calorie intake, it's a few hundred calories at most.
However I don't know what the "Pro-Anorexia diet" referred to in the OP is ? and we've converged on a definition of starvation / deprivation as losing organ, bone or muscle mass.
Well in the case of extreme anorexia, yeah, they do lose hair, organ functions and eventually die... So things like a strict 1200 or less diet probably falls in the category the OP meant, especially when it's not seen (as it should be seen) as something that has to me met, but something you should keep away from. Some people here try to leave a few hundred calories on that 1200, then train on top of it and not eat back. All those little things you can add up and obsess about that can lead you further down to the point of developing and ED like anorexia or bulimia. And they are enabled here since they can get praise from their friends about it too, etc.
If I read correctly, that would be what she meant by "Pro-Anorexia diets".
perfect response.
The 1200 is a GOAL to reach, not avoid reaching. And there should not be praise for being under goal.
I believe it should be a target range...within 50 calories of goal is green in EITHER direction, 100 is yellow, 150 is orange, and 200 is red. That way you start your day red, get closer to green, and aim to stay in it once you get there, but if you get over into the yellow or orange you can exercise a little more to bring it BACK to green. I hate how 1199 tells you you're in danger when you click the button but 1200 makes it turn red. Some people don't like seeing red so they'd rather be in "danger" than eat 1205 because it will be red.0 -
Well said Robin520770
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