The Fat Acceptance Movement… Thoughts??
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The difference with your rather daft religious anaolgy is that medical advice is based on years of scietific study and irrefutable data.
The point of that being people who feel it's their business to tell other people how to live. It doesn't matter if they have scientific study behind them or a book of fairy tales.
It's not telling people how to live, it's presenting them with facts and letting them chose how they live
People never used to be aware how damaging smoking was - they were presented with the facts and made their choices accordingly. Are you suggesting that there should never have been a campaign telling us the risks of smoking? Was it not their business to tell us?
That's cool. If a person who is fat asks you to educate them, by all means do so. If you post the dangers of being fat on a public message board or forum, that's awesome. It's being done in a constructive manner that doesn't make a person feel like a sub-member of the species.
Tell us what is being done that makes fat people feel like a sub-member of the species? Given that two thirds of Americans are reportedly overweight - are you suggesting that they all feel sub human?0 -
I guess I can distil my thought process on the matter as such:
If you are against "fat acceptance" because they are unhealthy and that is why you feel you need to tell fat people they are unhealthy "for their own good"... that's fine unless:
You know smokers and you don't harp on them about quitting smoking. Because smoking is bad for your health.
You know people who drink alcohol excessively and you don't harp on them about lessening that, because excessive drinking is bad for your health.
You know people who sleep around and you don't harp on them about lessening that, because sleeping around can be bad for your health.
We can bullet point a few other areas in life that are bad for your health as well.
If you also let those people know that their lifestyle choices are bad for them and that they should really stop what they are doing for their own good, then awesome.
If not, then you are selectively picking what you feel offends you (fat people in this case) and you are participating in a form of passive bullying. Bullying doesn't neccessarily have to mean throwing rocks at people, slapping them and giving them titty twisters. Telling a fat person they are fat, or telling them they need to lose weight, or telling them that they are living an unhealthy life style are all forms of negative reinforcement which can also be construed as a form of passive aggressive bullying.
So don't accept fat people. I don't really give a damn one way or the other what you accept. I don't accept certain things either. I didn't accept being fat in my life, that's why I work to not be.
But don't take it upon yourself to crusade against fat people under the noble guise of "doing it for their own good" unless you also crusade against smokers, drinkers, and people who engage in risky behavior where they can contract fatal diseases just because it's more socially acceptable to do those things as opposed to being fat.
"Doing it for their own good" sounds like what the Spanish said right before they invaded the Aztec empire.
I say live and let live. But again, like the pro-ana movement, it just doesn't seem healthy to me. Either way, I don't give no never mind to what others do or don't do. But if they wanted to throw some extra lbs my way....yes please. I was a skeleton on the elliptical yesterday.0 -
I think we need to find a happy medium. Unrealistic body images of super thin airbrushed models are equally unhealthy and should not be "accepted" just the same as extreme morbid obesity should not be "accepted" neither are healthy both are extreme. However we need to separate a person's body image from who they are and have that "human acceptance" everyone keeps talking about. Just because someone is anorexic doesn't make them a bad person... just because someone is extremely obese doesn't mean they are horrible people either. They are all people. Really what we needs to happen is society ceasing to degrade people based on their body image. They shouldn't be punished but they also shouldn't be rewarded or catered to solely on body image.0
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The difference with your rather daft religious anaolgy is that medical advice is based on years of scietific study and irrefutable data.
The point of that being people who feel it's their business to tell other people how to live. It doesn't matter if they have scientific study behind them or a book of fairy tales.
It's not telling people how to live, it's presenting them with facts and letting them chose how they live
People never used to be aware how damaging smoking was - they were presented with the facts and made their choices accordingly. Are you suggesting that there should never have been a campaign telling us the risks of smoking? Was it not their business to tell us?
That's cool. If a person who is fat asks you to educate them, by all means do so. If you post the dangers of being fat on a public message board or forum, that's awesome. It's being done in a constructive manner that doesn't make a person feel like a sub-member of the species.
There's a difference IMO between making public, general posts or something, or ... as happened to an overweight friend of mine ... having a stranger take food out of her grocery cart because it wasn't healthy enough.
Yeah. Seriously.
Did it make her lose weight? No. It made her go home and cry and then eat a quart of ice cream to feel better.0 -
what it comes down to is HEALTH.
if you are techincally overweight but have a good, clean health record with no weight-related risks, you SHOULDN'T have to feel like you're "fat" and work yourself down to a size 2.
If you are healthy, your actual weight shouldn't matter.
This goes hand in hand with appearances- someone who's chubby could still be healthier than someone who looks like a model. It's all relative. But if you need to be thinner to feel better socially/emotionally, I think that's fair enough- again, keeping healthy practices in mind.
^^^THIS
I've never seen the pro-fat acceptance glorifying a 500 pound woman. But if someone is a size 18 and beautiful and healthy, what is wrong with pointing out the fact that she is beautiful? Isn't it better than size 0 models with eating disorders? Which would you want your daughter looking up to? (Of course not all size 0 models have eating disorders, some are healthy too, but many are not. And it's not a realistic goal for most girls).0 -
I agree, I think its an excuse to just give up. There is NOTHING WRONG with not being a twig however! Even skinny people can be unhealthy! However, to just eat whatever, not try to eat healthy or get some form of exercise is not acceptable either though.0
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I think it's a practical reality and probably a good business model for the companies. When 50% of the American population is overweight or obese and can't fit on your plane, that is 50% of your customer base eliminated right off the bat. Studies show that people who take the bus get more exercise then people who drive, but if you can't fit on the bus seat, you're a lot less likely to take the bus. This hurts the transport system, less fares, hurts the people, less able to get around, and fuels the excuse to have a car, because at least you fit in it.
Modern society in North America has made it far, far easier to be obese then to be fit. Until that changes, there will be a whoooole lot of obese people. It doesn't make practical sense to then design society to make life harder for the people it has created.
It is a choice to buy a burger instead of a pita, but when you make 10$ an hour and the burger is 5 bucks and the pita is 8, which are you going to buy? And when everybody is working 60hr work weeks, has kids in this program and that program, it is very difficult to cook nutritious food. I don't have kids and find it hard to find the time. The entire modern day life style makes it easier and cheaper in the short run to buy quick, easy, unhealthy food. People are like water, they follow the path of least resistance unless they consciously decide "No, I'm not going to do this!", and then it's a fight up hill.0 -
I have met very very few smokers that don't know that smoking is bad for you.
I have met very very few fat people that don't know that being fat is bad for you.
I have met many people that feel the need to share with fat people that they are disgusting and that they are unhealthy. If we're going to crusade against the fat people being unhealthy we better also pack up and start letting the smokers know that they are going to die and the *kitten* need to be informed that their sport-****** is going to lead to HIV and death as well.
It's similar to religious people telling other people that if they don't read their holy book and accept their holy dogma that they will burn in a pit of fire for all time.
To anyone who feels the pressing need to tell fat people they are unhealthy, unless you are their doctor or unless they specifically asked you for your opinion on being fat, please kindly STFU. I can pretty much guarantee you that being fat carries with it an entire package deal of ridicule and social issues and that they have probably been told by a good many non-fat people how unhealthy they are, so even the dimmest of fat people knows that being fat is probably not the best thing for them if only because people treat them like feces on a day to day basis.
Thank.You.0 -
My first response to this is that just because someone is overweight does not mean they are unhealthy, and I think this is a huge misconception in the general population. While almost no one who is overweight wants to carry around the extra pounds, the two ideas are not necessarily mutually exclusive. For example, I have worked out regularly for the last 7 years (with a brief break in the last year that lasted about 6 months). I work out hard - hard and intensely. I ran a marathon and completed it when I was a good 90 lbs overweight, and I currently do kickboxing 6 times a week in addition to my gym time and regular bike riding. My blood work and blood pressure are all perfect. I don't have high cholesterol or glucose issues. With the exception of having some aches in my knees and back from the weight, literally, my only issue is that I am extremely overweight. Do I want to be this way? No, but it seems like no matter how hard I try, I can't get more than about 30 pounds off. Do I give up - No... but believe me, it's frustrating to spend 3/4 of a decade working on something only to have minimal weight loss results. Am I strong? You betcha... and I am trying to just make my peace with the idea that maybe I will always be this way, no matter how I try... but still I try (a living, breathing definition of insanity, perhaps). :O)
Personally, I still don't see "fat acceptance" in the general population. I still see the same things happening to overweight folks that I've observed my entire life. Some things just don't change. I think it's important that everyone be treated with respect and courtesy because, as observers, we have no idea what someone else's life circumstances are. No, most of the overweight population is not doing what I am doing or have been doing, but I know there are others out there, and as many of us are taught growing up, we don't judge a book by its cover.
I will also note that for anyone who is just using any "acceptance" movement as an excuse, that is really not okay in my book, but if the individual is healthy and doing everything s/he can, just love yourself and keep doing what you're doing.0 -
Tell us what is being done that makes fat people feel like a sub-member of the species? Given that two thirds of Americans are reportedly overweight - are you suggesting that they all feel sub human?
I think unless you are truly brain dead you already know the answer to this question. I don't suspect you to be brain dead.
Negative comments slung at someone for being fat make them feel sub-human. Excessive or prolonged negative comments are most destructive.
Many of the people who "help" others by telling them that their being fatasses are unhealthy aren't done in a constructive or compassionate way. They are done cruelly and with the intent to judge or put the person in a perceived inferior position. One only needs to paruse these very forums for several examples. It is that which I am talking about, not the gentile constructive education of the ignorant fat masses that being fat is unhealthy and can give you things like diabetes, high blood pressure, heart failure, liver failure, kidney failure, excessive fatigue, etc...0 -
These are all really good comments and, for the most part, very responsible. I would say there's a big difference between "acceptance" and "hate/shaming/rudeness/making invisible". Just because I personally don't believe that fat is healthy doesn't give me an excuse to be cruel, and that seems to be the mode of behavior today, especially online. We can all choose to be civil and compassionate while holding our principals, or we can choose not to.0
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My first response to this is that just because someone is overweight does not mean they are unhealthy, and I think this is a huge misconception in the general population.
True. Retirement communities are full of 85 year old 300lb women0 -
[Many of the people who "help" others by telling them that their being fatasses are unhealthy aren't done in a constructive or compassionate way. They are done cruelly and with the intent to judge or put the person in a perceived inferior position. One only needs to paruse these very forums for several examples.
I have noone in my life that would do that. I do not know anyone who would do that. Do people do it on the internet? sure...thats sad...but people who do that in every day real life are either actually really rare or I never see it0 -
The difference with your rather daft religious anaolgy is that medical advice is based on years of scietific study and irrefutable data.
The point of that being people who feel it's their business to tell other people how to live. It doesn't matter if they have scientific study behind them or a book of fairy tales.
It's not telling people how to live, it's presenting them with facts and letting them chose how they live
People never used to be aware how damaging smoking was - they were presented with the facts and made their choices accordingly. Are you suggesting that there should never have been a campaign telling us the risks of smoking? Was it not their business to tell us?
That's cool. If a person who is fat asks you to educate them, by all means do so. If you post the dangers of being fat on a public message board or forum, that's awesome. It's being done in a constructive manner that doesn't make a person feel like a sub-member of the species.
There's a difference IMO between making public, general posts or something, or ... as happened to an overweight friend of mine ... having a stranger take food out of her grocery cart because it wasn't healthy enough.
Yeah. Seriously.
Did it make her lose weight? No. It made her go home and cry and then eat a quart of ice cream to feel better.
I would be in jail. That chick would have been injured.0 -
My first response to this is that just because someone is overweight does not mean they are unhealthy, and I think this is a huge misconception in the general population.
True. Retirement communities are full of 85 year old 300lb women
I work party time in such a community and there is not one person anywhere near 300 pounds. In fact, virtually all of them are thin and even underweight.0 -
I don't think it's an excuse to stay overweight and certainly hope it doesn't become that. But people being happy and confident is a good thing. Espcially in children and teens.
^^ THIS. I've always viewed fat acceptance as just that...ACCEPT me for who I am RIGHT NOW. If someone else wants to use that as an excuse to just stay where they are, then that's on them, and belittling or shaming them will never change that. If someone is TRULY HAPPY with who they are, then that should be accepted, even if it's not YOUR idea of being happy with who you are. You cannot control anyone else, you can only control yourself. And part of that is controlling how you treat others, no matter what you may think of their choices.0 -
The difference with your rather daft religious anaolgy is that medical advice is based on years of scietific study and irrefutable data.
The point of that being people who feel it's their business to tell other people how to live. It doesn't matter if they have scientific study behind them or a book of fairy tales.
It's not telling people how to live, it's presenting them with facts and letting them chose how they live
People never used to be aware how damaging smoking was - they were presented with the facts and made their choices accordingly. Are you suggesting that there should never have been a campaign telling us the risks of smoking? Was it not their business to tell us?
That's cool. If a person who is fat asks you to educate them, by all means do so. If you post the dangers of being fat on a public message board or forum, that's awesome. It's being done in a constructive manner that doesn't make a person feel like a sub-member of the species.
There's a difference IMO between making public, general posts or something, or ... as happened to an overweight friend of mine ... having a stranger take food out of her grocery cart because it wasn't healthy enough.
Yeah. Seriously.
Did it make her lose weight? No. It made her go home and cry and then eat a quart of ice cream to feel better.
That was mean, rude and uncalled for and I would never do something like that but why was it also an excuse to eat the quart of ice cream!!! That person did not force her to eat it, she made the choice to feel bad instead of do something about it!!
Everyone wants to blame everyone else for their problems!! Everyone should be accepted for who they are however just like the pro-ana movement is unhealthy this one is too!!
Michelle Pfeiffer as LouAnne said in Dangerous Minds "Everyone has a choice, It may not be the choice that you like but you do have a choice"!!!0 -
Tell us what is being done that makes fat people feel like a sub-member of the species? Given that two thirds of Americans are reportedly overweight - are you suggesting that they all feel sub human?
I think unless you are truly brain dead you already know the answer to this question. I don't suspect you to be brain dead.
Negative comments slung at someone for being fat make them feel sub-human. Excessive or prolonged negative comments are most destructive.
Specifically we were discussing the education of the masses by groups and governments as to the dangers of being overweight and I was asking what these in particular are doing that makes overweight people feel sub-human, and at the risk of appearing brain dead, I genuinely don't know the answer to that. It seems that governments and health organisations are doing the right thing in presenting the facts and risks and advice regarding overeating/healthy eating without making anyone feel sub human - or am I wrong in thinking this?0 -
My first response to this is that just because someone is overweight does not mean they are unhealthy, and I think this is a huge misconception in the general population.
True. Retirement communities are full of 85 year old 300lb women
I work party time in such a community and there is not one person anywhere near 300 pounds. In fact, virtually all of them are thin and even underweight.
Exactly!0 -
First of all, I say this with all due respect. Being overweight is a choice. I mean, sure there may be medical factors that contribute to one's obesity, but just to say "I can't exercise, so I'm going to continue eating unhealthy foods" is pre-meditated.
It bothers me when I read these stories of how medical personnel have to tear down a wall to get a 700 pound person out. The person says they WOULD lose weight, but they need help in order to do it. The BIGGEST problem I have with that is, on one hand you say you're being held prisoner by your weight. On the other, SOMEONE is bringing you food. And this is why say it's a matter of choice. Can one not make better choices for the food?
I would MUCH rather eat my Red Velvet Ice Cream DAILY rather than fruit. But I know I'll pay for it later. So I CHOOSE to limit myself. I CHOOSE to make better decisions regarding food. I CHOOSE to take my lunch everyday rather than buy food, which is cheaper AND I already know it's going to be in alignment with my weight loss plan.0
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