Trick and Treat - how healthy eating is making us ill & fat
Replies
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Since cutting back on processed foods etc, I really have noticed how much fuller I am, and I will say that on the days i have let myself have more sugary things i feel a whole lot more hungry.Plus Ive noticed that if im good all day and eat the proteins and veg, when i have something sweet after it actually makes me hungry even though I felt really full before that. Its weird to say the least but that is something i have learned in the last 5 weeks.Now I have learned to go for the healthy stuff as i know itsb gonna fill me more and really im eating less.0
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Ahh yet another high carbs / low fat vs low carbs / high fat that is the question forum topic (yeehaw):
which is best? the answer, BOTH !!!!
Both eating plans work , there is enough fact and fiction floating around to support or disprove either, but
thats not important whats important?
The key is ultimately the one you will be happiest on, the one you will personally stick with and feel great on while being able to live with for the long haul, neither is bad for your health,providing you are making healthy food choices period, neither is wrong, there is no black or white here, just do whats right for you, not your friends or family, but you.
Add in a daily dose of exercise (hopefully something you find fun and enjoy) and keep at it.
I personally eat low carb I feel great, tons of energy , loads of mental alert clarity, healthy hair, skin, nails, tests resuls at drs all good at checkups, and this works for me because I like it, therefore if I like it I will stick with it and be successful.
I have a friend who loves high carb/low fat lifestyle and this person also has success because its what they like, therefore they will stick with it and be successful also.
There is more than one path leading to the same finish line.0 -
Ahh yet another high carbs / low fat vs low carbs / high fat that is the question forum topic (yeehaw):
which is best? the answer, BOTH !!!!
Both eating plans work , there is enough fact and fiction floating around to support or disprove either, but
thats not important whats important?
The key is ultimately the one you will be happiest on, the one you will personally stick with and feel great on while being able to live with for the long haul, neither is bad for your health,providing you are making healthy food choices period, neither is wrong, there is no black or white here, just do whats right for you, not your friends or family, but you.
Add in a daily dose of exercise (hopefully something you find fun and enjoy) and keep at it.
I personally eat low carb I feel great, tons of energy , loads of mental alert clarity, healthy hair, skin, nails, tests resuls at drs all good at checkups, and this works for me because I like it, therefore if I like it I will stick with it and be successful.
I have a friend who loves high carb/low fat lifestyle and this person also has success because its what they like, therefore they will stick with it and be successful also.
There is more than one path leading to the same finish line.
Yup
not to mention the food that would support your trainings. People only look for deficits, their trainings brings nothing interesting in the end. If so, it would be wiser to stay on the couch all day long with the deficit based on the TDEE 0 -
Interesting article. I am not a fan of the no carb way of life. I've tried it. I can't keep my activity levels as high when I'm purposely eating no carbs.
What makes us ill and fat IMO is eating too many carbs. Pounding down beers and pizza, donuts and sodas... we overload with carbs.
My daily goal as prescribed to me by a doctor is to keep my protein intake about half of my overall calories, and that when body building to shoot for 1g of protein per pound of lean muscle mass, so I try to take in about 200g of protein a day. That's supposed to be half of my diet. THe other half is composed of carbs and fat, eaten at strategic points in the day.
The paleo diet did not work for me. I find it just another diet in a string of diets that may work for one but not work for the other. I would also rather not endure the paleo diet because I don't enjoy it. So long as I'm keeping my body at a good weight, I'm building muscle, and I'm keeping my numbers good, I'm fine.
I think it is a fallacy to follow any linear line of thought that says "if you don't do this, you are doing it wrong" when it comes to many things (politics, religion... diet)
Carbs don't make you fat, surplus does
Fats don't make lose weight, deficit does
This is true. If you eat 500 calories of just carbs a day you won't put on fat. But I find carbs a lot less satisfying than protein and fats and I'm soon hungry.
I can see the refined junk carbs, but what about oats, brown rice, millet, barley, quinoa and other whole grains that have an abundant amount carbs. Forgive me if I missed something in your posts, but it seems that you (or the book) are grouping all carbs together and labeling them bad or unnecessary or whatever. All carbs are not created equal - there is a big difference in eating a bowl of oatmeal compared to 2 slices of white toast (both have around the same amount of calories). The best bet for the average person is to eat a clean, well-balanced diet that consists of whole natural foods, healthy fats and lean proteins as much as possible.
I also don't agree with your definition of "healthy eating".
Like I said, forgive me if I missed something in the earlier posts. I was caught up playing Words With Friends.0 -
But I find carbs a lot less satisfying than protein and fats and I'm soon hungry.
The lack of satiety here is simply the insuline drop....that glucagon highers after that. But low-Gi CHOs prevent that.
The dietary fat do higher insuline, so the proteins, in a less measure by the way.
It is not a clever approach to compare nutrients, every has its own set of properties. Have you ever tried to prevent hypoglycemia by eating almonds ?0 -
Salt definitely does affect your blood pressure. If the kidneys are overwhelmed the salt will enter the blood vessels and pull in water thus increasing pressure. And 16 g is way over a healthy amount......you may not need to monitor salt much if you are healthy but if you are overweight you are probably at risk for DM and its complications, high BP ect.0
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"So does this mean that you practice these ideas and eat 70% fat every day?
Can you make your diary open so I can see what foods you eat to maintain these ratios? "
I don't eat these ratios, as I've mentioned these are not my opinions but a book I read and wanted to share. I will embark on the Paleo diet tomorrow which is high protein, low fat and low carbs. If you want to see my diary please add me.
If you would like to read what a typical diet is like for the 72 year old author: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/3230846/Healthy-food-Should-we-be-eating-more-fat.html
"I tried doing Adkins (low carb) but I found that I had problems with getting enough energy to do my workouts. I've introduced carbs back into my diet while still eating high protein levels and have found that my weight loss has picked up drastically probably because I have more energy to be more active. "
I have tried the Atkins diet and didn't like it. I didn't find it to be healthy at all. It says you can eat processed meat. As long as you keep your carbs down you can eat anything. I like the idea of the Paleo diet because although it is high protein it emphasizes that all processed foods are banned and you can't eat salami and dairy etc. The basis is lean mean and fish supplemented with as many veg and fruit as you like. So I am hoping to get my energy from the protein converted to glucose AND the carbs in fruit and veg. Atkins can be very dangerous to the kidney and you can soon get protein poisoning if you don't eat protein with fats or carbs.
"Since cutting back on processed foods etc, I really have noticed how much fuller I am, and I will say that on the days I have let myself have more sugary things I feel a whole lot more hungry.Plus I've noticed that if I'm good all day and eat the proteins and veg, when I have something sweet after it actually makes me hungry even though I felt really full before that. Its weird to say the least but that is something I have learned in the last 5 weeks.Now I have learned to go for the healthy stuff as I know its going to fill me more and really I'm eating less. "
Yeah that is because when you eat sweet food and raise your blood sugar levels they will drop quickly and you will be hungry again. Protein and fat will not raise your insulin or blood sugar levels so you feel satisfied for longer.
"Ahh yet another high carbs / low fat vs low carbs / high fat that is the question forum topic (yeehaw): which is best? the answer, BOTH !!!!"
This is true. I believe that you can eat high fat and high protein or high protein and low fat, to lose or maintain weight and avoid sugar drops. In my personal opinion I would rather limit saturated fats. Not ban them, but not eat unlimited amounts.
"I can see the refined junk carbs, but what about oats, brown rice, millet, barley, quinoa and other whole grains that have an abundant amount carbs. Forgive me if I missed something in your posts, but it seems that you (or the book) are grouping all carbs together and labeling them bad or unnecessary or whatever. All carbs are not created equal - there is a big difference in eating a bowl of oatmeal compared to 2 slices of white toast (both have around the same amount of calories). The best bet for the average person is to eat a clean, well-balanced diet that consists of whole natural foods, healthy fats and lean proteins as much as possible."
These carbs are better carbs than the simple sugars white flour supplies. But from what I understand, they are still not very high in Vitamins, Minerals and Fiber. There is much more in veg, fruit and protein. Also I understood that a lot of carbs will actually deplete the nutrients from your body. I think though that if you enjoy running or similar exercise these are good sources of energy.0 -
That what a balanced diet targets : make sure you don't lack of anything. This is not about excluding out food, rather see which brings what. Paleo diet could lead to much micronutrients deficiencies if it is not done with care0
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way too long.
all I got from this is that no matter what you do, you are screwed....
so therefore, it is a waste of my time.
everything causes cancer, everything is bad for you, everything kills you. the end.0 -
I have to watch my carbs with the T2. I was slacking and I found myself gaining weight and becoming less energetic. Its amazing how getting off the starchy carbs changes things. I notice I am more alert, after only one week, and my energy is level is up. You don't need the white carbs, but our diets ARE built around them. Bread has been around for thousands of years...rice too. Not sure about pasta. I still consume carbs....but not from the starches. That's not to say I will never eat a piece of bread again. But I wont crave it like I had in the past.
As for fats, I do tend to watch them but I use butter in moderation. I use olive oil, sometimes peanut oil. I also....horrors....use a tbsp of mayonnaise with egg salad. Moderation, for me, is the key.0 -
Tl;dr
I think I need a sammich.
And I love carbs. They taste just like chicken.0 -
Tl;dr
I think I need a sammich.
And I love carbs. They taste just like chicken.
0 -
Tl;dr
I think I need a sammich.
And I love carbs. They taste just like chicken.
Awesome :drinker:0 -
I have to watch my carbs with the T2. I was slacking and I found myself gaining weight and becoming less energetic. Its amazing how getting off the starchy carbs changes things. I notice I am more alert, after only one week, and my energy is level is up. You don't need the white carbs, but our diets ARE built around them. Bread has been around for thousands of years...rice too. Not sure about pasta. I still consume carbs....but not from the starches. That's not to say I will never eat a piece of bread again. But I wont crave it like I had in the past.
As for fats, I do tend to watch them but I use butter in moderation. I use olive oil, sometimes peanut oil. I also....horrors....use a tbsp of mayonnaise with egg salad. Moderation, for me, is the key.
Moderation is the key yes, but we simply can't deny carbohydrates are the most efficient when it comes to ATP production.
I've nothing against low-carbers, paleo diets, ketogenic diets, etc... totally not
But when it comes to put daemon names on nutrients, it's one another story.
Much argue that going back to the Life our ancestors had is the thing we *all* should tend to - It requires to define the time range we are talking about, as far as I understand, before the neolithic period (9000 years BC), so the Mesolithic period maybe ?
1- Was the lifespan the same as today ?
2- Did our ancestors were required to get up in the morning, work all day long, train, and sleep ?
3- Were they healthy ?
4- Did strenght/ cardio practiced in those times ?
5- Were they aware of the energy pathway of the body ?
6- Were they as preoccupied as we are by their bodies ?0 -
I find that if I simply follow what my body is asking for, things balance out. I get days I don't get many carbs, but lots of protein, days I get a lot of carbs and not much fat etc, and it balances out, and I think that is the way it should be, People are always trying to see bad in foods, rather than simply striving for a balance where everything is had in moderation, and the body is listened to. I tried shoehorning myself into low carb and for me, personally, it left me feeling pretty unwell. It is true that things containing refined sugar can cause you to become more hungry, but that is why you balance out the treats you have, with plenty of protein and fibre so that they remain as treats, rather than an excess.
I, personally, could not spend the rest of my life not eating beans, bread, potatoes, rice or any form of refined sugar, or fruit. It cuts out far too much, and I personally, would find that sort of diet really boring as a part of a life that is already not that long. As long as I keep everything in moderation and keep fit, I see no reason that eating bread once a week, or my daily fruit, or the occasional baked potato, should cause me any harm. If I have ice cream or chocolate or cookies in the daytime, I balance it out naturally, by sticking to fish and vegetables in the evening. I see no point in extremes.0 -
I find that if I simply follow what my body is asking for, things balance out. I get days I don't get many carbs, but lots of protein, days I get a lot of carbs and not much fat etc, and it balances out, and I think that is the way it should be, People are always trying to see bad in foods, rather than simply striving for a balance where everything is had in moderation, and the body is listened to. I tried shoehorning myself into low carb and for me, personally, it left me feeling pretty unwell. It is true that things containing refined sugar can cause you to become more hungry, but that is why you balance out the treats you have, with plenty of protein and fibre so that they remain as treats, rather than an excess.
I, personally, could not spend the rest of my life not eating beans, bread, potatoes, rice or any form of refined sugar, or fruit. It cuts out far too much, and I personally, would find that sort of diet really boring as a part of a life that is already not that long. As long as I keep everything in moderation and keep fit, I see no reason that eating bread once a week, or my daily fruit, or the occasional baked potato, should cause me any harm. If I have ice cream or chocolate or cookies in the daytime, I balance it out naturally, by sticking to fish and vegetables in the evening. I see no point in extremes.
Well said!0 -
Ah, Paleo....
We should eat what cavemen ate, except nothing on Earth exists as it did when they would have eaten it. Animals have been altered by evolution and centuries of hormone control and selective breeding. Fruits and vegetables have all been cross-pollinated and selectively grown to produce higher and higher yields.
Nothing edible remains from Paleo times. Pretending to eat like a caveman and claiming superiority is complete nonsense. Not to mention fantastically expensive and unsustainable.
Oh yeah, and cavemen lived an average lifespan of about 30 years. They must have had all the secrets....0 -
I was going to stay out of this thread...........
Moderation is nothing but an excuse to continue to eat things that have little or no nutritional value.0 -
So I am academically curious how you know for a fact that grains were gathered only for animal feed, and not for human consumption, during the prehistoric hunter-gatherer societies. You know, the time before written history.
I would also like to know how you would explain the clay jugs and pots they are finding in ancient dwellings with millet and emmer wheat in them. Oddly enough, they are finding these pots in the hearth area, not the animal dwellings.
Or, you know, you could go one spreading misinformation and not critically thinking about the things you read.
Your choice.
So you think that prehistoric people ate bread and cereal? doughnuts and pizzas?
Even if they did eat carbs, they wouldn't have eaten anything like the amount that we eat today. Basically today we base our diet around carbs.
I'm quoting:
" The Agricultural Revolution began 10,000 years ago, just a drop in the bucket compared to the 2.5 million years human beings have lived on Earth. Until that time everyone on the planet ate meat, fruit and vegetables. For most of us it's been less than 200 generations since our ancestors abandoned the old lifestyle and turned to agriculture".
I find it very interesting that most of the deaths back then were from accidents, old age or infections. Today we have cancer and heart disease. I don't believe that everything he says is suited to me, but I believe that our diet has caused a deficiency in many important elements and the processed food has caused us to get ill.
Okay, first of all, prehistoric people did harvest grains. If they made bread it would have unleavened. Primarily it was cooked into gruel.
Second, you don't know that people didn't have cancerous cells in prehistoric times because there was no one to diagnose such.
You are making a lot of assumption in the area of anthropology...which happens to be a specialty of mine.0 -
"So does this mean that you practice these ideas and eat 70% fat every day?
Can you make your diary open so I can see what foods you eat to maintain these ratios? "
I don't eat these ratios, as I've mentioned these are not my opinions but a book I read and wanted to share. I will embark on the Paleo diet tomorrow which is high protein, low fat and low carbs. If you want to see my diary please add me.
If you would like to read what a typical diet is like for the 72 year old author: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/3230846/Healthy-food-Should-we-be-eating-more-fat.html
"I tried doing Adkins (low carb) but I found that I had problems with getting enough energy to do my workouts. I've introduced carbs back into my diet while still eating high protein levels and have found that my weight loss has picked up drastically probably because I have more energy to be more active. "
I have tried the Atkins diet and didn't like it. I didn't find it to be healthy at all. It says you can eat processed meat. As long as you keep your carbs down you can eat anything. I like the idea of the Paleo diet because although it is high protein it emphasizes that all processed foods are banned and you can't eat salami and dairy etc. The basis is lean mean and fish supplemented with as many veg and fruit as you like. So I am hoping to get my energy from the protein converted to glucose AND the carbs in fruit and veg. Atkins can be very dangerous to the kidney and you can soon get protein poisoning if you don't eat protein with fats or carbs.
"Since cutting back on processed foods etc, I really have noticed how much fuller I am, and I will say that on the days I have let myself have more sugary things I feel a whole lot more hungry.Plus I've noticed that if I'm good all day and eat the proteins and veg, when I have something sweet after it actually makes me hungry even though I felt really full before that. Its weird to say the least but that is something I have learned in the last 5 weeks.Now I have learned to go for the healthy stuff as I know its going to fill me more and really I'm eating less. "
Yeah that is because when you eat sweet food and raise your blood sugar levels they will drop quickly and you will be hungry again. Protein and fat will not raise your insulin or blood sugar levels so you feel satisfied for longer.
"Ahh yet another high carbs / low fat vs low carbs / high fat that is the question forum topic (yeehaw): which is best? the answer, BOTH !!!!"
This is true. I believe that you can eat high fat and high protein or high protein and low fat, to lose or maintain weight and avoid sugar drops. In my personal opinion I would rather limit saturated fats. Not ban them, but not eat unlimited amounts.
"I can see the refined junk carbs, but what about oats, brown rice, millet, barley, quinoa and other whole grains that have an abundant amount carbs. Forgive me if I missed something in your posts, but it seems that you (or the book) are grouping all carbs together and labeling them bad or unnecessary or whatever. All carbs are not created equal - there is a big difference in eating a bowl of oatmeal compared to 2 slices of white toast (both have around the same amount of calories). The best bet for the average person is to eat a clean, well-balanced diet that consists of whole natural foods, healthy fats and lean proteins as much as possible."These carbs are better carbs than the simple sugars white flour supplies. But from what I understand, they are still not very high in Vitamins, Minerals and Fiber. There is much more in veg, fruit and protein. Also I understood that a lot of carbs will actually deplete the nutrients from your body. I think though that if you enjoy running or similar exercise these are good sources of energy.
I respectfully disagree. I really think you should take time to read up on unrefined whole grains, which are VERY high in vitamins, minerals and fiber. They are some of the healthiest most nutrient dense foods you can eat. For instance, quinoa is a complete protein and contains amino acids, iron, calcium, among many other nutrients. Don't get caught up on the fact that they are carbs and look more at the nutritional value of each and the dietary health benefits they provide. As I said, all carbs are not created equal.0 -
I was going to stay out of this thread...........
Moderation is nothing but an excuse to continue to eat things that have little or no nutritional value.
Say what??? What about foods with high nutritional value? Is it ok to gorge on those? Seriously, shouldn't moderation define our whole diet, regardless of what we decide to eat?0 -
Life is about more than checking every morsel of food that enters my mouth has nutritional value, imo. By the time one had spent everyday checking each thing they ate had nutritional value, and that they were burning such and such number of calories a day, their focus entirely on perfecting their bodies, there wouldn't be much left of their lives to simply enjoy, and for me personally, and quite a few other human beings, part of life's enjoyment is having the occasional non nutritionally dense food item. But to each their own, I suppose. I am not overweight, I am far from it. I am relatively healthy, and I would rather go through my life having some of the foods I enjoy which are not so nutrient dense, alongside the many foods I eat that are nutritionally dense, than being anal about everything that goes in my mouth. And if that means I live a few years less, then so be it.0
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I was going to stay out of this thread...........
Moderation is nothing but an excuse to continue to eat things that have little or no nutritional value.
Look up the term "orthorexia nervosa" and think about how it might apply to you.0 -
Life is about more than checking every morsel of food that enters my mouth has nutritional value, imo. By the time one had spent everyday checking each thing they ate had nutritional value, and that they were burning such and such number of calories a day, their focus entirely on perfecting their bodies, there wouldn't be much left of their lives to simply enjoy, and for me personally, and quite a few other human beings, part of life's enjoyment is having the occasional non nutritionally dense food item. But to each their own, I suppose. I am not overweight, I am far from it. I am relatively healthy, and I would rather go through my life having some of the foods I enjoy which are not so nutrient dense, alongside the many foods I eat that are nutritionally dense, than being anal about everything that goes in my mouth. And if that means I live a few years less, then so be it.
That's not what I'm saying to do. The original poster replied to one of my statements saying that the whole grain carbs I mentioned, from what she understood, "are still not very high in Vitamins, Minerals and Fiber. There is much more in veg, fruit and protein". I'm simply saying that is an incorrect assumption and that, perhaps, she should take a little bit of time to look up the difference between the whole grain carbs and the refined, particularly because she (or the book she quoted) seemed to group them all together. She also mentioned how she has no energy after eating carbs, which is why I brought up the whole grain in the first place. I don't check out every morsel of food I eat, but I do have a general knowledge of most things (good and bad). But at a time when I'm trying to figure out my body and why it reacts to certain foods the way it does (inflammation, etc.) and for those things that might be new to me I will take some time to look it up. A lot of times I was pleasantly surprised and determined I would work things into or out of my diet. Knowing helps me make a more informed decision. If I get tired and hungry an hour after I eat a bagel, I'm going to figure out what I can eat while still keeping my calories in check and getting the most I can out of my meal.0 -
I missed this gem earlier:
Is there really anything else that needs to be said? This man has wisdom of the highest order.Animals that eat a natural diet don't have smelly droppings.0 -
I find it very interesting that most of the deaths back then were from accidents, old age or infections. Today we have cancer and heart disease. I don't believe that everything he says is suited to me, but I believe that our diet has caused a deficiency in many important elements and the processed food has caused us to get ill.
People didn't live long enough to have diseases like cancer and cvd. No one really died of old age back then (assuming you're referring to the time when diets were mainly composed of meat and berries)0 -
Ok, a lot of resistance. I am just finding this interesting. As I said, it's not my argument, it's a book.
I have found for myself that after using a diet of low calorie for 4 years and have reached my goal that it's not the healthiest way of eating. In my case. As I am hungry a lot of the time and I have had to substitute things for processed low fat stuff to keep my calories down. I am going to give the Paleo diet a go, which is very natural food, high protein low fat (but plenty of good fats) low carbs (but plenty of veg and fruit). I would rather stop counting every calorie, working hard for an hour most days of exhausting energy to burn 500 calories and stop being hungry. Will have to see how this more natural diet goes.
Carbs are needed for active lifestyles. I tried the 'low carb'- paleo approach (50-75 grams of carbs) with no dairy, very little carbs, lots of fat, coconut milk, nuts, etc for a bit and I lost A LOT of weight really fast (went from 112 lbs to 100 lbs at 5'5" in about a month). I really felt well at first, but after a few months I started seeing signs of hypothyroidism: hair falling put, brittle nails, lack of energy and could not work out at all, increase in cortisol (stress hormone), loss of muscle mass, and worst of all: I lost my menstrual cycle. I really could not eat enough fat to fuel my activity level. I started putting on weight from my metabolism slowing down and the worst was my pot belly that developed because of increased cortisol my body produced from the lack of fuel. And of course, after i reintroduced carbs (even feuits) i gained the weight back just as fast as i lost it, and i started storing fat a lot more. The truth is, no matter how much protein and fat you eat, if you dont have enough carbs, your body can't process the protein and your muscles and body won't get fed. Let's not also forget that your brain needs the glucose to
fuel itself. I think faster and better with more carbs. You just have to find the right amount of carbs for your body. I follow a diet close to paleo with my sources of carbs being fruits, tubers, veggies and dairy and I'm maintaining my muscle mass and a healthy
weight a lot better, I don't work out like crazy, and I actually smile now. Please google Matt Stone of 180 degree health who talks about those who have screwed up their metabolisms with low carb paleo/primal.
Don't get me wrong, fats are extremely important. If you don't have enough fat, you'll feel miserable and will probably binge. The most important thing to keep in mind to find the balance of macros your body needs. Balance is the key to a happy body and mind.0 -
I was going to stay out of this thread...........
Moderation is nothing but an excuse to continue to eat things that have little or no nutritional value.
Look up the term "orthorexia nervosa" and think about how it might apply to you.
Orthorexia nervosa (also known as orthorexia) is a non-medically recognized term[a] first used by Steven Bratman to characterize people who develop an obsession with avoiding foods perceived to be unhealthy.
It doesn't apply to me at all as I don't avoid foods perceived to be unhealthy. I incorporate healthier, cleaner foods into my diet, but if I want some chips on occasion I will eat them. You're the one who said moderation is an excuse to eat things with little or no nutritional value, which to me implies that one shouldn't, which is more in line with the non-medically recognized term orthorexia nervosa.
How does it apply to you?0 -
He didn't say that. You are confusing two different people.0
This discussion has been closed.
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