Opinions needed on muscle building while lowering body fat

burn the fat feed the muscle gives good basic info on all of this.
from what I've read its something that has to be very slowly. and there is only so much cardio you can do its not simply eating less and doing yet more cardio.
it might take a year unfortunately we all want to lose 1 kg a week!
Intermittent fasting works well for some people too (I find the six small meals a day theory can leave you feeling constantly deprived as you never get to have a full meal).
you have to look at different options and find something that works well for you.
I think you can definitely over thing all these macros and calorie counting it can drive you nuts. Good to get in tune with your body and what you feel you need more.

The single most important factor affecting whether an athlete will gain muscle mass is energy consumption
(that’s right, not protein consumption). If carbohydrate and energy intakes are too low, lean mass will not
increase. Building muscle tissue costs energy, and requires additional amounts of minerals and other
micronutrients. Further research is needed to determine exactly which and how much of each of the
nutrients is needed.
Practical tips for gaining muscle mass
• Incorporate resistance exercises into the training program – resistance exercise will stimulate muscle
growth and development
• Set realistic weight and strength goals. If an athlete increases their body mass by 2-4 kg in a month,
then they are doing very well.
• Aim for the athlete to have an energy surplus of 500-1000kcal per day. The extra food needs to
supply carbohydrates for training energy and protein and micronutrients for muscle growth and
development.
• Smaller, more frequent meals will allow the athlete to take in extra energy without feeling bloated.
• It can be helpful to incorporate some simple carbohydrates as well as complex, bulky carbohydrates.
This means the athlete can still meet their energy needs without excessive bloating.
• It may be necessary to decrease fibre intake and to use white cereal products such as white rice.
Whilst this may not be advisable in the long term, it can be effective for short term goals.
• High energy, low bulk liquid foods may be useful for provision of a nutritious energy without bulk.
Examples include fruit smoothies and commercial liquid meal supplements.
• Get the athlete to keep a food diary of everything they eat. This allows them to identify how to
improve their eating, and to determine whether they are missing out on eating opportunities.

This is taken from one of my lessons (I am training to be a sports nutritionist) Does this help at all? I haven't read all the other rpelies, sorry, I am at work

The single most important factor affecting whether an athlete will gain muscle mass is energy consumption
(that’s right, not protein consumption). If carbohydrate and energy intakes are too low, lean mass will not
increase. Building muscle tissue costs energy, and requires additional amounts of minerals and other
micronutrients. Further research is needed to determine exactly which and how much of each of the
nutrients is needed.
Practical tips for gaining muscle mass
• Incorporate resistance exercises into the training program – resistance exercise will stimulate muscle
growth and development
• Set realistic weight and strength goals. If an athlete increases their body mass by 2-4 kg in a month,
then they are doing very well.
• Aim for the athlete to have an energy surplus of 500-1000kcal per day. The extra food needs to
supply carbohydrates for training energy and protein and micronutrients for muscle growth and
development.
• Smaller, more frequent meals will allow the athlete to take in extra energy without feeling bloated.
• It can be helpful to incorporate some simple carbohydrates as well as complex, bulky carbohydrates.
This means the athlete can still meet their energy needs without excessive bloating.
• It may be necessary to decrease fibre intake and to use white cereal products such as white rice.
Whilst this may not be advisable in the long term, it can be effective for short term goals.
• High energy, low bulk liquid foods may be useful for provision of a nutritious energy without bulk.
Examples include fruit smoothies and commercial liquid meal supplements.
• Get the athlete to keep a food diary of everything they eat. This allows them to identify how to
improve their eating, and to determine whether they are missing out on eating opportunities.

This is taken from one of my lessons (I am training to be a sports nutritionist) Does this help at all? I haven't read all the other rpelies, sorry, I am at work

I agree with most with one exception.............while carbs are needed to increase energy, inadequate protein consumption will deter muscle building. Muscle can't be built from carbs and fats.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

The single most important factor affecting whether an athlete will gain muscle mass is energy consumption
(that’s right, not protein consumption). If carbohydrate and energy intakes are too low, lean mass will not
increase. Building muscle tissue costs energy, and requires additional amounts of minerals and other
micronutrients. Further research is needed to determine exactly which and how much of each of the
nutrients is needed.
Practical tips for gaining muscle mass
• Incorporate resistance exercises into the training program – resistance exercise will stimulate muscle
growth and development
• Set realistic weight and strength goals. If an athlete increases their body mass by 2-4 kg in a month,
then they are doing very well.
• Aim for the athlete to have an energy surplus of 500-1000kcal per day. The extra food needs to
supply carbohydrates for training energy and protein and micronutrients for muscle growth and
development.
• Smaller, more frequent meals will allow the athlete to take in extra energy without feeling bloated.
• It can be helpful to incorporate some simple carbohydrates as well as complex, bulky carbohydrates.
This means the athlete can still meet their energy needs without excessive bloating.
• It may be necessary to decrease fibre intake and to use white cereal products such as white rice.
Whilst this may not be advisable in the long term, it can be effective for short term goals.
• High energy, low bulk liquid foods may be useful for provision of a nutritious energy without bulk.
Examples include fruit smoothies and commercial liquid meal supplements.
• Get the athlete to keep a food diary of everything they eat. This allows them to identify how to
improve their eating, and to determine whether they are missing out on eating opportunities.

This is taken from one of my lessons (I am training to be a sports nutritionist) Does this help at all? I haven't read all the other rpelies, sorry, I am at work

I agree with most with one exception.............while carbs are needed to increase energy, inadequate protein consumption will deter muscle building. Muscle can't be built from carbs and fats.

I need you to explain that in my examIner then please as this came from my assignment read up and I have to answer this question as one of my assignments. lol. I completely agree with you and believe that protein is very important, I also believe the creatin is essential but that was questioned too when I submitted my last report!! :-0

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

My husband and i do DEXA scans to track our progress. Between 8/11 and 3/12, he lost 36.5 pounds. At the same time, he increased his lean mass from 147.1 to 152.1 pounds. His fat mass changed from 99.1 pounds to 58.9 pounds.

So yes, it can be done. But it's hard work.

Untrained beginners are the exception, and your husband's progress is typical (small gain in LBM in the face of a much larger fat loss). Also keep in mind that "lean mass" refers to more than just muscle (water, bone density, stomach contents, etc.).

Okay...anyone else feel im eating to low of cals? 1500 to low?

Unless you're a woman that's 5'3" and trying to lose weight then I would say yes. I'm 6' 2" and doing 2200 - 2500 a day and losing quite easily. I've made some strength gains since I got more serious about using the gym (Shoulder injury last year) but I wouldn't say that I'm adding muscle. Hopefully just keeping what I have while I trim down the body fat. That's a good enough goal I think for now. I'll work on adding some muscle later. I'm actually going to switch to maintenance when I get to 220 and just see how that plays out for a few months.

As someone else noted ignore the BMI score. Mine is around 29 at the moment.

My husband and i do DEXA scans to track our progress. Between 8/11 and 3/12, he lost 36.5 pounds. At the same time, he increased his lean mass from 147.1 to 152.1 pounds. His fat mass changed from 99.1 pounds to 58.9 pounds.

So yes, it can be done. But it's hard work.

Untrained beginners are the exception, and your husband's progress is typical (small gain in LBM in the face of a much larger fat loss). Also keep in mind that "lean mass" refers to more than just muscle (water, bone density, stomach contents, etc.).

Given that he'd already been working out for 2 years and had lost 60 pounds previous to when we started doing DEXA to track, your logic is flawed.

Yes, lean mass includes more than muscle. Have you ever seen a DEXA report? It shows each of the changes. He lost almost 3% bone mass in this time frame, so that wasn't it.

And yes, 5lbs may not seem like much to a dedicated lifter that wants to gain to compete in a higher class. But for my sedentary, desk bound husband, it's huge. And i don't recall the question being "can i put on a ton of muscle while also losing fat" but "is it possible to build muscle while also losing fat".

So the answer, in our limited study of my husband and myself, is yes. Using the best scientific tools to track, not a pair of calipers and a measuring tape.

How accurate do you really think DEXA is? You may be surprised.

http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=260

The changes you're reporting fall well within the margin of error for this method.

That surpised me at least. I have been 'touting' how accurate a DEXA scan was and it seems like a much cheaper hydrostatic test may be as good, if not better. I also wondered about the water weight (i.e. where that was in the report) but is seems from this article that it may be included in the LBM and that, indirectly, can impact the BF% calculation. Which is a little annoying if it is as the clinic I went to have one done made no comment about hydration requirements/levels before going in.

It was good to know that I had good bone density though:happy:

Gaining muscle = calorie surplus

Losing fat = calorie deficit

Doing both at the same time = impossible unless genetic freak or new to training as the body adjusts.

Let the bro science begin.

Would you like to add anything that actually supports or refutes the statement?

How accurate do you really think DEXA is? You may be surprised.

http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=260

The changes you're reporting fall well within the margin of error for this method.

Heh. I research everything. I've seen the article you link, as well as many others. No, the accuracy reports don't surprise me - DEXA is *still* much more accurate than calipers, which is what 95% of the folks i talk to use to quantify their bodyfat. We use the same machine each time, and we both hydrate well, so the chances of error based on those two factors is low.

I realize i'm not going to change anyone's hard and fast opinion, but i doubt that my husband and i fall outside the norm, and we have both managed to increase muscle mass while simultaneously losing fat mass. No, we do not claim to have gained 40 pounds of muscle while dropping 80 pounds of fat. We're happy with small but steady gains.

Yes im a dude lol... 5 ft 11...right now 180.5...goal set at 170 but i think i need to go lower maybe 160 ish or lower...Right now my bmi is 25.2 and low end of my target bmi is 139 and high end 179. I still have body fat to loose without a doubt.

My bmr is 1850 cals it says....and maintance is 2450....My goal is set to 2lbs a week loss and it has me at 1490 cals a day and some days i go over it some i dont depends on how hungry i am.

Im unsure of my body fat % currently but i intend to buy a new scale this weekend (weight watchers) that does body fat, and weight. Personally i could careless if i didnt loose more weight but i want to loose the body fat...IE man boobs and stomach

Cardio wise i walk and stationary bike...i use the mfp calorie count for how many ive burnt so i know its always high so i dont eat back all the cals to stay on track

are you sure about your weight goals???? I am a 5'11" female and weigh 178, Im trying to get to the 160's...i think that would be awfully low for a guy who want to be ripped.

I agree... I'm 6', and my goal weight is 180 at the lowest... you shouldn't want to be much lower than 175, I would think. Also, I've never heard that it's possible to build muscle and lose fat at the same time. Even the pros go through building phases where they bulk up, and then cutting phases, where they try to maintain their current muscle mass while dropping fat. But doing both at once doesn't really work.

I'm 6' 0" and weigh around 165 with 12.5%BF. I'd still like to lose another 5 pounds. For me, 180 is the "crap, I'm really starting to lose it" point. I feel that his goal is completely reasonable. Let the man get to where he wants to be as far as weight and looks are concerned. Our own physical composition determines what we will look like at any given weight so "I'm this, so you will be too" doesn't work.

Get your body fat%, and use that to find your lean body mass. Lean Body Mass = Body Weight – (Body Weight x Body Fat %)

Then, use the following chart to determine where you want to get to and then you just need to figure out how many pounds it will take to get from your current % to your ideal %.

Men
Essential Fat 2-5%
Athletes 6-13%
Fitness 14-17%
Average 18-24%
Obese 25%+

Gaining muscle = calorie surplus

Losing fat = calorie deficit

Doing both at the same time = impossible unless genetic freak or new to training as the body adjusts.

Let the bro science begin.

TBH I'd rather listen to the likes of Layne Norton to some internet random who makes a single post and doesn't back anything up? I'll happily discuss it with you but flames like that with no info from yourself hardly makes for an informative debate!

MP: You have often said that it is not impossible but very counterproductive to build muscle and burn fat at the same time. How do you suggest to our begin ners for how to get a totally conditioned physique such as yourself.

LN: Well I think certain people can build muscle and burn fat at the same time and they general fall into 3 groups: 1) beginners 2) very obese people and 3) those using steroids or illicit lipolytics or a combination of any 3 of those. But if a person has been training hard for a few years and is very good with their nutrition and aren’t 35% bodyfat, they aren’t going to burn fat and build muscle at the same time most likely. It would be EXTREMELY unlikely to happen.

Gaining muscle = calorie surplus

Losing fat = calorie deficit

Doing both at the same time = impossible unless genetic freak or new to training as the body adjusts.

Let the bro science begin.

THANK YOU!

to matt I have a question. if u want to lose weight should u do lots of cardio first then use weights later when u lose the weight so u don't bulk up and become lean inside of thick

I lost 9 pounds and Bern doing mostly cardio but started doing insanity on my 5th video since last week....

Gaining muscle = calorie surplus

Losing fat = calorie deficit

Doing both at the same time = impossible unless genetic freak or new to training as the body adjusts.

Let the bro science begin.

THANK YOU!

Please explain further how I am making up bro science. Please. We are waiting