How much muscle can you gain in a calorie deficit?

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  • thistimeismytime
    thistimeismytime Posts: 711 Member
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    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/447514-athletes-can-gain-muscle-while-losing-fat-on-deficit-diet

    This is the ONLY shred of information I have ever seen about adding lean body mass on a caloric deficit.

    Thanks :happy: --that's an interesting read--leave it to heybales to post some research! lol

    Here's the link to the full study----

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CD4QFjAF&url=http://brage.bibsys.no/nih/bitstream/URN:NBN:no-bibsys_brage_17906/1/Garthe%20IntJSportNutrExercMetabol%202011.pdf&ei=CxEPT-W2CsHs0gH41r2LAw&usg=AFQjCNHSb3EHhURcxsBAz20_6k_PvtyAUg&sig2=KQAQTF9njVVaZfOT_MVaNA
  • DrMAvDPhD
    DrMAvDPhD Posts: 2,097 Member
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    Calipers can have up to 8% error, so +/- 13 lb here. Signicant figures!

    PS Please don't hate on the science geek lurking on your athlete forums.

    I'm a science geek too, using my pubmed to try to find actual data on muscle gain... but apparently people don't really study this well. I mean, I guess it makes sense that there is far more literature on weight loss than muscle gain, but damnit I hate it when pubmed can't give me what I want.

    I haven't really tried to research that, but my point here is that the increase this poster has seen is WELL within the expected error of his tool.

    And he is completely ignoring sigfig (which makes my inner Graduate-Student-Instructor die a little).

    Edited: I'm an idiot and just realized the OP was you, and female (I apologize, I'm typing on a phone so I am going to blame limited screen size and zero short term memory).
  • Crazy4Healthy
    Crazy4Healthy Posts: 626 Member
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    Bump...
  • ChristyP0303
    ChristyP0303 Posts: 212 Member
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    Yes, you CAN gain muscle on a calorie deficit! My husband and I both have done so. I think it depends on how much weight you have to spare. I started out at 310 pounds. I had a lot of "calories" already stored that my body could use for this. As far as how much you can gain? IDK, I'd say I've probably gained at least 15 pounds or so over the last year. My husband gained more. I will say once he upped his calories to maintainence, he started gaining more rapidly.

    How do you back up your claims? Because his muscles and yours became more visible? He became stronger? Did you have your bodies evaluated before and after?

    My husband weighed 420 pounds. Today he weighs 208. We have been working with a personal trainer 2x a week for 13 months. We have been working out for 6 days a week for the last 56 weeks! They (trainers at the gym) have been using the little machine to monitor our body fat percentages. Assuming those machines are somewhat accurate....my body fat percentages wouldnt even register when I first showed up there. The highest it would go is 60%. So yes, all of the above. I love watching him workout now, especially in muscle shirts! :blushing:
  • season1980
    season1980 Posts: 129 Member
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    IF and Leangains principles do work.

    The biggest thing is that you need to take advantage of the fact that your body is most efficient at muscle building and repair while asleep and most efficient at fat burning while awake and exercising, and time your eating and exercise accordingly.

    Go to bed stuffed, with a lot of protein available, exercise starved, after many hours of not eating. If you don't truly IF, it helps to do a little exercise after other food intake times to burn off much of the sugar/glycogen, so that you spend as long as possible each day burning stored fat, ideally slightly more than you took in the night before when cutting and exactly the same amount when maintaining.

    Is there any evidence or research that you can gain muscle on a caloric deficit living like this?? Honestly, I'd never do it anyway, because it just sounds miserable to me. "Go to bed stuffed", and "exercise starved"----I'd never be able to sleep if I was stuffed, and I'd get a sub-standard workout if I was starved. It wouldn't be worth it to me. Still waiting on some research...Anyone????

    Google is your friend.

    Curious why you think athletic performance would suffer in the face of hunger, unless you don't believe in evolution? If anything it should improve (I work out much, much better when fasted). Declining athletic performance in the face of short term hunger (not long term starvation) is pretty much monther nature giving you the finger.

    I was just speaking for myself--I'm not saying what other people would/should do...I just wouldn't be comfortable going to bed stuffed with a "food baby" every night, but if everyone else wants to, that's great! I really have no idea why mother nature would give me the finger, but hey, whatever. :drinker:

    Actually, I have googled this topic extensively, and I already reported my basic findings in a previous post. I'm well aware that IF works for weight loss--that's really not the issue here though. I'm just wondering if there is ANY research anywhere to support the claim that you can BUILD muscle while eating at a caloric deficit, that's all! Because from what I've found it is impossible UNLESS you are very obese or taking steroids. I don't want to argue with anyone...to each their own. Just honestly looking for research---and shamelessly bumping this thread to see if anyone has found anything that I haven't. :smokin: So far, looks like me (and the OP) are going to strike out and just get an endless flood of opinions...:ohwell:






    I dont think building muscle in a deficit it possible only preserving muscle......but I must say whatever you are doing is working looked at your pics and your transformation from Jan has been AMAZING!!!!! I am so inspired : )
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,401 MFP Moderator
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    Yes, you CAN gain muscle on a calorie deficit! My husband and I both have done so. I think it depends on how much weight you have to spare. I started out at 310 pounds. I had a lot of "calories" already stored that my body could use for this. As far as how much you can gain? IDK, I'd say I've probably gained at least 15 pounds or so over the last year. My husband gained more. I will say once he upped his calories to maintainence, he started gaining more rapidly.

    How do you back up your claims? Because his muscles and yours became more visible? He became stronger? Did you have your bodies evaluated before and after?

    My husband weighed 420 pounds. Today he weighs 208. We have been working with a personal trainer 2x a week for 13 months. We have been working out for 6 days a week for the last 56 weeks! They (trainers at the gym) have been using the little machine to monitor our body fat percentages. Assuming those machines are somewhat accurate....my body fat percentages wouldnt even register when I first showed up there. The highest it would go is 60%. So yes, all of the above. I love watching him workout now, especially in muscle shirts! :blushing:

    Those machines arent that accurate. Like i stated above hydration level alone can make it +/- 8% . That being said your husband was morbidly obese so it may be possible. The thing is, just because you cut body fat doesnt mean you gained muscle. You can gain strength and maintain the amount of lean body mass. And the closer you get to a normal range thae harder it is to gain muscle on a caloric deficit. Its rather too often that people confuse strength and muscle defintion for growth.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,017 Member
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    An insignificant amount for total increases in muscle mass is the best case scenario, although regional lean mass increases can be more significant.
  • Awkward30
    Awkward30 Posts: 1,927 Member
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    Calipers can have up to 8% error, so +/- 13 lb here. Signicant figures!

    PS Please don't hate on the science geek lurking on your athlete forums.

    I'm a science geek too, using my pubmed to try to find actual data on muscle gain... but apparently people don't really study this well. I mean, I guess it makes sense that there is far more literature on weight loss than muscle gain, but damnit I hate it when pubmed can't give me what I want.

    I haven't really tried to research that, but my point here is that the increase this poster has seen is WELL within the expected error of his tool.

    And he is completely ignoring sigfig (which makes my inner Graduate-Student-Instructor die a little).

    Edited: I'm an idiot and just realized the OP was you, and female (I apologize, I'm typing on a phone so I am going to blame limited screen size and zero short term memory).

    that's fine, and the numbers were copied straight out of the bodybugg website where I store my progress, so while maybe I shouldn't have reported out more sigfigs than are technically correct, it was their site. Also, as someone else posted, my composition hasn't changed that much, I've lost 10 pounds and a bunch of inches, but the way I store my fat hasn't changed fundamentally, while this may not be accurate, there's no reason to believe it isn't relatively consistent over time.

    ETA: That article is great, thanks for the link!
  • jg627
    jg627 Posts: 1,221 Member
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    Yes, you CAN gain muscle on a calorie deficit! My husband and I both have done so. I think it depends on how much weight you have to spare. I started out at 310 pounds. I had a lot of "calories" already stored that my body could use for this. As far as how much you can gain? IDK, I'd say I've probably gained at least 15 pounds or so over the last year. My husband gained more. I will say once he upped his calories to maintainence, he started gaining more rapidly.

    You were morbidly obese and used fat stores as calories to make MINIMAL gains but you didn't gain 15lbs of lean muscle mass in a year. Women can barely do that on a calorie surplus.

    That seems rude. She says she gain 15 lbs of muscle, she did. I still believe you can gain muscle mass on a calorie deficit. I did.

    How was what I said rude? Why are people so sensitive on this forum?

    A woman would do AMAZINGLY well to gain about 12lbs of muscle in ONE YEAR with PERFECT training and a PERFECT diet. I really don't have any idea why people think they can just build new tissue out of thin air. Once you get past the newbie gains, etc etc., then in order to continue to BUILD NEW TISSUE you have to have energy. The energy HAS to come from somewhere. If people could build new tissue on a calorie deficit, then they would also get fat.

    It's EXTREMELY difficult to build new muscle tissue without gaining a bit of fat as well. IF from LeanGains is a method of doing this but it is not an easy thing to accomplish. Also, Berkhan wasn't always natural.

    Hard doesn't mean you shouldn't try and minimal gains is better than no gains.
  • MoreBean13
    MoreBean13 Posts: 8,701 Member
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    I am not trying to be argumentative, but I wonder if the 15 lb muscle gain is really a reflection of testing inaccuracy at the very beginning, when you and your husband were at your heaviest. I think with a very high % BF its difficult to get a good estimation of LBM, using calipers or electrical impedence. I mean, very heavy people have a lot of muscle usually compared to a person of normal weight with a similar bone structure. It takes a lot of muscle to move around 408 lbs all day- even if you're sedentary and not moving much. I'm sure some muscle was developed like others said, but 15 lbs seems v. high.
  • amsparky
    amsparky Posts: 825 Member
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