The Fat Acceptance Movement… Thoughts??
Replies
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I'm all for stupid people intolerance. If your IQ doesn't meet a certain prerequisite, I think you should be bashed and abused repeatedly.
I'm also for political intolerance. If you blindly follow a political party, I think you should be bashed and abused repeatedly.
I mean if its ok to bash and abuse fat people for being fat, we should be able to bash and abuse stupid people and close minded people too right?
I think being fat is a horrible condition to be in. I think that people should definitely try to maintain and be healthy. I think that we owe it to ourselves. What I don't think needs to be done is the ostracization and abuse that people levee to overweight people or the brutal dehumanizing we do to people who are overweight, fat, obese... whatever.
So ... fat acceptance? I accept that you may lead the life you choose to lead without me lording it up over you. I wish if you are overweight that you'd work yourself in shape for your health, but if you choose not to, that's your choice.
Dehumanizing fat people, making fun of them, abusing them for being fat? Simply not acceptable. At all. Not any more acceptable than making fun of someone who is stupid.0 -
I'm all for stupid people intolerance. If your IQ doesn't meet a certain prerequisite, I think you should be bashed and abused repeatedly.
I'm also for political intolerance. If you blindly follow a political party, I think you should be bashed and abused repeatedly.
I mean if its ok to bash and abuse fat people for being fat, we should be able to bash and abuse stupid people and close minded people too right?
This is obviously the most ridiculous thing ever - first of all, there's a HUGE difference between "abusing and bashing" and actually informing them that their life choices are unhealthy. But thanks for allowed me to bash you for your stupidity
I'm so glad you approve. 0 -
I read the first page, but not the rest, so this has probably already been said. But, I am not for it only because it is not healthy. Any movement that promotes unhealthy behavior is not ok in my mind. There is no good reason to be happy being overweight.0
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I'm all for stupid people intolerance. If your IQ doesn't meet a certain prerequisite, I think you should be bashed and abused repeatedly.
I'm also for political intolerance. If you blindly follow a political party, I think you should be bashed and abused repeatedly.
I mean if its ok to bash and abuse fat people for being fat, we should be able to bash and abuse stupid people and close minded people too right?
This is obviously the most ridiculous thing ever - first of all, there's a HUGE difference between "abusing and bashing" and actually informing them that their life choices are unhealthy. But thanks for allowed me to bash you for your stupidity I'm so glad you approve.
You're such a pretty princess. I'm glad that you thought I was talking about you (I didn't read the thread I jumped in to the end to discuss fat acceptance and fat bashing which are often tied hand in hand).
Informing a fat person that their life choices are unhealthy is pretty noble of you. I'm sure that they had no idea.0 -
Susan Powter said it really well- If you have accepted your weight, fine, but PLEASE don't fill the air with the static that it's ok or healthy, because it isn't.0
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I'm all for stupid people intolerance. If your IQ doesn't meet a certain prerequisite, I think you should be bashed and abused repeatedly.
I'm also for political intolerance. If you blindly follow a political party, I think you should be bashed and abused repeatedly.
I mean if its ok to bash and abuse fat people for being fat, we should be able to bash and abuse stupid people and close minded people too right?
This is obviously the most ridiculous thing ever - first of all, there's a HUGE difference between "abusing and bashing" and actually informing them that their life choices are unhealthy. But thanks for allowed me to bash you for your stupidity I'm so glad you approve.
You're such a pretty princess. I'm glad that you thought I was talking about you (I didn't read the thread I jumped in to the end to discuss fat acceptance and fat bashing which are often tied hand in hand).
Informing a fat person that their life choices are unhealthy is pretty noble of you. I'm sure that they had no idea.
Yeah you would think that all obese people know that their life choices are unhealthy, and that all smokers know that smoking is unheathy. Makes you wonder why our governments feel the need to spend a billion a year informing everyone doesn't it.
Fact is there is still a lot of people that don't realise just HOW unhealthy their lifestyle choices are0 -
I have met very very few smokers that don't know that smoking is bad for you.
I have met very very few fat people that don't know that being fat is bad for you.
I have met many people that feel the need to share with fat people that they are disgusting and that they are unhealthy. If we're going to crusade against the fat people being unhealthy we better also pack up and start letting the smokers know that they are going to die and the *kitten* need to be informed that their sport-****** is going to lead to HIV and death as well.
It's similar to religious people telling other people that if they don't read their holy book and accept their holy dogma that they will burn in a pit of fire for all time.
To anyone who feels the pressing need to tell fat people they are unhealthy, unless you are their doctor or unless they specifically asked you for your opinion on being fat, please kindly STFU. I can pretty much guarantee you that being fat carries with it an entire package deal of ridicule and social issues and that they have probably been told by a good many non-fat people how unhealthy they are, so even the dimmest of fat people knows that being fat is probably not the best thing for them if only because people treat them like feces on a day to day basis.0 -
Yeah you would think that all obese people know that their life choices are unhealthy, and that all smokers know that smoking is unheathy. Makes you wonder why our governments feel the need to spend a billion a year informing everyone doesn't it.
Fact is there is still a lot of people that don't realise just HOW unhealthy their lifestyle choices are
Of course here in the UK the government receives over £12bn a year in revenue from tax on tobacco...........A tidy sum and no mistake.
Certainly people know how unhealthy their lifestyle choices are but often it's something where the price won't be paid for years and decades to come - when you're young who looks that far ahead; "I'll change when I'm a bit older".....
Another factor is peer group. If you're a smoker or a super-fatty surrounded by a family of friends who are the same then it does indeed become "normal". Often you rationalise it to yourself "well I know I drink quite a lot, but it's less than all my mates so it's not too bad really".
That's the problem with the acceptance movement - you make it OK and you enable the problem. It'll get worse and you'll reduce people's motivation to take better care of themselves.0 -
People getting up in other peoples business... the number one problem in the world.
This thread is a fascinating psychological study piece.0 -
A seperate point; society on the whole works to accomodate norms. Statistical averages and those within a certain range. Some people have size 17 shoes. Some people have one leg. Some people are 7foot 6inches tall. Should every shoe manufacturer and retailer be forced to make available shoes up to size 17? Should all clothes shops sell trousers with one leg? Should all doorframes be legislated to be 7foot 10inches high?
Of course they bloody shouldn't. And these are for things those people have no control over!!
Just because there are more super-fatties than one-legged giants with size 17 feet (foot actually) doesn't mean everything else should change to accomodate them and their choices. Because if they do, manufacturers, builders, insurers and retailers will need to pass those costs on, and it'll be everyone else that has to pick them up.
[it's good to rant on a Friday afternoon]0 -
I have met very very few smokers that don't know that smoking is bad for you.
I have met very very few fat people that don't know that being fat is bad for you.
I have met many people that feel the need to share with fat people that they are disgusting and that they are unhealthy. If we're going to crusade against the fat people being unhealthy we better also pack up and start letting the smokers know that they are going to die and the *kitten* need to be informed that their sport-****** is going to lead to HIV and death as well.
It's similar to religious people telling other people that if they don't read their holy book and accept their holy dogma that they will burn in a pit of fire for all time.
To anyone who feels the pressing need to tell fat people they are unhealthy, unless you are their doctor or unless they specifically asked you for your opinion on being fat, please kindly STFU.
For someone who has such a strong feeling against telling people about their choices, it seems strange that you think it's fine for you to strongly tell people what they should do - unless STFU isn't an instruction.
You're naive if you think that ALL fat people are aware of ALL the dangers of being overweight. Diabetes - yeah MOST know that but not all. Sleep apnea? Gallbladder disease? Nothing wrong with education and if that also means telling *kitten* about HIV then so be it.
The difference with your rather daft religious anaolgy is that medical advice is based on years of scietific study and irrefutable data.0 -
I guess I can distil my thought process on the matter as such:
If you are against "fat acceptance" because they are unhealthy and that is why you feel you need to tell fat people they are unhealthy "for their own good"... that's fine unless:
You know smokers and you don't harp on them about quitting smoking. Because smoking is bad for your health.
You know people who drink alcohol excessively and you don't harp on them about lessening that, because excessive drinking is bad for your health.
You know people who sleep around and you don't harp on them about lessening that, because sleeping around can be bad for your health.
We can bullet point a few other areas in life that are bad for your health as well.
If you also let those people know that their lifestyle choices are bad for them and that they should really stop what they are doing for their own good, then awesome.
If not, then you are selectively picking what you feel offends you (fat people in this case) and you are participating in a form of passive bullying. Bullying doesn't neccessarily have to mean throwing rocks at people, slapping them and giving them titty twisters. Telling a fat person they are fat, or telling them they need to lose weight, or telling them that they are living an unhealthy life style are all forms of negative reinforcement which can also be construed as a form of passive aggressive bullying.
So don't accept fat people. I don't really give a damn one way or the other what you accept. I don't accept certain things either. I didn't accept being fat in my life, that's why I work to not be.
But don't take it upon yourself to crusade against fat people under the noble guise of "doing it for their own good" unless you also crusade against smokers, drinkers, and people who engage in risky behavior where they can contract fatal diseases just because it's more socially acceptable to do those things as opposed to being fat.0 -
The difference with your rather daft religious anaolgy is that medical advice is based on years of scietific study and irrefutable data.
The point of that being people who feel it's their business to tell other people how to live. It doesn't matter if they have scientific study behind them or a book of fairy tales.0 -
I'm all for fat acceptance. I'm fat and trying to get healthier, but I'm not trying to get to a size 2. I will not starve my body anymore. I will fill it with healthy foods in reasonable amounts and I will exercise every day. And wherever my weight falls, it's fine with me. I will inevitably lose more weight, but I know that for me it's probably impossible to get into the "healthy" range of the bmi scale. (I'm 6' tall and I'll be happy to just get back to a size 14/16 and maybe back into a DD cup).
And I don't think that anyone in the "fat acceptance" movement is advocating an unhealthy lifestyle. I would not agree with that. But I do agree with the fact that we're all different shapes and sizes, with limited control over how much we can change that. No one can be 500+ pounds while living a healthy lifestyle, but I do believe that we can be "plus-sized" while still being healthy.0 -
I am a big woman. I am not happy with my size. My parents put me on my first diet when I was 9 years old. I have yo-yo'd for twenty years. During this time I have been active. I competed in Dance and gymnastics growing up, and all I ever wanted was to be skinny and pretty like the other girls my age. When you are overweight you have a lot of hate, disgust, and negativity thrown at you. Even in this thread you can feel it. I have always been kind, caring, energetic, pretty and fun. It took me until I was 27 to really love myself. And let me tell you, the extra weight I have on me does NOT define me. I will still be the same person when it is gone, and it will be. (There is no other choice) I have a healthy skinny husband and a healthy skinny five year old son, who I am doing everything in my power to not have him go down this path. NOBODY wants to be obese. But when you see that you have 100+ pounds to lose, cant't you see bow overwhelming it can be to some people? I don't think it's people being lazy, I think that people mainly feel hopeless. I think obesity is a problem of the country. It would be great if everyone who needed to would/could become healthier, but you cant make people change if they are not willing. Special accomedations should not be made, but a little humanity could go a long way.
Just remember that everyone regardless of what their circumstance is a fellow human being. Try not to judge. You never know
what kind of battle someone else is facing. :ohwell:
I agree with this^^^^^
I starting putting on weight at age 12 after suffering from years of abuse. From that point on I continued to gain, would lose some and then gain it back and more as I had a lot of emotional issues going on in my life and food was my comfort, my drug you could say to cope with what I shouldn't of had to from as young as I could remember, having my innocence stolen from me. Then when you are judged so harshly by society and you already feel the worse you can about yourself it is hard to be motivated and do anything about it. I am very healthy, even when I started this weight loss at 331. I have excellent blood pressure, no sugar issues and excellent cholesterol levels. So I guess from what everyone feels about fat people being unhealthy I am an acception. I just turned 44 this year and finally learned to love myself as I am. When I started to love and accept myself is now when I am in a place to take this weight off. I can just tell you from experience when you are being torn down daily by people and society it makes it very hard to feel you are worth anything, so you don't feel motivated to take care of yourself. I just think before people judge that others who are larger just make excuses and are lazy they need to understand you don't know that persons life, you haven't walked in their shoes, you have no idea what they are going through and why they got that way. I personally feel if large people weren't made to feel so disgusted about themselves they would start loving themselves and taking care of their bodies, as I am doing. The problem is as others have said, I am eating healthy and work out for an hour almost daily but you don't know that so I just got judged by what is seen. Even when I lose 100 pounds people will still judge because I will be 231 pounds and at 5'2'' still be obese. Sorry so long just felt I wanted to add my experience to this. 0 -
The difference with your rather daft religious anaolgy is that medical advice is based on years of scietific study and irrefutable data.
The point of that being people who feel it's their business to tell other people how to live. It doesn't matter if they have scientific study behind them or a book of fairy tales.
It's not telling people how to live, it's presenting them with facts and letting them chose how they live
People never used to be aware how damaging smoking was - they were presented with the facts and made their choices accordingly. Are you suggesting that there should never have been a campaign telling us the risks of smoking? Was it not their business to tell us?0 -
I'm accepting of fat until it threatens your health. Then, I'm going to judge you the same as I would if you were in tanning beds four times a day or walking around with a tumor on your face. Not smart.0
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The difference with your rather daft religious anaolgy is that medical advice is based on years of scietific study and irrefutable data.
The point of that being people who feel it's their business to tell other people how to live. It doesn't matter if they have scientific study behind them or a book of fairy tales.
It's not telling people how to live, it's presenting them with facts and letting them chose how they live
People never used to be aware how damaging smoking was - they were presented with the facts and made their choices accordingly. Are you suggesting that there should never have been a campaign telling us the risks of smoking? Was it not their business to tell us?
That's cool. If a person who is fat asks you to educate them, by all means do so. If you post the dangers of being fat on a public message board or forum, that's awesome. It's being done in a constructive manner that doesn't make a person feel like a sub-member of the species.0 -
What are you hoping to get out of this thread that wasn't covered in a few others that have been posted? Forgive the question if it seems a little direct, but someone could interpret this as an attempt to stir the pot.
This is MFP, we stir plenty of pots here!:laugh:
Anyway, the whole thing seems to me to be similar to the pro-ana thing...and I don't see it as healthy. But what do I know?0 -
what it comes down to is HEALTH.
if you are techincally overweight but have a good, clean health record with no weight-related risks, you SHOULDN'T have to feel like you're "fat" and work yourself down to a size 2.
If you are healthy, your actual weight shouldn't matter.
This goes hand in hand with appearances- someone who's chubby could still be healthier than someone who looks like a model. It's all relative. But if you need to be thinner to feel better socially/emotionally, I think that's fair enough- again, keeping healthy practices in mind.0 -
The difference with your rather daft religious anaolgy is that medical advice is based on years of scietific study and irrefutable data.
The point of that being people who feel it's their business to tell other people how to live. It doesn't matter if they have scientific study behind them or a book of fairy tales.
It's not telling people how to live, it's presenting them with facts and letting them chose how they live
People never used to be aware how damaging smoking was - they were presented with the facts and made their choices accordingly. Are you suggesting that there should never have been a campaign telling us the risks of smoking? Was it not their business to tell us?
That's cool. If a person who is fat asks you to educate them, by all means do so. If you post the dangers of being fat on a public message board or forum, that's awesome. It's being done in a constructive manner that doesn't make a person feel like a sub-member of the species.
Tell us what is being done that makes fat people feel like a sub-member of the species? Given that two thirds of Americans are reportedly overweight - are you suggesting that they all feel sub human?0 -
I guess I can distil my thought process on the matter as such:
If you are against "fat acceptance" because they are unhealthy and that is why you feel you need to tell fat people they are unhealthy "for their own good"... that's fine unless:
You know smokers and you don't harp on them about quitting smoking. Because smoking is bad for your health.
You know people who drink alcohol excessively and you don't harp on them about lessening that, because excessive drinking is bad for your health.
You know people who sleep around and you don't harp on them about lessening that, because sleeping around can be bad for your health.
We can bullet point a few other areas in life that are bad for your health as well.
If you also let those people know that their lifestyle choices are bad for them and that they should really stop what they are doing for their own good, then awesome.
If not, then you are selectively picking what you feel offends you (fat people in this case) and you are participating in a form of passive bullying. Bullying doesn't neccessarily have to mean throwing rocks at people, slapping them and giving them titty twisters. Telling a fat person they are fat, or telling them they need to lose weight, or telling them that they are living an unhealthy life style are all forms of negative reinforcement which can also be construed as a form of passive aggressive bullying.
So don't accept fat people. I don't really give a damn one way or the other what you accept. I don't accept certain things either. I didn't accept being fat in my life, that's why I work to not be.
But don't take it upon yourself to crusade against fat people under the noble guise of "doing it for their own good" unless you also crusade against smokers, drinkers, and people who engage in risky behavior where they can contract fatal diseases just because it's more socially acceptable to do those things as opposed to being fat.
"Doing it for their own good" sounds like what the Spanish said right before they invaded the Aztec empire.
I say live and let live. But again, like the pro-ana movement, it just doesn't seem healthy to me. Either way, I don't give no never mind to what others do or don't do. But if they wanted to throw some extra lbs my way....yes please. I was a skeleton on the elliptical yesterday.0 -
I think we need to find a happy medium. Unrealistic body images of super thin airbrushed models are equally unhealthy and should not be "accepted" just the same as extreme morbid obesity should not be "accepted" neither are healthy both are extreme. However we need to separate a person's body image from who they are and have that "human acceptance" everyone keeps talking about. Just because someone is anorexic doesn't make them a bad person... just because someone is extremely obese doesn't mean they are horrible people either. They are all people. Really what we needs to happen is society ceasing to degrade people based on their body image. They shouldn't be punished but they also shouldn't be rewarded or catered to solely on body image.0
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The difference with your rather daft religious anaolgy is that medical advice is based on years of scietific study and irrefutable data.
The point of that being people who feel it's their business to tell other people how to live. It doesn't matter if they have scientific study behind them or a book of fairy tales.
It's not telling people how to live, it's presenting them with facts and letting them chose how they live
People never used to be aware how damaging smoking was - they were presented with the facts and made their choices accordingly. Are you suggesting that there should never have been a campaign telling us the risks of smoking? Was it not their business to tell us?
That's cool. If a person who is fat asks you to educate them, by all means do so. If you post the dangers of being fat on a public message board or forum, that's awesome. It's being done in a constructive manner that doesn't make a person feel like a sub-member of the species.
There's a difference IMO between making public, general posts or something, or ... as happened to an overweight friend of mine ... having a stranger take food out of her grocery cart because it wasn't healthy enough.
Yeah. Seriously.
Did it make her lose weight? No. It made her go home and cry and then eat a quart of ice cream to feel better.0 -
what it comes down to is HEALTH.
if you are techincally overweight but have a good, clean health record with no weight-related risks, you SHOULDN'T have to feel like you're "fat" and work yourself down to a size 2.
If you are healthy, your actual weight shouldn't matter.
This goes hand in hand with appearances- someone who's chubby could still be healthier than someone who looks like a model. It's all relative. But if you need to be thinner to feel better socially/emotionally, I think that's fair enough- again, keeping healthy practices in mind.
^^^THIS
I've never seen the pro-fat acceptance glorifying a 500 pound woman. But if someone is a size 18 and beautiful and healthy, what is wrong with pointing out the fact that she is beautiful? Isn't it better than size 0 models with eating disorders? Which would you want your daughter looking up to? (Of course not all size 0 models have eating disorders, some are healthy too, but many are not. And it's not a realistic goal for most girls).0 -
I agree, I think its an excuse to just give up. There is NOTHING WRONG with not being a twig however! Even skinny people can be unhealthy! However, to just eat whatever, not try to eat healthy or get some form of exercise is not acceptable either though.0
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I think it's a practical reality and probably a good business model for the companies. When 50% of the American population is overweight or obese and can't fit on your plane, that is 50% of your customer base eliminated right off the bat. Studies show that people who take the bus get more exercise then people who drive, but if you can't fit on the bus seat, you're a lot less likely to take the bus. This hurts the transport system, less fares, hurts the people, less able to get around, and fuels the excuse to have a car, because at least you fit in it.
Modern society in North America has made it far, far easier to be obese then to be fit. Until that changes, there will be a whoooole lot of obese people. It doesn't make practical sense to then design society to make life harder for the people it has created.
It is a choice to buy a burger instead of a pita, but when you make 10$ an hour and the burger is 5 bucks and the pita is 8, which are you going to buy? And when everybody is working 60hr work weeks, has kids in this program and that program, it is very difficult to cook nutritious food. I don't have kids and find it hard to find the time. The entire modern day life style makes it easier and cheaper in the short run to buy quick, easy, unhealthy food. People are like water, they follow the path of least resistance unless they consciously decide "No, I'm not going to do this!", and then it's a fight up hill.0 -
I have met very very few smokers that don't know that smoking is bad for you.
I have met very very few fat people that don't know that being fat is bad for you.
I have met many people that feel the need to share with fat people that they are disgusting and that they are unhealthy. If we're going to crusade against the fat people being unhealthy we better also pack up and start letting the smokers know that they are going to die and the *kitten* need to be informed that their sport-****** is going to lead to HIV and death as well.
It's similar to religious people telling other people that if they don't read their holy book and accept their holy dogma that they will burn in a pit of fire for all time.
To anyone who feels the pressing need to tell fat people they are unhealthy, unless you are their doctor or unless they specifically asked you for your opinion on being fat, please kindly STFU. I can pretty much guarantee you that being fat carries with it an entire package deal of ridicule and social issues and that they have probably been told by a good many non-fat people how unhealthy they are, so even the dimmest of fat people knows that being fat is probably not the best thing for them if only because people treat them like feces on a day to day basis.
Thank.You.0 -
My first response to this is that just because someone is overweight does not mean they are unhealthy, and I think this is a huge misconception in the general population. While almost no one who is overweight wants to carry around the extra pounds, the two ideas are not necessarily mutually exclusive. For example, I have worked out regularly for the last 7 years (with a brief break in the last year that lasted about 6 months). I work out hard - hard and intensely. I ran a marathon and completed it when I was a good 90 lbs overweight, and I currently do kickboxing 6 times a week in addition to my gym time and regular bike riding. My blood work and blood pressure are all perfect. I don't have high cholesterol or glucose issues. With the exception of having some aches in my knees and back from the weight, literally, my only issue is that I am extremely overweight. Do I want to be this way? No, but it seems like no matter how hard I try, I can't get more than about 30 pounds off. Do I give up - No... but believe me, it's frustrating to spend 3/4 of a decade working on something only to have minimal weight loss results. Am I strong? You betcha... and I am trying to just make my peace with the idea that maybe I will always be this way, no matter how I try... but still I try (a living, breathing definition of insanity, perhaps). :O)
Personally, I still don't see "fat acceptance" in the general population. I still see the same things happening to overweight folks that I've observed my entire life. Some things just don't change. I think it's important that everyone be treated with respect and courtesy because, as observers, we have no idea what someone else's life circumstances are. No, most of the overweight population is not doing what I am doing or have been doing, but I know there are others out there, and as many of us are taught growing up, we don't judge a book by its cover.
I will also note that for anyone who is just using any "acceptance" movement as an excuse, that is really not okay in my book, but if the individual is healthy and doing everything s/he can, just love yourself and keep doing what you're doing.0 -
Tell us what is being done that makes fat people feel like a sub-member of the species? Given that two thirds of Americans are reportedly overweight - are you suggesting that they all feel sub human?
I think unless you are truly brain dead you already know the answer to this question. I don't suspect you to be brain dead.
Negative comments slung at someone for being fat make them feel sub-human. Excessive or prolonged negative comments are most destructive.
Many of the people who "help" others by telling them that their being fatasses are unhealthy aren't done in a constructive or compassionate way. They are done cruelly and with the intent to judge or put the person in a perceived inferior position. One only needs to paruse these very forums for several examples. It is that which I am talking about, not the gentile constructive education of the ignorant fat masses that being fat is unhealthy and can give you things like diabetes, high blood pressure, heart failure, liver failure, kidney failure, excessive fatigue, etc...0
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