Should we stop calling people 'overweight'?
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My doctor told me "This is your BMI. Statistically people with BMI above 25 have greater risks". Made his point clearly without using the term fat or overweight. Also, allowed for the fact that BMI isn't everything.0
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Sorry I don't understand what you were saying there? There was no doubt it was extrememly swollen and bruised, my ankles have never been fat.... its not like he couldn't see the swelling because I was fat. He was saying that likely the swelling was extreme only due to my weight. He would have sent a slimmer person for an xray...
My point is that obviously a doctor can use whatever term they like. However the most important thing should be to deal with a persons injury or illness. Yet it seems like alot of people excuse poor/lazy doctoring when it relates to a fat person.
That is just horrible. :mad: I hope you filed complaints against him.
I had zero bruising or swelling or any visible injuries when I had a fracture in my ankle.0 -
Obese is ok I think, as that is a medical term.
Overweight technically doesn't make any sense. They should say over your healthy weight, or use some descriptor to signify exactly what weight you are over. It's easy to say, "we all know what hey mean", but I don't see harm in making it more clear.
I don't agree with changing it to be more sensitive to others unless it is super offensive. There was probably a time where just telling a patient that they are fat was ok. But, now, that wouldn't seem appropriate to say. Words carry meaning and are chosen and it's ok to rethink the correct word.
Another point, I'm not a doctor and I'm not saying this to patients day in and day out. I wonder if doctors are hearing a lot of backlash when they use those terms. So, it's not really that doctors just need to grow balls and tell it like it is...that really wears out a person day after day, but maybe by using a slightly different term, like saying, "you are over your healthy weight" is more helpful in making your day, as a doctor more pleasant. It could be less about offending others and more about the doctors being able to enjoy their day.
I know when I go to my doctor, I feel like I just walked into a fat farm. It's like there are no heathly people there, ever. Hmmmmm. Meaning, maybe they are saying it so often these days that it takes a toll on them. Telling people to 'get over it' on an anonymous Internet website is one thing, but actually making that happen is a whole different thing. It might be a bit of a grind to the medical professionals since obesity is like a huge epidemic American problem.
Anyway, I'm not sure if I'm being clear on my point. But, I guess if my assumptions are correct, I can see why they are discussing this issue.
Just my $.020 -
...I though you were joking so I was joking back...
And who better to get away with homicide, than his wife...I dont' want to hear from my husband "Have you put on weight"?
I WANT to hear from my doctor "You are overweight"
See the difference?
My MIL wouldn't go to the doctor for years because he kept telling her she was obese and she didn't want to hear it, so I guess thats the downfall, if we don't ignore it or sugar coat it then obese people will start avoiding the doctor and dropping like flies.
Well,
Who better to ask that question? Your husband.
This is the reason why we're having this conversation. Too sensitive to a topic that you should be able to have with your husband/wife. Don't pull double standards, cause most women will tell their husbands they're getting fat. It's a two way street.0 -
No, because then we'll have to come up with another politically-correct term and someone's widdwe feewings will be hurt by that, too.
"Overweight", "Obese", and "Morbidly Obese" are well-defined, clear, clinical terms. "Fat" used to be an acceptable term but has dropped out of use and was pretty much replaced with "overweight" to keep from offending fat people like me.
If we change it to "Gravitationally Enhanced" or "Circumferential Overachiever", we'll only buy ourselves another decade or so before THOSE terms become the new politically incorrect.0 -
So, if it turns out that using those words, rather than shifting language and addressing the actual associated health risks rather than the label, causes the majority of patients to tune out the doctor, get depressed, walk out the door and eat 3 big macs and a shake, well there's no reason to change it up? I get (and agree) that the words aren't offensive. I get that doctors should be honest with their patients, but they should also use words that are a call to action.
Any suggestions? I'm all ears. Seriously - we've changed the name before, and when I was a kid if you were "overweight" you were "fat". They already took the fangs out of the word by changing it to a more accurately descriptive term "over - weight". It grew new fangs. The next word will, too.
Because no matter what word you invent to describe "needs to lose weight", the message is "needs to lose weight". We could call it Agrappasldfja, and in 10 years people would be saying "my doctor called me Agrappasldfja, and I feel bad about that and I'm going to go eat three big macs and a gallon of coca-cola."
The problem is not the word - it's the concept. And doctors have to be able to express the concept. Once a new word becomes fully associated with having unhealthy amounts of fat in your body, that word will hurt the feelings of some people with that extra amount of fat.
Do we just change words every ten years, or what?
Ideally, a doctor would say, "your body fat percentage is 45%. That's at least 20% too high. I'm setting you up with a food diary and a dietician and an exercise plan and you will learn to eat properly." And, ideally, the patient would do it.
In the real world, many doctors have given up entirely on talking to their patients about being overweight. No matter what term they use, it's going to turn some people not ready or able to face the problem off.0 -
I have a particular bug about this issue because of a personal experience I had when obese. I've never even told anyone about it. I fell down some stairs and severely injured my ankle. I went the emergency room, waited 8 hours so that a doctor could tell me that I had only sprained it and the swelling was likely just because I was obese. He sent me away with a bandage and some paracetemol. When It was still extremely swollen and sore then next day I spoke to my mother who is a nurse. She couldn't believe they hadn't even sent me for an xray. I had to take myself to a GP and insist on being sent for an xray. My leg was so severely broken that even the xray technician said straight away "you'll probably be in for surgery this arvo". I was, I ended up with a plate and 6 screws in my leg, which could have gone completely undiagnosed because a lazy fat-shaming doctor...
Comeon, now let me hear how I deserved to walk around on a broken leg because I dared to be fat...
You didnt deserve to walk around on a broken leg because you were fat, but a very easy in pretty important way to see if an ankle injury is sever is to check for swelling. Its like the "heaver than normal" girls who dont know they are pregnant until the 5th month when they felt the baby kicking. Was that the doctors fault?
Sorry I don't understand what you were saying there? There was no doubt it was extrememly swollen and bruised, my ankles have never been fat.... its not like he couldn't see the swelling because I was fat. He was saying that likely the swelling was extreme only due to my weight. He would have sent a slimmer person for an xray...
My point is that obviously a doctor can use whatever term they like. However the most important thing should be to deal with a persons injury or illness. Yet it seems like alot of people excuse poor/lazy doctoring when it relates to a fat person.
Of course no one should be treated this way (or not treated, as the case seems to have been) and I'm sorry you were, but with all due respect, I don't see how this has any bearing on the issue at hand.
Yes, of course doctors should not condescend to their patients or act like a*holes, and obviously they are there to offer treatment. If a doctor finds that some patients respond better to body fat- or BMI-centered discussions, that's great. None of these things are what's being discussed. We're talking about in some way mandating that doctors remove certain words from their vernacular, in effect putting the responsibility for a patient's reaction to facts about his/her health on the doctor. Sorry, but that's wrong.
At the end of the day, we can't help people who don't want to be helped. No amount of change to terminology or guidelines or laws is ever going to change that.0 -
Political correctness is lame. What is actually happening is freedom of speech actions are slowly dwindling away, laws are being passed that hinder our rights as humans, privacy is being invaded, being told what you can and can't say cause its not pc and might hurt a minority or even majority in this case feelings.
If you're obese you are fat, simple. You are a fatty mcfat fat. Do something about it. I used to be fat, I've been chubby ever since being a teen.
No reason to not call something what it is. A spade is a spade. People need to stop being so sensitive
THIS!
I am so tired of all this PC as well! We have become a society of victims and nobody wants to take responsibility for their own actions! "We are all winners here...here have a participation trophy" SUCKS!!! We are not all winners...some of us are losers. Fact of life. Stop coddling our children! We are raising the next generation of welfare recipients because they think they are perfect, not responsible for their own actions and have a sense of entitlement that I have not seen in any other generation!! If they are overweight/obese they should be told by the doctor, their family members, and close friends. Otherwise they are being enabled to continue their unhealthy lifestyles.0 -
Its just like Midget, we had to change the name to "little people", but they are still midgets. Dwarfs are even littler midgets.0
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Just being fat is negative. Ask any fat person and most would agree. How the heck else would you describe a person's condition? Instead of saying I'm fat or I'm obese, would I say I have an abundance of adipose tissue? It still means I'm fat. Politically correct can sometimes be ridiculous.0
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Has anyone seen "My 600 pound life?" It is a show on TLC about people who go through surgery and are put on a weight loss plan to lose weight. I am amazed at how much the parentsapouses are at fault in most of these cases. There was one guy whose mom picked up from the hospital after surgery and drove him through the McDonald's drive thru on the way home! I was thouroughly disgusted!!! To me that is child abuse. They probably fed him crap his whole life and that is why he became obese!0
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At the end of the day, we can't help people who don't want to be helped. No amount of change to terminology or guidelines or laws is ever going to change that.
Except that they are trying to do just that!!
Two things I read recently in the news:
1) In the UK they want to tax cakes, fizzy drinks etc. But why should I, as a person who is very healthy and has chosen to get, and remain, slim, have to pay tax on something if I decide I want to eat cake once in a blue moon?
2) I also read that in NY they are banning large soda's, popcorn etc in cinema's and other places as people are becoming too fat (oops, I said the "F" word!) Apparently they are thinking about doing this in the UK too.
They need to be concentrating on getting people to take responsibility for their own health and not taxing those of us who already do!!:explode:0 -
I don't necessarily have a problem with the terms overweight and obese in the context of the doctor's office, but I do have a problem with the "healthy" weight calculations.
There is a ton of evidence that people of different ethnic groups have different bone densities and lean tissue mass. Considering most of the height weight charts and the BMI was developed with a white centric population, it isn't necessarily accurate for the diverse populations in the US. (Which I think at current count is 30% "minority" and in states like California, NY, TX, and FL are majority minority)
In a nutshell, all of the studies I have seen show that healthy BMI is lower for Asians, and higher for African-Americans (of course there isn't a good way to figure out how someone counts as one group or another). We just need a more accurate way to gauge health than weight, since weight doesn't tell the whole story. I'd be a lot more impressed if weight, body fat percentage, and results on the key tests were the definition of healthy (blood pressure, blood sugar, cholesterol, triglycerides....)
Personally, even though I am overweight, my numbers are generally really good. Even at my heaviest. I haven't visited the doctor for a couple of months, so I don't know if there are improvements.0 -
I don't necessarily have a problem with the terms overweight and obese in the context of the doctor's office, but I do have a problem with the "healthy" weight calculations.
There is a ton of evidence that people of different ethnic groups have different bone densities and lean tissue mass. Considering most of the height weight charts and the BMI was developed with a white centric population, it isn't necessarily accurate for the diverse populations in the US. (Which I think at current count is 30% "minority" and in states like California, NY, TX, and FL are majority minority)
In a nutshell, all of the studies I have seen show that healthy BMI is lower for Asians, and higher for African-Americans (of course there isn't a good way to figure out how someone counts as one group or another). We just need a more accurate way to gauge health than weight, since weight doesn't tell the whole story. I'd be a lot more impressed if weight, body fat percentage, and results on the key tests were the definition of healthy (blood pressure, blood sugar, cholesterol, triglycerides....)
Personally, even though I am overweight, my numbers are generally really good. Even at my heaviest. I haven't visited the doctor for a couple of months, so I don't know if there are improvements.
Weight is typically tied to those other things as well.
Unless you're an athlete or insanely strong, higher weight means higher body fat, higher chance of being out of shape, etc.
I think weight is a perfect way to determine if you're overweight or obese.
I see a lot of people who think they're healthy/not obese/fat/overweight, when they're clearly wrong. I'm not a doctor, no, but I can tell when someone has 20+lbs to lose.0 -
I don't necessarily have a problem with the terms overweight and obese in the context of the doctor's office, but I do have a problem with the "healthy" weight calculations.
There is a ton of evidence that people of different ethnic groups have different bone densities and lean tissue mass. Considering most of the height weight charts and the BMI was developed with a white centric population, it isn't necessarily accurate for the diverse populations in the US. (Which I think at current count is 30% "minority" and in states like California, NY, TX, and FL are majority minority)
In a nutshell, all of the studies I have seen show that healthy BMI is lower for Asians, and higher for African-Americans (of course there isn't a good way to figure out how someone counts as one group or another). We just need a more accurate way to gauge health than weight, since weight doesn't tell the whole story. I'd be a lot more impressed if weight, body fat percentage, and results on the key tests were the definition of healthy (blood pressure, blood sugar, cholesterol, triglycerides....)
Personally, even though I am overweight, my numbers are generally really good. Even at my heaviest. I haven't visited the doctor for a couple of months, so I don't know if there are improvements.
Weight is typically tied to those other things as well.
Unless you're an athlete or insanely strong, higher weight means higher body fat, higher chance of being out of shape, etc.
I think weight is a perfect way to determine if you're overweight or obese.
I see a lot of people who think they're healthy/not obese/fat/overweight, when they're clearly wrong. I'm not a doctor, no, but I can tell when someone has 20+lbs to lose.
But honestly, let's say someone weighs 200 pounds. And they may have weight to lose, without more measures, you don't know if their lean body mass is 150 or 111. The weight loss goals are very different based on body fat percentage.
Right now, I around 210. My estimated lean body mass is 140. If I bothered to get into "overweight" for BMI (which for my height is about 150) I wouldn't have anywhere near enough body fat to be healthy. But it is perfectly reasonable to assume someone else my height has a lean body mass of 111. So for them, being at 150 might leave then with a couple of pounds to lose.
You don't need to be an athlete to have a higher percentage of lean body mass than average. (Especially when accounting for ethnic differences in bone density/muscle mass). So it can be very flawed.
Talking about myself here, my doctor recommended I lose about 20 pounds. (Because I was complaining about my period, and it could have been impacted by my thyroid or recent weight gain of 15 pounds, but it was uncertain of the cause.) Prior to my complaints about my period? My doctor hasn't recommend to me to lose weight. Because all my other numbers were great. She wanted me to take my vitamins, eat my iron and stay active. That was it. No weight loss prescribed. For some of us, we can stay perfectly healthy and have a higher BMI. (My extended family is evidence of this, my most of my female relatives on my fathers side are around my current size, and I have plenty of them in their 90s and 100s Some were thinner when they were younger and some weren't.)
I also find doctors make assumptions about you based on weight. Around 2 years ago I had a minor toe fracture. My regular doctor wasn't available so I went to an affiliate to get an x-ray (at this point it wasn't clear I had a fracture). As you can imagine, having sever toe pain could cause a little bit of stress. And running around trying to figure out insurance nonsense to choose which place to go to for an x-ray to minimize my out of pocket and future costs. Oh and as these things go, it also happened on a day I had a really important work deadline. So I was a little bit wound up that day.
Before my x-ray, the doctor took my blood pressure and gave me the once over. My blood pressure was about 135/90 or something like that. And I had physical symptoms of high blood pressure. Swollen ankles. Well this doctor freaked out! He said you need a blood test right now you have high blood pressure. Not once did he ask me about my typical blood pressure readings, or how I was feeling or anything else. I didn't really think to question him. As you know, doctors are "authority figures."
So I did the blood tests and went to my doctor a few days later to review the results. I told her the whole story and she was really clueless about why the doctor ordered these tests, as I had no problems. And of course, my blood pressure was back to its typical 122/72.
What I want my doctor to do is give me an honest assessment on how to improve my health. Based on my personal history. Not something based on charts that haven't accounted for the important variables. (Like people who are active and eat well are very healthy at a higher weight and can live long lives free of chronic disease if they keep up the right habits). Instead of giving us one sie fits all advice.0 -
For a doctor to say a patient is overweight or obese is not the same as picking fun at them and saying, "You're a beluga whale. DOES MR. WHALE WANT A SALAD?!" In many areas, not just weight, people need criticism, but there is a difference between trying to build the person and being hateful.
I agree with the majority who have said the only inadvertently offensive thing about "obese" and "overweight" are that people don't want anyone else to notice that they're obese or overweight.
I honestly deal with this a lot at home. My Mom is obese, and it's not much of a surprise when I come home and find she's finished a container of ice cream in a matter of two or three days by herself. I constantly dance around my words and try to talk to her about it in a way that will hurt her as little as possible, but still get the message to her that if she wants it to change, she has to put forth the effort.0 -
I don't necessarily have a problem with the terms overweight and obese in the context of the doctor's office, but I do have a problem with the "healthy" weight calculations.
While I agree that weight-based calculations such as BMI have a great number of exceptions and are deeply flawed, I would also point out that anyone with a measuring tape and a scale can perform such a calculation, and that the exceptions to the rule are actually relatively rare. Most of the folks who are exceptions understand this and know why they are exceptions (athletes/weightlifters, very unusual body compositions, etc). The majority of them have had far more accurate tests done (body fat percentage being an excellent one) - a lot of those tests prompted by "bad" looking BMI numbers.
BMI is an imperfect but overall pretty good approximation of health that has the advantage of being accessible, understandable, quantifiable, and affordable. The more accurate you get in the approximation, the more complicated the approximation becomes and the less likely it is someone will actually calculate it for themselves.0 -
But why should I, as a person who is very healthy and has chosen to get, and remain, slim, have to pay tax on something if I decide I want to eat cake once in a blue moon?
While I'm not an advocate of "nanny taxes", I would point out that your choice to eat cake, as you say, "once in a blue moon" also means you'll be paying that tax at the same frequency. So while eating cake less frequently has a relatively smaller impact on your health, it also has a relatively smaller impact on your wallet.
Of course, the problem is - where do you start? Cigarettes? We know they are unhealthy and without any benefit to the user, but the exact same thing can be said of cake, and the impact isn't all that different (except of course there's no such thing as second-hand frosting).
If you want a "health impact" tax on cigarettes to help cover the medical costs associated with smoking them, then it's really a small step to cake and other empty sugars void of benefit.
So where is the line to be drawn? Increased sugar and tobacco consumption are both associated with increased long-term health costs. How do you make the people who use the system more help pay for their need for that use?
In America, we make them pay co-payments or declare their conditions "pre-existing" if they fall out of health care for more than 1 nanosecond, and we still have people trying to legislate portion sizes and regulate food. But in a single-payer system, you pay every time your neighbor eats a whole cake and chases it down with 5 sugary cokes.
Does everyone have to pay with no personal responsibility to the heaviest users for the drain they put on your health care system?
They can't tax fat, that would be a nightmare of biblical proportions. But they can tax fatTENING.0 -
I feel like those words are not said enough. I don't think that any should ever say them in a deragotory way or to undermine someone's self worth. But I think even dr's ignore the fact that being over weight is unhealthy, especially in people that are at a high risk for diabetes, high blood pressure etc. When I was 15 and tipping the scales at the weight I am now (230) my doctor never once mentioned to me that I should lose weight, and didn't say anything until I was diagnosed with diabetes.
When my mom recently got high blood pressure, the doctor just put her on meds never explained to her the benefits of lowering sodium and losing weight.
No one wants to approach the subject because it comes with such negativity, but I really wish that someone years ago told me that I was out of control and needed to reign in my weight and eating habits it might not be so hard now.0 -
Are we really going to let political correctness get that far? What's next? Not ever tell the truth because so and so doesn't like it? This is ridiculous. Is political correctness and someone's self-esteem more important than their health? I think not.0
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The BMI doesn't even fit within the white population, as we ALL are different. I don't think it has anything to do with race.0
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This is my husband and I on our wedding day... according to the BMI we were both obese that day
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This article is an interesting history of the BMI for anyone who is interested.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2009/07/beyond_bmi.html0 -
Beats being called lardass0
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ummm yea!0
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why have the terms if it doesn't motivate someone toward change?
let's just pussify people even further. let's call them "differently weighted"
"oh i'm differently weighted. that's cool. it's not like i'm fat or overweight"0 -
Oh come on, remove the stigma from obesity by banning terms that have negative connotations such as 'fat' and you will only exacerbate the obesity epidemic. It's far better overall for fat people to be told they're fat so they do something about it than for people to *****-foot around terms that could be labelled derogatory because peoples feelings may be hurt.0
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MFP stars out pu*sy now. Amazing. What if I want to talk about cats?!0
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I have been "overweight " for a long time But seeing the words morbidly obese written down by a Dr. I knew I was no longer overweight or fat I was beyond that. Until then It was only other people that were obese I was just chubbyish. Thus I am here it was a wakeup call to change0
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Being politically correct is kind of tiring.
Obese is/was a clinical term, if it makes people feel bad about themselves then perhaps they should start doing something about it. What else are you going to call it, scale-challenged? Size-8 impaired?
The words that describe my "overabundance of energy reserves" never hurt my self esteem. The fact that -those terms applied hurt my self esteem. Being told I was overweight or obese hurt my feelings, but it was still a fact. If people are using those phrases in a derogatory manner, then sure ppl can be angry- otherwise, as Shakespeare (R & J) once said: "If a rose were called by any other name it would smell as sweet."
If you call someone other than obese they will still be Size Impaired. People need to get tougher skins and start acting like they have power to change the perception of people around them by changing how they perceive themselves. Hey, Fatty's we are NOT powerless. We (well, most of us) are grown ups and have this thing called Choice. I'm a fatty, and probably even after I hit my goal weight I will still think of myself as a fatty fat butt, but I won't be clinically considered obese anymore.0
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